Building a Wizard for the WLD (world's largest Dungeon) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Wizard for the WLD (world's largest Dungeon) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Judging Eagle
01-30-05, 01:55 AM Right now I'm with a large group of players who are making PCs for the AEG world's largest dungeoun and I've decided to play the party spell caster, but not the blaster, we already have a warlock for that.

So far the party is made up of:

-Nameless Legion Bugbear rogue/fighter (he's going to be limited to 16 class levels doe to the LA) [Main Tank, with enlarge he's pretty formidable]

-Human Warlock (used to be a halfing swashbuckler, but meh the guy prefers blasters, maybe a gish would work here) [Blaster, pretty straightforward]

-Human Paladin (going to work as a last man standing kind of guy, but I think that he'd be better off as an offense-type) [Secondary Tank/Secondary Healer]

-Human Ranger [Ranged damage dealer]

-Human Rogue (really high dex/int, the guy got 52~ skill pts at lvl 1) [Sneak Attacker/Skill monkey]

-Half-Orc Cleric [Primary Healer, Rear-guard/Tank]

-Dwarf (Some non-core base class that mixes melee with the healing of a cleric out of the complete divine I think, it might be radiant servant.. not sure) [Secondary Healer, Secondary Tank]

-Maybe a human bard, not sure yet.

-My Human Mage (non-specialist, if I have to I'll go diviner and give up necomancy, however it has many buff/debuff spells that could come in handy)

Right now I'm looking at going for a Wiz 9/Loremaster 7/Archmage 2, rest wiz or loremaster.

I don't have complete arcane but two of the other players each have a copy that I could look at.

My initial feat selection is:
-Spellcasting Prodigy (+2 int for determening bonus spells/day)
-Collegiate Wizard (6 + Int mod spells at lvl 1, 4 new spells known/lvl; as opposed to 3 + int mod and 2 new known spells /lvl)

The reason for those is that I probably will not have access to either spell research, spell books that aren't my own or spell scrolls that I don't make myself. Hence being able to add spells to my repetoire innately should help for this lvl 1 -> lvl 20 dungeon crawl.

The loremaster is to help get to Archmage slightly faster, plus the bonus 1st and 2nd lvl spells per day.

Once I reach archmage I'm going to get mastery of elements (to modify elemental weapons upon casting to any other element) then mastery of shaping (to leave (min) 5x5 holes in any aoe's that I use).

My lvl progression looks a bit like this:
Legend:
Level: Level Progressions (feats, stat increases) ; Class (and lvl) : Class benefits/increases

1:Coll. Wiz, Spell Prod. : wiz 1: Scribe, Famliar

2: - ; wiz 2:

3: 1st Metamagic Feat ; wiz 3:

4:+1 int (19 now, +4 mod); wiz 4:

5: - ;wiz 5:Wiz bonus feat (metamagic)

6: - ; Metamagic; wiz 6:7:wiz 7:

8: +1 int (20, +5 mod) ; wiz 8:

9: Skill focus (spell craft); wiz 9:

10: - ; Loremaster 1: Secret 1 (LM lvl + Int mod = 6; I can pick from +1 On attack rolls, +2 on any of the 3 saves (fort most likely), +3 hp, or 4 ranks in a skill I don't have)

11: - ; LM 2: Lore

12: +1 Int (21, +5 mod), Feat (Spell Focus (Evocation); LM 3: Secret 2 (LM 3 + 5: same as above, but also any one feat and +1 Dodge bonus to AC)

13: - ; LM 4: Bonus Language

14: - ; LM 5 Secret 3 (5 + 5: Same as above but also one bonus 2nd lvl spell/day and 1 bonus 1st lvl spell/day)

15: Feat (Spell Focus (Enchantment)); LM 6 : Greater Lore

16: +1 Int (22, +6 mod); LM 7: Secret 4 (After getting: the fort save, feat & 2nd lvl spell secrets I'm gonna get the Bonus lvl 1 spellday secret then drop out of the LM class)

17: - ; Archmage 1: Mastery of Elements (took a long time... but now old stuff like scorching bolt, fireball, lighting bolt, cone of cold, chain lighting etc. become five times are deadly since I can switch between acid/cold/fire/electricity/sonic when I begin casting, so I don't have to prepare pre-made elemental spells)

18: +1 Int (23, +6 mod) Feat: (I dunno) ; AM 2: Mastery of shaping.

19-20: Up for grabs, the other archmage special abilites don't really seem to help (arcane fire is nice for ppl with only utility spells, arcane reach is a joke and spell-like ability is painful for what you lose to gain it).

