Building Mr. Happy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building Mr. Happy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Abulafia
01-11-07, 04:36 PM I'm starting a campaign next week that's going to be DM'd by a friend and longtime player of mine (we'll call him "Jerry"). Jerry has long enjoyed presenting me with rules dilemmas and problematic builds. He also likes to rant about how unintuitive, restrictive, and stupid the alignment system is. Accordingly, he has announced in advance that alignment will play no part in his campaign.

I want to play a prank on Jerry and present him with the most alignment-confused character build I can make. Specifically, I want to combine as many different rage/frenzy/fury/alternate form abilities as possible to create a character who goes absolutely apescat once all of his switches are flipped.

[Please note that this build combines 3.0 & 3.5 material, as well as haphazardly mixing setting-specific material. It is also, as noted, created as a joke.]

I present to you Mr. Happy:

Race: Goliath
Starting Abilities (32-pt buy): Str 22 Con 18 Dex 10 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 8.

The build (so far):

Level 1: Goliath Barbarian 1 -- Mountain Rage 1/day (+8* to Str); Iron Will
2: Fighter 1 -- Power Attack
3: Fighter 2 -- Cleave; Destructive Rage
4: Monk 1 -- Improved Unarmed Strike
5: Monk 2 -- Ki Shout (OA martial arts feat rules)
6: Sohei 1 -- Ki Frenzy 1/day (+2 to Str); WF (Greataxe); Intimidating Rage
7: Berserk 1 -- Battle Fury 1/day (+6 to Str)
8: Frenzied Berserker 1 -- Frenzy 1/day (+6 Str, +10 at level 20)
9-10: Singh Rager 1-2 -- Reckless Rage*, Lion's Fury 3/day (+6* Str)
11-13: Tiger Shen 1-3 -- Tiger Hybrid Form 1/day (+4 Str); Monkey Grip
14-20: Frenzied Berserker 2-8 -- Greater Frenzy 4/day (+10 Str)

At 20th level, with all of his switches flipped, Mr. Happy enjoys a total rage/frenzy/other bonus of +36. With 5 points of leveled stat increases, a +6 belt, and a +5 book, he'll total out around 74 Strength. I'll probably outfit him a Huge greataxe and (necessarily) a troubled past.

Questions:

1. Better choices for equipment/feats/classes/race? Assume everything is legal -- this is just to get a rise out of Jerry, anyway. Isn't there a weapon ability that increases the strength bonus from rage?

2. I'm assuming Reckless Rage works on all "rage" abilities (i.e., Mountain Rage and the Singh Rager's fury ability, which is described as a rage in the text) as indicated with asterisks, but not on other similar abilities (FB's frenzy, Berserk's Battle Fury). Does this seem right?

3. Am I evil? ;)
PhaedrusXY
01-11-07, 04:49 PM 2. I'm assuming Reckless Rage works on all "rage" abilities (i.e., Mountain Rage and the Singh Rager's fury ability, which is described as a rage in the text) as indicated with asterisks, but not on other similar abilities (FB's frenzy, Berserk's Battle Fury). Does this seem right?What you're really assuming is that these abilities are all the same as far as the feat, but different as far as whether they stack or not. I don't like that at all. They either should be considered the same for all purposes, or different for all purposes.

I think some of them are clearly different (Sohei vs. Barbarian Rage), and that others are the same (Barbarian Rage vs. Singh Rager's Frenzy), and that they should be dealt with on a case by case basis, in a consistent manner.

In general, I think you're intentionally trying to build a disruptive character because you disagree with your friends ideas about the game rules. If you think that's funny, and think he will too, fine. I don't find it particularly funny.
Abulafia
01-11-07, 05:29 PM What you're really assuming is that these abilities are all the same as far as the feat, but different as far as whether they stack or not. I don't like that at all. They either should be considered the same for all purposes, or different for all purposes.Good point. I suppose the better case for me to make would be that Lion's Fury is different, and therefore wouldn't get the Reckless Rage bonus. Does that make Reckless Rage not worth it?

