Building a Rokugan Spellcaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Rokugan Spellcaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
IceFractal
06-26-05, 01:39 AM I'm making a character for a Rokugan/OA game, and I'm wondering exactly where to go with it. Here's the parameters:

Starting Level: 3rd
Wealth: Standard, AFAIK
Allowed: Mostly OA stuff, could use outside stuff but it has to fit the Rokugan theme, so no Paladins, Wizards, or the like.

Stats: 14, 17, 17, 13, 12, 14 :D Can be put in any order.

Goal: Pure spellcaster type. I've been playing melee heavy-hitters for the last couple games (pretty effective ones, if I say so myself), and really want to do something different. For this reason, I'm trying to make a pure spellcaster rather than a self-buffing melee-er or semi-caster.

And here's my thoughts on the build so far:

Race: Probably Vanarra, I'm not fixated, but they seem like fun to play, good stat-wise, and they've got a climb speed, which I like. A winner all around.

Class: I've been considering various ones -
Shaman - Some nice abilities and fairly good casting, but not a very interesting spell selection - they don't get many of the new spells like Iron Scarf or Smoke Ladder and they seem to fit more in a self-buffing or support role.
Shugenja - A bit better spell selection than the Shaman, but they still don't get that great of one, and they suffer the same slow progression as the Sorcerer.
Sorcerer - Good spell selection, but slow progression and very limited spells known.
Wu-Jen - This seems like the best bet so far. They get all the most interesting spells and even the taboos seem interesting. The only problems are that they're rather fragile, and that I haven't played a preparation-based spellcaster in a while, so it might be tricky planning what to prepare.

On the Maho-Tsukai: While I'd be fine with playing one, it might not fit too well with the rest of the party, what with the tainted-ness and all.

Clan: Probably Phoenix, but not fixed.

Help would be appreciated on how to go about this, as I haven't played OA before, and haven't played a spellcaster in a while. If a preparation-based caster is my best bet, some ideas on which spells to prepare for general use would be good.
Iaimeki
06-26-05, 02:46 PM Is this using 3.5 rules? If so, shaman is certainly the most powerful OA caster: they get turning (to power Divine Metamagic), Cha to saves, bonus feats, extra unarmed damage, awesome combat spells from the Hero domain (like divine power), polymorph, decent skills . . . there's no comparison. If you're not interested in playing a shaman, I'd go either wu jen or sorcerer. The wu jen's weakness is that their spell list is so small, while the sorcerer has all the traditional disadvantages.

This advice is based on WotC material. I don't know if Rokugan includes stuff that alters the balance of spellcasters.
IceFractal
06-26-05, 05:28 PM Didn't know about the Cha to saves feature, is that new in 3.5? The only thing I'm not sure about is the fact their spell combat capability seems to be basically self-buffing, and I'm looking for a more direct-effect type. If they do have those, sign me up.

I haven't checked in detail, but don't Wu Jens have the normal Sor/Wiz spells in addition to the new OA ones?
Iaimeki
06-26-05, 06:42 PM Didn't know about the Cha to saves feature, is that new in 3.5? The only thing I'm not sure about is the fact their spell combat capability seems to be basically self-buffing, and I'm looking for a more direct-effect type. If they do have those, sign me up.

I haven't checked in detail, but don't Wu Jens have the normal Sor/Wiz spells in addition to the new OA ones?

Dragon 318 had an update to the OA rules, written by James Wyatt, original author of OA. However, AFAIK, shamans have always gotten Cha to saves.

Are you thinking fireball? Direct damage is a terrible idea for a caster: it's good for taking out groups and nothing else. If you want to do damage, you need to do it divine-caster style (buff up and wade in). For indirect combat ability, the arcane lists tend to be better: play battlefield control spells that hamper your enemies' movement and attacks, summon to distract and aid allies, and use disablers/weakening spells to soften your enemies up, either for your allies or for a finisher from you. Off the top of my head, I don't recall how efficient the wu jen is at the arcane caster's combat role.