I hope that that what I wrote is understandable.

Unless I made some mistake this character should know about ([6 + 4] + (4 x 17) = 10 + 68, or 78 spells that are not lvl 0 (10 at lvl 1, then 17 lvls of +4 spells known/lvl of arcane spell caster increased) or 98 if you include cantrips.

I should be able to cast them this many times per day:
Spell lvl : 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9
Times/Day: 4/4/4/4/4/4/3/2/1
With Int Bonus (25 int for bonus spells from Spellcasting Prodigy)
Time/Day: 6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3/2/1

I was wondering if bonuses granted by non-inherant and non-base stats increase the number of spells/day (ie. a head band of intellect +2/+4/+6; +6 would push me up to 31 int, just shy of +11, but I could get a manual for a further +5 to hit 36 and possibly 8/7/7/7/7/6/5/4/3 spells/day).

I don't think that gear granted stats don't allow more spells/day, but maybe they do. Frankly this is something that I've never been quite sure about.

Unless of course someone has a radical way to make this generalist arcane caster for party support better for an entirely self-closed, no way-to-get-new- spells-unless-you-get-them-that-lvl, sort of lvl 1-20 situation.

I 'might' get create wonderous item with my lvl 18 feat, but I won't be able to use it on this character in this campaign.

Any comments/concerns/dookie-throwing/help would be appreciated.

Anyway, later.
NineInchNall
01-31-05, 01:26 PM Don't forget to metagame. The party Warlock should be giving you any spell you want. Just split the XP cost with him and voila!
Judging Eagle
02-01-05, 01:09 AM Uhm, I think that warlocks abiliuties are all either at will or abilities that they can use per day.

If not, then I'm gonna get him to learn spells that are on his list as well as mine and then simply copy those out of his book.

Up next are the spells to get, right now I've got the following potential spell-list thought up:

[blank slots means I can't decide what else to get for the level, either too many options, or none look promising]

Lvl 1 spells (14, 6 + 4 (collegiate wiz + int mod), plus an other 4 at lvl 2)
-grease
-comp languiages
-identify
-obscuring mist
-tenser's floating disk
-silent image
-ray of enfeeblement
-enlarge person (this has given the DM quite a few shocks already)
-prot. from evil
-magic weapon
-animate rope
-magic missile
-

lvl 2 (8, all other spell levels get at least 8 due to collegiate wizard's +4 new known spells/lvl)

-scorching ray
-knock
-see invis
-invis
-continual flame
-command undead
-spiderclimb (?)
-

3

-explosive runes
-tounges
-fly
-keen edge
-magic weapon, greater
-lighting bolt/fireball (depends how the WLD works, I'll get one or the other)
-
-

4
-remove curse (maybe, maybe not)
-stoneskin
-dimension door
-polymorph
-charm monster
-enlarge person, mass
-greater invisibility
-shadow conjuration

5
-shadow evocation
-telekinesis
-permenancy
-Transmute Rock to mud
-Transmute mud to rock
-rary's telepathic bond
-
-

6
-Greater Dispel Magic
-Geas/Quest (maybe, maybe not)
-Veil
-Create Undead
-Disintigrate
-flesh to stone (maybe)
-contingency
-

7
-greater shadow conjuration
-power word blind
-control undead
-
-
-
-
-

8
-moment of prescience
-mass charm monster
-
-
-
-
-
-

9
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Right now I'm going to look at spells that the party cleric can cast so that I'm not learning overlapping spells with the cleric (hence the buffs like enlarge person, but not bull's str, cat's grace etc.)

Also, at every level I can also know spells of lower levels, but I'm not too sure what to select.

In any case I've got a total of 86 spells that I can 'know' (6 + (4*20) = 6 + 86), that are divided between 14 on lvl 1 spells, and 8 for each other level (or less if i decide to sacrifice higher level knowable spells for lower-level ones that are more important.

Hopefully using the shadow conjuration and evocation spells I won't need as many direct damage spells (plus I'll prolly take spell focus illusion) taking up my spells known list (that and I'm going to rely on having multiple party members enlarged by myself and buffed by the cleric and favoured soul to deal with any head-on fights (maybe permanently enlarge them... prolly not and just use mass enlarge person).
NineInchNall
02-01-05, 02:49 AM Warlocks can use their "imbue item" feat to create any item using ANY spell in the phb or otherwise for which they have the appropriate item creation feat. Hence, if your warlock takes scribe scroll (a good idea for him, too), he can scribe scrolls of anything, including divine spells, when he hits 12th level.
Necron
02-01-05, 08:08 AM Warlocks can use their "imbue item" feat to create any item using ANY spell in the phb or otherwise for which they have the appropriate item creation feat. Hence, if your warlock takes scribe scroll (a good idea for him, too), he can scribe scrolls of anything, including divine spells, when he hits 12th level.

