Building a Wraithstriker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Wraithstriker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fargren
10-23-06, 07:57 PM Me and some firends are having a contest. A party of 4 lvl 20 PCs against a random Great Wyrm. So I decided to build a Gish character with power attack and wraithstrike. I can use the firsdt four completes and the core rulebooks.
25 point buy, wich I allready spent, normal lvl 20 gold, and no active buffs with a duration of less than 12 hours. I plan to use AMF with Extraordinary Spell Aim, Arcane strike, persistant Wraith Strike, persistant swift fly, and some other stuff. I will not use Polymorph. I'll have a +1 Wounding Holy Magebane greatsword of Speed, and use Greater Magic Weapon to raise the bonus.
My build so far is Ftr 2 / Sor 5 / Spellsword 1 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Sor 2.

Any ideas?
Thanks.
JosephKell
10-23-06, 08:30 PM Uh... You are using Wraithstrike, the key is to maximize your BAB to facilitate more Power Attack.

Also, can you really use Persistant Spell on Wraithstrike? That just seems so wrong... And if you can, you just need level 8 spells. While you're at it, you might as well do Persistant Blades of Flame (in Complete Arcane it is 2nd level spell, in SpC--which you didn't list as usable--it is Sor/Wiz 1).

So Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 9 would work (Spells as Sorcerer 16).

Personally though, I think the idea of Persistant Wraithstrike doesn't work. If I am right, you just need 2nd level spells for Wraithstrike (and then you want a lot of them).

I know you did put "I will not use Polymorph." I think you are gimping yourself. I know it can't be because you think Polymorph is broken if you think Persistant Wraithstrike is legal.

I see no reason not to use Quickened Enlarge Person (spells up to 1 full round in length can be quickened) + Polymorph to become an Annis Hag. It uses another 5th and another 4th level spell. Enlarge Person makes your gear size up to fit your new form.

What about a... Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 1/Dragon Disciple 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1 that is 16 levels. So maybe Rage Mage 4 before Dragon Disciple?

But Polymorph (Annis Hag) probably gets more strength than Dragon Disciple (your normal stats are replaced, so the Half-Dragon stuff won't matter)

Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Rage Mage 10 nets you Sorcerer 9, enough for 4th level Polymorph (16 levels). Exotic Weapon Master (Uncanny Blow) for more Strength damage when you attack. Might as well do 1 Spellsword and 2 more Sorcerer to minimize further spell increase loss.

Final is Sorcerer spells as Sorcerer 12.

Arcane Prepartion + Extend Spell (cast Polymorph as 5th level spell).

While Spell Raging your CL is 20.
Warrior's Cry sets your BAB at 20 (i.e. +40 damage).
Strength (as Annis) defaults to 25. +4 with Rage + 6 (Str item). So 35 Strength without effort. For +12 Str Modifier. Uncanny Blow sets that to +24 damage when using your exotic weapon (I like the Great Scimitar).

Other spells, such as Haste or whatever will help.

Now, I was tempted to suggest something like "Cast a spell like Stony Grasp or Black Tenticles to grapple the dragon" then I realized "It's a ****ing Great Wyrm. It is gonna have a ridiculous grapple modifier." The point of that is to prevent it from threatening the areas around it.

There is a spell that makes flying things fall, but I think that is from the Miniature's Handbook.

Too bad you can't use the Draconomicon, Dragonic Polymorph (Sor/Wiz 5) is so much better than Extended Polymorph (also Sor/Wiz 5). 20 HD cap (thank you Spell Rage), Str of Creature +8, Constitution +2... Just make sure you pick up a Large sized thing.
Fargren
10-23-06, 10:26 PM I'm not using polymorph becuase it's very close ot being banned from the competition, and I don't want to have to rebuild my build before I finish it.
About Quicken spell, remember I'm a sorcerer. I cannot really use it much, unless I get arcane preparation. Maybe preparing a few quickened true strikes could work, though.
Why couldn't Wraitstrike be persisted? Unless it's been modified in SpC, I don't see the problem.
If baldes of flame was lvl 1, I would use it. But I don't have enough lvl 8 slots. What lvl 1 spelll do you recomed I persist?
PhaedrusXY
10-23-06, 10:30 PM Wraithstrike is a swift action to cast. I don't even see why you'd want to Persist it. I mean, seriously, how often do you run out of 2nd level spellslots as a high level sorcerer? If it is really a problem, buy a freakin' ring of wizardry 2, and save your 8th level spellslot for an actual 8th level spell...