Wu jens have their own spell list, so RAW, no, they don't get sor/wiz spells that aren't on their spell list.
Rokku
06-26-05, 09:29 PM If you're using the Rokugan setting without alterations, and using the L5R d20 books, then your only option for a core class is the Shugenja -- but you have a lot more options for you from there. I'm a big fan of either Air or Earth focus -- leaves with with access to water for healing and fire for blowing things up. And if you're using the d20 L5R books check out Magic of Rokugan. Lots of great new spells, prestige classes (the Jade Magistrate is simply droolworthy) and magic items. Way of the Shugenja is quality too, and you may want to look into getting the "Secrets Of" book for your clan of choice. For pure spellcasting power, I recommend the Phoenix (Isawa Family) -- it's what they do.
IceFractal
06-26-05, 10:12 PM I haven't seen this Magic of Rokugan book, I'll try to find it. I recently did notice something though - while the DM is allowing all the OA classes, there normally aren't Wu Jens in Rokugan, so finding spellbooks to scribe new spells from might be nigh impossible. So it looks like either Shaman or Shugenja is my best bet.

Shaman:
+ Lots of nifty class abilities
+ Turning for Divine Metamagic
+ Can access pretty much any Cleric spell, barring deity specific ones.
- Pretty much limited to support or self-buffing
- Doesn't have access to many of the Rokugan specific spells.

Shugenja:
+ Better spell selection
+ Has more Rokugan specific options
- Slow spell progression
- Small number of spells known

Is the Jade Magistrate only for Shugenja, or can Shamans enter it? And what's the earliest it can be accessed? And are there any good direct-effect spells for Clerics/Shamans? Also, if anyone has experience with the Shugenja/Shaman, which do you think is more effective?
Nazzareth
06-27-05, 02:41 AM Try a ratling

sorcerer 10 / ratling shaman 10 or a ratling arcane trickster are fun characters to play.
Rokku
06-27-05, 03:30 AM Jade Magistrate can be qualified for by any divine caster, if they have the prerequisite feats. Which I think are Void Use (found in the Rokugan book) and Combat Casting... there may be another.

And definitely try and get a copy of Magic of Rokugan, I can't recommend it highly enough.

If you go with Nazzareth's suggestion and make a Ratling Sorcerer, one of the Ratling tribes (the tattered ear I believe) found in Rokugan gets +2 Charisma, and I think also has Favored Class: Any, in case you want to multiclass. My Rokugan books are currently out on loan, so I can't verify it.
MikeN
06-27-05, 04:18 AM See if you can look up Thunder domain from Dragon (forget which issue). It's only decent because it gives Lightning Bolt as a divine spell. Then you make a Shaman12/Hexer8. Hexer from MotW and hasn't been updated to 3.5 so should be all good.

