Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uthred 03-28-05, 08:34 AM	Is it possible for a necromancer to compare with the power of a druids summons ? It would seem (especially at small levels) that the druid's options are superior to that of the necromancer (using summon undead), for example, compare an augmented large skeleton to an augmented greenbound hippogriff. Any suggestions on how to give the necromancers summon more oomph ?
Griff_Goodbeard 03-28-05, 09:01 AM	Summon Undead, as written in LM is totally broken and in my opinion blows SNA out of the water. Maybe not for sheer outy of combat vesitility but in combat SU rocks. IIRC SU 4 lets you summon huge skeleton, or lg Zombie, or 2 lg skeletons. Take a look at whats available. Wow :eek:
GryMor 03-28-05, 09:18 AM	There are a hell of a lot more feats that can amp undead than there are that can amp normal summons, take a look at Libris Mortis's Corpse Crafter feats. Also. necromancers can create undead and can get large multipliers on their control limit.
djinni 03-28-05, 09:42 AM	necromancers can create undead and can get large multipliers on their control limit. and don't overlook in LM when you summon an undead, you can take the skeleton, or zombie template and slap it on to anything (as long as it could be made into it normally....
Eidolon Faer 03-28-05, 01:03 PM	Mmmmm....Zombie Darktentacles...
Uthred 04-08-05, 01:21 PM	and don't overlook in LM when you summon an undead, you can take the skeleton, or zombie template and slap it on to anything (as long as it could be made into it normally.... Isnt there a HD limit on this or can you summon CR5 skeletal ettins with it ?
Griff_Goodbeard 04-08-05, 01:27 PM	There should be a limit, but RAW it only gives size limitations. So IIRC with SU5 You can summon 1 Huge Zombie. It can be any monster so long as it's huge. I heard it was errata'd after PGtF came out, but in LM it's broke again. Go figure :confused:
Apathy Man 04-08-05, 02:20 PM	In the game I am running, one of the players is playing a Conjurer / alienist that also makes liberal use of the summon undead. I do use the hit die limit listed in the errata for PGTF and with that it's really not that bad. I limit what can be summoned to creatures right out of the book with the skeleton or zombie template applied and nothing else. To get custom created summonings ie "I want an allip that has feat X and y" is a little trickier. The party has recently "aquired" a base of operations that has a portal to a sort of demiplane like area. It is only a few rooms in size. The party plans to use that as a sort of storage area for specially created undead to be summoned. So if they want a ettin zombie equipped with admantium full plate and two flaming great axes each wielded one handed they wil go find an ettin with monkey grip, kill him, animate him, equip him and put him in dead body storage. That way they can summon a really buffed up zombie. It will also allow them to make use of the corpse crafter feats from libris mortis in the creation of their special troops. If they want to spend the time and expense for this plan I am all for it. By the way this is an EVIL party and works better together than almost any other party I've ran in 20+ years so it can be done. They're like the legion of doom. And using this method the conjurer is extremley powerful.
Father Dale 04-08-05, 08:08 PM	If you have access to it, check out the Age of Mortals book from the Dragonlance campaign. It has a series of spells named Call Undead. Call Undead I, II, III.....up to IX at ninth level, just like summon monster. The charts in the Age of Mortals book is much different than the ones in the Libris Mortis. A lot of the things on the libris mortis list appear much lower than the AOM list. Example. Call Undead II to summon one allip. Summon Undead IV to summon one allip. The 9th lvl versions can get Nightshades and Nightwalkers, as well as 7 HD vampires. I think these work better, because undead can be easily countered in a number of ways. A single cleric of equal level to the caster of Call Undead can easily turn/rebuke whatever gets summoned.
pentagonal_penguin 04-09-05, 12:29 AM	Get a cleric of any level. Have him spend 825gp on a staff of summon undead V, CL 11, one charge (or 50 charges, 50 charges to use). Have him cast it, and choose to summon 4 creatures from the summon undead III list. Have him choose skeletal 12 headed hydras. Have said hydras full-attack one round later for 48 bite attacks. Broken? Yes. And this is using the PGtF errata. I emailed customer service about this. Guess what? "At this time there is no errata for these spells. Ultimately, the only limit on this are those imposed by your DM. I'll be happy to pass along your feedback however."