Building an undead army [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building an undead army [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Judging Eagle
09-03-05, 12:14 PM All right, so evil Liches can have armies of undead that stretch from horizon to horizon. The question is, how do they control them?

I know that as a DM i can just say "boom! there's a massive undead army and there's the lich that controls them" and my players will have to just accept it. However I feel like I'm cheating them unless I can give them a good reason to explain why the undead are able to mass in such large numbers and still remain under a single (or a few) undead's control.

The 'best' way I could think of building a character that could do this would be to have actually two characters, one a wizard/lich/pale master (to create massive undead zombies that he can make in infinite amounts thanks to his 10th lvl touch attack (at 3 times a day and with a few large or huge zombies already under his control he could easily keep killing people/slaves/prisoners and making them undead) with corpsecrafter (as well as some of the feats that CC allows you to take, like nimble bones and destruction retribution).

However, giving this wizard/pale maser/lich a cleric companion (who is also, a lich) would probably make this easier. I'm not looking for a specific build, just ideas on how to control the most undead possible.

Oh, and I'd probably give them both undead leadership and have them control ogre or ogre-mage deathknights as their champions. Are there anyways to increase the number of undead followers that someone with the leadership feat can have? I was looking for the thrallherd build since I recall it having a way to get hundreds (if not thousands) of followers, but a site search of the wizard's boards with google didn't really turn anything up except some feats based on the prc.
PhaedrusXY
09-03-05, 12:54 PM Check the True Necro in my sig. :devil: (The Contest Version)
Judging Eagle
09-05-05, 12:22 PM Hmm, that works as a single combatant. Quite powerful since she can turn pretty much any place into a favorable ground for herself, assuming it's above sea level and that there is land nearby (no unusual planes like limbo etc.).

I know that undead leadership will let you get the same effects of leadership except that you can now have undead followers and your cohort (if undead) will always be 2 ECLs lower than yourself (those exact words, not CR, but ECL).

However, what I'm looking for is a way to legitimize having an NPC that can control at least over one thousand undead, if not hundreds of thousands.
PhaedrusXY
09-05-05, 12:34 PM However, what I'm looking for is a way to legitimize having an NPC that can control at least over one thousand undead, if not hundreds of thousands.I think you missed something...
up to 3858 hit dice of Undead, not counting followers and her cohortMake sure you look at the Contest Version, not the other one. I didn't figure it out based on actual numbers of creatures controlled, but she should be able to command over 1000 if she herself only animates low hit dice undead. Her followers could actually control more than one each, if they used scrolls to cast more than one Command Undead per day, also. But making a bunch of low hit die undead is really a waste, as you're much better off going with a smaller number of more powerful ones. Even then, she could field an army of a couple hundred I think.

Edit: Just make a Death Knight. The template is in the Monster Manual 2, and they automatically attract all undead within a certain radius of their home.
Judging Eagle
09-07-05, 05:34 PM Yup, I picked up a copy of mm 2 today (i've had 1 and 3 but i've been waffling over getting 2 for a few months now).

I looked at the contest necro and I see what you mean now.

I guess I should just bite the bullet and make a greater artifact that allows for undead to be raised/controlled. Even an army of ~2000 skeletal undead (or say, 500-ish larger/tougher undead) wouldn't be too large of a threat to an entire nation of trolls/orc/hobgoblins or one of almost all trolls/orgres/giants. On the other hand, once they kill a few larger enemies even if they take casualties they could 'trade-in' weaker undead for larger undead that could become either large skeletons/zombies or hulking corpses.

I know that this 'leader' will make use of Darksteel Golems to 'maintain' their undead armies (DS golems can give off negative energy waves that both heal undead and damage the living). Making awakened zombie clerics (or zombie wizards) to direct the golems in the field ....

Hmm, I've even got a reason why someone who is 'mass-producing' darksteel golems would come into contact with the PCs...heh, heh, Hah! Hahahaha!.