Well .. if your DM allows that loophole ;)

another question .. where is "Collegiate Wizard" from ?

Necron
Judging Eagle
02-01-05, 09:41 AM The complete arcane (preview) on the wotc site.

Link here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041114a) .

Well... if the warlock can truly do that..., well I guess I could dump collegiate wiz and have my character ready for Loremaster earlier. However that would be around lvl 6-ish, and it would be 6 more lvls until I'd get the extra spells. So, I'll stick with collegiate wiz since the 4 more known spells/lvl will be good at giving the party more options earlier. I guess I could always use a 'badly' worded wish to dump that feat afterwards for an item creation feat (like, after lvl 20...).
dagger
02-01-05, 10:17 AM I have read and am currently running this dungeon, and as you have said getting new spells can be a problem. I dont really have any advice on your build (but Collegiate Wizard is very important and a good feat), but I have some advice on playing a book wizard.

There is a rule in MoF that deals with using other spellcasters spellbooks as if it was your own, this could be very useful inside this dungeon. Also, try to get spells out of any allies you will hopefully meet up (depending on the direction your party goes) with along the way. I would also bring along one or two extra empty spell books with enchantments that protect them from damage. I would also give a copy (if you can afford it) of your main spellbook to a trustworthy part member to hold, just in case.

Try to space your spellcasting out over the day (lots of combat), and try to save a few spells for the "night time". I would also keep at least one defensive and/or escape spell for your personal use at all times (ie Dimension Door). This is not really specific to WLD, but after playing wizards over a few decades I have learned it can save your butt. :)
HoshiAdam
02-01-05, 10:22 AM I would recommend Melf's Acid Arrow, for those pesky locks the rogue can't get through.
dagger
02-01-05, 10:31 AM Or the spell Knock....:)
Judging Eagle
02-02-05, 12:57 AM I would recommend Melf's Acid Arrow, for those pesky locks the rogue can't get through.

lvl 2 (8, all other spell levels get at least 8 due to collegiate wizard's +4 new known spells/lvl)

-scorching ray
-knock
-see invis
-invis
-continual flame
-command undead
-spiderclimb (?)
-

Or the spell Knock....

Yeah, and if I -do- need to knock **** down, I've got scorching ray. It will probably be the onyl 'true' offense spell that I'll take up (other than magic missile since it never misses). I'm also going to 'learn' a variant type of ray... like... I don't know... "Sonic Ray"? :D (only blue slaad are immune to sonic and a few others i think). My only other 'offence' spells will be shadow conjuration (and later greater shadow conjuration) and shadow evocation.
OnCider
02-03-05, 04:51 AM I'm planning on doing exactly the same.

Someone pointed out to me that you can choose Divine Oracle for levels 6-7 without hurting your progression.

You get a domain and an evasion-like ability:

Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3
fnord
02-03-05, 07:50 AM A spell suggestion: Rope Trick is very useful for dungeon crawls; it allows the party to sleep safely.
Judging Eagle
02-03-05, 10:32 AM Well, in a dugeoun we're not just gonna flop about to go to bed.

Oh no, we're gonna piton/bar shut any doors that are nearby and then keep someone on watch (plus later on a few undead that we've created that I'll control as extra pickets).

I'm planning on doing exactly the same.

Someone pointed out to me that you can choose Divine Oracle for levels 6-7 without hurting your progression.

You get a domain and an evasion-like ability:

Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3
Yesterday 01:57 AM

Hmm, yeah, I came back to see what other PrCs I could possibly take to suck up the lvl 6-7 gap. I don't want to take too many LM levels before hitting AM. I'll prolly take LM to 6, hit archmage, then if I need to go for LM 7 for an other spell slot.

Right now I'm looking at Wiz9/LM6/AM2 to X/Dunno for the rest
OnCider
02-04-05, 06:19 AM Hmm, yeah, I came back to see what other PrCs I could possibly take to suck up the lvl 6-7 gap. I don't want to take too many LM levels before hitting AM. I'll prolly take LM to 6, hit archmage, then if I need to go for LM 7 for an other spell slot.

Right now I'm looking at Wiz9/LM6/AM2 to X/Dunno for the rest

I just don't think the letters Wiz9 belong on an optimisation board! Did you mean Wiz7 :confused: Going any further than Wiz5 is sub-optimal.

