Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Wild Rover 07-12-05, 03:56 PM	before we begin, i'm well aware of teh raging debate over this combo but it's all taken care of, my dm is house-ruling it so that it is a workable combination now that that's settled, i was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers as to the most optimized feat selections and what not for this combo, i already think that soulknife13/kensai7 is pretty synergized since i don't care too much about instill and i get the 3rd mindblade enhancement from soulknife (this isn't set in stone so if you have a better idea then by all means let loose) i normally try to keep my builds pretty simple, i abide by the keep it simple stupid rule and therefore try not to take more than one or two classes aside from the base class (i don't really do the whole multiclassing into 6 different classes) i know this makes it harder to optimize but i sitll try to do what i can with what i'm given. i haven't rolled for ability scores yet so don't let those restrict you, if someone proves that a dexterous soulknife is better than a strong one then i can adjust accordingly i have decided to be human for the extra skill points and feat due to how there are two cross class skills that you need 5 ranks in to qualify for kensai any feats or build ideas are greatly appreciated, thank you!
rilem 07-12-05, 04:12 PM	Which debate? The one about the Mind Blade not being allowed for Kensai, or the one about Mind Blade enhancements not stacking with Kensais? You're missing some of the key soulknife boosters: Exotic Weapon Master1 for Uncanny Blow and WarMind5 for hustle-aided move actions to recarge the blade, as well as Sweeping Strike. And, of course, there's all the Kalashtar stuff from Races of Eberron. What books are allowed? Have you checked Todd's Souknife Guide? It's hiding now but you can find it with Google advanced search.
carnivore 07-12-05, 04:22 PM	here it is: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=372176 :D
Todd 07-12-05, 04:28 PM	If Soulknife / Kensai is allowed then I personally wouldn't take more than 5 ... or 8 at most ... levels of Soulknife. I would want 7 to 8 levels of Kensai. The Kensai weapon stuff doesn't "add" to the Mind Blade so much as replace it alltogether. If your Mind Blade is +3 with a changeable +2 enhancement then it's a +5 weapon and you don't get to add any Kensai bonuses to it until you are a 6th level or better kensai. With all that in mind what role do you want your guy to play? Skirmisher? Tank? The answer to that question will determine what you should do with the rest of the build. For instance Soulknife 5 / Fighter 1 / Exotic Weapon Master 1 / Kensai 7 / War Mind 6 is pretty good IMO and makes for an OK tank if you do your feats right. Need to know what books are OK in your game too.
McJarvis 07-12-05, 04:44 PM	here it is: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=372176 :D Wha? There are boards outside of optimization? Dude :mymy:
carnivore 07-12-05, 04:50 PM	:rofl: yes...there are other boards... here are a few i have found to be very informative: http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19 http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=520 http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20 http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30 http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=120 :D
Baneslayer 07-12-05, 04:53 PM	Yes, you really don't want too much Soulknife if you are allowed Kensai because, frankly, Kensai is just far better and not just because a Kensai can put any enchantment on his blade while the Soulknife has a very limited selection. You want to get into Kensai and Power Surge ASAP. Soulknife 5/Kensai 10 - add Monk 2 and Hexblade 3 to the mix if you want to be able to make any save and take no damage instead of half (Mettle+Evasion).
catharz 07-12-05, 05:12 PM	Kalashar would be worth it if possible for the substitution levels and feats.
The Wild Rover 07-12-05, 10:05 PM	uh, as for what books are allowed pretty much any book except for the forgotten realms ones, so no faerun, no ebberon, but between everyone at my playgroup we can find any wizards book (not counting the dragon magazine stuff) could you explain that bit about the kensai bonuses replacing the mindblade bonuses, i don't quite understand how that works out because in the description of the mindblade it says since no weapon can have more than a +5 bonus without enhancements, the mindblade would be +3 but it'd have enhancements so when i take the first level of kensai wouldn't it just add a generic +1 bonus to it for the first two levels then just add enhancements? at least that's how i read it, if you could clarify the rules a bit that'd be great as for what role i want to play i guess i've always liked the idea of a skirmisher better, but i'm good with being a tank too, please let me remind everyone that i want to try to keep it strictly soulknife/kensai, or at most one more class, i don't want alot of different classes because my dm likes more flavorful characters than broken characters what i'm mainly asking advice for is what types of soulknifes are usually more effective? twf? tank builds? and what feats are vital to any soulknife/kensai
Wizard Random 07-12-05, 11:20 PM	A intrestring combo one of my players used awhile back was a VOP Ninja 2,Soulknife 6, Kensai 7 Shadow sentital 5, He was a illuniman of course. Adding on to that, if its POSSIBLE u can use Ancestrial weapon on your mind blade, CAUSE of you REALLY think about it a mind blade in Inhearated from your forfathers, or if you wanna back this up withn game rules the Kalastar get their mind blade from their Quariy Spirt or something, and that can be used as well, youll have Enhancment from soulknife,kensai,and the Ancestrail wepaon feat, PLUS the Vow of Poverty, and if u can do it toss in the shadow sential from Race of Destiny to get some of the nifty ablities like turning ur mindblade into ANY slashing weapon say.....Greatsword, or perahps a Halberd its soo good to turn ur mind blade into any weapon to suit ur needs, and the 6 lvls of soulnkife are a MUST since eveything you get after that lvl is not needed, except MAYBE bladwind.
