Building an arcane rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building an arcane rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ub3rwhiskers
10-04-06, 09:37 PM I'm interested in building a rogue that utilizes the Arcane Trickster and/or Daggerspell Mage PrCs but honestly don't know much about them. What are good levels to dip into these classes?

Also, what kind of feat progression do you take with this kind of build? Do use metamagic feats to increase your spellcasting, or merely use the spells you have to buff yourself and take feats that enhance your rogueliness?
OldManWinter
10-04-06, 10:02 PM Check out:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=73882
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=609461
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer
10-04-06, 10:37 PM Hmm, well, I've tried to make an Arcane Trickster type build, but in truth, I've found that you can't make it work in the low levels. However, Anima Mage and Binder present some interesting Possibilities in the form of Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike from Andromalius and Malphas.

Consider:
1: Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice)
2: Wizard 2
3: Binder (Improved Binding)
4: Anima Mage 1
5: Anima Mage 2
6: Anima Mage 3
7: Anima Mage 4
8: Anima Mage 5
9: Rogue 1
10: Arcane Trickster 1

or

1: Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice)
2: Wizard 2
3: Binder (Improved Binding)
4: Anima Mage 1
5: Anima Mage 2
6: Anima Mage 3
7: Rogue 1
8: Arcane Trickster 1

or

1: Rogue 1
2: Wizard 1
3: Wizard 2
4: Wizard 3
5: Wizard 4
6: Wizard 5
7: Psychic Rogue 1
8: Arcane Trickster 1

or

1: Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice)
2: Wizard 2
3: Binder (Improved Binding)
4: Anima Mage 1
5: Anima Mage 2
6: Anima Mage 3
7: Anima Mage 4
8: Anima Mage 5
9: Anima Mage 6
10: Anima Mage 7
11: Anima Mage 8
12: Arcane Trickster 1

:)
GaffeR
10-04-06, 10:46 PM Human Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Daggerspell Mage 10/Arcane Trickster 5 (not necessarily in that order, but you need DsM 3 before AT).

H. Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard)
1. TWF
3. Weapon Focus (Dagger)

If you can take flaws, Able Learned is a good choice. Anyways, Practiced Spellcaster gets you into DsM after 5 class levels, which is nice. If you're working the trap-monkey role, you might want to shove in a level of AT every once in a while to boost your Search/Disable/Open ranks. DsM has a really crappy skill list.

As far as feats, check the aforementioned links.
JulesCARV
10-04-06, 11:24 PM One fun arcane trickster build for chaotic evil-leaning arcanist types:

rogue 4/bard 1/assassin 5/sublime chord 2/arcane trickster 8.

Unfortunately, heavily dependent on both intelligence and charisma (requires 16 intelligence by level 10, and as much charisma as possible). Gets 9d6 sneak attack and 9th level spells, though.

Also, some important sublime chord prerequisite skills are cross-class for assassins, so able learner is helpful, which is a bit unfortunate for non-humans who would like to be this class (a pity -- because they'd make great evil gnomes).
FriendlyFrog
10-05-06, 01:31 AM There's going to be a PrC that gets full casting progression and some sneak attack in the upcoming Complete mage, the Unseen seer. Here's (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=714651) a thread about what the book has in it.

Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen seer 7/Arcane trickster 8 would cast as a level 19 Wizard and still have 8d6 sneak attack. And it doesn't require any completely useless feats like Daggerspell mage does. Able learner though might still be needed, if you don't like having to max three cross class skills with those Wizard levels, and would like to be able to work as the party Rogue at levels 2-12.
Wire
10-05-06, 01:50 AM I'm interested in building a rogue that utilizes the Arcane Trickster and/or Daggerspell Mage PrCs but honestly don't know much about them. What are good levels to dip into these classes?

Also, what kind of feat progression do you take with this kind of build? Do use metamagic feats to increase your spellcasting, or merely use the spells you have to buff yourself and take feats that enhance your rogueliness?There are 2 primary types of "arcane rogues".

01. The Sneak Attack Damage Monkey

02. The Guile & Subterfuge Spell-&-Skill Manipulator

***

The first one is structured around SA-Enhanced Ray Casting and needs a bunch of archery/missile friendly feats to get optimized. Since damage-causing arcanists are usually the most inefficient from a party synergy perspective (damage is what the Tank, Cleric, and Mobility Combatant do all day long), this route doesn't do much beyond make you feel good when your ranged touch attacks hit flat-footed opponents.

The 2nd route is the more powerful route. When helmed by a creative, rules-savvy player who knows how to use skills, illusions, divinations, enchantment effects, tactical control spells, & party enhancement magics ... the sky is the limit in regards to your full production in and out of combat. Heck, you don't need to be slinging around sneak-attackable Acid Orbs in order to hurt one single target in a given combat. Your magics have a more "strategic" effect on fights - while helping your party circumvent fights while still accumulating XP for the encounter!