With Wizard 9/Loremaster 6 you're delaying entry into Archmage until 16th level for no apparent reason. Remember that "Scribe Scroll" counts towards the "3 metamagic/itemcreation feats" requirement for Loremaster.

I agree with getting into Archmage as soon as possible, I think getting LM7 though is nice for the extra secret.

I'm planning on:

Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 7/Archmage 3

This allows me to start Archmage at 15th level.

Then either finish Loremaster or most probably

Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 7/Archmage 4/Loremaster 7-9

To get into Divine Oracle you just need Knowledge (Religion) 8 and Skill Focus (Knowledge Religion). This satisfies the Skill Focus feat requirement for Loremaster (and also two more ranks satisfies the Knowledge (any) requirement).
OnCider
02-04-05, 07:50 AM the other archmage special abilites don't really seem to help (arcane fire is nice for ppl with only utility spells, arcane reach is a joke and spell-like ability is painful for what you lose to gain it).

Don't overlook Spell Power. Amoungst other things it increases your Spell Penetration against creatures with Spell Resistance. At higher levels this becomes more and more important.
Judging Eagle
02-04-05, 11:42 AM Yes, I knew I was overlooking something (and I was pretty sad that I couldn't get into a PrC before wiz 9 already).

The scribe scroll counting towards LM I hadn't even thought about making me able to get into that PrC earlier.

Spell Power is a good special ability (I was reviewing the AM's specials yesterday and the whole +1 to all spell DCs is pretty handy)

[damn this, i closed a bunch of tabs in fireox including this post that i was editing]

in any case, Div Orcale is from comp divine and it has what you said for it's pre-reqs.

i'm gonna go do a new leveling progression and post tonight
Judging Eagle
02-05-05, 03:08 AM Well, I got the Following progression done so far

1 Wizard 1 Familiar, Scribe, COll. Wiz, Spellcasting Prodigy
2 Wiz 2
3 Wiz 3 Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion))
4 Wiz 4
5 Wiz 5 [Extend Spell]
6 Divine Oracle 1 Chain Spell [DO 1st lvl abilities >_>]
7 DO 2 [Prescient Sense (ie. Evasion)]
8 Loremaster 1 [Secret (Lore of true Stamina (+2 fort saves))]
9 LM 2 [Lore: LM lvl + Int mod on lore checks] Spell Focus (Illusion)
10 LM 3 [Secret (Applicable Knowledge) Spell Focus (Dunno)]
11 LM 4 [Bonus Language]
12 LM 5 [Secret: extra 2nd lvl spell/day] Feat (Unknown)
13 Archmage 1 [Mastery of (Elements/Shaping)]
14 AM 2 [Spellpower/Mastery of (Elements/Shaping)]
15 AM 3 [Spellpower/Mastery of (Elements/Shaping)] Feat (Unknown)
16 ??
17 ??
18 ?? Feat (Unknown)
19 ??
20 ??

For levels 16 onwards I'm a bit lost, either I take up contemplative (since it seems to fit in with the wizard who wants to know more about the gods and the world aspect of the character) or focus on a more crafter-type PrC and take some more crafter-based feats (craft wonderous object, craft rod (to make a rod of absorption, fill it with charges then use them to fuel spells I've memorized, making it more useful than a wand since it can cast beyond lvl 4 spells as well as negate spells thrown at my character), maybe craft ring or arms & armour.
Endarire
02-06-05, 01:41 AM Can you take flaws for feats? If so, noncombatant and murky-eyed are generally good choices. Improved Initiative is a great feet for you, as is possibly Precotious Apprentice. (See the preview for more details.)

-EE
catharz
02-06-05, 01:51 AM Well .. if your DM allows that loophole ;)

Loophole? It is kind of the point of the ability.

Anyway, my best reccomendation is to take Sanctify relic, Craft wonderous, and possibly True believer (or use that loremaster UMD). Make a Tome of ancient lore.
Judging Eagle
02-07-05, 10:42 AM Loophole? It is kind of the point of the ability.

Anyway, my best reccomendation is to take Sanctify relic, Craft wonderous, and possibly True believer (or use that loremaster UMD). Make a Tome of ancient lore.

Well. I took a look at the complete divine and your suggestion makes a lot of sense... 90% chance of finding any arcane spell if you refer to the tome's index... :eek:
Saurenda
02-07-05, 01:50 PM That is Awesome.

Having a warlock, and Wizard in the party and crafting a Tome of ancient lore is a great idea.

The dungeon is lacking in equipment for making magical items, where would one purchase the materials necessary without having an artificer off hand to salvage other magical items for the sake of creating others?

