Can a Cleric Archer turn into an Arrow Demon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a Cleric Archer turn into an Arrow Demon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
doobiusPortugal
02-06-06, 05:14 AM Hello guys!

I was wondering if you could help me a bit here. The question I have for you is simple: how can a Cleric get Polymorph in his class/domain spell list? The goal is to become a Arrow Demon (MM3), so I can be a Cleric Archer with a little more power.

Party Level: 10. That's why I can't take the Animal Domain and get shapechange. At least not yet, and I would like to become a Arrow Demon at the start of the campaign.

Books Allowed: Everything except Psionics, Eberron and Incarnum, as long as it is 3.5 (no 3.0).

I think I've seen a build like that in the CO Boards before, but I couldn't find it... The build in itself is unimportant (it could as well be Cleric 20), because I already know what to do, it's the Polymorph question that is annoying me, as I can't find a domain with Polymorph...

Thanks for all your help!
nachtmeister
02-06-06, 09:24 AM take the spell domain ( or the initiate of mystra feat ) for greater anyspell :eek:
RadicalTaoist
02-06-06, 10:18 AM The problem is really acquiring the Outsider type so you can be Polymorphed into an Arrow Demon. What races are allowed?

Shapechanger Domain from Races of Eberron has Polymorph, but you're not allowed that. I think you'd best take the Otherworldly feat from PGtF to qualify.
J-A-R-N-O
02-06-06, 10:26 AM I second that Spell domain/Initiate of mystra for Greater Anyspell.

Besides Otherwordly and the lesser planetouched races in the PGtF, the best way to get outsider type for a cleric is IMO the Divine Disciple PrC in PGtF, though that way you'd have to wait for two levels.
doobiusPortugal
02-06-06, 10:30 AM I thought of playing a Lesser Aasimar (LA +0)... Just so I don't have to lose CL, or have to take levels in Divine Disciple, that would cap in a outsider at level 11...

I already know the trick of Greater Anyspell... It's just that it's a 6th level spell, and I would only get it at 13th CL. I'm sorry, I should really have explained better that I would like to do it at CL 10. If I can't do it, I'll choose Human as race of course (and take Divine Disciple so I can gain an outsider type), but my goal was shooting arrows like a madman as soon as we had the 1st encounter.

So, what do you think? is it possible? Thanks again for all your answers!
J-A-R-N-O
02-06-06, 11:07 AM You could just pay some wizard cast Polymorph another object on you. That way you could stay as an Arrow demon hoping you won't draw any Dispel magics from your enemies until you can get access to Greater anyspell. Though the Spellblade weapon enchantment will make this much easier.
Khazra Reborn
02-06-06, 11:12 AM Can't you just pay an NPC wizard to PaO you. Its relatively cheap IIRC. There are 2 or 3 0La outsiders in the planar handbook IIRC. Lesser aasimir doesn't work as they lose there outsider status.
EDIT>beaten to it...
Arismir
02-06-06, 11:23 AM Also the Saint template changes you into an outsider and gives some very useful bonuses to a Cleric.
Faithless the Wonder Boy
02-06-06, 11:26 AM Well, the simplest way would be to either take on the Lesser Aasimar race or the Otherworldly regional feat, if allowed, and then take the Magic domain to allow you to activate spell trigger items as a fifth-level wizard. Then just buy a scroll of polymorph (or several scrolls). I believe, if you really can't sacrifice the domain, the Arcane Schooling regional feat gives you similar abilities - but with a much greater screw-up chance, and is much cheesier.

Alternatively you could focus on UMD, though that would be a little more difficult for you. A scroll of polymorph would require a check of 24, and without anything special (6 ranks from cross-class, +6 Cha [18 start +2 levels +2 item will do it], +2 synergy bonus from Spellcraft) you can hit +14. Or, you could buy a wand (pricey, to get it at CL9 is 27000g, but you get 50 charges) and just have to worry about a DC20 check.

Of course, there are lots of ways to up that, from dipping into anything that makes it a class skill to more synergy bonuses to silly things like Nymph's Kiss...