So depending upon the route you want to take, your final build can go in a number of different directions. Also, don't discount the Spellthief, Beguiler, Bard/Divine Bard, and other related "arcane rogue" PrC's (Shadowcraft Mage, Divine Prankster, etc.).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ub3rwhiskers 10-04-06, 09:37 PM	I'm interested in building a rogue that utilizes the Arcane Trickster and/or Daggerspell Mage PrCs but honestly don't know much about them. What are good levels to dip into these classes? Also, what kind of feat progression do you take with this kind of build? Do use metamagic feats to increase your spellcasting, or merely use the spells you have to buff yourself and take feats that enhance your rogueliness?
OldManWinter 10-04-06, 10:02 PM	Check out: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=73882 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=609461
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 10-04-06, 10:37 PM	Hmm, well, I've tried to make an Arcane Trickster type build, but in truth, I've found that you can't make it work in the low levels. However, Anima Mage and Binder present some interesting Possibilities in the form of Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike from Andromalius and Malphas. Consider: 1: Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice) 2: Wizard 2 3: Binder (Improved Binding) 4: Anima Mage 1 5: Anima Mage 2 6: Anima Mage 3 7: Anima Mage 4 8: Anima Mage 5 9: Rogue 1 10: Arcane Trickster 1 or 1: Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice) 2: Wizard 2 3: Binder (Improved Binding) 4: Anima Mage 1 5: Anima Mage 2 6: Anima Mage 3 7: Rogue 1 8: Arcane Trickster 1 or 1: Rogue 1 2: Wizard 1 3: Wizard 2 4: Wizard 3 5: Wizard 4 6: Wizard 5 7: Psychic Rogue 1 8: Arcane Trickster 1 or 1: Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice) 2: Wizard 2 3: Binder (Improved Binding) 4: Anima Mage 1 5: Anima Mage 2 6: Anima Mage 3 7: Anima Mage 4 8: Anima Mage 5 9: Anima Mage 6 10: Anima Mage 7 11: Anima Mage 8 12: Arcane Trickster 1 :)
GaffeR 10-04-06, 10:46 PM	Human Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Daggerspell Mage 10/Arcane Trickster 5 (not necessarily in that order, but you need DsM 3 before AT). H. Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) 1. TWF 3. Weapon Focus (Dagger) If you can take flaws, Able Learned is a good choice. Anyways, Practiced Spellcaster gets you into DsM after 5 class levels, which is nice. If you're working the trap-monkey role, you might want to shove in a level of AT every once in a while to boost your Search/Disable/Open ranks. DsM has a really crappy skill list. As far as feats, check the aforementioned links.
JulesCARV 10-04-06, 11:24 PM	One fun arcane trickster build for chaotic evil-leaning arcanist types: rogue 4/bard 1/assassin 5/sublime chord 2/arcane trickster 8. Unfortunately, heavily dependent on both intelligence and charisma (requires 16 intelligence by level 10, and as much charisma as possible). Gets 9d6 sneak attack and 9th level spells, though. Also, some important sublime chord prerequisite skills are cross-class for assassins, so able learner is helpful, which is a bit unfortunate for non-humans who would like to be this class (a pity -- because they'd make great evil gnomes).
FriendlyFrog 10-05-06, 01:31 AM	There's going to be a PrC that gets full casting progression and some sneak attack in the upcoming Complete mage, the Unseen seer. Here's (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=714651) a thread about what the book has in it. Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen seer 7/Arcane trickster 8 would cast as a level 19 Wizard and still have 8d6 sneak attack. And it doesn't require any completely useless feats like Daggerspell mage does. Able learner though might still be needed, if you don't like having to max three cross class skills with those Wizard levels, and would like to be able to work as the party Rogue at levels 2-12.
Wire 10-05-06, 01:50 AM	I'm interested in building a rogue that utilizes the Arcane Trickster and/or Daggerspell Mage PrCs but honestly don't know much about them. What are good levels to dip into these classes? Also, what kind of feat progression do you take with this kind of build? Do use metamagic feats to increase your spellcasting, or merely use the spells you have to buff yourself and take feats that enhance your rogueliness?There are 2 primary types of "arcane rogues". 01. The Sneak Attack Damage Monkey 02. The Guile & Subterfuge Spell-&-Skill Manipulator *** The first one is structured around SA-Enhanced Ray Casting and needs a bunch of archery/missile friendly feats to get optimized. Since damage-causing arcanists are usually the most inefficient from a party synergy perspective (damage is what the Tank, Cleric, and Mobility Combatant do all day long), this route doesn't do much beyond make you feel good when your ranged touch attacks hit flat-footed opponents. The 2nd route is the more powerful route. When helmed by a creative, rules-savvy player who knows how to use skills, illusions, divinations, enchantment effects, tactical control spells, & party enhancement magics ... the sky is the limit in regards to your full production in and out of combat. Heck, you don't need to be slinging around sneak-attackable Acid Orbs in order to hurt one single target in a given combat. Your magics have a more "strategic" effect on fights - while helping your party circumvent fights while still accumulating XP for the encounter! So depending upon the route you want to take, your final build can go in a number of different directions. Also, don't discount the Spellthief, Beguiler, Bard/Divine Bard, and other related "arcane rogue" PrC's (Shadowcraft Mage, Divine Prankster, etc.).