In general, I think you're intentionally trying to build a disruptive character because you disagree with your friends ideas about the game rules. If you think that's funny, and think he will too, fine. I don't find it particularly funny.Well, your unsolicited and insulting opinion on my intentions and sense of humor is duly noted. :rolleyes:

I have no intention of actually playing Mr. Happy, or otherwise disrupting the game. I just want to run him by Jerry as if I was going to play him. You know, as a joke. Sometimes people do things for fun. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with this concept.

Does anyone not currently in need of a diaper change have anything to add?
Sharp_Claw
01-11-07, 05:40 PM Does anyone not currently in need of a diaper change have anything to add?
Uncalled for. Phaedrus was not hostile, merely offering his opinion. To call his opinion "unsolicited" (as you so do) is to put into question the very idea of you posting here.

And to be fair, all you said was that you wanted to "present" the character to your DM. That could mean play him.
Sheez
01-11-07, 05:47 PM I'll agree with Sharp Claw. Phaedrus brought legitimate concerns to your attention. Insulting the folk around here when they offer opinions is not going to get people to help you.

That said, not to derail the thread, is this intended as a twenty-level build? Might I suggest: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287566. Currently listed by Funny Slaughter as having the highest strength (outside of infinite loop builds.) which you would have seen checking through the important threads index.

A good way to have a high, persistant strength though much of it seems to be items and template stacking.
Abulafia
01-11-07, 06:22 PM Uncalled for. Phaedrus was not hostile, merely offering his opinion.You're right. Although it was meant in jest, I was a little out of line there. Sorry, Phaedrus.
Abulafia
01-11-07, 06:33 PM [. . .]is this intended as a twenty-level build? Might I suggest: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287566. Currently listed by Funny Slaughter as having the highest strength (outside of infinite loop builds.) which you would have seen checking through the important threads index.

A good way to have a high, persistant strength though much of it seems to be items and template stacking.Thanks for the link -- I'm really looking to max strength through combining as many rage-like effects as possible. I thought about adding a cleric level for a scroll of Righteous Might, but it didn't seem to fit the concept.

I did check the important threads list (looking for a collection of rage-like abilities).

I'd like to work in the Wildrunner's Primal Scream ability as well, but the racial requirement precludes using the goliath's Mountain Rage ability.
DaveTheMagicWeasel
01-11-07, 07:31 PM The CO boards aren't really the place for alignment debates, but I've been largely ignoring alignment when I DM for a while, since I find it very frustrating how restrictive the system is, how it straitjackets playstyle - the Lawful Stupid Paladin, the "Steal owt that isn't nailed down" Chaotic Neutral Rogue, the "Evil badass who sacrifices all the villages children because you know, he's eeeevil!" (or rather, because the player couldn't think of anything to do so took the easy option). After all, "I'm just playing my alignment!". Which is by far the most annoying phrase I've ever heard in any game of D&D.

There is nothing thematically impossible about a lawful barbarian, tied closely to a code of honour who releases his anger in controlled bursts, or a Neutral Good Paladin who chooses to focus on the greater good at the expense of the letter of the law, a Chaotic Evil Druid bent on revenge against the civilized world that so despoils his natural paradise, etc

Mostly, its a hamfisted balance mechanism, whereby they tack on codes of conduct and alignment restrictions to classes that are otherwise powerful. And it fails even at that (the crap-tastic core Paladin 20 being a prime case in point).

However, and here's my point, your build isn't a joke on the removal of alignment restrictions, its an exercise in stacking of rages with some alignment issues. Frankly, I think it proves the DMs point that alignment serves no real function. Personally, I have no issue with a chaotic monk (even Dragon printed a Chaos Monk), and there's nothing intrinsically lawful about Singh Rager to my mind, some designer was obviously just a bit ****** off that he couldn't get rage for his monk so decided he'd fix it. Don't get me wrong, I love the class, and I wish they'd make the core barbarian more similar to it.

Now, if you really want to make this alignment joke character, I suggest you use the rule to make the most optimized character you can. The most over the top way of doing that would be to combine BoED stuff with BoVD stuff. I'm sure there's some amazing combos that could be put together by combining the two.

