Post/Author/DateTime	Post
memno 05-03-05, 03:58 PM	My group has 3 players : Sorc Ranger and a monk. at the end of the game i am running I want them to face off against an Atropal. Unfortunately I looked the mean guy over and realized his dc for his wicked touch attacks are DC(59), How are my players ever going to have saves to allow them to effectively fight this beast? I can see ways for their saves to enter the +20 range if they waste all their feats. Am i missing detail of how to up the players saving throws? It wouldn't be so bad im the Atropal wasnt imune to ability drain.
Interested2 05-03-05, 04:14 PM	Two words: Divine Grace.
PhaedrusXY 05-03-05, 04:22 PM	Edit: Gah, I know there is an item somewhere that makes you immune to all ability drain, but I can't remember where or what it is.
Pinky's brain 05-03-05, 04:28 PM	Any chance they can keep buffs up? Shapechange, kelemvor's grace, undead's eternal foe and veil of undeath can all give immunity to ability drain. What was that armor again which protected against energy drain? Did that also protect against ability drain?
Aramek 05-03-05, 04:28 PM	If you allow custom magic items, then there is a good way to make their saves astronomical. Note, this is a magic item, and such, can be Disjoined, but it is a good item. We all know epic is awfully expensive. A Cape a Resistance +10, a handy item, is at a great 1,000,000 gold! (10x10x1000x10). Well, the better way to make an item, is to stack multiple different enchantments. The DMG gives rules for stacking multiple things, and multiple types of enhancements. For instance... +5 (Enchantment) +5 Luck +5 Insight +5 Competence +5 Sacred (Profane) +5 Exalted (Vile) This item would be a grand total of 525,000! +5 Enchantment (Base) [25,000] +5 Luck [100,000] (5x5x2000) x2 because of higher value. +5 Insight [100,000] (5x5x2000) x2 because of higher value. +5 Competence [100,000] (5x5x2000) x2 because of higher value. +5 Sacred (Profane) [100,000] (5x5x2000) x2 because of higher value. +5 Exalted (Vile) [100,000] (5x5x2000) x2 because of higher value. One heckuva deal for a +30 to all saves. :angel:
rilem 05-03-05, 04:44 PM	Your best bet is to go with immunities rather than simple save boosting. Hunter of the Dead or Skullclan hunter might offer energy- or ability-drain protection. Soulfire Armor (BoED) gives negative energy and death-effect protecion, but I don't think it works on ability drain.
MechaboyDos 05-03-05, 05:00 PM	The Sacred Vitality feat from Libris Mortis allows you to burn a Turn attempt and become immune to all ability damage and energy drain for 1 minute. Since Turn attempts won't do **** against the Atropal anyway, I think that would be a rather good use for them.
PhaedrusXY 05-03-05, 05:02 PM	Well, to be facing a CR 30, they should be close to level 30 themselves. Even a very simple character with one core class and one prestige class will have a base save of +14 if both their base class and PrC have that particular save as a "good" save". Then add on +5 Epic save bonus for being level 30, and at least +5 from a Cloak of Resistance. Then if they're a Palladin, or some other class with Cha to saves, they should have a Cha of around 36 by then. That's another +13, for a total of +37, and doesn't include the normal ability score modifier to the save (Con to Fort., Dex to Reflex, etc). A level 30 Palladin should have a Con score of at least 30 I'd think, for another +10 to Fort., bringing the total to +47. And that wasn't really trying that hard to maximize saves. If it is on a character who knows they don't have good saves, they should focus on having immunities. Heck, all epic characters should be loaded up with immunities, but especially those with poor saves. And Epic spellcasters can develop Epic spells to grant them immunities or huge bonuses to saves.
thorian 05-03-05, 07:11 PM	The Soulfire armor enhancement does not specifically protect against ability drain. The easiest way to protect yourself is to use the Sheltered Vitality spell from Libris Mortis. It is a 3rd level cleric or 4th level druid spell which grants immunity to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability damage or drain.
slade_caizer 05-03-05, 09:33 PM	I always loved threatening my players with the Atropal. It's such a darling little critter. :D My players cried so much I didn't have the heart to sick a divine rank 0 beastie on them. As for the saves...ouch. Let's see... Paladin2(LE)/Monk4/FavoredSoul8/DiscipleofMephistopheles6 Use Ascetic Knight if you feel like bothering...probably not. Saves will be: Fort: 3 + 4 + 6 + 5 = 18 Ref: 0 + 4 + 6 + 5 = 15 Will: 0 + 4 + 6 + 5 = 15 These are before adding charisma and equipment. A good Cloak of Resistance and the bonus from epic levels should help. Ultimately though, I think the sorcerer needs to get a staff and look up spells from Libris Mortis. There's a higher level spell that gives you undead traits and immunities (and a few weaknesses). You would probably gain a benefit from quite a few of the Atropal's qualities and should be immune to ability damage. I believe it was Veil of Undeath or something. If not it was like Kiss of the Night--although I think that was a vampire-flavored one. My memory's a little fuzzy here. At any rate, like already said, make sure your players are leveled appropriately and seek out immunities. The real trick in epic is having rediculous saves ONLY when you cannot become immune. Although if any of your players feel like becoming an undead and taking Positive Energy Immunity they certainly can... It cures many ills.