Builds for intrigue campaign... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Builds for intrigue campaign... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ivarrius
02-07-06, 01:03 PM Hey Folks,

My DM and I are looking at doing a single player campaign, without gestalt (because I the player find it cheesy) and were looking to work on a campaign built on intrigue, assassination, much like a medieval version of James Bond/Bourne Supremacy.

What I am hoping to have great ability in is mobility (Tumble, Jump, and climb especially) and dealing a large amount of damage quickly (via death attack, Sneak attack dice, TWF or spells) and fairly good charisma related skills.

I am sure you all understand roughly the type of cahracter I am looking for, now for restrictions.

Races: Either Elven or Human.
Campaign Setting: Faerun
Alignment : Any, really.
Max PrC's: Around 3 I would say Maximum.
Ability Scores: High powered - 18, 16, 14, 12, 12, 10 (Single palyer needs the advantage)
Starting level: Likely around 7, but the build can be for 20 levels.

Any help you guys have would be great. I checked through the Optimization Library, specifically under rogue, and didn't find exactly what i was looking for, and a few links were broken, leaving me to wonder what I might have been missing.

Thanks in advance folks.
cvazi
02-07-06, 08:42 PM I have been trying to figure something out for this. . .

So far I have been thinking:
Incarnate4, rogue3
incarnate 2, rogue 2, monk 3
bard 5, mindbender1, bard 1

Mostly I have been focusing on trying to get the feat mindsight (LoM) in there, since that would rock in an espionage game. The other thing I have been trying to do is give you an unarmed attack/make your own weapon attack so you can go from well dressed civilian to butt kicker without any start up. In order to take out an opponent quickly and silently I was thinking reaping mauler. But that can only eliminate one enemy at the time. If there are 2 guards, you will need to stunning fist in order to stop the second guard from calling an alarm. Another idea would be to use psionics so you can manifest without displays. That would add a level of espionage feel (like a silenced pistal). warlock would also be an interesting maneuver.

Do any of these ideas sound interesting?
Caelic
02-07-06, 08:45 PM While probably not the best candidate for the James Bond role, a Warlock/Mindbender can make a DANDY Bond-style villain. Permanantly charmed thugs, phenomenal Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Intimidate, the ability to teleport behind closed doors and read minds...

Good stuff. Not an engine of destruction, but a great intrigue character.
Ivarrius
02-07-06, 09:08 PM Cvazi - Yes I like the idea of being able to fight unarmed, and was considering Monk in there somehow. Stunning fist would be great in the build to be sure. I have to be honest however, I am not sure where Incarnate is from, as I haven't had the money to keep up with all the books.

I like the idea of Monk alot, not for the aesthetic sort of guy, the religious style monk, but the Martial Arts Expert, capable of great feats of both strength and dexterity. Hmm.. perhaps a Monk Oriented build, with some levels of Rogue tossed in for some extra damage (sneak attack). What about getting to Dimension Door in HW too? Is that even Possible?

Caelic - I agree, great villain, not so great for the single PC. I will mention it to the DM in case he wants to use the idea.

Now, Are spells even needed for this type of Character? The more I look at special abilities and skills, I find he might do well enough without them. Any further advice?

I am coming to you guys for power without broken-ness. Hopefully we can come up with something that can survive as well as perform.

Edit - What about Rogue 3/Monk 4/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 8/?? X
Shadow_Gryphon
02-07-06, 10:48 PM I find myself constantly promoting the following build, so I may sound like a broken record to many of the regulars here: go with a Monk1 or 2/Rogue18 or 19. Take the feats Ascetic Rogue, Improved Natural Attack, Unbalancing Strike (from OA) and then add on others depending on your taste (for this kind of character I would suggest Weapon Finesse and Improved Initiative, and to emphasize Dexterity as hiding will be quite useful). You'll do Monk damage with your unarmed strikes (with size increases due to INA, a Fanged Ring, Enlarge Person spell, Quori Limb, etc), and add Sneak Attack damage as well. You can inflict this damage with no items at all, which is quite nice if you are going in disguise. Prioritize Dex, Int, Cha, Con, Str, Wis, or something along those lines.

You might also take the Kung Fu Genius feat so that your stunning attacks and AC are dependent on your Int rather than your Wis.

Voila! A secret agent with great skills and the ability to be deadly at any and all points, without ever seeming threatening.
Surreal
02-07-06, 11:58 PM While probably not the best candidate for the James Bond role, a Warlock/Mindbender can make a DANDY Bond-style villain. Permanantly charmed thugs, phenomenal Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Intimidate, the ability to teleport behind closed doors and read minds...

Good stuff. Not an engine of destruction, but a great intrigue character.
Throw on some levels of Cabinet Trickster too.

Now can someone tell me why the heck Warlock doesn't have diplomacy as a class skill? (I just house-rule it in)
ZeroEffect
02-08-06, 04:03 AM You'll want to have a good Int for skill points and Dex for stealth and combat. Start with Rogue and take at least 3 levels. Take 3 levels to Swashbuckler to get Weapon Finesse and your Int mod to damage. Take 2 levels of Fighter or Psychic Warrior to get feats. Take 2 levels of Ranger if you want Track and the fighting style. The Urban Ranger variant from Unearthed Arcana lets you use Gather Information to track people in a city, but you lose wilderness abilities. I like the Horizon Walker idea if you can stomach the 5 levels before you get the cool Dimension Door ability. Consider the Telflammar Shadowlord prestige class for the cool shadow abilities and death attack. It'll be hard to fit Telf. Shadowlord and Horizon Walker into the same build. Check out the Ninja Spy prestige class from Oriental Adventures; it gives some really awesome bonuses to Jumping, Tumbling, etc. Once again, you'll be hard pressed to fit it into the build if you take lots of other prestige class levels. Take 5 levels of Master Thrower if you want to throw daggers. Lastly, consider taking 2 levels in Bayushi Deciever from Oriental Adventures, for Int mod to Init, and the Imp. Init. feat. Acting first means you'll be able to kill your foes before they get to act, or if they're too tough for you to face, it'll allow you to flee. If you end up with lots of sneak attack dice, take the Craven feat. I'd try to stick with a neutral alignment so you can't be detected by Detect Evil.

You're not going to be able to fit all of my suggestions into a build so you'll have to pick and choose what you want:

Base Classes:
Rogue 3+
Ranger 2 (3 if you go into Horizon Walker)
Fighter 2
Psychic Warrior 2
Swashbuckler 3

Prestige Classes:
Bayushi Deceiver 2
Horizon Walker 6+ (best powers are Dim. Door and Tremorsense)
Ninja Spy 1-10
Master Thrower 5 (Palm Throw and Weak Spot)
Telflammar Shadowlord 6 (Shadowlord template +1 LA)
PonTelon
02-08-06, 02:42 PM I'm suprised no one has mentioned Thief Acrobat from Complete Adventurer yet. It's a wonderful class that fits with your style very well. In fact, most of the PrCs from that book would fit pretty well.
Ivarrius
02-08-06, 05:39 PM All great ideas.

I am liking the idea of lots of sneak attack dice, as I believe this campaign will be dealing with NPC's and BBEG's that are susceptible to the damage. Also, high skill points are going to be needed. So yes, Rogue levels for sure.

The more I look at monk, the more I find 'Lawful' will be a difficult alignment to play, and keep, so perhaps ditching Monk for more levels of either rogue, or adding in Fighter, for extra feats, which will be slightly lacking.

About thief acrobat - I don't have CV with me at the moment, but does it advance most or all of a rogues skill list as well? Also, what is the name of the feat that allows you to add a further bonus to initiative: I remember the feat desc, but not the name - "You are one jittery person" or something similar.

edit - maxing out the use of Int and Dex are key, so Swashbuckler is great, as is Rogue and the skills associated. Fighter for feats (maybe 2 - 4 levels max (weapon spec would be nice, but unneccessary)) and anything adding to initiative. HW's early abilities do well to add +'s to hide, move silently and another skill I can't remember at the time, making it a decent choice, even for its early levels.

Thanks for the help folks!
Ivarrius
02-08-06, 09:04 PM I hate to double post, but are there any feats that are absolutely necessary, or things I would be silly NOT to take?

Craven sounds interesting for sure, any others?
ZeroEffect
02-08-06, 09:23 PM Improved Initiative. (yeah, I'm a broken record ;) )

I'm sure there are other feats that improve on sneak attack damage. Maybe others can make some suggestions.
ZeroEffect
02-08-06, 09:32 PM Fighter for feats (maybe 2 - 4 levels max (weapon spec would be nice, but unneccessary)) and anything adding to initiative.

I wouldn't even think about taking Weapon Spec. It's not worth it. If you want more feats than 2 levels of Fighter offers, consider a level or two of Psychic Warrior.

Int to damage from Swa and a decent Str will serve you nicely.

I want to play a Horizon Walker badly too. I wish someone would start a new campaign so I can make one! :D

Definitely check out the Telflammar Shadowlord in Unapproachable East. It has an ability that lets you do a full-attack action immediately after dimension dooring. Add the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat and you're deadly.
Ivarrius
02-08-06, 09:35 PM I wouldn't even think about taking Weapon Spec. It's not worth it. If you want more feats than 2 levels of Fighter offers, consider a level or two of Psychic Warrior.

Int to damage from Swa and a decent Str will serve you nicely.

I want to play a Horizon Walker badly too. I wish someone would start a new campaign so I can make one! :D

Definitely check out the Telflammar Shadowlord in Unapproachable East. It has an ability that lets you do a full-attack action immediately after dimension dooring. Add the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat and you're deadly.

WOW! Tef Shadowlord sounds incredible! That would be unbelieveable deadly.

Does anyone have access to CV right now to look up the initiative increasing feat for me?
ZeroEffect
02-08-06, 09:52 PM Danger Sense lets you reroll Init once per day.

Quick Reconnoiter gives you a +2 in Init, and lets you make Spot and Listen rolls as free actions.

There are some other things you can do to optimize Init... See the link below.

Shadowlord Links:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=111662
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=355528