Of course, if you're going through some kind of endurance match where you'll have way more than the normal rounds of combat in a day, then I understand.
SaintX
10-23-06, 11:03 PM if you have the cash and feats,
forge ring (prerequisite)
extra rings (eberron)
this allows you a total of 4 ring slots.
a sorcerer with a ring of wizardry 2, 3 and 4.
maybe a ring of freedom of movement would be handy to avoid being grappled.
you are able to cast spells in a higher level spell slot than needed.
therefore, you could use all of your spell slots of second level or higher for wraithstrike.
aziraphale60
10-23-06, 11:52 PM Wraithstrike is a swift action to cast. I don't even see why you'd want to Persist it.

my guess would be so he can use his swift actions for something else every round.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-24-06, 12:18 AM Persistant Wraithstrike is totally worth it, if your DM will allow it. I'd actually recommend against charging feats, for the following reason: Arcane Strike (feat from CWar).

You want to get that full-attack to optimize arcane strike. Now you want to make the most # of attacks to optimize arcane strike. I recommend TWF to do this. Mix with a modest amount of power attack and a level of exotic weapons master. Here's my suggested build:

Race: Human
Build: Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/EK 10/Exotic Weapons Master 1/Sorcerer 2
BAB: 17
CL: 16

Feats:
1. TWF, (EWP: Doublesword), (WF: Doublesword)
2. Power Attack
3. Practiced Spell Caster
6. Extend Spell
8. Imp. TWF
9. Persistant Spell
12. Arcane Strike
15. G TWF
18. Quicken Spell

With your Exotic Weapons Master level, take the exotic flurry ability. This nabs you one more attack on a full attack with a double weapon.

So now you have 4 primary + 3 secondary + 1 flurry + 2 speed (enhancement to both sides) -> use greater magic weapon to give both sides a +5 enhancement.

So that's 10 attacks on a full attack. Now use arcane strike to burn an 8th level slot. This gives +8 on all the attacks. That's a free action. We assume you have wraithstrike running. Use a quickened teleporation effect to close range. Full attack, power attacking some amount (you're only going to get 5 attacks with a 1:1 ratio... so that's not the big bread winner. You're better off with accuracy). Each attack, however, gains +8d4 untyped damage due to arcane strike (if you sack an 8th level slot).

You'll only be able to sack an 8th level slot once or twice a day... but still. That should be enough to kill the dragon. Assuming all hits that gives 80d4 + 10*(BASE + ENH) + 15/2*STR (assuming 20 STR = somewhere around 330 AVG DAMAGE. Do that twice, and the dragon should be dead.

Your typical power attacking build will want a 2 handed weapon (maxing out the # of attacks at around 5) and will require charging mechanics to get the optimal power attack ratio. That's all well and good if you can pounce, but if you're not willing to polymorph, I'm not seeing a way that you could work pounce in with your book list. That's why I recommend the arcane strike optimization.
Shorty101
10-24-06, 04:39 AM Build: Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/EK 10/Exotic Weapons Master 1/Sorcerer 2

You have a problem with this build TG, doesn't Eldritch knight require at least 3rd level arcane spells You will need to put minumum 1 more level into sorceror so the build may look like this:

Build: Fighter 2/Sorceror 5/Spellsword 1/EK 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Sorceror 1
Fargren
10-24-06, 05:12 PM Here's my suggested build:

Race: Human
Build: Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/EK 10/Exotic Weapons Master 1/Sorcerer 2
BAB: 17
CL: 16

Feats:
1. TWF, (EWP: Doublesword), (WF: Doublesword)
2. Power Attack
3. Practiced Spell Caster
6. Extend Spell
8. Imp. TWF
9. Persistant Spell
12. Arcane Strike
15. G TWF
18. Quicken Spell

With your Exotic Weapons Master level, take the exotic flurry ability. This nabs you one more attack on a full attack with a double weapon.

So now you have 4 primary + 3 secondary + 1 flurry + 2 speed (enhancement to both sides) -> use greater magic weapon to give both sides a +5 enhancement.

