Building a Saint [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Saint [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
psykofreq
12-03-06, 10:36 PM What I have to work with:
Books: PHB, DMG, Book of Exalted Deeds, Complete Divine
Levels: 15
Stats: 25 point buy, all stats starting at 10. 1 point for 11-14, 2 points for 15-16, 3 points for 17-18 (normal pointbuy)
Other: I can play any race, or apply any template that has no higher than a +2 modifier. I also may take the leadership feat simply for the cohort.

What I am trying to make:
A cleric that uses a majority of the Vows in Exalted Deeds with the Saint template added to him.

What I would like from you forum goers:
Comments on what I have suggested below as well as any suggestions you may have on what I could do better.

Name: Father Mass
Race: Human Saint
Type: LG Outsider (native)
Class(es): Cleric 7 / Apostle of Peace 8
Deity: Unaligned, but follows a strict personal code.
Domains:
Protection (PHB)
Community (BoED)

Stats: (before template/Vow of Poverty)
Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 18 Cha 16
Stats: (after template[+2 con, +4 cha, +2 wis], vow of poverty[+6 wis, +4 cha, +2 con], lvl 4 and 8 stat increase [+2 wis])
Str 10 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 28 Cha 24

AC: 28 (10 + 3 [natural {+2 from Vow of Peace, +1 from Vow of Poverty}] + 4 [deflection {+2 from Vow of Peace, +1 from Vow of Poverty}] + 11 [exalted {+2 from Vow of Peace, +2 from Vow of Poverty}]*

*Vow of Peace specifically says that the bonuses stack*

[B]HP: 7d8 [cleric levels] + 8d4 [Apostle of Peace levels] + 30 [Con modifier X 15)

Feats:
Human: Sacred Vow
1st: Vow of Poverty [Exalted] (BoED)
3rd: Augment Healing [General] (CD)
6th: Leadership [General] (DMG)
9th: Sacred Healing [Divine] (CD)
12th: Divine Spell Power [Divine] (CD)
15th: Iron Will [General] (PHB) {this one is just kinda... here}
Vow of Poverty lvl 1: Vow of Nonviolence [Exalted] (BoED)
Vow of Poverty lvl 2: Vow of Peace [Exalted] (BoED)
Vow of Poverty lvl 4: Vow of Purity [Exalted] (BoED)
Vow of Poverty lvl 6: Nimbus of Light [Exalted] (BoED)
Vow of Poverty lvl 8: Holy Radiance [Exalted] (BoED)
Vow of Poverty lvl 10: Stigmata [Exalted] (BoED)
Vow of Poverty lvl 12: Vow of Obediance [Exalted] (BoED)
Vow of Poverty lvl 14: Vow of Chastity [Exalted] (BoED)

Equipment:
Quarterstaff
Simple Clothing
Spell Component Pouch

Special Abilities/Qualities:
Cleric: Turn Undead
Apostle of Peace: Pacifying Touch
Aposte of Peace: Censure Fiends
Saint: Holy Power
Saint: Holy Touch
Saint: Spell Like abilities: at will: guidance, resistance, virtue, bless
Saint: Fast Healing
Saint: Immunities: Acid, Electricity, Cold, Petrification
Saint: Tongues
Saint: Protection Aura
Vow of Peace: Calming Aura
Saint: Low-Light Vision
Saint: Darkvision 60ft
Domain: (Protection) Protective Ward
Domain: (Community) Calm Emotions 1/day

Languages:
Common
Celestial
All (Tongues)

Skills:
18 Ranks - Concentration
18 Ranks - Diplomacy
18 Ranks - Heal
18 Ranks - Knowledge (Religion)
16 Ranks - Knowledge (Planes)
88 Ranks Total (4 [human starting bonus] + 14 [Human lvl bonus] + 12 [1st lvl of clr {(2+1)x4}] + 18 [six levels of cleric @ 3 points per level {2+1}] + 40 [eight levels of apostle of peace @ 5 points per level {4+1}]

Saving Throws:
Fort: +15 (+11 [Base] +2 [Ability] + 2 [Exalted])
Ref: +10 (+8 [Base] +2 [Exalted])
Will: +21 (+21 [Base] +8 [Ability] + 2 [Exalted])