On that note it might be better to have an Artificer come with your party over the warlock. That way the party has someone to craft everything like the warlock, but whom can do it at 1st level onward.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Judging Eagle 01-30-05, 01:55 AM	Right now I'm with a large group of players who are making PCs for the AEG world's largest dungeoun and I've decided to play the party spell caster, but not the blaster, we already have a warlock for that. So far the party is made up of: -Nameless Legion Bugbear rogue/fighter (he's going to be limited to 16 class levels doe to the LA) [Main Tank, with enlarge he's pretty formidable] -Human Warlock (used to be a halfing swashbuckler, but meh the guy prefers blasters, maybe a gish would work here) [Blaster, pretty straightforward] -Human Paladin (going to work as a last man standing kind of guy, but I think that he'd be better off as an offense-type) [Secondary Tank/Secondary Healer] -Human Ranger [Ranged damage dealer] -Human Rogue (really high dex/int, the guy got 52~ skill pts at lvl 1) [Sneak Attacker/Skill monkey] -Half-Orc Cleric [Primary Healer, Rear-guard/Tank] -Dwarf (Some non-core base class that mixes melee with the healing of a cleric out of the complete divine I think, it might be radiant servant.. not sure) [Secondary Healer, Secondary Tank] -Maybe a human bard, not sure yet. -My Human Mage (non-specialist, if I have to I'll go diviner and give up necomancy, however it has many buff/debuff spells that could come in handy) Right now I'm looking at going for a Wiz 9/Loremaster 7/Archmage 2, rest wiz or loremaster. I don't have complete arcane but two of the other players each have a copy that I could look at. My initial feat selection is: -Spellcasting Prodigy (+2 int for determening bonus spells/day) -Collegiate Wizard (6 + Int mod spells at lvl 1, 4 new spells known/lvl; as opposed to 3 + int mod and 2 new known spells /lvl) The reason for those is that I probably will not have access to either spell research, spell books that aren't my own or spell scrolls that I don't make myself. Hence being able to add spells to my repetoire innately should help for this lvl 1 -> lvl 20 dungeon crawl. The loremaster is to help get to Archmage slightly faster, plus the bonus 1st and 2nd lvl spells per day. Once I reach archmage I'm going to get mastery of elements (to modify elemental weapons upon casting to any other element) then mastery of shaping (to leave (min) 5x5 holes in any aoe's that I use). My lvl progression looks a bit like this: Legend: Level: Level Progressions (feats, stat increases) ; Class (and lvl) : Class benefits/increases 1:Coll. Wiz, Spell Prod. : wiz 1: Scribe, Famliar 2: - ; wiz 2: 3: 1st Metamagic Feat ; wiz 3: 4:+1 int (19 now, +4 mod); wiz 4: 5: - ;wiz 5:Wiz bonus feat (metamagic) 6: - ; Metamagic; wiz 6:7:wiz 7: 8: +1 int (20, +5 mod) ; wiz 8: 9: Skill focus (spell craft); wiz 9: 10: - ; Loremaster 1: Secret 1 (LM lvl + Int mod = 6; I can pick from +1 On attack rolls, +2 on any of the 3 saves (fort most likely), +3 hp, or 4 ranks in a skill I don't have) 11: - ; LM 2: Lore 12: +1 Int (21, +5 mod), Feat (Spell Focus (Evocation); LM 3: Secret 2 (LM 3 + 5: same as above, but also any one feat and +1 Dodge bonus to AC) 13: - ; LM 4: Bonus Language 14: - ; LM 5 Secret 3 (5 + 5: Same as above but also one bonus 2nd lvl spell/day and 1 bonus 1st lvl spell/day) 15: Feat (Spell Focus (Enchantment)); LM 6 : Greater Lore 16: +1 Int (22, +6 mod); LM 7: Secret 4 (After getting: the fort save, feat & 2nd lvl spell secrets I'm gonna get the Bonus lvl 1 spellday secret then drop out of the LM class) 17: - ; Archmage 1: Mastery of Elements (took a long time... but now old stuff like scorching bolt, fireball, lighting bolt, cone of cold, chain lighting etc. become five times are deadly since I can switch between acid/cold/fire/electricity/sonic when I begin casting, so I don't have to prepare pre-made elemental spells) 18: +1 Int (23, +6 mod) Feat: (I dunno) ; AM 2: Mastery of shaping. 