So that's 10 attacks on a full attack. Now use arcane strike to burn an 8th level slot. This gives +8 on all the attacks. That's a free action. We assume you have wraithstrike running. Use a quickened teleporation effect to close range. Full attack, power attacking some amount (you're only going to get 5 attacks with a 1:1 ratio... so that's not the big bread winner. You're better off with accuracy). Each attack, however, gains +8d4 untyped damage due to arcane strike (if you sack an 8th level slot).

You'll only be able to sack an 8th level slot once or twice a day... but still. That should be enough to kill the dragon. Assuming all hits that gives 80d4 + 10*(BASE + ENH) + 15/2*STR (assuming 20 STR = somewhere around 330 AVG DAMAGE. Do that twice, and the dragon should be dead.

Your typical power attacking build will want a 2 handed weapon (maxing out the # of attacks at around 5) and will require charging mechanics to get the optimal power attack ratio. That's all well and good if you can pounce, but if you're not willing to polymorph, I'm not seeing a way that you could work pounce in with your book list. That's why I recommend the arcane strike optimization.
I Like this :D. However, I can't use a wuickened teleportation effect, since I can't use quicken spell because I'm a sorcerer(and PHB II isn't allowed). Also, I think having two weapons of speed doesn't give you two extra attacks.
Armoracia Rusticana
10-24-06, 05:47 PM Arcane preparation, quicken teleport as a prepared spell?
ninjarabbit
10-24-06, 06:09 PM I'd try to get a level of ranger in there istead of 2 fighter levels. The favored enemy bonus adds up when you're doing all those attacks
PhaedrusXY
10-24-06, 06:50 PM What book is the druid spell Lion's Charge in? CAdv? If so, that might be worth getting put into a Ring of Spellstoring somehow. Can you use a wand to cast a spell into a Ring of Spellstoring? And could you cast a Swift action spell out of a Ring of Spellstoring as a Swift action? Or would it be a Standard action?

I'd max your Use Magic Device ranks out, either way. Even crossclass, you should be able to use wands and staves fairly reliably, and that opens up druid and cleric buffs.
Carey Z W
10-24-06, 07:25 PM D20 SRD
Speed

When making a full attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)

So now you have 4 primary + 3 secondary + 1 flurry + 2 speed (enhancement to both sides) -> use greater magic weapon to give both sides a +5 enhancement.