Or even create a melee monster with abilities that were never intended to stack - a Bard / Monk / Barbarian / Paladin / Blackguard / Hexblade for example. With Versatile Unarmed Strike, Snowflake Wardance and Divine Might, combined with flurry and TWF it could get quite powerful.

Though having said that, it wouldn't really be broken, and with the exception of the Paladin-Blackguard mix I personally would have no problem with that as a character concept.

So, long story short, I'm with your DM on this one.

Or, to respond to your build from a CO perspective - 74 Strength? And you can do this, what, like once per day with all that dipping?

If you think thats gonna show your DM that removing alignment is unbalanced then you're sadly mistaken.

*Ahem* [/rant]

Disclaimer: None of the above is meant personally, or as a flame. Its just some dude off the internets' tuppences worth.
Endarire
01-11-07, 10:29 PM If you really wanted to mix alignments, combine ur-priest with lion of talsid or exalted arcanist with cancer mage. while these aren't warriors, I'm otherwise unsure how to help on building an alignment-mixing warrior.

-EE
PhaedrusXY
01-11-07, 10:38 PM You're right. Although it was meant in jest, I was a little out of line there. Sorry, Phaedrus.No problem. I was a bit rough in my first critique. However, I have a fresh diaper now, so I feel alot better. :P

I guess the reason I was a bit harsh is that I largely agree with your friend, and DaveTheMagicWeasel. I hate alignment restrictions, see them as unnecessary, and don't think they have any merit at all as "balancing factors". You are having to go way out of your way to even find something abusive, and what you've come up with isn't even that bad. There are alot more abusive characters possible that follow the alignment restrictions even if you stay within the core rules. So you're not really proving anything, IMO.
Valdrax
01-11-07, 11:34 PM I'd much rather do something horrible like Paladin 2 / Barbarian 1 / Monk 1 / Thrall of Jubilex 1-5 / Ur-Priest 1 / Fist of Raziel 1-7 / Thrall of Jubilex 6-8

Feats: 1st -- Sacred Vow (BoED), Vow of Poverty (BoED), Thrall to Demon (BoVD), Willing Deformity (BoVD) (one from human, 2 from flaws); 2nd -- Nymph's Kiss (BoED); 3rd -- Power Attack; 4th -- Servant of the Heavens (BoED); 6th -- Iron Will, Righteous Wrath (BoED); 8th -- Hands of a Healer (BoED); 9th -- Spell Focus (evil) (CDiv); 10th -- Sanctify Ki Strike (BoED); 12th -- Claws of the Beast (FC1), Holy Ki Strike (BoED); 14th -- Touch of Golden Ice (BoED); 15th -- Eyes of the Abyss (FC1); 16th -- Gift of Grace (BoED); 18th -- Necrotic Cyst (LM), Nimbus of Light (BoED); 20th -- Consecrate Spell (BoED)

BAB +18, F/R/W Saves +17/+11/+13; Casts as Ur-Priest 7, Vow of Poverty cheese, monk abilities, rage 1/day, fast movement, detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands, many irrelevant but gross / cool Thrall of Jubilex slime/summoning powers, polymorph self (sp) at will, Fist of Raziel smite evil chain up to fiendsmite, constant magic circle against evil, capable of casting consecrated necrotic cyst spells, ludicrous number of exalted feats, etc.

Conflicts
Paladin -- Must be LG
Barbarian -- Can't be Lawful
Monk -- Must be Lawful
Thrall of Jubilex -- Must be Evil and in service of Chaotic Evil Demon Prince
Ur-Priest -- Must be Evil
Fist of Raziel -- Must be Lawful Good
Exalted Feats -- Must be Good
Vile Feats -- Must be Evil
Abyssal Heritor Feats -- Must be Chaotic
FntsyWlkr
01-18-07, 08:07 PM Man ... I DIG your character design.