------

Thats about it :)
Kolsus_Hayl
12-03-06, 11:14 PM Sounds like a hoot.
I have a couple suggestion.
There are two exalted feats you should really take. Intuitive Strike allows you to use Wis instead of Str on all melee attack rolls (not a bad stat for you). When it comes to melee, I suggest you take a club instead of a quarterstaff. The damage difference is negligible as the club can be wielded two-handed, and you can call it a 'stout cane' and use that club's stats. The club also has a range increment of 10 ft. Another exalted feat you should get is Nymph's Kiss. +1 against all spells and spell-like abilities, +1 skill point per level, and +2 on all Cha-related checks. You can easily acquire both of these with your many bonus exalted feats.
It's also really easy to blow out your diplomacy skill with this character. Especially with the bonus and extra skills from Nymph's Kiss. Take five ranks in Sense Motive and Knowledge(Nobility/Royalty) cause synergy bonuses stack (see FAQ). Diplomacy can be immensely powerful (PHB), and these changes would give Father Mass a +31 Diplomacy roll, +33 vs. good (Sacred Vow). +21 on a roll made as a full-round action instead of a full minute, and that's without any buffs at all. This stops most hostiles who can understand you (Tongues!) as long as they are not attacked further, and being an Apostle of Peace, that's a great thing.
psykofreq
12-04-06, 08:27 AM I actually had Intuitive Strike on his original buildout, but ended up going with a divine feat instead for flavor. I do really like the idea of a huge +hit from his wisdom though.

To maximize Nymph's Kiss, I could simply move Vow of Puirty to Vow of Chastity's spot and put Nymphs kiss there, which would give me quite a bit of extra skill points.

Now, one more question, for nymph's kiss, it says I have had an intimate relationship with a good creature, could this be my cohort? If so, any suggestions for what race my cohort is, and any class levels (if any) it would have?
bungo_underhill
12-04-06, 08:56 AM Well if you can handle giving up 4th level cleric spells swapping one level for monk would allow you to add you wisdom mod to AC a second time - with a WIS of 28 thats not bad.
Kolsus_Hayl
12-04-06, 02:20 PM First, because of nimbus of light and sacred vow, the diplomacy check based on my proposed construction would be +33, +35 vs. good. +23 as a full-round action. oops.
Also, I suggest you relax a little with your stat min/maxing. Give yourself a 20 dex. Your spellcasting will still be brutal, and it will come in handy. Especially cause right now your reflex save is a major weak point.
Ikeren
12-04-06, 04:34 PM Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 18 Cha 16

Straight up, with such high boosts to wis and cha in your build, doing something like:

Str 10, dex 12 (2), Con 14 (4), int 13 (3), Wis 16 (8), Cha 16 (8), is far more beneficial to the build = consider 30 more hit points, another point of AC and reflex save. The trade off is 2 points of wisdom.
carnivore
12-04-06, 04:52 PM for power with some of the Exalted Vows....dont take the VOP with Cleric.....thier holy symbol is not listed as an item they can keep...so you lose the ability to cast any spells requiring a Focus, also you lose the ability to Turn Undead(it also requires a Holy symbol)....unless you can get your DM to House rule it...

without the VOP....try this:

Monk 1/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 5/ Sacred Exorcist 6 ...then add the Saint Template....it applies to the next 2 levels to get rid of the LA

if your DM wont allow the Saint as it should be...and makes you take the LA at the same time...then

Monk 1/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 5/ Sacred Exorcist 4/ Saint 2
works great..

:D
Kolsus_Hayl
12-04-06, 05:14 PM for power with some of the Exalted Vows....dont take the VOP with Cleric.....thier holy symbol is not listed as an item they can keep...so you lose the ability to cast any spells requiring a Focus, also you lose the ability to Turn Undead(it also requires a Holy symbol)....unless you can get your DM to House rule it...