Of course, this means that you'll be relying on buying your way into an arrow demon, and won't really ever be able to do it on your own, which may or may not be the best goal for you.
doobiusPortugal
02-06-06, 02:35 PM J-A-R-N-O: In my case I think that the Lesser Aasimar is better yhan otherwordly, because of the increase to Charisma. But if it comes to that, Otherwordly is a good feat to take as a Human to make me an outsider. The Polymorph Any Object idea is good; althogu I would prefer the next sugestion.

Faithless: I have thought of focusing on UMD... buying my scrolls until I can cast my own version of polymorph via Greater Anyspell. But I thought I couldn't do it, because the DC is really high: to attain 24 I need to roll a 12, until I remembered (by your post) that maybe it was feasible: I have a Cha of 20 (+5), a +2 charisma enhancement item, +6 cross-class ranks, +5 item (competence), +2 synergy through Spellcraft, which would get the roll to a 5 or more... that's less than 25% chances of failing, and it is a strong option to take...

If only there was a way to make UMD a class-skill it would be easier and cheaper to do it (I have to buy a lot of nightsticks, two good bows, a good armor, scarab of golembane, etc, etc, and on top of that, the stuff I need to pull the trick, BESIDES the scrolls of Polymorph). Do you know of something to do it? Still, I'm considering it.

Arismir: Saint is awesome, I know (at least in my opinion, I've come to contact with fellow players that don't think so), but I really can't afford to lose caster levels right now, and the option to buy-off the LA is not available... But I would take it if it were, of course.

Khazra Reborn: Hmm... I didn't know that... Maybe you're aware of some errata that I'm not? In wizards website the Lesser Aasimar race is an outsider even at LA+0, the only thing it gains when you advance the savage progression is Wis +2, the iconic spell and the full resistances... everything else is "built in" in Lesser Aasimar; unless, of course, that there is something I don't know, but to the best of my knowledge, this works...

Once again, thanks for all your help and answers!

[EDIT]: I have another question for you... Do you know of any deitie that has Greatbow as a favored weapon? I would prefer that he/she would not be evil, but I'll choose it anyway if I have to, to get Weapon Focus...
Slyver
02-06-06, 03:35 PM Personally, I think you are shooting yourself in the foot if you are going to put so much effort into getting it at 10. Seriuosly, just have wiz cast PAO on you or get a scroll of anyspell. You only have to wait 1 stinking level to be able to cast not polymorph, but draconic polymorph on yourself with the lovely +8 str, +2 con unamed bonuses, AND you can make it persistent...

I would personally focus on being able to maximize your character when that happens and try not to be so impatient. Is there some girl there you are trying to impress or something?

Slyver
doobiusPortugal
02-06-06, 04:27 PM Personally, I think you are shooting yourself in the foot if you are going to put so much effort into getting it at 10. Seriuosly, just have wiz cast PAO on you or get a scroll of anyspell. You only have to wait 1 stinking level to be able to cast not polymorph, but draconic polymorph on yourself with the lovely +8 str, +2 con unamed bonuses, AND you can make it persistent...

I would personally focus on being able to maximize your character when that happens and try not to be so impatient. Is there some girl there you are trying to impress or something?

Slyver

LOL... really, your post made me laugh. Amusingly, of course! Actually you kind of hit the spot there... ;) But it's not just for that, obviously. My group powerplays all the time, and gamewise everyone is just too competitive... I haven't said it in the original post, but I was playing a psion, and, despite having quite low scores, I beat everyone in the party (the challenge was allways their idea, I don't pick PvP fights) at their own game; so, they challenged me to do something: 4d6, no re-roll, and no assigning scores; everything should be assigned in order. I got

11
14
11
17
17
13

So, I can only mak a MT (which I don't like anyway) or a CoDzilla. I chose the Divine Cleric, and I bet none of them has seen Arrow Demon, or it being applied to a character. My girlfriend, which also plays in the group, challenged me the most, so... I'm kinda stuck to being the best thing I can be AND something that she has never seen before. So, yes, I'm trying to impress (more :D ) a girl...

But in a more serious note, maybe I can convince my DM to rule that there should be a Shapechanger Domain in FR, or simply take the "Please, take these 5,000 gp and PoA me into a Demon Arrow, please"... I don't know what will be the outcome of the roleplay, but it sure as hell will be funny and entertaining to play a Infernal in the streets of Waterdeep... :D

Thanks for your patience and answers!
Gavinfoxx
02-06-06, 04:43 PM post deleted. wrong thread.
Vorlir
02-06-06, 05:09 PM huh? your thread? :confused:
DisposableHero_
02-06-06, 05:16 PM There are 2 or 3 0La outsiders in the planar handbook IIRC. Lesser aasimir doesn't work as they lose there outsider status.Actually, I think Neraphim is the only LA +0 outsider in the Planar Handbook, but they would be a solid choice here, since they have no stat penalties to wisdom or anything of the sort. The rest are either LA +1 or Humanoid (Extraplanar) rather than outsider.
HalasterAteMyHamster
02-06-06, 05:25 PM There's a regional feat in Player's Guide to Faerun called Otherworldly which changes your type to Outsider. Have to be an Elf or Human to take it, though.
Esponer
02-06-06, 05:35 PM Persist Greater Visage of the Deity, then get your hands on Greater Anyspell and persist Draconic Polymorph. Use a dip in Spelldancer for persisting, rather than Divine Metamagic. Find a way to not have to worry about the Spelldancer's pathetic attempt at limiting you (personally, I went Runesmith and created a permanent Rune of Heal, put it on one of the bows I intended to use as an arrow demon, and triggered it whenever I needed to remove fatigue/ability damage while spelldancing).
jstorrie
02-06-06, 05:48 PM Lesser Aasimar is your best bet for easy Outsiderness. Magic domain or UMD + wand, staff or scroll of polymorph, or a friendly arcane caster are your best bets for easy Polymorphing. With only regular Polymorph at your disposal, though, Arrow Demon form isn't that enticing. It may not be worth all the work when you already have so many other Cleric tricks at your disposal - I wouldn't bother without Shapechange.
PhaedrusXY
02-06-06, 06:14 PM Well, the simplest way would be to either take on the Lesser Aasimar race or the Otherworldly regional feat, if allowed, and then take the Magic domain to allow you to activate spell trigger items as a fifth-level wizard. Then just buy a scroll of polymorph (or several scrolls). I believe, if you really can't sacrifice the domain, the Arcane Schooling regional feat gives you similar abilities - but with a much greater screw-up chance, and is much cheesier.I'd go with this, but use a Staff with Polymorph in it. How many HD is an Arrow Demon, anyway?
gabrion
02-06-06, 06:24 PM Well one way to do this is to "kinda" be a cleric.

Human (w/ otherwordly feat)
Ninja 2/Ranger 2/Cleric 1/Chameleon 5

Crank you wisdom as high as possible and get a lesser rod of extend to make hour hour/level buffs on all day long (GMW, Magic Vestment, Longstrider, Darkvision, Greater Mage Armor, Spikes, etc). Make this a divine meta persistent build and you can have polymorph (from the adept spell list) active all day long. You'll also be getting some nice bonuses to damage and attacks if you use combat focus.

If you can, pick up a composite longbow (adjusted to your STR w/ divine power running) with the splitting special ability on it. In the end you'll be shooting 12 arrows/round, each doing something like 1d8+9 damage (average 162 if all of them hit, which they wont).

Sorry this doesn't match the "cleric archer" build exactly, but it's what I would use if I were you.
ksbsnowowl
02-06-06, 06:39 PM Does polymorph exist anywhere on any divine list? I think it is on the Ranger's.

Play an Archivist (Heroes of Horror - also displayed on the website) and you can be a cleric caster that can also cast any other divine spell.

You'd even get a bonus metamagic feat at 10th level. Assuming you are Good, you could take a level of Sacred Exorcist to get Turning, and then pick up Divine Meta Persist at character level 11 when you take the 10th level of archivist.
PhaedrusXY
02-06-06, 06:49 PM Does polymorph exist anywhere on any divine list? I think it is on the Ranger's.It was in 3.0, but they removed it in 3.5.
ksbsnowowl
02-06-06, 06:56 PM That's too bad, and sort of stupid.
doobiusPortugal
02-06-06, 07:00 PM With only regular Polymorph at your disposal, though, Arrow Demon form isn't that enticing. It may not be worth all the work when you already have so many other Cleric tricks at your disposal - I wouldn't bother without Shapechange.

Do you really think so? I'm no expert at this, but I thought you would get almost every relevant ability (apart from summoning) to archery... it even gets close combat shot as an extraordinary special attack, as well as the ability to weild bows larger one size than him wothout penalty...

I think the best it's that Demon Arrow has medium size, thus allowing to expand your size in some way (Divine Favor, for example) and still stack. The only downside is to not being able to get Supernatural Abilities (yet), but I can perfectly play without them - mine are sufficient :D .

Gabrion, you got something going there... I don't know exactly what it is, but I'll look into it - I just love Chameleon, and any build that includes it is never
without a lot of flavour.

PhaedrusXY, Demon Arrow is an Infernal (Outsider, of course) with 10 HD, and some awesome capabilities in ranged combat...
PhaedrusXY
02-06-06, 07:15 PM That's too bad, and sort of stupid.Yeah, that really made me mad when I first saw the 3.5 ranger. I was one of the crowd that was highly against it when it was first revealed. I think I even contributed to some of those "alternate ranger class" threads back then. ;)
ksbsnowowl
02-06-06, 07:24 PM Ah, just saw that the Adept does get Polymorph as a 4th level spell. Thus Archivist may be the best option.

And just because it might be handy, here is the Lowest level versions of spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=515321) thread.
doobiusPortugal
02-06-06, 09:36 PM WOW, thanks, snow! that thread is awesome...
doobiusPortugal
02-07-06, 09:37 AM One question, guys: where is the Splitting Enchantment? I can't find it... I must be overlooking some book...

