cabinet trickster change shape ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

cabinet trickster change shape ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dog45
10-17-05, 07:25 PM I'm playing a rogue 6/cabinet trickster 4, about to take the last level in CT and get 2 great abilities.

1) Detect Thoughts (and thought tricks) at will. 'Nuff said.

2) Change Shape into a Small or Medium Humanoid.

Number 2 is the one I've been thinking about. I've looked through most of the books and found about 20-25 Humanoids to choose from. Most of them are pretty standard fare, nothing special. The only ones I really noted were the ones that had special movement rates (climb/swim/fly/burrow, etc).

Short List for Movement Rates

Swim

Merfolk
Sea Kin

Burrow

Asherati (sand only)

Flight

Raptoran

Climb

Snow Goblin

While useful when the situation calls for it, none of them I found have any really cool extraordinary special attacks. Except for 2 of them, in the Ravenloft book Denizens of Dread.

The Ermordenung has two (Ex) special attacks, both with a 2d4 Con Poison. In fact, if you simply touch the Big E's skin, or hit it with an unarmed attack, you have to save vs the poison. The poison attack works best with the Kiss (Ex) ability, because the DC is higher.

The Human, Vistani is the other rocker and the bad boy of the two. You get to keep their Evil Eye (Ex) attack, which is a gaze attack with 4 different attack options. Paralyze, Fear, Dominate, and Suggestion. You can even kill with the Paralyze one. And the DC is based off your Charisma, and it's even higher if you're a female Vistani (which you can be since you changed shape to get there in the first place).

Not everyone allows campaign specific stuff in another campaign world, but I thought these 2 were the best 2 forms I'd found so far for the uber social changeling trickster.
smrtgmp
10-17-05, 10:28 PM This is a bit off topic, but if you're going for the ultimate social character, you might want to pick up a single level of warlock and grab the beguiling influence invocation. A +6 to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate is great, and, IIRC, its an unnamed bonus. It also gives you eldritch blast, which is a nice back up weapon (and nice for delivering ranged sneak attacks), especially if you're going somewhere where weapons are frowned upon.
MayorMcNaked
10-18-05, 05:21 PM Actually, I'm working on building a similar character (albeit with warshaper thrown in to up my combat abilities). I was wondering if there's a list of all the "humanoid" races and what books they're in. I could see such a thing as being a valuable resource for any shapeshifter, but especially for the aspiring Cab Trickster, as they're limited to humanoid forms. Is there such a list somewhere? Inquiring changelings want to know.
dog45
10-18-05, 07:12 PM This list isn't complete. Covered so far:
Monster Manual I/II/III, Races of Destiny/Wild/Stone/Eberron/Faerun, Monsters of Faerun, Shining South, Unapproachable East, Underdark.

Monster Manual I

Bugbear, Dwarf, Elf, Githyanky, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Halfing, Hobgoblin, Kobold, Lizardfolk, Locathah, Merfolk, Orc, Troglodyte

Monster Manual II

Flind Gnoll, Forestkith Goblin, Kenku, Poison Dusk Lizardfolk

Monster Manual III

Dark Ones, Mongrelfolk

Races of Destiny

Illumian, Mongrelfolk, Sea Kin, Sharakim, Skulk, Underfolk

Races of the Wild

Raptoran, Catfolk

Races of Stone

Chaos Gnome, Dream Dwarf, Whisper Gnome

Races of Eberron

Kalashtar, Shifters (Inspired?)

Races of Faerun

Aquatic Elves, Avariels, Half-Aquatic Elf, Half-Drow, Gray Orc, Tainted One

Underdark

Chameleon Creature, Mineral Warrior, Phaerlock

Shining South

Tasloi

Monsters of Faerun

Asabi, Bullywug, Gibberling, Shalarin, Siv

Unapproachable East

Spirit Folk, Blooded One

I may have left a humanoid or two out, like the Artic Dwarf, because changing into one doesn't get you anything except looking like a really cold dwarf. Most useful are forms with good alternate movement forms (swim/fly).

I haven't seen any extraordinary special attacks (for a humanoid) in a WoTC book yet to match the two I found in Denizens of Darkness. Makes sense though. White Wolf did 3.0 Ravenloft, so they always have crazy powerful humans...
MayorMcNaked
10-18-05, 10:22 PM Interesting. Yeah, I haven't seen anything that compares to those two either. Hopefully I'll be able to talk my DM into allowing them. Hee hee. I've been wondering just what constitutes "natural weapons, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks," aside from the obvious such as claws, wings, burrowing, etc. For example could a cabinet trickster change into a drow or tiefling and gain the ability to cast darkness? Or into a lizardfolk and gain the natural armor bonus in addition to the claw and bite attacks?
dog45
10-18-05, 10:40 PM To answer your question, No.