:D

My DM has house ruled. The FAQ says that a 'strict' reading would rule out a divine focus, however there's nothing in the rules that says a DF can't be a rudely carved medallion with no value to anyone but the caster. From a historical perspective, I think Vow of Poverty takers should not have access to DF because those who traditionally took it were attempting to do good outside the official church heirarchy. They were often called heretics.
carnivore
12-04-06, 05:21 PM great...then still go with the builds:

Monk 1/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 5/ Sacred Exorcist 4/ Saint 2

it will give a lot combined with a VOP

:D
Blade2718
12-04-06, 06:37 PM Just make sure you take Nymph's Kiss BEFORE Vow of Chastity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
psykofreq 12-03-06, 10:36 PM	What I have to work with: Books: PHB, DMG, Book of Exalted Deeds, Complete Divine Levels: 15 Stats: 25 point buy, all stats starting at 10. 1 point for 11-14, 2 points for 15-16, 3 points for 17-18 (normal pointbuy) Other: I can play any race, or apply any template that has no higher than a +2 modifier. I also may take the leadership feat simply for the cohort. What I am trying to make: A cleric that uses a majority of the Vows in Exalted Deeds with the Saint template added to him. What I would like from you forum goers: Comments on what I have suggested below as well as any suggestions you may have on what I could do better. Name: Father Mass Race: Human Saint Type: LG Outsider (native) Class(es): Cleric 7 / Apostle of Peace 8 Deity: Unaligned, but follows a strict personal code. Domains: Protection (PHB) Community (BoED) Stats: (before template/Vow of Poverty) Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 18 Cha 16 Stats: (after template[+2 con, +4 cha, +2 wis], vow of poverty[+6 wis, +4 cha, +2 con], lvl 4 and 8 stat increase [+2 wis]) Str 10 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 28 Cha 24 AC: 28 (10 + 3 [natural {+2 from Vow of Peace, +1 from Vow of Poverty}] + 4 [deflection {+2 from Vow of Peace, +1 from Vow of Poverty}] + 11 [exalted {+2 from Vow of Peace, +2 from Vow of Poverty}]* Vow of Peace specifically says that the bonuses stack [B]HP: 7d8 [cleric levels] + 8d4 [Apostle of Peace levels] + 30 [Con modifier X 15) Feats: Human: Sacred Vow 1st: Vow of Poverty [Exalted] (BoED) 3rd: Augment Healing [General] (CD) 6th: Leadership [General] (DMG) 9th: Sacred Healing [Divine] (CD) 12th: Divine Spell Power [Divine] (CD) 15th: Iron Will [General] (PHB) {this one is just kinda... here} Vow of Poverty lvl 1: Vow of Nonviolence [Exalted] (BoED) Vow of Poverty lvl 2: Vow of Peace [Exalted] (BoED) Vow of Poverty lvl 4: Vow of Purity [Exalted] (BoED) Vow of Poverty lvl 6: Nimbus of Light [Exalted] (BoED) Vow of Poverty lvl 8: Holy Radiance [Exalted] (BoED) Vow of Poverty lvl 10: Stigmata [Exalted] (BoED) Vow of Poverty lvl 12: Vow of Obediance [Exalted] (BoED) Vow of Poverty lvl 14: Vow of Chastity [Exalted] (BoED) Equipment: Quarterstaff Simple Clothing Spell Component Pouch Special Abilities/Qualities: Cleric: Turn Undead Apostle of Peace: Pacifying Touch Aposte of Peace: Censure Fiends Saint: Holy Power Saint: Holy Touch Saint: Spell Like abilities: at will: guidance, resistance, virtue, bless Saint: Fast Healing Saint: Immunities: Acid, Electricity, Cold, Petrification Saint: Tongues Saint: Protection Aura Vow of Peace: Calming Aura Saint: Low-Light Vision Saint: Darkvision 60ft Domain: (Protection) Protective Ward Domain: (Community) Calm Emotions 1/day Languages: Common Celestial All (Tongues) Skills: 18 Ranks - Concentration 18 Ranks - Diplomacy 18 Ranks - Heal 18 Ranks - Knowledge (Religion) 16 Ranks - Knowledge (Planes) 88 Ranks Total (4 [human starting bonus] + 14 [Human lvl bonus] + 12 [1st lvl of clr {(2+1)x4}] + 18 [six levels of cleric @ 3 points per level {2+1}] + 40 [eight levels of apostle of peace @ 5 points per level {4+1}] Saving Throws: Fort: +15 (+11 [Base] +2 [Ability] + 2 [Exalted]) Ref: +10 (+8 [Base] +2 [Exalted]) Will: +21 (+21 [Base] +8 [Ability] + 2 [Exalted]) ------ Thats about it :)
