Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Diabolic Doppelganger 05-18-04, 12:18 AM	I know that this may not seem like a Min/Max question, but it can be used to Min/Max a character... I want to know if it is worth it? Here is how I think it works (Based on the rules provided in Unearthed Arcana). SIMPLIFIED: 1) Take the class level of the character and find out when you may buy it off (based on the races LA). Chart: LA Buy off Level +1 3rd +2 6th, 9th +3 12th +4 15th +5 18th 2) Take your ECL, subtract 1, and then x1000. That is the amount of xp that you lose to buy off one level. Is it just me, or is that extremly powerful? I don't understand how it works with... say... a +3, can they only lower thier LA by 1, or do they buy off at levels 12, 9, and 6? Can anyone simplify it more than that?
saethar 05-18-04, 12:30 AM	Since the LA +2 doesn't buy off at 3rd & 6th I took to the rules to mean that +3 and above can't fully buy off their LA. Saethar :b:
Gravmyr 05-18-04, 12:31 AM	Umm this is from UA I assume and am unsure if it's OGL but the table seems incorrect if it is. If I am reading my book correctly then an LA +4 can be reduced the first time at 12th, the second time at 21st, third time at 27th, and final time at 30th. To make it simple you multiply your LA by 3 and that is the first time you can do it. Each time you reduce it you have to wait a number of levels equal to 3 times the remaining LA until you reach 0. EDIT: The reason the chart doesn't extend further is it leaves out epic levels.
pokemaniacbill 05-18-04, 12:34 AM	I say it's definitely worth it. The EXP cost is negligible in the long-run... and it's most advantageous, out of all of them, is to take THREE LA. Yes? You can buy it all off before Epic. Consider. Feral Mineral Warrior No loss in character level. DR 8/Adamantine, Burrow Speed, increased land speed, Fast Healing 2, claw attack, and Rake. And I think there's one other AWESOME LA+1 thing in Dragon, but I'm afraid I have no subscription. Or you could go with Half-Dragon... because, well, it's bloody Half-Dragon. It's especially good for Monks, but Fighters really benefit from it... templates rule.
Blade2718 05-18-04, 12:41 AM	I think you're looking for White Dragonspawn, which is really uber. Adds natural armor, a natural attack routine, ADDS A SORCERER CASTER LEVEL, breath weapon, and some other stuff all for the low, low price of LA+1.
pokemaniacbill 05-18-04, 12:46 AM	Geezus! That wasn't what I was thinking of, but that kicks! Y helo thar True Strike!
James McMurray 05-18-04, 12:46 AM	Yes, it is always worth it. The experience point system ensures that you will catch up if you lose a level. That means you'll be able to hit 20th level instead of level 12 / ECL 20.
Diabolic Doppelganger 05-18-04, 01:18 AM	Don't have the book with me (DM borrowed it), so I know that it is not all correct... So can a +3LA buy off all the levels? I think that as long as you do not post the rules, you are allowed to clarify them... I just want the rules in leymans terms (as I am not one of those who tries to rape the rules to the point that half of the written material is clarification). Can anyone help?
pokemaniacbill 05-18-04, 01:24 AM	The LA buyoff rules are simple. You can buy off up to three LA pre-epic... but only starting LA. NOT accquired templates. You pay experience cost equal to your ECL (Not counting racial hit die) -1 x 1000, and you can ONLY do this at the starting of certain levels. You can lose a level doing it this way. So yeah, an LA3 can be bought off completely Pre-Epic.
Lilt 05-18-04, 06:03 AM	Having LA+0 on an LA+3 creature is certainly sweet. You'll still be(45+(Racial HD))*1000 XP down though, so I'd say that it's not overly powered, but it does screw LA creatures over *less*. With the just-turned-21st level party, for example, you'll still only be level 18 but you will have a few less XP to earn. One interesting aspect of this is that the party you are with may end-up getting higher rewards due to the average party level being lower.
pokemaniacbill 05-18-04, 06:18 AM	To be fair, you'd be more like a ninetenth level character with how EXP works...
Lilt 05-18-04, 07:35 AM	That depends. If your DM is using difficulty-based XP awards for individual characters then you will probably stay the same numbber of levels lower that you were before. The rest of the party gains 7% higher XP awards, but you get proportionately less XP based on your level. (IE: youe XP awards are (Your ECL)/(Their ECL)*Their XP awards) With uniform XP per character using either difficulty-based or CR-based XP awards: The rest of the party sometimes gains XP at a faster rate (5% faster for difficulty-based, 6% faster for CR-based) although you still stay a fixed amount of XP behind. If your DM uses CR based XP awards for individual characters then your ECL 11 character may even get 22% more XP than the rest of the ECL 12 party and would sprint his way up-to ECL 12 again a good 3 encounters before the rest of the party has reaches ECL 13 (At which point he will catch-up to 13th level, gaining 23% higher XP awards, before the party hit 14th ECL). IE: If your DM uses CR-based XP awards then the system for buying-off ECL is pretty sweet.
pokemaniacbill 05-18-04, 07:40 AM	That's the system my DM must use. I was also factoring in Rez and Raise though, as a factor of EXP, under the assumption that an LA bought off creature would be harder to kill.