Oh, this is priceless, my players still haven't even cleared out a massive underground (formerly Gnomish) city of Aquatic Troglodyte Infestation.
Lokiyn
09-07-05, 06:41 PM Here is a better idea.
Utilize one of the above builds and then make sure that all those undead are undead that control undead.

For example take the Winterspawn from frostburn. It has the ability to command undead as per a 12th level cleric and is a 12 hd creature. And it provides its own special weapons.
aod318
09-09-05, 11:07 AM There is the excellent epic feat; Undead Mastery, control 10 times your normal HD in undead. There is an 8th lvl cleric spell, I forget the name, that increases your control by 5 times. With Dweomerkeeper, you can cast your undead spells as a supernatural ability, ie no costly spell components.
MikeTheAmazingMuskrat
09-09-05, 12:23 PM Along similar lines to what Lokiyn wrote...

Create Undead and/or control undead that in turn create/control their own spawn. Vampires, wights, wraiths, spectres, mohrgs, shadows, etc etc.

It'll essentially boil down to a basic military command structure- you are the general, the creatures you directly control are your lieutenants, and the undead they control are the warriors. All you need is a PHB and a Monster Manual.

Pow. Angry army of Dooom.

-mike the amazing muskrat
Judging Eagle
09-10-05, 02:50 PM I found an even better way, Death Knights.

Have one be a cohort through undead leadership and then take 2 more lvl 5 and two more lvl 6 death knights (as lietenants), since they can control any number of undead then between 5 death knights and an epic level necromancer (hmm... a gestalt wiz 5/pale master10/archmage 5//evil cleric 15/true necrmancer 5 with undead leadership that commands several death knights and necropolitan wiz/cleric/true necrmancers or wiz/pale masters.