Kolsus_Hayl 12-03-06, 11:14 PM	Sounds like a hoot. I have a couple suggestion. There are two exalted feats you should really take. Intuitive Strike allows you to use Wis instead of Str on all melee attack rolls (not a bad stat for you). When it comes to melee, I suggest you take a club instead of a quarterstaff. The damage difference is negligible as the club can be wielded two-handed, and you can call it a 'stout cane' and use that club's stats. The club also has a range increment of 10 ft. Another exalted feat you should get is Nymph's Kiss. +1 against all spells and spell-like abilities, +1 skill point per level, and +2 on all Cha-related checks. You can easily acquire both of these with your many bonus exalted feats. It's also really easy to blow out your diplomacy skill with this character. Especially with the bonus and extra skills from Nymph's Kiss. Take five ranks in Sense Motive and Knowledge(Nobility/Royalty) cause synergy bonuses stack (see FAQ). Diplomacy can be immensely powerful (PHB), and these changes would give Father Mass a +31 Diplomacy roll, +33 vs. good (Sacred Vow). +21 on a roll made as a full-round action instead of a full minute, and that's without any buffs at all. This stops most hostiles who can understand you (Tongues!) as long as they are not attacked further, and being an Apostle of Peace, that's a great thing.
psykofreq 12-04-06, 08:27 AM	I actually had Intuitive Strike on his original buildout, but ended up going with a divine feat instead for flavor. I do really like the idea of a huge +hit from his wisdom though. To maximize Nymph's Kiss, I could simply move Vow of Puirty to Vow of Chastity's spot and put Nymphs kiss there, which would give me quite a bit of extra skill points. Now, one more question, for nymph's kiss, it says I have had an intimate relationship with a good creature, could this be my cohort? If so, any suggestions for what race my cohort is, and any class levels (if any) it would have?
bungo_underhill 12-04-06, 08:56 AM	Well if you can handle giving up 4th level cleric spells swapping one level for monk would allow you to add you wisdom mod to AC a second time - with a WIS of 28 thats not bad.
Kolsus_Hayl 12-04-06, 02:20 PM	First, because of nimbus of light and sacred vow, the diplomacy check based on my proposed construction would be +33, +35 vs. good. +23 as a full-round action. oops. Also, I suggest you relax a little with your stat min/maxing. Give yourself a 20 dex. Your spellcasting will still be brutal, and it will come in handy. Especially cause right now your reflex save is a major weak point.
Ikeren 12-04-06, 04:34 PM	Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 18 Cha 16 Straight up, with such high boosts to wis and cha in your build, doing something like: Str 10, dex 12 (2), Con 14 (4), int 13 (3), Wis 16 (8), Cha 16 (8), is far more beneficial to the build = consider 30 more hit points, another point of AC and reflex save. The trade off is 2 points of wisdom.
carnivore 12-04-06, 04:52 PM	for power with some of the Exalted Vows....dont take the VOP with Cleric.....thier holy symbol is not listed as an item they can keep...so you lose the ability to cast any spells requiring a Focus, also you lose the ability to Turn Undead(it also requires a Holy symbol)....unless you can get your DM to House rule it... without the VOP....try this: Monk 1/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 5/ Sacred Exorcist 6 ...then add the Saint Template....it applies to the next 2 levels to get rid of the LA if your DM wont allow the Saint as it should be...and makes you take the LA at the same time...then Monk 1/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 5/ Sacred Exorcist 4/ Saint 2 works great.. :D
Kolsus_Hayl 12-04-06, 05:14 PM	for power with some of the Exalted Vows....dont take the VOP with Cleric.....thier holy symbol is not listed as an item they can keep...so you lose the ability to cast any spells requiring a Focus, also you lose the ability to Turn Undead(it also requires a Holy symbol)....unless you can get your DM to House rule it... :D My DM has house ruled. The FAQ says that a 'strict' reading would rule out a divine focus, however there's nothing in the rules that says a DF can't be a rudely carved medallion with no value to anyone but the caster. From a historical perspective, I think Vow of Poverty takers should not have access to DF because those who traditionally took it were attempting to do good outside the official church heirarchy. They were often called heretics.
carnivore 12-04-06, 05:21 PM	great...then still go with the builds: Monk 1/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 5/ Sacred Exorcist 4/ Saint 2 it will give a lot combined with a VOP :D
Blade2718 12-04-06, 06:37 PM	Just make sure you take Nymph's Kiss BEFORE Vow of Chastity.