The Wild Rover 07-13-05, 10:48 AM	ok, nevermind about explaining how the kensai enhancements replace teh soulknife ones, i understand it now as for what role in the party i want to play, i guess i'd want to play someone similar to a monk, able to dish out the damage but not really a tank, more like a mobile damage dealer. i have one more question though, would a 10th level soulknife have a mindblade that is +2 to hit and damage and +2 worth of special abilities, or is it a total of +2 with a combination of the both, the only reason i ask this is because in the description of bladewind it says that a 9th level soulknife has a mind blade that is a +1 keen bastardsword, but if it goes by the former (having the +2 to hit and damage AND +1 special ability) shouldn't it be a +2 keen bastard sword? i asked my friend and he said that on the levels that say mindblade enhancement +_ it's just telling you that you can replace the + to hit and damage with special abilities, instead of adding them to it
Todd 07-13-05, 10:59 AM	It would be +2 hit/damage and a floating +1 enhancement = a +3 weapon. You *do not* "replace" the hit/damage with special abilities. They are completely seperate. The mind blade gains +1 to hit/damage (an enchantment bonus) at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, & 20. Completely seperately he gets a flexible enhancement bonus at levels 6, 10, 14, & 18. You *add* the two together to find the total "bonus" of the weapon value wise ... this becomes important for the Kensai stuff. A Soulknife 8 / Kensai 8 would have ... From the Soulknife a +2 to hit/damage weapon with a +1 floating enhancement on top of that ... then from the Kensai he would be able to enhance a normal weapon to +8. However since the Mind Blade already is +3 he only gets to add +5 more stuff to it. He could spend part of that +5 enhancing the + to hit/damage or he could add a fixed enhancement like Speed or Holy, or he could do a little of both.
The Wild Rover 07-14-05, 02:40 PM	well, once my weapon is up to the maximum +10 i'll have some left over levels, 5 by my count because of kensai's BAB requirement i can't take it w/ soulknife until 7th level minimum so by then i'll have a +2 weapon already so that's 8 levels of kensai for an ECL of 15, so what should i use the remaining 5 levels for? i was thinking psychic warrior to get some of those scarce feats and powers to manifest but if anyone else has a good idea then go for it (by the way i'd mix up the levels a bit, i'm not talking about going like all 7 levels of soulknife, then all 8 levels of kensai, then 5 levels of something else to finish up. actually it might end up being 3 free levels, i haven't decided if i want bladewind or not, i'll have to play for a while to see how often a situation where i can use it comes up.
rilem 07-14-05, 02:54 PM	As a Soulknife7/Kensai8, you'll have BAB+11, Saves 4/7/11. You'll need two things: BAB and a Fort. save. PsyWar gives the second, but if you take another medium-BAB class you won't make +16 for your fourth attack. Which is not the end of the world — BAB+16 is a benchmark for C/O melee builds, but since you're not getting it until level 20 anyway, who cares? Maybe you're a spring-attack type anyway. The Fort save, however, is terrible. You need to fix that. I'd probably lean towards Fighter4/EWM1 or War Mind5 — both would get you to +16 BAB and +8 Fort save. WarMind's sweeping strike is also a very nice plus. PsyWar4/EWM1 is another option.
The Wild Rover 07-15-05, 02:42 AM	well the thing about base attack bonus is i wasn't too worried about it because i was going to compensate for it by having the dual mind blades and having the speed enhancement so that gives me a few more attacks, plus a few generic bonuses to attack and damage but i can see where you're coming from for teh saves those are pretty terrible eh? i'll have to consider messing around with that a bit but aside from that any other pointers? how about feat selections for this sort of build (less heavy duty tank more mobile damage dealer, think like the same role as a monk sort of) and what abilities to focus on mostly, i was thinking con is a running theme for both of these builds but how else should i prioritize them? dex? str? int? wis? they all seem to hold alot of weight.
Todd 07-15-05, 08:21 AM	If you are dual wielding, Dex & then Str first. Finally either Int or Wis next depending on the feats you want.