C Scoundrel changed my plans! [Archive] - Wizards Community

C Scoundrel changed my plans! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PhoenixInferno
02-02-07, 04:24 AM Hey all, I'm playing a Ranger in a play-by-post, he is currently a Ranger 5/Rogue 2/Horizon Walker 1/Stalker of Kharash 2 - the party's skill monkey/scout/trap-finder.
STR (14 base) = 14
DEX (14 base + 2 level + 2 enhancement) = 18
CON (14 base) = 14
INT (14 base + 2 enhancement) = 16
WIS (12 base) = 12
CHA (12 base) = 12

Rogue 1 - Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding, Nymph's Kiss, Able Learner
Rogue 2 - Evasion
Rogue 2/Ranger 1 - Favored Enemy (Giant), Track, Wild Empathy, Alertness
Rogue 2/Ranger 2 - Archery Combat Style (Rapid Shot)
Rogue 2/Ranger 3 - Endurance
Rogue 2/Ranger 4 - Distracting Attack, Favored of the Companions
Rogue 2/Ranger 4/Stalker of Kharash 1 - Scent of Evil
Rogue 2/Ranger 4/Stalker of Kharash 2 - Favored Enemy (Evil)
Rogue 2/Ranger 4/Stalker of Kharash 2/Horizon Walker 1 - Underground Mastery, Point Blank Shot
Rogue 2/Ranger 5/Stalker of Kharash 2/Horizon Walker 1 - Favored Enemy (Drow)

2 Balance (4 DEX - 2 disability)
0 Climb (2 STR - 2 disability)
15 Bluff (12 ranks + 1 CHA + 2 Nymph's Kiss)
18 Disable Device (13 ranks + 3 INT + 2 circumstance)
9 Escape Artist (5 ranks + 4 DEX), 11 if bound in rope
0 Jump (2 STR - 2 disability)
17 Hide (13 ranks+ 4 DEX)
11 Knowledge(Geography) (8 ranks + 3 INT)
6 Knowledge(Local - The Dalelands) (3 ranks [free] + 3 INT)
16 Listen (13 ranks + 1 WIS + 2 Alertness)
15 Move Silently (13 ranks + 4 DEX - 2 disability)
2 Ride (4 DEX - 2 disability)
21 Search (13 ranks + 3 INT + 5 circumstance)
9 Sense Motive (8 ranks + 1 WIS)
Speak Language (Drow Sign Language, Elven (Drow))
16 Spot (13 ranks + 1 WIS + 2 Alertness)
9 Survival (8 + 1 WIS)
0 Swim (2 STR - 2 disability)
15 Use Magic Device (12 ranks + 1 CHA + 2 Nymph's Kiss)
9 Use Rope (5 ranks + 4 DEX), 11 to bind someoneI was going to advance the next 4 levels with SoK +2/Ranger +1/Rogue +1. We are playing City of the Spider Queen (NO SPOILERS!) and I realize I could use a bigger Darkvision range (60ft ain't cuttin' it vs Drow). Swift Hunter, Swift Ambusher and Uncanny Trickster (Complete Scoundrel) also tweaked my previous plans by allowing Skirmish damage vs previously immune targets and allowing me to take levels of low-skill classes and using Uncanny Trickster to gain 8+INT skills instead. Swift Ambusher is gravy, giving me more Skirmish damage (he would be considered a 10th level Scout for Skirmish purposes, once those feats were in place).

I have a minimum of 4 levels to wait before I can qualify for Uncanny Trickster because I don't have any skill tricks yet. I was thinking I would take a level of Dark Hunter and a level of Dungeon Delver to get the +60ft Darkvision I need, but I don't have the required skills ranks yet. I figure if I go Scout 2 to get skills for that:Scout 1
Scout 2 (feat)
Dungeon Delver 1
Dark Hunter 1
Ranger 6
Rogue 3
SoK 3
SoK 4 Hide in Plain SightThis of course, delays acquisition of Hide in Plain Sight, a wicked cool ability. It also takes another 2 points of BAB out of the character and skews my saves since we aren't using fractional BAB/saves. I might go:
Scout 1
Scout 2
Dungeon Delver 1
Dungeon Delver 2
Uncanny Trickster 1
Uncanny Trickster 2
Uncanny Trickster 3This delays the Darkvision extension that would be handy. Of course, neither of those get me enough Scout levels to take Swift Hunter:Scout 1
Scout 2
Scout 3
Scout 4 (bonus feat)Any thoughts? I can use all books, but the DM runs a tight ship. I don't believe anything can be changed as of now, but I used to have the Animal Companion class feature before PHBII. If there's any more info you need, the full character sheet is in my sig. If its not there, then ask.
PhoenixInferno
02-02-07, 01:17 PM Well, its been overnight. :bump:
Swrdsinger
02-02-07, 02:08 PM Well, you need three levels of scout to take swift hunter. Are the prereqs the same for swift ambusher? as far as scout is concerned I mean.