You don't get two attacks with speed, just the one. Speed is a similar effect to speed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fargren 10-23-06, 07:57 PM	Me and some firends are having a contest. A party of 4 lvl 20 PCs against a random Great Wyrm. So I decided to build a Gish character with power attack and wraithstrike. I can use the firsdt four completes and the core rulebooks. 25 point buy, wich I allready spent, normal lvl 20 gold, and no active buffs with a duration of less than 12 hours. I plan to use AMF with Extraordinary Spell Aim, Arcane strike, persistant Wraith Strike, persistant swift fly, and some other stuff. I will not use Polymorph. I'll have a +1 Wounding Holy Magebane greatsword of Speed, and use Greater Magic Weapon to raise the bonus. My build so far is Ftr 2 / Sor 5 / Spellsword 1 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Sor 2. Any ideas? Thanks.
JosephKell 10-23-06, 08:30 PM	Uh... You are using Wraithstrike, the key is to maximize your BAB to facilitate more Power Attack. Also, can you really use Persistant Spell on Wraithstrike? That just seems so wrong... And if you can, you just need level 8 spells. While you're at it, you might as well do Persistant Blades of Flame (in Complete Arcane it is 2nd level spell, in SpC--which you didn't list as usable--it is Sor/Wiz 1). So Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 9 would work (Spells as Sorcerer 16). Personally though, I think the idea of Persistant Wraithstrike doesn't work. If I am right, you just need 2nd level spells for Wraithstrike (and then you want a lot of them). I know you did put "I will not use Polymorph." I think you are gimping yourself. I know it can't be because you think Polymorph is broken if you think Persistant Wraithstrike is legal. I see no reason not to use Quickened Enlarge Person (spells up to 1 full round in length can be quickened) + Polymorph to become an Annis Hag. It uses another 5th and another 4th level spell. Enlarge Person makes your gear size up to fit your new form. What about a... Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 1/Dragon Disciple 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1 that is 16 levels. So maybe Rage Mage 4 before Dragon Disciple? But Polymorph (Annis Hag) probably gets more strength than Dragon Disciple (your normal stats are replaced, so the Half-Dragon stuff won't matter) Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Rage Mage 10 nets you Sorcerer 9, enough for 4th level Polymorph (16 levels). Exotic Weapon Master (Uncanny Blow) for more Strength damage when you attack. Might as well do 1 Spellsword and 2 more Sorcerer to minimize further spell increase loss. Final is Sorcerer spells as Sorcerer 12. Arcane Prepartion + Extend Spell (cast Polymorph as 5th level spell). While Spell Raging your CL is 20. Warrior's Cry sets your BAB at 20 (i.e. +40 damage). Strength (as Annis) defaults to 25. +4 with Rage + 6 (Str item). So 35 Strength without effort. For +12 Str Modifier. Uncanny Blow sets that to +24 damage when using your exotic weapon (I like the Great Scimitar). Other spells, such as Haste or whatever will help. Now, I was tempted to suggest something like "Cast a spell like Stony Grasp or Black Tenticles to grapple the dragon" then I realized "It's a ****ing Great Wyrm. It is gonna have a ridiculous grapple modifier." The point of that is to prevent it from threatening the areas around it. There is a spell that makes flying things fall, but I think that is from the Miniature's Handbook. Too bad you can't use the Draconomicon, Dragonic Polymorph (Sor/Wiz 5) is so much better than Extended Polymorph (also Sor/Wiz 5). 20 HD cap (thank you Spell Rage), Str of Creature +8, Constitution +2... Just make sure you pick up a Large sized thing.
Fargren 10-23-06, 10:26 PM	I'm not using polymorph becuase it's very close ot being banned from the competition, and I don't want to have to rebuild my build before I finish it. About Quicken spell, remember I'm a sorcerer. I cannot really use it much, unless I get arcane preparation. Maybe preparing a few quickened true strikes could work, though. Why couldn't Wraitstrike be persisted? Unless it's been modified in SpC, I don't see the problem. If baldes of flame was lvl 1, I would use it. But I don't have enough lvl 8 slots. What lvl 1 spelll do you recomed I persist?
PhaedrusXY 10-23-06, 10:30 PM	Wraithstrike is a swift action to cast. I don't even see why you'd want to Persist it. I mean, seriously, how often do you run out of 2nd level spellslots as a high level sorcerer? If it is really a problem, buy a freakin' ring of wizardry 2, and save your 8th level spellslot for an actual 8th level spell... Of course, if you're going through some kind of endurance match where you'll have way more than the normal rounds of combat in a day, then I understand.
SaintX 10-23-06, 11:03 PM	if you have the cash and feats, forge ring (prerequisite) extra rings (eberron) this allows you a total of 4 ring slots. a sorcerer with a ring of wizardry 2, 3 and 4. maybe a ring of freedom of movement would be handy to avoid being grappled. you are able to cast spells in a higher level spell slot than needed. therefore, you could use all of your spell slots of second level or higher for wraithstrike.
