Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bladenite78 04-23-06, 02:00 PM	so, Ive seen the discussions about how PA doesnt qualify you for MT early and frankly I think it can swing either way however Id like to know if there are other ways that more people share a general concensus about to qualify for the various multi-type casting classes such as AH or MT. I've heard about something to do with Earth sense, also wondering about the Southern Magician feat but other than that are there any other ways?
psly4mne 04-23-06, 03:37 PM	The consensus is also that Southern Magician doesn't get you into a divine casting PrC, though I don't remember why offhand. Earth Spell and Sanctum Spell each let you increase your highest castable spell level by one. Earth Spell has as prerequisites Earth Sense, Heighten Spell, 13 con, and 13 wis. Sanctum Spell just requires any one other metamagic. An Illumian can accomplish the same feat with Improved Sigil (Krau). The last tidbit that could be useful is the Bamboo Spirit Folk race from OA, which gets Trackless Step for free. For nearly full double casting, you have two main options. 1. Bamboo Spirit Folk Drd 2/Wiz 1/MT 6/AH 10/MT +1 with Sanctum Spell to qualify for MT 2. Illumian (Aeshkrau) Drd 3/Wiz 1/MT 4/AH 10/MT +2 with Improved Sigil (Krau) to qualify for MT The first picks up a level of Wizard casting; the second gets tons of bonus spells between Aeshkrau and wildshape. I like the second better. In theory, there is also Divine Metamagic: Heighten and its ilk, but that's just too cheesy to use practically.
Bladenite78 04-23-06, 07:09 PM	The consensus is also that Southern Magician doesn't get you into a divine casting PrC, though I don't remember why offhand. Earth Spell and Sanctum Spell each let you increase your highest castable spell level by one. Earth Spell has as prerequisites Earth Sense, Heighten Spell, 13 con, and 13 wis. Sanctum Spell just requires any one other metamagic. An Illumian can accomplish the same feat with Improved Sigil (Krau). The last tidbit that could be useful is the Bamboo Spirit Folk race from OA, which gets Trackless Step for free. For nearly full double casting, you have two main options. 1. Bamboo Spirit Folk Drd 2/Wiz 1/MT 6/AH 10/MT +1 with Sanctum Spell to qualify for MT 2. Illumian (Aeshkrau) Drd 3/Wiz 1/MT 4/AH 10/MT +2 with Improved Sigil (Krau) to qualify for MT The first picks up a level of Wizard casting; the second gets tons of bonus spells between Aeshkrau and wildshape. I like the second better. In theory, there is also Divine Metamagic: Heighten and its ilk, but that's just too cheesy to use practically. that's interesting, and I thank you for your analysis. That said Id like to open the board to the Southern Magician feat because the book says nothing in the prerequisites nor text about arcane magic or divine magic specifically other than it can be changed into divine 1/day per every 2 caster levels. It says the source and the preparation don't change which I take to mean you must still get the spell from your God or a book, intelligence or wisdom affects it normally and you must prepare the spells in the same way you had to normally. So does anyone have anything to say about why it does not allow you to take one of the classes a couple levels earlier?
Caelic 04-23-06, 07:26 PM	Repeated rulings from WotC have confirmed the general policy that feats like Southern Magician and spells like Anyspell do not, in fact, change the source of the magic; a divine spell remains divine, an arcane spell remains arcane. This has both positive and negative ramifications for optimization, but it does mean that Southern Magician won't work for arcane spell requirements. Now: Sword of the Arcane Order might possibly be another matter, but until it's specifically ruled on, it's probably best to stick to the general principle.
Banaticus 04-23-06, 07:31 PM	MT is Mystic Theurge. PA is ? AH is World of Warcraft Auction House ... a dubious PrC? ;)
deathwishjoe 04-23-06, 07:37 PM	PA == precocious apprentice. its not with the other feats but its in complete arcane. AH == arcane hierophant. can be found in races of the wild.
Kessalin Talira 04-23-06, 08:45 PM	The consensus is also that Southern Magician doesn't get you into a divine casting PrC, though I don't remember why offhand. Earth Spell and Sanctum Spell each let you increase your highest castable spell level by one. Earth Spell has as prerequisites Earth Sense, Heighten Spell, 13 con, and 13 wis. Sanctum Spell just requires any one other metamagic. An Illumian can accomplish the same feat with Improved Sigil (Krau). The last tidbit that could be useful is the Bamboo Spirit Folk race from OA, which gets Trackless Step for free. For nearly full double casting, you have two main options. 1. Bamboo Spirit Folk Drd 2/Wiz 1/MT 6/AH 10/MT +1 with Sanctum Spell to qualify for MT 2. Illumian (Aeshkrau) Drd 3/Wiz 1/MT 4/AH 10/MT +2 with Improved Sigil (Krau) to qualify for MT The first picks up a level of Wizard casting; the second gets tons of bonus spells between Aeshkrau and wildshape. I like the second better. In theory, there is also Divine Metamagic: Heighten and its ilk, but that's just too cheesy to use practically.Krau doesn't qualify you for MT. It increases caster level, just like Practiced Spellcaster. It doesn't increase spell levels like Sanctum Spell does.
psly4mne 04-23-06, 08:55 PM	Krau doesn't qualify you for MT. It increases caster level, just like Practiced Spellcaster. It doesn't increase spell levels like Sanctum Spell does. The Krau sigil itself increases caster level. While the feat table says that Improved Sigil (Krau) increases CL, the text says spell level (and mentions that it works like Heighten). Text trumps table, as always, and the text is pretty clear.
Kessalin Talira 04-23-06, 09:07 PM	Ah, ok. I forgot the bit in Improved Sigil. My bad. I was looking at Krau by itself.
Bladenite78 04-23-06, 10:40 PM	Repeated rulings from WotC have confirmed the general policy that feats like Southern Magician and spells like Anyspell do not, in fact, change the source of the magic; a divine spell remains divine, an arcane spell remains arcane. This has both positive and negative ramifications for optimization, but it does mean that Southern Magician won't work for arcane spell requirements. Now: Sword of the Arcane Order might possibly be another matter, but until it's specifically ruled on, it's probably best to stick to the general principle. All righty, sounds like they just want you to work for those multi-casting types no matter what, hehe. I think it's ambiguous to put it that way, I mean its basically a sudden still magic with a twist and the twist isn't all that usefull. Personally if a player role played it out I think Id let them do it, I don't see in a fashion other tham metagaming wise why it would be that overbalancing. A few more spell levels isnt going to chew through my game that much faster.