Domains: Hero, Thunder, Travel. Domain Spontaneity: Hero and/or Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IceFractal 06-26-05, 01:39 AM	I'm making a character for a Rokugan/OA game, and I'm wondering exactly where to go with it. Here's the parameters: Starting Level: 3rd Wealth: Standard, AFAIK Allowed: Mostly OA stuff, could use outside stuff but it has to fit the Rokugan theme, so no Paladins, Wizards, or the like. Stats: 14, 17, 17, 13, 12, 14 :D Can be put in any order. Goal: Pure spellcaster type. I've been playing melee heavy-hitters for the last couple games (pretty effective ones, if I say so myself), and really want to do something different. For this reason, I'm trying to make a pure spellcaster rather than a self-buffing melee-er or semi-caster. And here's my thoughts on the build so far: Race: Probably Vanarra, I'm not fixated, but they seem like fun to play, good stat-wise, and they've got a climb speed, which I like. A winner all around. Class: I've been considering various ones - Shaman - Some nice abilities and fairly good casting, but not a very interesting spell selection - they don't get many of the new spells like Iron Scarf or Smoke Ladder and they seem to fit more in a self-buffing or support role. Shugenja - A bit better spell selection than the Shaman, but they still don't get that great of one, and they suffer the same slow progression as the Sorcerer. Sorcerer - Good spell selection, but slow progression and very limited spells known. Wu-Jen - This seems like the best bet so far. They get all the most interesting spells and even the taboos seem interesting. The only problems are that they're rather fragile, and that I haven't played a preparation-based spellcaster in a while, so it might be tricky planning what to prepare. On the Maho-Tsukai: While I'd be fine with playing one, it might not fit too well with the rest of the party, what with the tainted-ness and all. Clan: Probably Phoenix, but not fixed. Help would be appreciated on how to go about this, as I haven't played OA before, and haven't played a spellcaster in a while. If a preparation-based caster is my best bet, some ideas on which spells to prepare for general use would be good.
Iaimeki 06-26-05, 02:46 PM	Is this using 3.5 rules? If so, shaman is certainly the most powerful OA caster: they get turning (to power Divine Metamagic), Cha to saves, bonus feats, extra unarmed damage, awesome combat spells from the Hero domain (like divine power), polymorph, decent skills . . . there's no comparison. If you're not interested in playing a shaman, I'd go either wu jen or sorcerer. The wu jen's weakness is that their spell list is so small, while the sorcerer has all the traditional disadvantages. This advice is based on WotC material. I don't know if Rokugan includes stuff that alters the balance of spellcasters.
IceFractal 06-26-05, 05:28 PM	Didn't know about the Cha to saves feature, is that new in 3.5? The only thing I'm not sure about is the fact their spell combat capability seems to be basically self-buffing, and I'm looking for a more direct-effect type. If they do have those, sign me up. I haven't checked in detail, but don't Wu Jens have the normal Sor/Wiz spells in addition to the new OA ones?
Iaimeki 06-26-05, 06:42 PM	Didn't know about the Cha to saves feature, is that new in 3.5? The only thing I'm not sure about is the fact their spell combat capability seems to be basically self-buffing, and I'm looking for a more direct-effect type. If they do have those, sign me up. I haven't checked in detail, but don't Wu Jens have the normal Sor/Wiz spells in addition to the new OA ones? Dragon 318 had an update to the OA rules, written by James Wyatt, original author of OA. However, AFAIK, shamans have always gotten Cha to saves. Are you thinking fireball? Direct damage is a terrible idea for a caster: it's good for taking out groups and nothing else. If you want to do damage, you need to do it divine-caster style (buff up and wade in). For indirect combat ability, the arcane lists tend to be better: play battlefield control spells that hamper your enemies' movement and attacks, summon to distract and aid allies, and use disablers/weakening spells to soften your enemies up, either for your allies or for a finisher from you. Off the top of my head, I don't recall how efficient the wu jen is at the arcane caster's combat role. Wu jens have their own spell list, so RAW, no, they don't get sor/wiz spells that aren't on their spell list.
Rokku 06-26-05, 09:29 PM	If you're using the Rokugan setting without alterations, and using the L5R d20 books, then your only option for a core class is the Shugenja -- but you have a lot more options for you from there. I'm a big fan of either Air or Earth focus -- leaves with with access to water for healing and fire for blowing things up. And if you're using the d20 L5R books check out Magic of Rokugan. Lots of great new spells, prestige classes (the Jade Magistrate is simply droolworthy) and magic items. Way of the Shugenja is quality too, and you may want to look into getting the "Secrets Of" book for your clan of choice. For pure spellcasting power, I recommend the Phoenix (Isawa Family) -- it's what they do.
IceFractal 06-26-05, 10:12 PM	I haven't seen this Magic of Rokugan book, I'll try to find it. I recently did notice something though - while the DM is allowing all the OA classes, there normally aren't Wu Jens in Rokugan, so finding spellbooks to scribe new spells from might be nigh impossible. So it looks like either Shaman or Shugenja is my best bet. Shaman: + Lots of nifty class abilities + Turning for Divine Metamagic + Can access pretty much any Cleric spell, barring deity specific ones. - Pretty much limited to support or self-buffing - Doesn't have access to many of the Rokugan specific spells. Shugenja: + Better spell selection + Has more Rokugan specific options - Slow spell progression - Small number of spells known Is the Jade Magistrate only for Shugenja, or can Shamans enter it? And what's the earliest it can be accessed? And are there any good direct-effect spells for Clerics/Shamans? Also, if anyone has experience with the Shugenja/Shaman, which do you think is more effective?
Nazzareth 06-27-05, 02:41 AM	Try a ratling sorcerer 10 / ratling shaman 10 or a ratling arcane trickster are fun characters to play.
Rokku 06-27-05, 03:30 AM	Jade Magistrate can be qualified for by any divine caster, if they have the prerequisite feats. Which I think are Void Use (found in the Rokugan book) and Combat Casting... there may be another. And definitely try and get a copy of Magic of Rokugan, I can't recommend it highly enough. If you go with Nazzareth's suggestion and make a Ratling Sorcerer, one of the Ratling tribes (the tattered ear I believe) found in Rokugan gets +2 Charisma, and I think also has Favored Class: Any, in case you want to multiclass. My Rokugan books are currently out on loan, so I can't verify it.
MikeN 06-27-05, 04:18 AM	See if you can look up Thunder domain from Dragon (forget which issue). It's only decent because it gives Lightning Bolt as a divine spell. Then you make a Shaman12/Hexer8. Hexer from MotW and hasn't been updated to 3.5 so should be all good. Domains: Hero, Thunder, Travel. Domain Spontaneity: Hero and/or Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell.