Post/Author/DateTime	Post
djbeatboy 02-23-06, 10:02 PM	I've seen this a few times now, people talking about "buying off" level ajustments... What does this mean and how is it done????
psly4mne 02-23-06, 10:26 PM	LA buyoff is one of the more widely used variants from Unearthed Arcana. It allows you to pay a certain amount of XP at certain levels (depending on how big the LA was) to gradually reduce your level adjustment. Due to the self-correcting nature of the XP system, it means that a character with LA can eventually be at the same level as the rest of the party, ignoring LA. The highest LA that can be completely bought off (entirely eliminated) by level 20 is +3.
djbeatboy 02-23-06, 11:37 PM	Sweet! Thanks!! :)) using a half dragon template atm... this is VERY good!!! :)
Kurama Youko 02-24-06, 09:42 AM	LA buyoff is one of the more widely used variants from Unearthed Arcana. It allows you to pay a certain amount of XP at certain levels (depending on how big the LA was) to gradually reduce your level adjustment. Due to the self-correcting nature of the XP system, it means that a character with LA can eventually be at the same level as the rest of the party, ignoring LA. The highest LA that can be completely bought off (entirely eliminated) by level 20 is +3. Okay so I'm starting a 20th lv Campaign maybe tomorrow so could I have a LA+3 race/template and still have 20 class levels?
KiDevil 02-24-06, 11:29 AM	You wouldn't start at level 20 because you have to pay the experience to reduce the level adjustment. You wouldn't have a level adjustment anymore and since you are a lower level you would gain experience more quickly and to an extent catch up to the rest of the party. I think you would have to pay 39000 experience for a level 3 adjustment.
Oogar 02-24-06, 11:32 AM	Depends. If I were the DM I would give an XP total, or figure out where you would be if you had been traveling with a group durring the leveling. Also, your DM may not allow it. Check with them would be my suggestion. (As a dm I might go with having bought off all 3, but being at level 19 or something to try and keep balance)
BarbeChenue 02-24-06, 11:34 AM	I'm questionning the balance of the LA Buyoff Variant, following my calculations, a +1 LA is almost completly bought out at around level 10, and this gives a significant advantage to Powerful Races or Templated Creatures. My group used this variant in the past, but as soon as I came out with some of my calculations (showing just much many Templates you could fill in 20 levels at no disadvantage), the variant was immediately abandonned. I think the very concept of LA is flawed in the first place, because the current system puts Level Adjusted races at a disadvantage. LA Buyoff is going too far in trying to make them viable, and doesn't even fix the issue of "nigh unplayable races/templates" like Ogre Mage, Gargoyle, Troll or Vampire. Ideally LA buyoff should be more advantagous if you had a high LA and lots of HDs.
PhoenixInferno 02-24-06, 11:37 AM	LA +2 is the ideal breakpoint for a 1-20 campaign, based on Unearthed Arcana rules - you can buy off all the LA by level 20.
Vaelan 02-24-06, 12:44 PM	LA +2 is the ideal breakpoint for a 1-20 campaign, based on Unearthed Arcana rules - you can buy off all the LA by level 20. You can buy off LA up to +3. First point at 9 (3*3), second point at 15 (3*3 + 2*6), and the second point at 18 (3*3 + 2*6 + 3+1) BarbeChenue, a LA +1 race is completely bought out at level three. The balance question comes up when you have races with abilities that scale, as the premise behind LA buy-off is that abilities become less useful and are thus worth less of a penalty at higher levels. This simply isn't true of quite a few traits, such as SR.
Slyver 02-24-06, 01:44 PM	I'm questionning the balance of the LA Buyoff Variant, following my calculations, a +1 LA is almost completly bought out at around level 10, and this gives a significant advantage to Powerful Races or Templated Creatures. My group used this variant in the past, but as soon as I came out with some of my calculations (showing just much many Templates you could fill in 20 levels at no disadvantage), the variant was immediately abandonned. I think the very concept of LA is flawed in the first place, because the current system puts Level Adjusted races at a disadvantage. LA Buyoff is going too far in trying to make them viable, and doesn't even fix the issue of "nigh unplayable races/templates" like Ogre Mage, Gargoyle, Troll or Vampire. Ideally LA buyoff should be more advantagous if you had a high LA and lots of HDs. Does LA buyoff make low LA's disappear? Yes, It this a must have advantage? Absolutely not. Even if you start at a higher level and add all those templates and/or are of a LA race you will not necessarily be at an advantage over someone who is not. There are too many ways to gain the exact same or similar (or better to MUCH better) advantages that LA races and templates provide. This is why LA buyoff was made in the first place. Lets say you are making a character starting at level 15 and think you are taking advantage of the system by playing a feral goliath with all the LA bought and paid for and the same, or almost the same exp as everyone else. Now here I come with my Wildshape Ranger 5/MoMF 8/Warshaper 2 Wartroll or firbolg and I completely decimate your character. This is one, easy to see example. There are more than I can possibly count. What your calculations are not taking into account is that, at low levels, when the LA is still applied is the ONLY time that LA is an advantage. That is the point of LA. Now granted, for completely non-optimized characters this is not true at all. However, anyone who can calculate exactly how long it is going to take to "take advantage of the system" by buying off LA can certainly create a much stronger character without ever touching any LA templates or races. In my opinion, with a (very) few exceptions, the LA buy-off rules are entirely too stringent and do not scale well at all. You should be able to buy off higher order LA's much easier, and racial HD should be non-existant. Playing a ghost, or a mindflayer, or whatever (and those are two of the better ones) generally creates a much weaker character than playing a human, or even an awakened diminutive ant. Slyver
BarbeChenue 02-24-06, 03:11 PM	BarbeChenue, a LA +1 race is completely bought out at level three. The balance question comes up when you have races with abilities that scale, as the premise behind LA buy-off is that abilities become less useful and are thus worth less of a penalty at higher levels. This simply isn't true of quite a few traits, such as SR. I should have used another word, I meant you had completely recovered from the XP lost at level 10. Because of this, a character with LA +1 is invariably stronger than one without, which just isn't really balanced in my mind.
Slyver 02-24-06, 03:28 PM	Because of this, a character with LA +1 is invariably stronger than one without Which is a completely false statement, read my post above. Slyver