19-20: Up for grabs, the other archmage special abilites don't really seem to help (arcane fire is nice for ppl with only utility spells, arcane reach is a joke and spell-like ability is painful for what you lose to gain it). I hope that that what I wrote is understandable. Unless I made some mistake this character should know about ([6 + 4] + (4 x 17) = 10 + 68, or 78 spells that are not lvl 0 (10 at lvl 1, then 17 lvls of +4 spells known/lvl of arcane spell caster increased) or 98 if you include cantrips. I should be able to cast them this many times per day: Spell lvl : 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 Times/Day: 4/4/4/4/4/4/3/2/1 With Int Bonus (25 int for bonus spells from Spellcasting Prodigy) Time/Day: 6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3/2/1 I was wondering if bonuses granted by non-inherant and non-base stats increase the number of spells/day (ie. a head band of intellect +2/+4/+6; +6 would push me up to 31 int, just shy of +11, but I could get a manual for a further +5 to hit 36 and possibly 8/7/7/7/7/6/5/4/3 spells/day). I don't think that gear granted stats don't allow more spells/day, but maybe they do. Frankly this is something that I've never been quite sure about. Unless of course someone has a radical way to make this generalist arcane caster for party support better for an entirely self-closed, no way-to-get-new- spells-unless-you-get-them-that-lvl, sort of lvl 1-20 situation. I 'might' get create wonderous item with my lvl 18 feat, but I won't be able to use it on this character in this campaign. Any comments/concerns/dookie-throwing/help would be appreciated. Anyway, later.
NineInchNall 01-31-05, 01:26 PM	Don't forget to metagame. The party Warlock should be giving you any spell you want. Just split the XP cost with him and voila!
Judging Eagle 02-01-05, 01:09 AM	Uhm, I think that warlocks abiliuties are all either at will or abilities that they can use per day. If not, then I'm gonna get him to learn spells that are on his list as well as mine and then simply copy those out of his book. Up next are the spells to get, right now I've got the following potential spell-list thought up: [blank slots means I can't decide what else to get for the level, either too many options, or none look promising] Lvl 1 spells (14, 6 + 4 (collegiate wiz + int mod), plus an other 4 at lvl 2) -grease -comp languiages -identify -obscuring mist -tenser's floating disk -silent image -ray of enfeeblement -enlarge person (this has given the DM quite a few shocks already) -prot. from evil -magic weapon -animate rope -magic missile - lvl 2 (8, all other spell levels get at least 8 due to collegiate wizard's +4 new known spells/lvl) -scorching ray -knock -see invis -invis -continual flame -command undead -spiderclimb (?) - 3 -explosive runes -tounges -fly -keen edge -magic weapon, greater -lighting bolt/fireball (depends how the WLD works, I'll get one or the other) - - 4 -remove curse (maybe, maybe not) -stoneskin -dimension door -polymorph -charm monster -enlarge person, mass -greater invisibility -shadow conjuration 5 -shadow evocation -telekinesis -permenancy -Transmute Rock to mud -Transmute mud to rock -rary's telepathic bond - - 6 -Greater Dispel Magic -Geas/Quest (maybe, maybe not) -Veil -Create Undead -Disintigrate -flesh to stone (maybe) -contingency - 7 -greater shadow conjuration -power word blind -control undead - - - - - 8 -moment of prescience -mass charm monster - - - - - - 9 - - - - - - - - Right now I'm going to look at spells that the party cleric can cast so that I'm not learning overlapping spells with the cleric (hence the buffs like enlarge person, but not bull's str, cat's grace etc.) Also, at every level I can also know spells of lower levels, but I'm not too sure what to select. In any case I've got a total of 86 spells that I can 'know' (6 + (4*20) = 6 + 86), that are divided between 14 on lvl 1 spells, and 8 for each other level (or less if i decide to sacrifice higher level knowable spells for lower-level ones that are more important. Hopefully using the shadow conjuration and evocation spells I won't need as many direct damage spells (plus I'll prolly take spell focus illusion) taking up my spells known list (that and I'm going to rely on having multiple party members enlarged by myself and buffed by the cleric and favoured soul to deal with any head-on fights (maybe permanently enlarge them... prolly not and just use mass enlarge person).
NineInchNall 02-01-05, 02:49 AM	Warlocks can use their "imbue item" feat to create any item using ANY spell in the phb or otherwise for which they have the appropriate item creation feat. Hence, if your warlock takes scribe scroll (a good idea for him, too), he can scribe scrolls of anything, including divine spells, when he hits 12th level.
Necron 02-01-05, 08:08 AM	Warlocks can use their "imbue item" feat to create any item using ANY spell in the phb or otherwise for which they have the appropriate item creation feat. Hence, if your warlock takes scribe scroll (a good idea for him, too), he can scribe scrolls of anything, including divine spells, when he hits 12th level. Well .. if your DM allows that loophole ;) another question .. where is "Collegiate Wizard" from ? Necron