Thanks!
J-A-R-N-O
02-07-06, 11:21 AM Splitting is from Champions of Ruin.
doobiusPortugal
02-07-06, 12:44 PM Doh.... Thanks... I hadn't look in it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
doobiusPortugal 02-06-06, 05:14 AM	Hello guys! I was wondering if you could help me a bit here. The question I have for you is simple: how can a Cleric get Polymorph in his class/domain spell list? The goal is to become a Arrow Demon (MM3), so I can be a Cleric Archer with a little more power. Party Level: 10. That's why I can't take the Animal Domain and get shapechange. At least not yet, and I would like to become a Arrow Demon at the start of the campaign. Books Allowed: Everything except Psionics, Eberron and Incarnum, as long as it is 3.5 (no 3.0). I think I've seen a build like that in the CO Boards before, but I couldn't find it... The build in itself is unimportant (it could as well be Cleric 20), because I already know what to do, it's the Polymorph question that is annoying me, as I can't find a domain with Polymorph... Thanks for all your help!
nachtmeister 02-06-06, 09:24 AM	take the spell domain ( or the initiate of mystra feat ) for greater anyspell :eek:
RadicalTaoist 02-06-06, 10:18 AM	The problem is really acquiring the Outsider type so you can be Polymorphed into an Arrow Demon. What races are allowed? Shapechanger Domain from Races of Eberron has Polymorph, but you're not allowed that. I think you'd best take the Otherworldly feat from PGtF to qualify.
J-A-R-N-O 02-06-06, 10:26 AM	I second that Spell domain/Initiate of mystra for Greater Anyspell. Besides Otherwordly and the lesser planetouched races in the PGtF, the best way to get outsider type for a cleric is IMO the Divine Disciple PrC in PGtF, though that way you'd have to wait for two levels.
doobiusPortugal 02-06-06, 10:30 AM	I thought of playing a Lesser Aasimar (LA +0)... Just so I don't have to lose CL, or have to take levels in Divine Disciple, that would cap in a outsider at level 11... I already know the trick of Greater Anyspell... It's just that it's a 6th level spell, and I would only get it at 13th CL. I'm sorry, I should really have explained better that I would like to do it at CL 10. If I can't do it, I'll choose Human as race of course (and take Divine Disciple so I can gain an outsider type), but my goal was shooting arrows like a madman as soon as we had the 1st encounter. So, what do you think? is it possible? Thanks again for all your answers!
J-A-R-N-O 02-06-06, 11:07 AM	You could just pay some wizard cast Polymorph another object on you. That way you could stay as an Arrow demon hoping you won't draw any Dispel magics from your enemies until you can get access to Greater anyspell. Though the Spellblade weapon enchantment will make this much easier.
Khazra Reborn 02-06-06, 11:12 AM	Can't you just pay an NPC wizard to PaO you. Its relatively cheap IIRC. There are 2 or 3 0La outsiders in the planar handbook IIRC. Lesser aasimir doesn't work as they lose there outsider status. EDIT>beaten to it...
Arismir 02-06-06, 11:23 AM	Also the Saint template changes you into an outsider and gives some very useful bonuses to a Cleric.
Faithless the Wonder Boy 02-06-06, 11:26 AM	Well, the simplest way would be to either take on the Lesser Aasimar race or the Otherworldly regional feat, if allowed, and then take the Magic domain to allow you to activate spell trigger items as a fifth-level wizard. Then just buy a scroll of polymorph (or several scrolls). I believe, if you really can't sacrifice the domain, the Arcane Schooling regional feat gives you similar abilities - but with a much greater screw-up chance, and is much cheesier. Alternatively you could focus on UMD, though that would be a little more difficult for you. A scroll of polymorph would require a check of 24, and without anything special (6 ranks from cross-class, +6 Cha [18 start +2 levels +2 item will do it], +2 synergy bonus from Spellcraft) you can hit +14. Or, you could buy a wand (pricey, to get it at CL9 is 27000g, but you get 50 charges) and just have to worry about a DC20 check. Of course, there are lots of ways to up that, from dipping into anything that makes it a class skill to more synergy bonuses to silly things like Nymph's Kiss... Of course, this means that you'll be relying on buying your way into an arrow demon, and won't really ever be able to do it on your own, which may or may not be the best goal for you.