aziraphale60 10-23-06, 11:52 PM	Wraithstrike is a swift action to cast. I don't even see why you'd want to Persist it. my guess would be so he can use his swift actions for something else every round.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-24-06, 12:18 AM	Persistant Wraithstrike is totally worth it, if your DM will allow it. I'd actually recommend against charging feats, for the following reason: Arcane Strike (feat from CWar). You want to get that full-attack to optimize arcane strike. Now you want to make the most # of attacks to optimize arcane strike. I recommend TWF to do this. Mix with a modest amount of power attack and a level of exotic weapons master. Here's my suggested build: Race: Human Build: Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/EK 10/Exotic Weapons Master 1/Sorcerer 2 BAB: 17 CL: 16 Feats: 1. TWF, (EWP: Doublesword), (WF: Doublesword) 2. Power Attack 3. Practiced Spell Caster 6. Extend Spell 8. Imp. TWF 9. Persistant Spell 12. Arcane Strike 15. G TWF 18. Quicken Spell With your Exotic Weapons Master level, take the exotic flurry ability. This nabs you one more attack on a full attack with a double weapon. So now you have 4 primary + 3 secondary + 1 flurry + 2 speed (enhancement to both sides) -> use greater magic weapon to give both sides a +5 enhancement. So that's 10 attacks on a full attack. Now use arcane strike to burn an 8th level slot. This gives +8 on all the attacks. That's a free action. We assume you have wraithstrike running. Use a quickened teleporation effect to close range. Full attack, power attacking some amount (you're only going to get 5 attacks with a 1:1 ratio... so that's not the big bread winner. You're better off with accuracy). Each attack, however, gains +8d4 untyped damage due to arcane strike (if you sack an 8th level slot). You'll only be able to sack an 8th level slot once or twice a day... but still. That should be enough to kill the dragon. Assuming all hits that gives 80d4 + 10(BASE + ENH) + 15/2STR (assuming 20 STR = somewhere around 330 AVG DAMAGE. Do that twice, and the dragon should be dead. Your typical power attacking build will want a 2 handed weapon (maxing out the # of attacks at around 5) and will require charging mechanics to get the optimal power attack ratio. That's all well and good if you can pounce, but if you're not willing to polymorph, I'm not seeing a way that you could work pounce in with your book list. That's why I recommend the arcane strike optimization.
Shorty101 10-24-06, 04:39 AM	Build: Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/EK 10/Exotic Weapons Master 1/Sorcerer 2 You have a problem with this build TG, doesn't Eldritch knight require at least 3rd level arcane spells You will need to put minumum 1 more level into sorceror so the build may look like this: Build: Fighter 2/Sorceror 5/Spellsword 1/EK 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Sorceror 1
Fargren 10-24-06, 05:12 PM	Here's my suggested build: Race: Human Build: Fighter 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/EK 10/Exotic Weapons Master 1/Sorcerer 2 BAB: 17 CL: 16 Feats: 1. TWF, (EWP: Doublesword), (WF: Doublesword) 2. Power Attack 3. Practiced Spell Caster 6. Extend Spell 8. Imp. TWF 9. Persistant Spell 12. Arcane Strike 15. G TWF 18. Quicken Spell With your Exotic Weapons Master level, take the exotic flurry ability. This nabs you one more attack on a full attack with a double weapon. So now you have 4 primary + 3 secondary + 1 flurry + 2 speed (enhancement to both sides) -> use greater magic weapon to give both sides a +5 enhancement. So that's 10 attacks on a full attack. Now use arcane strike to burn an 8th level slot. This gives +8 on all the attacks. That's a free action. We assume you have wraithstrike running. Use a quickened teleporation effect to close range. Full attack, power attacking some amount (you're only going to get 5 attacks with a 1:1 ratio... so that's not the big bread winner. You're better off with accuracy). Each attack, however, gains +8d4 untyped damage due to arcane strike (if you sack an 8th level slot). You'll only be able to sack an 8th level slot once or twice a day... but still. That should be enough to kill the dragon. Assuming all hits that gives 80d4 + 10(BASE + ENH) + 15/2STR (assuming 20 STR = somewhere around 330 AVG DAMAGE. Do that twice, and the dragon should be dead. Your typical power attacking build will want a 2 handed weapon (maxing out the # of attacks at around 5) and will require charging mechanics to get the optimal power attack ratio. That's all well and good if you can pounce, but if you're not willing to polymorph, I'm not seeing a way that you could work pounce in with your book list. That's why I recommend the arcane strike optimization. I Like this :D. However, I can't use a wuickened teleportation effect, since I can't use quicken spell because I'm a sorcerer(and PHB II isn't allowed). Also, I think having two weapons of speed doesn't give you two extra attacks.
Armoracia Rusticana 10-24-06, 05:47 PM	Arcane preparation, quicken teleport as a prepared spell?
ninjarabbit 10-24-06, 06:09 PM	I'd try to get a level of ranger in there istead of 2 fighter levels. The favored enemy bonus adds up when you're doing all those attacks
PhaedrusXY 10-24-06, 06:50 PM	What book is the druid spell Lion's Charge in? CAdv? If so, that might be worth getting put into a Ring of Spellstoring somehow. Can you use a wand to cast a spell into a Ring of Spellstoring? And could you cast a Swift action spell out of a Ring of Spellstoring as a Swift action? Or would it be a Standard action? I'd max your Use Magic Device ranks out, either way. Even crossclass, you should be able to use wands and staves fairly reliably, and that opens up druid and cleric buffs.
Carey Z W 10-24-06, 07:25 PM	D20 SRD Speed When making a full attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.) So now you have 4 primary + 3 secondary + 1 flurry + 2 speed (enhancement to both sides) -> use greater magic weapon to give both sides a +5 enhancement. You don't get two attacks with speed, just the one. Speed is a similar effect to speed.