Judging Eagle 02-01-05, 09:41 AM	The complete arcane (preview) on the wotc site. Link here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041114a) . Well... if the warlock can truly do that..., well I guess I could dump collegiate wiz and have my character ready for Loremaster earlier. However that would be around lvl 6-ish, and it would be 6 more lvls until I'd get the extra spells. So, I'll stick with collegiate wiz since the 4 more known spells/lvl will be good at giving the party more options earlier. I guess I could always use a 'badly' worded wish to dump that feat afterwards for an item creation feat (like, after lvl 20...).
dagger 02-01-05, 10:17 AM	I have read and am currently running this dungeon, and as you have said getting new spells can be a problem. I dont really have any advice on your build (but Collegiate Wizard is very important and a good feat), but I have some advice on playing a book wizard. There is a rule in MoF that deals with using other spellcasters spellbooks as if it was your own, this could be very useful inside this dungeon. Also, try to get spells out of any allies you will hopefully meet up (depending on the direction your party goes) with along the way. I would also bring along one or two extra empty spell books with enchantments that protect them from damage. I would also give a copy (if you can afford it) of your main spellbook to a trustworthy part member to hold, just in case. Try to space your spellcasting out over the day (lots of combat), and try to save a few spells for the "night time". I would also keep at least one defensive and/or escape spell for your personal use at all times (ie Dimension Door). This is not really specific to WLD, but after playing wizards over a few decades I have learned it can save your butt. :)
HoshiAdam 02-01-05, 10:22 AM	I would recommend Melf's Acid Arrow, for those pesky locks the rogue can't get through.
dagger 02-01-05, 10:31 AM	Or the spell Knock....:)
Judging Eagle 02-02-05, 12:57 AM	I would recommend Melf's Acid Arrow, for those pesky locks the rogue can't get through. lvl 2 (8, all other spell levels get at least 8 due to collegiate wizard's +4 new known spells/lvl) -scorching ray -knock -see invis -invis -continual flame -command undead -spiderclimb (?) - Or the spell Knock.... Yeah, and if I -do- need to knock **** down, I've got scorching ray. It will probably be the onyl 'true' offense spell that I'll take up (other than magic missile since it never misses). I'm also going to 'learn' a variant type of ray... like... I don't know... "Sonic Ray"? :D (only blue slaad are immune to sonic and a few others i think). My only other 'offence' spells will be shadow conjuration (and later greater shadow conjuration) and shadow evocation.
OnCider 02-03-05, 04:51 AM	I'm planning on doing exactly the same. Someone pointed out to me that you can choose Divine Oracle for levels 6-7 without hurting your progression. You get a domain and an evasion-like ability: Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3
fnord 02-03-05, 07:50 AM	A spell suggestion: Rope Trick is very useful for dungeon crawls; it allows the party to sleep safely.
Judging Eagle 02-03-05, 10:32 AM	Well, in a dugeoun we're not just gonna flop about to go to bed. Oh no, we're gonna piton/bar shut any doors that are nearby and then keep someone on watch (plus later on a few undead that we've created that I'll control as extra pickets). I'm planning on doing exactly the same. Someone pointed out to me that you can choose Divine Oracle for levels 6-7 without hurting your progression. You get a domain and an evasion-like ability: Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3 Yesterday 01:57 AM Hmm, yeah, I came back to see what other PrCs I could possibly take to suck up the lvl 6-7 gap. I don't want to take too many LM levels before hitting AM. I'll prolly take LM to 6, hit archmage, then if I need to go for LM 7 for an other spell slot. Right now I'm looking at Wiz9/LM6/AM2 to X/Dunno for the rest