doobiusPortugal 02-06-06, 02:35 PM	J-A-R-N-O: In my case I think that the Lesser Aasimar is better yhan otherwordly, because of the increase to Charisma. But if it comes to that, Otherwordly is a good feat to take as a Human to make me an outsider. The Polymorph Any Object idea is good; althogu I would prefer the next sugestion. Faithless: I have thought of focusing on UMD... buying my scrolls until I can cast my own version of polymorph via Greater Anyspell. But I thought I couldn't do it, because the DC is really high: to attain 24 I need to roll a 12, until I remembered (by your post) that maybe it was feasible: I have a Cha of 20 (+5), a +2 charisma enhancement item, +6 cross-class ranks, +5 item (competence), +2 synergy through Spellcraft, which would get the roll to a 5 or more... that's less than 25% chances of failing, and it is a strong option to take... If only there was a way to make UMD a class-skill it would be easier and cheaper to do it (I have to buy a lot of nightsticks, two good bows, a good armor, scarab of golembane, etc, etc, and on top of that, the stuff I need to pull the trick, BESIDES the scrolls of Polymorph). Do you know of something to do it? Still, I'm considering it. Arismir: Saint is awesome, I know (at least in my opinion, I've come to contact with fellow players that don't think so), but I really can't afford to lose caster levels right now, and the option to buy-off the LA is not available... But I would take it if it were, of course. Khazra Reborn: Hmm... I didn't know that... Maybe you're aware of some errata that I'm not? In wizards website the Lesser Aasimar race is an outsider even at LA+0, the only thing it gains when you advance the savage progression is Wis +2, the iconic spell and the full resistances... everything else is "built in" in Lesser Aasimar; unless, of course, that there is something I don't know, but to the best of my knowledge, this works... Once again, thanks for all your help and answers! [EDIT]: I have another question for you... Do you know of any deitie that has Greatbow as a favored weapon? I would prefer that he/she would not be evil, but I'll choose it anyway if I have to, to get Weapon Focus...
Slyver 02-06-06, 03:35 PM	Personally, I think you are shooting yourself in the foot if you are going to put so much effort into getting it at 10. Seriuosly, just have wiz cast PAO on you or get a scroll of anyspell. You only have to wait 1 stinking level to be able to cast not polymorph, but draconic polymorph on yourself with the lovely +8 str, +2 con unamed bonuses, AND you can make it persistent... I would personally focus on being able to maximize your character when that happens and try not to be so impatient. Is there some girl there you are trying to impress or something? Slyver
doobiusPortugal 02-06-06, 04:27 PM	Personally, I think you are shooting yourself in the foot if you are going to put so much effort into getting it at 10. Seriuosly, just have wiz cast PAO on you or get a scroll of anyspell. You only have to wait 1 stinking level to be able to cast not polymorph, but draconic polymorph on yourself with the lovely +8 str, +2 con unamed bonuses, AND you can make it persistent... I would personally focus on being able to maximize your character when that happens and try not to be so impatient. Is there some girl there you are trying to impress or something? Slyver LOL... really, your post made me laugh. Amusingly, of course! Actually you kind of hit the spot there... ;) But it's not just for that, obviously. My group powerplays all the time, and gamewise everyone is just too competitive... I haven't said it in the original post, but I was playing a psion, and, despite having quite low scores, I beat everyone in the party (the challenge was allways their idea, I don't pick PvP fights) at their own game; so, they challenged me to do something: 4d6, no re-roll, and no assigning scores; everything should be assigned in order. I got 11 14 11 17 17 13 So, I can only mak a MT (which I don't like anyway) or a CoDzilla. I chose the Divine Cleric, and I bet none of them has seen Arrow Demon, or it being applied to a character. My girlfriend, which also plays in the group, challenged me the most, so... I'm kinda stuck to being the best thing I can be AND something that she has never seen before. So, yes, I'm trying to impress (more :D ) a girl... But in a more serious note, maybe I can convince my DM to rule that there should be a Shapechanger Domain in FR, or simply take the "Please, take these 5,000 gp and PoA me into a Demon Arrow, please"... I don't know what will be the outcome of the roleplay, but it sure as hell will be funny and entertaining to play a Infernal in the streets of Waterdeep... :D Thanks for your patience and answers!
Gavinfoxx 02-06-06, 04:43 PM	post deleted. wrong thread.
Vorlir 02-06-06, 05:09 PM	huh? your thread? :confused:
DisposableHero_ 02-06-06, 05:16 PM	There are 2 or 3 0La outsiders in the planar handbook IIRC. Lesser aasimir doesn't work as they lose there outsider status.Actually, I think Neraphim is the only LA +0 outsider in the Planar Handbook, but they would be a solid choice here, since they have no stat penalties to wisdom or anything of the sort. The rest are either LA +1 or Humanoid (Extraplanar) rather than outsider.
HalasterAteMyHamster 02-06-06, 05:25 PM	There's a regional feat in Player's Guide to Faerun called Otherworldly which changes your type to Outsider. Have to be an Elf or Human to take it, though.