I think you should add a little flavor;
- unarmed /grappler
- the patterns on his skin coincidentaly resemble a middle finger
- he has a drinking problem
- he has a hearing problem
- he hates when people say he has a drinking problem

LOL!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Abulafia 01-11-07, 04:36 PM	I'm starting a campaign next week that's going to be DM'd by a friend and longtime player of mine (we'll call him "Jerry"). Jerry has long enjoyed presenting me with rules dilemmas and problematic builds. He also likes to rant about how unintuitive, restrictive, and stupid the alignment system is. Accordingly, he has announced in advance that alignment will play no part in his campaign. I want to play a prank on Jerry and present him with the most alignment-confused character build I can make. Specifically, I want to combine as many different rage/frenzy/fury/alternate form abilities as possible to create a character who goes absolutely apescat once all of his switches are flipped. [Please note that this build combines 3.0 & 3.5 material, as well as haphazardly mixing setting-specific material. It is also, as noted, created as a joke.] I present to you Mr. Happy: Race: Goliath Starting Abilities (32-pt buy): Str 22 Con 18 Dex 10 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 8. The build (so far): Level 1: Goliath Barbarian 1 -- Mountain Rage 1/day (+8* to Str); Iron Will 2: Fighter 1 -- Power Attack 3: Fighter 2 -- Cleave; Destructive Rage 4: Monk 1 -- Improved Unarmed Strike 5: Monk 2 -- Ki Shout (OA martial arts feat rules) 6: Sohei 1 -- Ki Frenzy 1/day (+2 to Str); WF (Greataxe); Intimidating Rage 7: Berserk 1 -- Battle Fury 1/day (+6 to Str) 8: Frenzied Berserker 1 -- Frenzy 1/day (+6 Str, +10 at level 20) 9-10: Singh Rager 1-2 -- Reckless Rage, Lion's Fury 3/day (+6 Str) 11-13: Tiger Shen 1-3 -- Tiger Hybrid Form 1/day (+4 Str); Monkey Grip 14-20: Frenzied Berserker 2-8 -- Greater Frenzy 4/day (+10 Str) At 20th level, with all of his switches flipped, Mr. Happy enjoys a total rage/frenzy/other bonus of +36. With 5 points of leveled stat increases, a +6 belt, and a +5 book, he'll total out around 74 Strength. I'll probably outfit him a Huge greataxe and (necessarily) a troubled past. Questions: 1. Better choices for equipment/feats/classes/race? Assume everything is legal -- this is just to get a rise out of Jerry, anyway. Isn't there a weapon ability that increases the strength bonus from rage? 2. I'm assuming Reckless Rage works on all "rage" abilities (i.e., Mountain Rage and the Singh Rager's fury ability, which is described as a rage in the text) as indicated with asterisks, but not on other similar abilities (FB's frenzy, Berserk's Battle Fury). Does this seem right? 3. Am I evil? ;)
PhaedrusXY 01-11-07, 04:49 PM	2. I'm assuming Reckless Rage works on all "rage" abilities (i.e., Mountain Rage and the Singh Rager's fury ability, which is described as a rage in the text) as indicated with asterisks, but not on other similar abilities (FB's frenzy, Berserk's Battle Fury). Does this seem right?What you're really assuming is that these abilities are all the same as far as the feat, but different as far as whether they stack or not. I don't like that at all. They either should be considered the same for all purposes, or different for all purposes. I think some of them are clearly different (Sohei vs. Barbarian Rage), and that others are the same (Barbarian Rage vs. Singh Rager's Frenzy), and that they should be dealt with on a case by case basis, in a consistent manner. In general, I think you're intentionally trying to build a disruptive character because you disagree with your friends ideas about the game rules. If you think that's funny, and think he will too, fine. I don't find it particularly funny.