LoP's Init Opt Link:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=454091

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ivarrius 02-07-06, 01:03 PM	Hey Folks, My DM and I are looking at doing a single player campaign, without gestalt (because I the player find it cheesy) and were looking to work on a campaign built on intrigue, assassination, much like a medieval version of James Bond/Bourne Supremacy. What I am hoping to have great ability in is mobility (Tumble, Jump, and climb especially) and dealing a large amount of damage quickly (via death attack, Sneak attack dice, TWF or spells) and fairly good charisma related skills. I am sure you all understand roughly the type of cahracter I am looking for, now for restrictions. Races: Either Elven or Human. Campaign Setting: Faerun Alignment : Any, really. Max PrC's: Around 3 I would say Maximum. Ability Scores: High powered - 18, 16, 14, 12, 12, 10 (Single palyer needs the advantage) Starting level: Likely around 7, but the build can be for 20 levels. Any help you guys have would be great. I checked through the Optimization Library, specifically under rogue, and didn't find exactly what i was looking for, and a few links were broken, leaving me to wonder what I might have been missing. Thanks in advance folks.
cvazi 02-07-06, 08:42 PM	I have been trying to figure something out for this. . . So far I have been thinking: Incarnate4, rogue3 incarnate 2, rogue 2, monk 3 bard 5, mindbender1, bard 1 Mostly I have been focusing on trying to get the feat mindsight (LoM) in there, since that would rock in an espionage game. The other thing I have been trying to do is give you an unarmed attack/make your own weapon attack so you can go from well dressed civilian to butt kicker without any start up. In order to take out an opponent quickly and silently I was thinking reaping mauler. But that can only eliminate one enemy at the time. If there are 2 guards, you will need to stunning fist in order to stop the second guard from calling an alarm. Another idea would be to use psionics so you can manifest without displays. That would add a level of espionage feel (like a silenced pistal). warlock would also be an interesting maneuver. Do any of these ideas sound interesting?
Caelic 02-07-06, 08:45 PM	While probably not the best candidate for the James Bond role, a Warlock/Mindbender can make a DANDY Bond-style villain. Permanantly charmed thugs, phenomenal Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Intimidate, the ability to teleport behind closed doors and read minds... Good stuff. Not an engine of destruction, but a great intrigue character.
Ivarrius 02-07-06, 09:08 PM	Cvazi - Yes I like the idea of being able to fight unarmed, and was considering Monk in there somehow. Stunning fist would be great in the build to be sure. I have to be honest however, I am not sure where Incarnate is from, as I haven't had the money to keep up with all the books. I like the idea of Monk alot, not for the aesthetic sort of guy, the religious style monk, but the Martial Arts Expert, capable of great feats of both strength and dexterity. Hmm.. perhaps a Monk Oriented build, with some levels of Rogue tossed in for some extra damage (sneak attack). What about getting to Dimension Door in HW too? Is that even Possible? Caelic - I agree, great villain, not so great for the single PC. I will mention it to the DM in case he wants to use the idea. Now, Are spells even needed for this type of Character? The more I look at special abilities and skills, I find he might do well enough without them. Any further advice? I am coming to you guys for power without broken-ness. Hopefully we can come up with something that can survive as well as perform. Edit - What about Rogue 3/Monk 4/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 8/?? X
Shadow_Gryphon 02-07-06, 10:48 PM	I find myself constantly promoting the following build, so I may sound like a broken record to many of the regulars here: go with a Monk1 or 2/Rogue18 or 19. Take the feats Ascetic Rogue, Improved Natural Attack, Unbalancing Strike (from OA) and then add on others depending on your taste (for this kind of character I would suggest Weapon Finesse and Improved Initiative, and to emphasize Dexterity as hiding will be quite useful). You'll do Monk damage with your unarmed strikes (with size increases due to INA, a Fanged Ring, Enlarge Person spell, Quori Limb, etc), and add Sneak Attack damage as well. You can inflict this damage with no items at all, which is quite nice if you are going in disguise. Prioritize Dex, Int, Cha, Con, Str, Wis, or something along those lines. You might also take the Kung Fu Genius feat so that your stunning attacks and AC are dependent on your Int rather than your Wis. Voila! A secret agent with great skills and the ability to be deadly at any and all points, without ever seeming threatening.
Surreal 02-07-06, 11:58 PM	While probably not the best candidate for the James Bond role, a Warlock/Mindbender can make a DANDY Bond-style villain. Permanantly charmed thugs, phenomenal Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Intimidate, the ability to teleport behind closed doors and read minds... Good stuff. Not an engine of destruction, but a great intrigue character. Throw on some levels of Cabinet Trickster too. Now can someone tell me why the heck Warlock doesn't have diplomacy as a class skill? (I just house-rule it in)