OnCider 02-04-05, 06:19 AM	Hmm, yeah, I came back to see what other PrCs I could possibly take to suck up the lvl 6-7 gap. I don't want to take too many LM levels before hitting AM. I'll prolly take LM to 6, hit archmage, then if I need to go for LM 7 for an other spell slot. Right now I'm looking at Wiz9/LM6/AM2 to X/Dunno for the rest I just don't think the letters Wiz9 belong on an optimisation board! Did you mean Wiz7 :confused: Going any further than Wiz5 is sub-optimal. With Wizard 9/Loremaster 6 you're delaying entry into Archmage until 16th level for no apparent reason. Remember that "Scribe Scroll" counts towards the "3 metamagic/itemcreation feats" requirement for Loremaster. I agree with getting into Archmage as soon as possible, I think getting LM7 though is nice for the extra secret. I'm planning on: Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 7/Archmage 3 This allows me to start Archmage at 15th level. Then either finish Loremaster or most probably Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 7/Archmage 4/Loremaster 7-9 To get into Divine Oracle you just need Knowledge (Religion) 8 and Skill Focus (Knowledge Religion). This satisfies the Skill Focus feat requirement for Loremaster (and also two more ranks satisfies the Knowledge (any) requirement).
OnCider 02-04-05, 07:50 AM	the other archmage special abilites don't really seem to help (arcane fire is nice for ppl with only utility spells, arcane reach is a joke and spell-like ability is painful for what you lose to gain it). Don't overlook Spell Power. Amoungst other things it increases your Spell Penetration against creatures with Spell Resistance. At higher levels this becomes more and more important.
Judging Eagle 02-04-05, 11:42 AM	Yes, I knew I was overlooking something (and I was pretty sad that I couldn't get into a PrC before wiz 9 already). The scribe scroll counting towards LM I hadn't even thought about making me able to get into that PrC earlier. Spell Power is a good special ability (I was reviewing the AM's specials yesterday and the whole +1 to all spell DCs is pretty handy) [damn this, i closed a bunch of tabs in fireox including this post that i was editing] in any case, Div Orcale is from comp divine and it has what you said for it's pre-reqs. i'm gonna go do a new leveling progression and post tonight
Judging Eagle 02-05-05, 03:08 AM	Well, I got the Following progression done so far 1 Wizard 1 Familiar, Scribe, COll. Wiz, Spellcasting Prodigy 2 Wiz 2 3 Wiz 3 Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion)) 4 Wiz 4 5 Wiz 5 [Extend Spell] 6 Divine Oracle 1 Chain Spell [DO 1st lvl abilities >_>] 7 DO 2 [Prescient Sense (ie. Evasion)] 8 Loremaster 1 [Secret (Lore of true Stamina (+2 fort saves))] 9 LM 2 [Lore: LM lvl + Int mod on lore checks] Spell Focus (Illusion) 10 LM 3 [Secret (Applicable Knowledge) Spell Focus (Dunno)] 11 LM 4 [Bonus Language] 12 LM 5 [Secret: extra 2nd lvl spell/day] Feat (Unknown) 13 Archmage 1 [Mastery of (Elements/Shaping)] 14 AM 2 [Spellpower/Mastery of (Elements/Shaping)] 15 AM 3 [Spellpower/Mastery of (Elements/Shaping)] Feat (Unknown) 16 ?? 17 ?? 18 ?? Feat (Unknown) 19 ?? 20 ?? For levels 16 onwards I'm a bit lost, either I take up contemplative (since it seems to fit in with the wizard who wants to know more about the gods and the world aspect of the character) or focus on a more crafter-type PrC and take some more crafter-based feats (craft wonderous object, craft rod (to make a rod of absorption, fill it with charges then use them to fuel spells I've memorized, making it more useful than a wand since it can cast beyond lvl 4 spells as well as negate spells thrown at my character), maybe craft ring or arms & armour.
Endarire 02-06-05, 01:41 AM	Can you take flaws for feats? If so, noncombatant and murky-eyed are generally good choices. Improved Initiative is a great feet for you, as is possibly Precotious Apprentice. (See the preview for more details.) -EE
catharz 02-06-05, 01:51 AM	Well .. if your DM allows that loophole ;) Loophole? It is kind of the point of the ability. Anyway, my best reccomendation is to take Sanctify relic, Craft wonderous, and possibly True believer (or use that loremaster UMD). Make a Tome of ancient lore.
Judging Eagle 02-07-05, 10:42 AM	Loophole? It is kind of the point of the ability. Anyway, my best reccomendation is to take Sanctify relic, Craft wonderous, and possibly True believer (or use that loremaster UMD). Make a Tome of ancient lore. Well. I took a look at the complete divine and your suggestion makes a lot of sense... 90% chance of finding any arcane spell if you refer to the tome's index... :eek:
Saurenda 02-07-05, 01:50 PM	That is Awesome. Having a warlock, and Wizard in the party and crafting a Tome of ancient lore is a great idea. The dungeon is lacking in equipment for making magical items, where would one purchase the materials necessary without having an artificer off hand to salvage other magical items for the sake of creating others? On that note it might be better to have an Artificer come with your party over the warlock. That way the party has someone to craft everything like the warlock, but whom can do it at 1st level onward.