Abulafia 01-11-07, 05:29 PM	What you're really assuming is that these abilities are all the same as far as the feat, but different as far as whether they stack or not. I don't like that at all. They either should be considered the same for all purposes, or different for all purposes.Good point. I suppose the better case for me to make would be that Lion's Fury is different, and therefore wouldn't get the Reckless Rage bonus. Does that make Reckless Rage not worth it? In general, I think you're intentionally trying to build a disruptive character because you disagree with your friends ideas about the game rules. If you think that's funny, and think he will too, fine. I don't find it particularly funny.Well, your unsolicited and insulting opinion on my intentions and sense of humor is duly noted. :rolleyes: I have no intention of actually playing Mr. Happy, or otherwise disrupting the game. I just want to run him by Jerry as if I was going to play him. You know, as a joke. Sometimes people do things for fun. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with this concept. Does anyone not currently in need of a diaper change have anything to add?
Sharp_Claw 01-11-07, 05:40 PM	Does anyone not currently in need of a diaper change have anything to add? Uncalled for. Phaedrus was not hostile, merely offering his opinion. To call his opinion "unsolicited" (as you so do) is to put into question the very idea of you posting here. And to be fair, all you said was that you wanted to "present" the character to your DM. That could mean play him.
Sheez 01-11-07, 05:47 PM	I'll agree with Sharp Claw. Phaedrus brought legitimate concerns to your attention. Insulting the folk around here when they offer opinions is not going to get people to help you. That said, not to derail the thread, is this intended as a twenty-level build? Might I suggest: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287566. Currently listed by Funny Slaughter as having the highest strength (outside of infinite loop builds.) which you would have seen checking through the important threads index. A good way to have a high, persistant strength though much of it seems to be items and template stacking.
Abulafia 01-11-07, 06:22 PM	Uncalled for. Phaedrus was not hostile, merely offering his opinion.You're right. Although it was meant in jest, I was a little out of line there. Sorry, Phaedrus.
Abulafia 01-11-07, 06:33 PM	[. . .]is this intended as a twenty-level build? Might I suggest: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287566. Currently listed by Funny Slaughter as having the highest strength (outside of infinite loop builds.) which you would have seen checking through the important threads index. A good way to have a high, persistant strength though much of it seems to be items and template stacking.Thanks for the link -- I'm really looking to max strength through combining as many rage-like effects as possible. I thought about adding a cleric level for a scroll of Righteous Might, but it didn't seem to fit the concept. I did check the important threads list (looking for a collection of rage-like abilities). I'd like to work in the Wildrunner's Primal Scream ability as well, but the racial requirement precludes using the goliath's Mountain Rage ability.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 01-11-07, 07:31 PM	The CO boards aren't really the place for alignment debates, but I've been largely ignoring alignment when I DM for a while, since I find it very frustrating how restrictive the system is, how it straitjackets playstyle - the Lawful Stupid Paladin, the "Steal owt that isn't nailed down" Chaotic Neutral Rogue, the "Evil badass who sacrifices all the villages children because you know, he's eeeevil!" (or rather, because the player couldn't think of anything to do so took the easy option). After all, "I'm just playing my alignment!". Which is by far the most annoying phrase I've ever heard in any game of D&D. There is nothing thematically impossible about a lawful barbarian, tied closely to a code of honour who releases his anger in controlled bursts, or a Neutral Good Paladin who chooses to focus on the greater good at the expense of the letter of the law, a Chaotic Evil Druid bent on revenge against the civilized world that so despoils his natural paradise, etc Mostly, its a hamfisted balance mechanism, whereby they tack on codes of conduct and alignment restrictions to classes that are otherwise powerful. And it fails even at that (the crap-tastic core Paladin 20 being a prime case in point). However, and here's my point, your build isn't a joke on the removal of alignment restrictions, its an exercise in stacking of rages with some alignment issues. Frankly, I think it proves the DMs point that alignment serves no real function. Personally, I have no issue with a chaotic monk (even Dragon printed a Chaos Monk), and there's