Doesn't Stalker of Kharash's hide in plane sight only function in natural terrain? How much time are you spending there?

Have you considered Improved Favored Enemy or Nemesis? (I didn't find the character sheet in your sig)
PhoenixInferno
02-02-07, 02:18 PM Well, you need three levels of scout to take swift hunter. Are the prereqs the same for swift ambusher? as far as scout is concerned I mean. Yeah, Swift Ambusher also requires 3 Scout levels.Doesn't Stalker of Kharash's hide in plane sight only function in natural terrain? How much time are you spending there?I should double check that. The wilds of the Underdark are still considered natural terrain, however.Have you considered Improved Favored Enemy or Nemesis? (I didn't find the character sheet in your sig)I was going to get Nemesis in the future, but now it looks like I won't because of Complete Scoundrel.

Should I abandon the Uncanny Trickster idea?
hobbit_killer
02-02-07, 03:29 PM I think I'd forget uncanny trickster. Take another level of ranger, four levels of scout, one level of rogue, two levels of SoK, and finish off with 2 more levels of ranger.

Final build looks like ranger8/scout4/horizon walker1/rogue3/SoK4

This gets you all the goodies I think you want with just one more loss in bab. Pick up greater manyshot at 12 and take swift hunter and swift ambusher at 15 and 16 (bonus scout feat) to get the skirmish damage up.

As far as the sight problem, I think I would use your ranger spells to help out there. Deeper Darkvision might be a 4th level ranger spell, so you might need a wand for that but enough ranks in listen will get you blindsight from listening lorecall. maybe a party member can help out here?
Balthanon
02-02-07, 11:37 PM To quickly answer your question from the setup thread, yes, you can use Complete Scoundrel.
Nibbler
02-02-07, 11:44 PM If you're using going to take so few rogue levels, consider using the feat rogue from UA. Two feats is better than 1d6 sneak attack damage. Perhaps you could get point blank shot/precise shot or some of the prerequisites for your PrCs.
PhoenixInferno
02-02-07, 11:47 PM If you're using going to take so few rogue levels, consider using the feat rogue from UA. Two feats is better than 1d6 sneak attack damage. Perhaps you could get point blank shot/precise shot or some of the prerequisites for your PrCs.Already in play. Although I've never sneak attacked anything...but feats aren't the issue.
Blade2718
02-03-07, 12:13 AM Skirmish is like Sneak Attack in that you get the next bonus for it if a class grants you the first bonus again (5d6 becomes 6d6 when you take your first Asn level, for instance). As far as I can tell, Swift Hunter doesn't need Scout 4, just a certain amount of Skirmish. So why not try to qualify for a PrC that gives you Skirmish at its 1st level? Just throwing out ideas.
PhoenixInferno
02-03-07, 01:45 AM Skirmish is like Sneak Attack in that you get the next bonus for it if a class grants you the first bonus again (5d6 becomes 6d6 when you take your first Asn level, for instance). As far as I can tell, Swift Hunter doesn't need Scout 4, just a certain amount of Skirmish. So why not try to qualify for a PrC that gives you Skirmish at its 1st level? Just throwing out ideas.Thought about that, there are not many - Highland Stalker and Peregrine Runner are the only two that grant a natural progression and Dragon Devotee and Unseen Seer advance it, if you have it. Peregrine Runner requires you to be a Goliath, so that's out and Highland Stalker has skill requirements that I don't meet and grants abilities that are...sub-optimal in the confined environment of the Underdark.
prototype00
02-03-07, 02:53 AM Improved Skirmish, possibly? If you're already skirmishing, its a nice bonus. Or has it already been meintioned?

prototype00
Blade2718
02-03-07, 05:32 PM Improved Skirmish, possibly? If you're already skirmishing, its a nice bonus. Or has it already been meintioned?

prototype00Improved Skirmish only makes it better if you move 20'+ in a round.
FreAkOuTRG
02-03-07, 06:19 PM Improved Skirmish only makes it better if you move 20'+ in a round.