The reason is that the Drows ability to cast Darkness is either a spell like ability or a supernatural ability (dont remember). Point is, the Change Shape granted by Cabinet Trickster only gives you eactly what you said - "natural weapons, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks". Look in pg 306 (i think) of the MM for the complete description of the Change Shape ability. No natural armor bonus, no spellcasting, no supernatural abilities. Still, it's a good ability to have, if only for 2 reasons.

1) The movement modes. Now you can fly, swim, and burrow to your hearts content. Also makes for more convincing disguises when you take the form of something with wings and can actually use them.

2) It's not a dead level in the PrC. The same level also grants you Detect Thoughts (and subsequent thought tricks) at will, which is reason enough to take the 5th level. The shapechanging ability is just extra awesomeness.

What's your build for CT? You mentioned warshaper. I'm taking Mindspy, myself, after I finish CT.
MayorMcNaked
10-18-05, 10:52 PM A rough approximation of the build I'll probably be going with can be found here.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=513671

I'll likely be using different feats though. And I'll probably be going into cabinet trickster sooner, taking the first two levels of warshaper, cabinet trickster to completion and then at least one more of warshaper for reach before progressing into mindspy. The idea being that, as I get the natural attacks of my new forms, warshaper allows me to up the size of my natural weapons, making claw and bite attacks a bit more worthwhile. Assuming I can get the Ravenloft material allowed, having morphic reach to allow me to stretch and make a claw attack to deliver poison doesn't seem too shabby either. And if not, well having longer range on my sneak attacks after stunning an opponent with a thought trick (or perhaps a phaerlock gaze attack) seems like it would come in handy. The morphic reach seems to fit pretty well flavor wise, as I see this as being a character who, if forced into a fight, prefers to do his fighting from a position where his opponent can't hit back. :)
dog45
10-18-05, 11:11 PM yeah, I remember reading that. There's a couple good builds there. But I went for the total social guy, to the basically complete lack of good combat abilities (save for thought tricks).

It's been cool. I sit back, either disguised as a non-combatant, or fake my death early in combat (bluff), and mess with the enemies heads. I won't pick up the Warshaper levels though, because the lack of skill points is death to my character. I'm still chringing about taking Mindspy for the same reason. I'll prolly end up something like Rog 6/CT 5/Mindspy 5/Rog 4

The last 4 Rogue levels are to get Slippery Mind, so if he goes Epic I can take the Void Incarnate PrC - http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a