nothing intrinsically lawful about Singh Rager to my mind, some designer was obviously just a bit ****** off that he couldn't get rage for his monk so decided he'd fix it. Don't get me wrong, I love the class, and I wish they'd make the core barbarian more similar to it. Now, if you really want to make this alignment joke character, I suggest you use the rule to make the most optimized character you can. The most over the top way of doing that would be to combine BoED stuff with BoVD stuff. I'm sure there's some amazing combos that could be put together by combining the two. Or even create a melee monster with abilities that were never intended to stack - a Bard / Monk / Barbarian / Paladin / Blackguard / Hexblade for example. With Versatile Unarmed Strike, Snowflake Wardance and Divine Might, combined with flurry and TWF it could get quite powerful. Though having said that, it wouldn't really be broken, and with the exception of the Paladin-Blackguard mix I personally would have no problem with that as a character concept. So, long story short, I'm with your DM on this one. Or, to respond to your build from a CO perspective - 74 Strength? And you can do this, what, like once per day with all that dipping? If you think thats gonna show your DM that removing alignment is unbalanced then you're sadly mistaken. Ahem [/rant] Disclaimer: None of the above is meant personally, or as a flame. Its just some dude off the internets' tuppences worth.
Endarire 01-11-07, 10:29 PM	If you really wanted to mix alignments, combine ur-priest with lion of talsid or exalted arcanist with cancer mage. while these aren't warriors, I'm otherwise unsure how to help on building an alignment-mixing warrior. -EE
PhaedrusXY 01-11-07, 10:38 PM	You're right. Although it was meant in jest, I was a little out of line there. Sorry, Phaedrus.No problem. I was a bit rough in my first critique. However, I have a fresh diaper now, so I feel alot better. :P I guess the reason I was a bit harsh is that I largely agree with your friend, and DaveTheMagicWeasel. I hate alignment restrictions, see them as unnecessary, and don't think they have any merit at all as "balancing factors". You are having to go way out of your way to even find something abusive, and what you've come up with isn't even that bad. There are alot more abusive characters possible that follow the alignment restrictions even if you stay within the core rules. So you're not really proving anything, IMO.
Valdrax 01-11-07, 11:34 PM	I'd much rather do something horrible like Paladin 2 / Barbarian 1 / Monk 1 / Thrall of Jubilex 1-5 / Ur-Priest 1 / Fist of Raziel 1-7 / Thrall of Jubilex 6-8 Feats: 1st -- Sacred Vow (BoED), Vow of Poverty (BoED), Thrall to Demon (BoVD), Willing Deformity (BoVD) (one from human, 2 from flaws); 2nd -- Nymph's Kiss (BoED); 3rd -- Power Attack; 4th -- Servant of the Heavens (BoED); 6th -- Iron Will, Righteous Wrath (BoED); 8th -- Hands of a Healer (BoED); 9th -- Spell Focus (evil) (CDiv); 10th -- Sanctify Ki Strike (BoED); 12th -- Claws of the Beast (FC1), Holy Ki Strike (BoED); 14th -- Touch of Golden Ice (BoED); 15th -- Eyes of the Abyss (FC1); 16th -- Gift of Grace (BoED); 18th -- Necrotic Cyst (LM), Nimbus of Light (BoED); 20th -- Consecrate Spell (BoED) BAB +18, F/R/W Saves +17/+11/+13; Casts as Ur-Priest 7, Vow of Poverty cheese, monk abilities, rage 1/day, fast movement, detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands, many irrelevant but gross / cool Thrall of Jubilex slime/summoning powers, polymorph self (sp) at will, Fist of Raziel smite evil chain up to fiendsmite, constant magic circle against evil, capable of casting consecrated necrotic cyst spells, ludicrous number of exalted feats, etc. Conflicts Paladin -- Must be LG Barbarian -- Can't be Lawful Monk -- Must be Lawful Thrall of Jubilex -- Must be Evil and in service of Chaotic Evil Demon Prince Ur-Priest -- Must be Evil Fist of Raziel -- Must be Lawful Good Exalted Feats -- Must be Good Vile Feats -- Must be Evil Abyssal Heritor Feats -- Must be Chaotic
FntsyWlkr 01-18-07, 08:07 PM	Man ... I DIG your character design. I think you should add a little flavor; - unarmed /grappler - the patterns on his skin coincidentaly resemble a middle finger - he has a drinking problem - he has a hearing problem - he hates when people say he has a drinking problem LOL!