Which almost any scout should be doing anyway, unless they have feats or skills or somesuch that allow you to take a "10 ft. step"
PhoenixInferno
02-03-07, 06:30 PM Improved Skirmish, possibly? If you're already skirmishing, its a nice bonus. Or has it already been meintioned?

prototype00Something to consider, since so far all of our fights have had SOME maneuvering room.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PhoenixInferno 02-02-07, 04:24 AM	Hey all, I'm playing a Ranger in a play-by-post, he is currently a Ranger 5/Rogue 2/Horizon Walker 1/Stalker of Kharash 2 - the party's skill monkey/scout/trap-finder. STR (14 base) = 14 DEX (14 base + 2 level + 2 enhancement) = 18 CON (14 base) = 14 INT (14 base + 2 enhancement) = 16 WIS (12 base) = 12 CHA (12 base) = 12 Rogue 1 - Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding, Nymph's Kiss, Able Learner Rogue 2 - Evasion Rogue 2/Ranger 1 - Favored Enemy (Giant), Track, Wild Empathy, Alertness Rogue 2/Ranger 2 - Archery Combat Style (Rapid Shot) Rogue 2/Ranger 3 - Endurance Rogue 2/Ranger 4 - Distracting Attack, Favored of the Companions Rogue 2/Ranger 4/Stalker of Kharash 1 - Scent of Evil Rogue 2/Ranger 4/Stalker of Kharash 2 - Favored Enemy (Evil) Rogue 2/Ranger 4/Stalker of Kharash 2/Horizon Walker 1 - Underground Mastery, Point Blank Shot Rogue 2/Ranger 5/Stalker of Kharash 2/Horizon Walker 1 - Favored Enemy (Drow) 2 Balance (4 DEX - 2 disability) 0 Climb (2 STR - 2 disability) 15 Bluff (12 ranks + 1 CHA + 2 Nymph's Kiss) 18 Disable Device (13 ranks + 3 INT + 2 circumstance) 9 Escape Artist (5 ranks + 4 DEX), 11 if bound in rope 0 Jump (2 STR - 2 disability) 17 Hide (13 ranks+ 4 DEX) 11 Knowledge(Geography) (8 ranks + 3 INT) 6 Knowledge(Local - The Dalelands) (3 ranks [free] + 3 INT) 16 Listen (13 ranks + 1 WIS + 2 Alertness) 15 Move Silently (13 ranks + 4 DEX - 2 disability) 2 Ride (4 DEX - 2 disability) 21 Search (13 ranks + 3 INT + 5 circumstance) 9 Sense Motive (8 ranks + 1 WIS) Speak Language (Drow Sign Language, Elven (Drow)) 16 Spot (13 ranks + 1 WIS + 2 Alertness) 9 Survival (8 + 1 WIS) 0 Swim (2 STR - 2 disability) 15 Use Magic Device (12 ranks + 1 CHA + 2 Nymph's Kiss) 9 Use Rope (5 ranks + 4 DEX), 11 to bind someoneI was going to advance the next 4 levels with SoK +2/Ranger +1/Rogue +1. We are playing City of the Spider Queen (NO SPOILERS!) and I realize I could use a bigger Darkvision range (60ft ain't cuttin' it vs Drow). Swift Hunter, Swift Ambusher and Uncanny Trickster (Complete Scoundrel) also tweaked my previous plans by allowing Skirmish damage vs previously immune targets and allowing me to take levels of low-skill classes and using Uncanny Trickster to gain 8+INT skills instead. Swift Ambusher is gravy, giving me more Skirmish damage (he would be considered a 10th level Scout for Skirmish purposes, once those feats were in place). I have a minimum of 4 levels to wait before I can qualify for Uncanny Trickster because I don't have any skill tricks yet. I was thinking I would take a level of Dark Hunter and a level of Dungeon Delver to get the +60ft Darkvision I need, but I don't have the required skills ranks yet. I figure if I go Scout 2 to get skills for that:Scout 1 Scout 2 (feat) Dungeon Delver 1 Dark Hunter 1 Ranger 6 Rogue 3 SoK 3 SoK 4 Hide in Plain SightThis of course, delays acquisition of Hide in Plain Sight, a wicked cool ability. It also takes another 2 points of BAB out of the character and skews my saves since we aren't using fractional BAB/saves. I might go: Scout 1 Scout 2 Dungeon Delver 1 Dungeon Delver 2 Uncanny Trickster 1 Uncanny Trickster 2 Uncanny Trickster 3This delays the Darkvision extension that would be handy. Of course, neither of those get me enough Scout levels to take Swift Hunter:Scout 1 Scout 2 Scout 3 Scout 4 (bonus feat)Any thoughts? I can use all books, but the DM runs a tight ship. I don't believe anything can be changed as of now, but I used to have the Animal Companion class feature before PHBII. If there's any more info you need, the full character sheet is in my sig. If its not there, then ask.
PhoenixInferno 02-02-07, 01:17 PM	Well, its been overnight. :bump:
Swrdsinger 02-02-07, 02:08 PM	Well, you need three levels of scout to take swift hunter. Are the prereqs the same for swift ambusher? as far as scout is concerned I mean. Doesn't Stalker of Kharash's hide in plane sight only function in natural terrain? How much time are you spending there? Have you considered Improved Favored Enemy or Nemesis? (I didn't find the character sheet in your sig)
