Post/Author/DateTime	Post
omizell 01-19-06, 11:58 PM	Everyone I know believes that clerics are medical boxes I really want to show them how clerics can kick ass I'd like to know what kind of feats and abilitys etc. to take to show of the fighting cleric. I'll be starting at level 10 and I was thinking about half dragon because of the many racial bonuses. basically the cleric would be self managable lol healing itself fighting whatever. I only have the basic domains for a cleric and I'd also like others opinions on what to take to be really strong. Ability scores: 14,14,15,16,16,17 Im not really good at requesting these kinda things if you guys even were able to read this far any help would siriously be apreciated.
Kuroi Kenshi 01-20-06, 12:39 AM	Need to know books available. Extremely important to know that. Aside from that, starting at level 10 is great for you. Also, never take a LA race with a casting character. There are a few exceptions, but I don't think Half Dragon + Cleric is one of them. All I can say for now :P
Warlock33 01-20-06, 01:02 AM	With those stats you shouldn't have a problem. do the normal divine metamagic (persistent) "cheese", if you don't know how it's listed many places on this board. Make divine power persistent...ta daa, now your BAB is the same as the fighter, your strength is on par with him, and you have some temp hps. Extend greater magic weapon on your weapon for a better weapon than anyone else in the party. The possibilities are endless really, I'm way too tired to give you more options though. A core cleric owns a core fighter at 10th level, it's really not even hard to do it.
PhoenixInferno 01-20-06, 01:34 AM	Half-Dragon is the WORST thing you could do to yourself. Three HD you lost, 3 caster levels you lost...in exchange for...what? Bonuses to strength that you could replicate with spells?
Alaghor 01-20-06, 01:35 AM	I would arrange the stats as: Str:16 Dex:14 Con:15 Int:14 Wis:17 Chr:16 Increase strength at your 4th and 8th level attribute increases. Feats would very considerably. Simple ones such as power attack and divine might would be my first choices. I do agree that you should not be a race that has level adjustments. Spell selection would also be great but start with Divine Power and Righteous Might. Also look at prestige classes such as the war priest and templar. For books look at Exalted deeds and Complete Divine. I hope this helps
omizell 01-20-06, 10:13 PM	I have all three core rulebooks to work with. I know half dragon and almost all other ecl races kinda ruin casters but dragon had alot of bonuses and seemed like a really cool idea. I'd like to hear suggestions for other races :) Im not sure what the divine metamagic feats are There in complete divine right? -so again ability scores to work with: 14 14 15 16 16 17 -I have the three core rulebooks -starting at 10th lvl -thinking about half dragon but probobly not anymore sence I really do loose 3HD -I'll be casting buff spells and spontaniously casting heal spells thats all I got so far :confused: maybe I should go with spontanious inflict inflict spells??
Alamout Servant 01-21-06, 12:43 AM	don't go with spontaneous inflict spells! go for human, for the bonus feat. if you have access to complete divine, take the following build: domains: luck, planning 1- power attack, persistent spell 3- divine metamagic (persistent spell) 6- extra turning 9- extra turning with a 16 in cha, you'll have 14 turn attempts. note that with divine meta (persistent), you can trade in 7 turn attempts to make a spell last 24 hours. grab a morningstar, full plate, and if you can afford it, an animated tower shield. also try and go for a bead of karma, from the "strand of prayer beads" from the dmg. in the morning, activate your bead of karma. your CL is now 14. now do the following: cast divine power, making it persistent. this gives you bab +10, a strength of 22 or so, etc. good start, eh? cast greater magic weapon on your morningstar. it now is a +3 weapon. this'll last 14 hours, so most of the day. cast magic vestment on your animated shield (if you can't afford an animated shield, don't use a shield - you'll get better returns from power attack if you wield your morningstar 2-handed) and your plate mail. now you have an ac of 10 +1 dex +11 plate mail +7 shield, or 29. pretty good start, probably a lot better than the fighter, and you can use the tower shield for cover when you're casting spells. cast divine favor, making it persistent. now you have a +3 luck bonus to attack and damage, all day. good stuff. for your first round in battle, take cover behind your tower shield and cast righteous might. if you're using the errata'd version, you just hit strength of 26. if you're using the phb version, that's a strength of 30. for argument's sake, let's assume you're using the errata'd version. if you can pick up a rod of metamagic (extend), might want to extend it. now draw your morningstar. your attack bonus is: +10 bab -1 size +8 str +3 enhancement +3 divine favor ...or, +23/+18, meaning on average you can hit things with an ac in the 30s. for damage, we have... 2d6 (1d8 bumps to 2d6 when made large from righteous might) +12 str +3 enhancement +3 divine favor or, 2d6+18, for an average of 25 points of damage per hit. okay, that's pretty good for a start. now start pumping stuff into power attack and you'll easily keep up with the fighter or barbarian, without anything fancy. and you can heal things, cast align weapon for those annoying enemies with damage reduction, dispel, cure various nasty ailments, buff up the rest of the party with prayer and similar spells, summon monsters, etc. I'm playing a cleric now (ranged attack, not melee, but some similar principles) and it's loads of fun. sure, an optimized barbarian might theoretically be able to do more damage, but can they do it with an ac of 29 and an array of backup spells that will be big help to the party? and can they also do fun things like duck under their tower shield, summon a big and nasty monster that's good at grappling (look at the fiendish monstrous scorpions on the summon monster list, they have killer grapple checks), cast silence on it, and send it to grapple a spellcaster to make them useless? or follow their spells up with a raise dead after your rogue bit it disarming that last trap? trust me, they won't look at you as a walking band-aid for long. (PS- even if you don't have access to divine metamagic, there are still ways to play an awesome cleric!)
Alamout Servant 01-21-06, 12:49 AM	for a core-only cleric, again focus on having heavily enchanted stuff from greater magic weapon and magic vestment. same principles as the persistent spell machine, but take the Luck/Strength domains, and at the beginning of combat, duck behind your tower shield to cast divine favor/divine power/righteous might, extending it with a rod if possible. since you don't need to feed divine metamagic with extra turning, consider taking quicken spell and making divine favor a level 5 quickened spell. so, cast divine power round 1, then quickened divine favor/righteous might/draw your weapon round 2. since you don't really need to buy a magic weapon, you could also consider making your morningstar adamantine, and taking improved sunder. I'm a big fan of sundering opponent's weapons, and with a strength of 26-30 and being large sized, you'll be able to sunder a whole lot.
X-Codes 01-21-06, 01:17 AM	Stat Block: S 14, D 15, C 16, I 14, W 17, Ch 16 All level-ups to Wisdom. Weapon: Spear, Longspear Spells of note: Divine Power, Spikes, Riteous Might... Seriously, unless you make an ubercharger then Clerics are always 100% better than Fighters, and they don't even need domains to be that way.
Kuroi Kenshi 01-21-06, 01:21 AM	If I were you I'd revise the title of this thread to, "Can a Core Cleric Outfight a Fighter or Barbarian?", or something similar that points out that you're only working with core books. Assuming you can't use complete divine and thus the divine metamagic line of feats, here are some suggestions. This is not an exhaustive list! Race: Human or Dwarf Domains: Travel, Luck, Strength, War, Trickery, Animal, Magic If you aren't allowed to select domains and be faithless, here are some deities: Fharlanghn(luck, travel) Kord(luck, strength) Olidammara(luck, trickery) Feats: Extend Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Power Attack, Cleave Spells: Divine favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment
omizell 01-21-06, 06:26 PM	alright thank you all for the help with the cleric I really think this thread will come in handy in the future :D