It doesn't really matter that much mechanics-wise, I just needed to have some justification, and with undead leadership and the spell that lets you control 10x your HD (plus of course a sheild and armour of undead control (or triple undead control)) should do the trick.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Judging Eagle 09-03-05, 12:14 PM	All right, so evil Liches can have armies of undead that stretch from horizon to horizon. The question is, how do they control them? I know that as a DM i can just say "boom! there's a massive undead army and there's the lich that controls them" and my players will have to just accept it. However I feel like I'm cheating them unless I can give them a good reason to explain why the undead are able to mass in such large numbers and still remain under a single (or a few) undead's control. The 'best' way I could think of building a character that could do this would be to have actually two characters, one a wizard/lich/pale master (to create massive undead zombies that he can make in infinite amounts thanks to his 10th lvl touch attack (at 3 times a day and with a few large or huge zombies already under his control he could easily keep killing people/slaves/prisoners and making them undead) with corpsecrafter (as well as some of the feats that CC allows you to take, like nimble bones and destruction retribution). However, giving this wizard/pale maser/lich a cleric companion (who is also, a lich) would probably make this easier. I'm not looking for a specific build, just ideas on how to control the most undead possible. Oh, and I'd probably give them both undead leadership and have them control ogre or ogre-mage deathknights as their champions. Are there anyways to increase the number of undead followers that someone with the leadership feat can have? I was looking for the thrallherd build since I recall it having a way to get hundreds (if not thousands) of followers, but a site search of the wizard's boards with google didn't really turn anything up except some feats based on the prc.
PhaedrusXY 09-03-05, 12:54 PM	Check the True Necro in my sig. :devil: (The Contest Version)
Judging Eagle 09-05-05, 12:22 PM	Hmm, that works as a single combatant. Quite powerful since she can turn pretty much any place into a favorable ground for herself, assuming it's above sea level and that there is land nearby (no unusual planes like limbo etc.). I know that undead leadership will let you get the same effects of leadership except that you can now have undead followers and your cohort (if undead) will always be 2 ECLs lower than yourself (those exact words, not CR, but ECL). However, what I'm looking for is a way to legitimize having an NPC that can control at least over one thousand undead, if not hundreds of thousands.
PhaedrusXY 09-05-05, 12:34 PM	However, what I'm looking for is a way to legitimize having an NPC that can control at least over one thousand undead, if not hundreds of thousands.I think you missed something... up to 3858 hit dice of Undead, not counting followers and her cohortMake sure you look at the Contest Version, not the other one. I didn't figure it out based on actual numbers of creatures controlled, but she should be able to command over 1000 if she herself only animates low hit dice undead. Her followers could actually control more than one each, if they used scrolls to cast more than one Command Undead per day, also. But making a bunch of low hit die undead is really a waste, as you're much better off going with a smaller number of more powerful ones. Even then, she could field an army of a couple hundred I think. Edit: Just make a Death Knight. The template is in the Monster Manual 2, and they automatically attract all undead within a certain radius of their home.
Judging Eagle 09-07-05, 05:34 PM	Yup, I picked up a copy of mm 2 today (i've had 1 and 3 but i've been waffling over getting 2 for a few months now). I looked at the contest necro and I see what you mean now. I guess I should just bite the bullet and make a greater artifact that allows for undead to be raised/controlled. Even an army of ~2000 skeletal undead (or say, 500-ish larger/tougher undead) wouldn't be too large of a threat to an entire nation of trolls/orc/hobgoblins or one of almost all trolls/orgres/giants. On the other hand, once they kill a few larger enemies even if they take casualties they could 'trade-in' weaker undead for larger undead that could become either large skeletons/zombies or hulking corpses. I know that this 'leader' will make use of Darksteel Golems to 'maintain' their undead armies (DS golems can give off negative energy waves that both heal undead and damage the living). Making awakened zombie clerics (or zombie wizards) to direct the golems in the field .... Hmm, I've even got a reason why someone who is 'mass-producing' darksteel golems would come into contact with the PCs...heh, heh, Hah! Hahahaha!. Oh, this is priceless, my players still haven't even cleared out a massive underground (formerly Gnomish) city of Aquatic Troglodyte Infestation.
Lokiyn 09-07-05, 06:41 PM	Here is a better idea. Utilize one of the above builds and then make sure that all those undead are undead that control undead. For example take the Winterspawn from frostburn. It has the ability to command undead as per a 12th level cleric and is a 12 hd creature. And it provides its own special weapons.
aod318 09-09-05, 11:07 AM	There is the excellent epic feat; Undead Mastery, control 10 times your normal HD in undead. There is an 8th lvl cleric spell, I forget the name, that increases your control by 5 times. With Dweomerkeeper, you can cast your undead spells as a supernatural ability, ie no costly spell components.
MikeTheAmazingMuskrat 09-09-05, 12:23 PM	Along similar lines to what Lokiyn wrote... Create Undead and/or control undead that in turn create/control their own spawn. Vampires, wights, wraiths, spectres, mohrgs, shadows, etc etc. It'll essentially boil down to a basic military command structure- you are the general, the creatures you directly control are your lieutenants, and the undead they control are the warriors. All you need is a PHB and a Monster Manual. Pow. Angry army of Dooom. -mike the amazing muskrat
Judging Eagle 09-10-05, 02:50 PM	I found an even better way, Death Knights. Have one be a cohort through undead leadership and then take 2 more lvl 5 and two more lvl 6 death knights (as lietenants), since they can control any number of undead then between 5 death knights and an epic level necromancer (hmm... a gestalt wiz 5/pale master10/archmage 5//evil cleric 15/true necrmancer 5 with undead leadership that commands several death knights and necropolitan wiz/cleric/true necrmancers or wiz/pale masters. It doesn't really matter that much mechanics-wise, I just needed to have some justification, and with undead leadership and the spell that lets you control 10x your HD (plus of course a sheild and armour of undead control (or triple undead control)) should do the trick.