PhoenixInferno 02-02-07, 02:18 PM	Well, you need three levels of scout to take swift hunter. Are the prereqs the same for swift ambusher? as far as scout is concerned I mean. Yeah, Swift Ambusher also requires 3 Scout levels.Doesn't Stalker of Kharash's hide in plane sight only function in natural terrain? How much time are you spending there?I should double check that. The wilds of the Underdark are still considered natural terrain, however.Have you considered Improved Favored Enemy or Nemesis? (I didn't find the character sheet in your sig)I was going to get Nemesis in the future, but now it looks like I won't because of Complete Scoundrel. Should I abandon the Uncanny Trickster idea?
hobbit_killer 02-02-07, 03:29 PM	I think I'd forget uncanny trickster. Take another level of ranger, four levels of scout, one level of rogue, two levels of SoK, and finish off with 2 more levels of ranger. Final build looks like ranger8/scout4/horizon walker1/rogue3/SoK4 This gets you all the goodies I think you want with just one more loss in bab. Pick up greater manyshot at 12 and take swift hunter and swift ambusher at 15 and 16 (bonus scout feat) to get the skirmish damage up. As far as the sight problem, I think I would use your ranger spells to help out there. Deeper Darkvision might be a 4th level ranger spell, so you might need a wand for that but enough ranks in listen will get you blindsight from listening lorecall. maybe a party member can help out here?
Balthanon 02-02-07, 11:37 PM	To quickly answer your question from the setup thread, yes, you can use Complete Scoundrel.
Nibbler 02-02-07, 11:44 PM	If you're using going to take so few rogue levels, consider using the feat rogue from UA. Two feats is better than 1d6 sneak attack damage. Perhaps you could get point blank shot/precise shot or some of the prerequisites for your PrCs.
PhoenixInferno 02-02-07, 11:47 PM	If you're using going to take so few rogue levels, consider using the feat rogue from UA. Two feats is better than 1d6 sneak attack damage. Perhaps you could get point blank shot/precise shot or some of the prerequisites for your PrCs.Already in play. Although I've never sneak attacked anything...but feats aren't the issue.
Blade2718 02-03-07, 12:13 AM	Skirmish is like Sneak Attack in that you get the next bonus for it if a class grants you the first bonus again (5d6 becomes 6d6 when you take your first Asn level, for instance). As far as I can tell, Swift Hunter doesn't need Scout 4, just a certain amount of Skirmish. So why not try to qualify for a PrC that gives you Skirmish at its 1st level? Just throwing out ideas.
PhoenixInferno 02-03-07, 01:45 AM	Skirmish is like Sneak Attack in that you get the next bonus for it if a class grants you the first bonus again (5d6 becomes 6d6 when you take your first Asn level, for instance). As far as I can tell, Swift Hunter doesn't need Scout 4, just a certain amount of Skirmish. So why not try to qualify for a PrC that gives you Skirmish at its 1st level? Just throwing out ideas.Thought about that, there are not many - Highland Stalker and Peregrine Runner are the only two that grant a natural progression and Dragon Devotee and Unseen Seer advance it, if you have it. Peregrine Runner requires you to be a Goliath, so that's out and Highland Stalker has skill requirements that I don't meet and grants abilities that are...sub-optimal in the confined environment of the Underdark.
prototype00 02-03-07, 02:53 AM	Improved Skirmish, possibly? If you're already skirmishing, its a nice bonus. Or has it already been meintioned? prototype00
Blade2718 02-03-07, 05:32 PM	Improved Skirmish, possibly? If you're already skirmishing, its a nice bonus. Or has it already been meintioned? prototype00Improved Skirmish only makes it better if you move 20'+ in a round.
FreAkOuTRG 02-03-07, 06:19 PM	Improved Skirmish only makes it better if you move 20'+ in a round. Which almost any scout should be doing anyway, unless they have feats or skills or somesuch that allow you to take a "10 ft. step"
PhoenixInferno 02-03-07, 06:30 PM	Improved Skirmish, possibly? If you're already skirmishing, its a nice bonus. Or has it already been meintioned? prototype00Something to consider, since so far all of our fights have had SOME maneuvering room.