Esponer 02-06-06, 05:35 PM	Persist Greater Visage of the Deity, then get your hands on Greater Anyspell and persist Draconic Polymorph. Use a dip in Spelldancer for persisting, rather than Divine Metamagic. Find a way to not have to worry about the Spelldancer's pathetic attempt at limiting you (personally, I went Runesmith and created a permanent Rune of Heal, put it on one of the bows I intended to use as an arrow demon, and triggered it whenever I needed to remove fatigue/ability damage while spelldancing).
jstorrie 02-06-06, 05:48 PM	Lesser Aasimar is your best bet for easy Outsiderness. Magic domain or UMD + wand, staff or scroll of polymorph, or a friendly arcane caster are your best bets for easy Polymorphing. With only regular Polymorph at your disposal, though, Arrow Demon form isn't that enticing. It may not be worth all the work when you already have so many other Cleric tricks at your disposal - I wouldn't bother without Shapechange.
PhaedrusXY 02-06-06, 06:14 PM	Well, the simplest way would be to either take on the Lesser Aasimar race or the Otherworldly regional feat, if allowed, and then take the Magic domain to allow you to activate spell trigger items as a fifth-level wizard. Then just buy a scroll of polymorph (or several scrolls). I believe, if you really can't sacrifice the domain, the Arcane Schooling regional feat gives you similar abilities - but with a much greater screw-up chance, and is much cheesier.I'd go with this, but use a Staff with Polymorph in it. How many HD is an Arrow Demon, anyway?
gabrion 02-06-06, 06:24 PM	Well one way to do this is to "kinda" be a cleric. Human (w/ otherwordly feat) Ninja 2/Ranger 2/Cleric 1/Chameleon 5 Crank you wisdom as high as possible and get a lesser rod of extend to make hour hour/level buffs on all day long (GMW, Magic Vestment, Longstrider, Darkvision, Greater Mage Armor, Spikes, etc). Make this a divine meta persistent build and you can have polymorph (from the adept spell list) active all day long. You'll also be getting some nice bonuses to damage and attacks if you use combat focus. If you can, pick up a composite longbow (adjusted to your STR w/ divine power running) with the splitting special ability on it. In the end you'll be shooting 12 arrows/round, each doing something like 1d8+9 damage (average 162 if all of them hit, which they wont). Sorry this doesn't match the "cleric archer" build exactly, but it's what I would use if I were you.
ksbsnowowl 02-06-06, 06:39 PM	Does polymorph exist anywhere on any divine list? I think it is on the Ranger's. Play an Archivist (Heroes of Horror - also displayed on the website) and you can be a cleric caster that can also cast any other divine spell. You'd even get a bonus metamagic feat at 10th level. Assuming you are Good, you could take a level of Sacred Exorcist to get Turning, and then pick up Divine Meta Persist at character level 11 when you take the 10th level of archivist.
PhaedrusXY 02-06-06, 06:49 PM	Does polymorph exist anywhere on any divine list? I think it is on the Ranger's.It was in 3.0, but they removed it in 3.5.
ksbsnowowl 02-06-06, 06:56 PM	That's too bad, and sort of stupid.
doobiusPortugal 02-06-06, 07:00 PM	With only regular Polymorph at your disposal, though, Arrow Demon form isn't that enticing. It may not be worth all the work when you already have so many other Cleric tricks at your disposal - I wouldn't bother without Shapechange. Do you really think so? I'm no expert at this, but I thought you would get almost every relevant ability (apart from summoning) to archery... it even gets close combat shot as an extraordinary special attack, as well as the ability to weild bows larger one size than him wothout penalty... I think the best it's that Demon Arrow has medium size, thus allowing to expand your size in some way (Divine Favor, for example) and still stack. The only downside is to not being able to get Supernatural Abilities (yet), but I can perfectly play without them - mine are sufficient :D . Gabrion, you got something going there... I don't know exactly what it is, but I'll look into it - I just love Chameleon, and any build that includes it is never without a lot of flavour. PhaedrusXY, Demon Arrow is an Infernal (Outsider, of course) with 10 HD, and some awesome capabilities in ranged combat...
PhaedrusXY 02-06-06, 07:15 PM	That's too bad, and sort of stupid.Yeah, that really made me mad when I first saw the 3.5 ranger. I was one of the crowd that was highly against it when it was first revealed. I think I even contributed to some of those "alternate ranger class" threads back then. ;)
ksbsnowowl 02-06-06, 07:24 PM	Ah, just saw that the Adept does get Polymorph as a 4th level spell. Thus Archivist may be the best option. And just because it might be handy, here is the Lowest level versions of spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=515321) thread.
doobiusPortugal 02-06-06, 09:36 PM	WOW, thanks, snow! that thread is awesome...
doobiusPortugal 02-07-06, 09:37 AM	One question, guys: where is the Splitting Enchantment? I can't find it... I must be overlooking some book... Thanks!
J-A-R-N-O 02-07-06, 11:21 AM	Splitting is from Champions of Ruin.
doobiusPortugal 02-07-06, 12:44 PM	Doh.... Thanks... I hadn't look in it.