ZeroEffect 02-08-06, 04:03 AM	You'll want to have a good Int for skill points and Dex for stealth and combat. Start with Rogue and take at least 3 levels. Take 3 levels to Swashbuckler to get Weapon Finesse and your Int mod to damage. Take 2 levels of Fighter or Psychic Warrior to get feats. Take 2 levels of Ranger if you want Track and the fighting style. The Urban Ranger variant from Unearthed Arcana lets you use Gather Information to track people in a city, but you lose wilderness abilities. I like the Horizon Walker idea if you can stomach the 5 levels before you get the cool Dimension Door ability. Consider the Telflammar Shadowlord prestige class for the cool shadow abilities and death attack. It'll be hard to fit Telf. Shadowlord and Horizon Walker into the same build. Check out the Ninja Spy prestige class from Oriental Adventures; it gives some really awesome bonuses to Jumping, Tumbling, etc. Once again, you'll be hard pressed to fit it into the build if you take lots of other prestige class levels. Take 5 levels of Master Thrower if you want to throw daggers. Lastly, consider taking 2 levels in Bayushi Deciever from Oriental Adventures, for Int mod to Init, and the Imp. Init. feat. Acting first means you'll be able to kill your foes before they get to act, or if they're too tough for you to face, it'll allow you to flee. If you end up with lots of sneak attack dice, take the Craven feat. I'd try to stick with a neutral alignment so you can't be detected by Detect Evil. You're not going to be able to fit all of my suggestions into a build so you'll have to pick and choose what you want: Base Classes: Rogue 3+ Ranger 2 (3 if you go into Horizon Walker) Fighter 2 Psychic Warrior 2 Swashbuckler 3 Prestige Classes: Bayushi Deceiver 2 Horizon Walker 6+ (best powers are Dim. Door and Tremorsense) Ninja Spy 1-10 Master Thrower 5 (Palm Throw and Weak Spot) Telflammar Shadowlord 6 (Shadowlord template +1 LA)
PonTelon 02-08-06, 02:42 PM	I'm suprised no one has mentioned Thief Acrobat from Complete Adventurer yet. It's a wonderful class that fits with your style very well. In fact, most of the PrCs from that book would fit pretty well.
Ivarrius 02-08-06, 05:39 PM	All great ideas. I am liking the idea of lots of sneak attack dice, as I believe this campaign will be dealing with NPC's and BBEG's that are susceptible to the damage. Also, high skill points are going to be needed. So yes, Rogue levels for sure. The more I look at monk, the more I find 'Lawful' will be a difficult alignment to play, and keep, so perhaps ditching Monk for more levels of either rogue, or adding in Fighter, for extra feats, which will be slightly lacking. About thief acrobat - I don't have CV with me at the moment, but does it advance most or all of a rogues skill list as well? Also, what is the name of the feat that allows you to add a further bonus to initiative: I remember the feat desc, but not the name - "You are one jittery person" or something similar. edit - maxing out the use of Int and Dex are key, so Swashbuckler is great, as is Rogue and the skills associated. Fighter for feats (maybe 2 - 4 levels max (weapon spec would be nice, but unneccessary)) and anything adding to initiative. HW's early abilities do well to add +'s to hide, move silently and another skill I can't remember at the time, making it a decent choice, even for its early levels. Thanks for the help folks!
Ivarrius 02-08-06, 09:04 PM	I hate to double post, but are there any feats that are absolutely necessary, or things I would be silly NOT to take? Craven sounds interesting for sure, any others?
ZeroEffect 02-08-06, 09:23 PM	Improved Initiative. (yeah, I'm a broken record ;) ) I'm sure there are other feats that improve on sneak attack damage. Maybe others can make some suggestions.
ZeroEffect 02-08-06, 09:32 PM	Fighter for feats (maybe 2 - 4 levels max (weapon spec would be nice, but unneccessary)) and anything adding to initiative. I wouldn't even think about taking Weapon Spec. It's not worth it. If you want more feats than 2 levels of Fighter offers, consider a level or two of Psychic Warrior. Int to damage from Swa and a decent Str will serve you nicely. I want to play a Horizon Walker badly too. I wish someone would start a new campaign so I can make one! :D Definitely check out the Telflammar Shadowlord in Unapproachable East. It has an ability that lets you do a full-attack action immediately after dimension dooring. Add the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat and you're deadly.
Ivarrius 02-08-06, 09:35 PM	I wouldn't even think about taking Weapon Spec. It's not worth it. If you want more feats than 2 levels of Fighter offers, consider a level or two of Psychic Warrior. Int to damage from Swa and a decent Str will serve you nicely. I want to play a Horizon Walker badly too. I wish someone would start a new campaign so I can make one! :D Definitely check out the Telflammar Shadowlord in Unapproachable East. It has an ability that lets you do a full-attack action immediately after dimension dooring. Add the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat and you're deadly. WOW! Tef Shadowlord sounds incredible! That would be unbelieveable deadly. Does anyone have access to CV right now to look up the initiative increasing feat for me?
ZeroEffect 02-08-06, 09:52 PM	Danger Sense lets you reroll Init once per day. Quick Reconnoiter gives you a +2 in Init, and lets you make Spot and Listen rolls as free actions. There are some other things you can do to optimize Init... See the link below. Shadowlord Links: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=111662 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=355528 LoP's Init Opt Link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=454091