Of course, I just got Magic of Incarnum today, so I may find something worthwhile in there for this build.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dog45 10-17-05, 07:25 PM	I'm playing a rogue 6/cabinet trickster 4, about to take the last level in CT and get 2 great abilities. 1) Detect Thoughts (and thought tricks) at will. 'Nuff said. 2) Change Shape into a Small or Medium Humanoid. Number 2 is the one I've been thinking about. I've looked through most of the books and found about 20-25 Humanoids to choose from. Most of them are pretty standard fare, nothing special. The only ones I really noted were the ones that had special movement rates (climb/swim/fly/burrow, etc). Short List for Movement Rates Swim Merfolk Sea Kin Burrow Asherati (sand only) Flight Raptoran Climb Snow Goblin While useful when the situation calls for it, none of them I found have any really cool extraordinary special attacks. Except for 2 of them, in the Ravenloft book Denizens of Dread. The Ermordenung has two (Ex) special attacks, both with a 2d4 Con Poison. In fact, if you simply touch the Big E's skin, or hit it with an unarmed attack, you have to save vs the poison. The poison attack works best with the Kiss (Ex) ability, because the DC is higher. The Human, Vistani is the other rocker and the bad boy of the two. You get to keep their Evil Eye (Ex) attack, which is a gaze attack with 4 different attack options. Paralyze, Fear, Dominate, and Suggestion. You can even kill with the Paralyze one. And the DC is based off your Charisma, and it's even higher if you're a female Vistani (which you can be since you changed shape to get there in the first place). Not everyone allows campaign specific stuff in another campaign world, but I thought these 2 were the best 2 forms I'd found so far for the uber social changeling trickster.
smrtgmp 10-17-05, 10:28 PM	This is a bit off topic, but if you're going for the ultimate social character, you might want to pick up a single level of warlock and grab the beguiling influence invocation. A +6 to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate is great, and, IIRC, its an unnamed bonus. It also gives you eldritch blast, which is a nice back up weapon (and nice for delivering ranged sneak attacks), especially if you're going somewhere where weapons are frowned upon.
MayorMcNaked 10-18-05, 05:21 PM	Actually, I'm working on building a similar character (albeit with warshaper thrown in to up my combat abilities). I was wondering if there's a list of all the "humanoid" races and what books they're in. I could see such a thing as being a valuable resource for any shapeshifter, but especially for the aspiring Cab Trickster, as they're limited to humanoid forms. Is there such a list somewhere? Inquiring changelings want to know.
dog45 10-18-05, 07:12 PM	This list isn't complete. Covered so far: Monster Manual I/II/III, Races of Destiny/Wild/Stone/Eberron/Faerun, Monsters of Faerun, Shining South, Unapproachable East, Underdark. Monster Manual I Bugbear, Dwarf, Elf, Githyanky, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Halfing, Hobgoblin, Kobold, Lizardfolk, Locathah, Merfolk, Orc, Troglodyte Monster Manual II Flind Gnoll, Forestkith Goblin, Kenku, Poison Dusk Lizardfolk Monster Manual III Dark Ones, Mongrelfolk Races of Destiny Illumian, Mongrelfolk, Sea Kin, Sharakim, Skulk, Underfolk Races of the Wild Raptoran, Catfolk Races of Stone Chaos Gnome, Dream Dwarf, Whisper Gnome Races of Eberron Kalashtar, Shifters (Inspired?) Races of Faerun Aquatic Elves, Avariels, Half-Aquatic Elf, Half-Drow, Gray Orc, Tainted One Underdark Chameleon Creature, Mineral Warrior, Phaerlock Shining South Tasloi Monsters of Faerun Asabi, Bullywug, Gibberling, Shalarin, Siv Unapproachable East Spirit Folk, Blooded One I may have left a humanoid or two out, like the Artic Dwarf, because changing into one doesn't get you anything except looking like a really cold dwarf. Most useful are forms with good alternate movement forms (swim/fly). I haven't seen any extraordinary special attacks (for a humanoid) in a WoTC book yet to match the two I found in Denizens of Darkness. Makes sense though. White Wolf did 3.0 Ravenloft, so they always have crazy powerful humans...
MayorMcNaked 10-18-05, 10:22 PM	Interesting. Yeah, I haven't seen anything that compares to those two either. Hopefully I'll be able to talk my DM into allowing them. Hee hee. I've been wondering just what constitutes "natural weapons, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks," aside from the obvious such as claws, wings, burrowing, etc. For example could a cabinet trickster change into a drow or tiefling and gain the ability to cast darkness? Or into a lizardfolk and gain the natural armor bonus in addition to the claw and bite attacks?
dog45 10-18-05, 10:40 PM	To answer your question, No. The reason is that the Drows ability to cast Darkness is either a spell like ability or a supernatural ability (dont remember). Point is, the Change Shape granted by Cabinet Trickster only gives you eactly what you said - "natural weapons, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks". Look in pg 306 (i think) of the MM for the complete description of the Change Shape ability. No natural armor bonus, no spellcasting, no supernatural abilities. Still, it's a good ability to have, if only for 2 reasons. 1) The movement modes. Now you can fly, swim, and burrow to your hearts content. Also makes for more convincing disguises when you take the form of something with wings and can actually use them. 2) It's not a dead level in the PrC. The same level also grants you Detect Thoughts (and subsequent thought tricks) at will, which is reason enough to take the 5th level. The shapechanging ability is just extra awesomeness. What's your build for CT? You mentioned warshaper. I'm taking Mindspy, myself, after I finish CT.
MayorMcNaked 10-18-05, 10:52 PM	A rough approximation of the build I'll probably be going with can be found here. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=513671 I'll likely be using different feats though. And I'll probably be going into cabinet trickster sooner, taking the first two levels of warshaper, cabinet trickster to completion and then at least one more of warshaper for reach before progressing into mindspy. The idea being that, as I get the natural attacks of my new forms, warshaper allows me to up the size of my natural weapons, making claw and bite attacks a bit more worthwhile. Assuming I can get the Ravenloft material allowed, having morphic reach to allow me to stretch and make a claw attack to deliver poison doesn't seem too shabby either. And if not, well having longer range on my sneak attacks after stunning an opponent with a thought trick (or perhaps a phaerlock gaze attack) seems like it would come in handy. The morphic reach seems to fit pretty well flavor wise, as I see this as being a character who, if forced into a fight, prefers to do his fighting from a position where his opponent can't hit back. :)
dog45 10-18-05, 11:11 PM	yeah, I remember reading that. There's a couple good builds there. But I went for the total social guy, to the basically complete lack of good combat abilities (save for thought tricks). It's been cool. I sit back, either disguised as a non-combatant, or fake my death early in combat (bluff), and mess with the enemies heads. I won't pick up the Warshaper levels though, because the lack of skill points is death to my character. I'm still chringing about taking Mindspy for the same reason. I'll prolly end up something like Rog 6/CT 5/Mindspy 5/Rog 4 The last 4 Rogue levels are to get Slippery Mind, so if he goes Epic I can take the Void Incarnate PrC - http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a Of course, I just got Magic of Incarnum today, so I may find something worthwhile in there for this build.