Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chimaera2000 12-26-06, 08:21 PM	Hello! I'm currently re-building a level 10 elven wizard entering into Jade Phoenix Mage (Tome of Battle). I originally built him as a Wizard 5/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 4, but I forgot that I wouldn't be able to fit 3rd-level warblade maneuvers into the build. I was particularly hoping to get Iron Heart Surge and White Raven tactics, meaning I'd have to take my warblade level at level 9+. My question is this: is it possible to enter and stay in a gish prestige class during levels 6-8, preferably without losing caster levels? I've been looking into various gish classes (spellsword, knight phantom, abjurant champion et al), and I'm not sure if it's possible to achieve my build's goals without spending feats on Martial Study or multiclassing into non-spellcasting classes. However, could someone double-check in case I've missed something? Thanks a lot; I know this is a tricky request. Build: Level 10 elven wizard, built as a gish and entering Jade Phoenix Mage. Goals: To achieve 3rd-level warblade maneuvers while (preferably) maintaining good BAB and full spellcasting. Books Available: Any WotC book or other source.
QuarianRex 12-26-06, 08:35 PM	You already have 3rd level maneuvers with that build. You initiator level is equal to your levels in martial adept classes + 1/2 your levels in all other classes. Wizard 5/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 4 would give you an initiator level of (5*1/2)+1+4=7 (rounded down). As a 7th level initiator you have access to 4th level and lower maneuvers.
Evillain 12-26-06, 09:09 PM	If you want the most caster levels, you can take the feat that gives you a maneuver twice, and the one that gives you a stance once and enter Jade pheonix mage without any warblade. Now its not optimal but if you really want the most caster levels, that's the way to go. But the optimized gish will go QuarianRex's way.
Adolph_Kheebler 12-26-06, 11:16 PM	If you just want maneuvers known and don't need to ready more, you can always purchase the items that grant them. It says you must meet the prerequisites for each maneuver you take. Look at the prerequisites: I don't remember seeing level anywhere under prerequisites. 3rd level maneuvers could be bought for 3000gp each.
Chimaera2000 12-28-06, 08:03 PM	You already have 3rd level maneuvers with that build. You initiator level is equal to your levels in martial adept classes + 1/2 your levels in all other classes. Wizard 5/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 4 would give you an initiator level of (5*1/2)+1+4=7 (rounded down). As a 7th level initiator you have access to 4th level and lower maneuvers. Sorry for the confusion. Fitting in 3rd-level maneuvers is no big deal for a Jade Phoenix Mage, but the problem is that they can only be Desert Wind and Devoted Spirit maneuvers. What I'm trying to do is be able to qualify for 3rd-level warblade maneuvers before I enter Jade Phoenix Mage so I can grab Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics. If you want the most caster levels, you can take the feat that gives you a maneuver twice, and the one that gives you a stance once and enter Jade pheonix mage without any warblade. Now its not optimal but if you really want the most caster levels, that's the way to go. But the optimized gish will go QuarianRex's way. I might just resort to taking the feats for Iron Heart Surge and White Raven tactics. It seems like a bit of a waste, but I haven't been able to figure out any gish prestige classes than I can qualify for without sacrificing feats and/or spellcasting levels anyway. Darn BAB requirements.... :( If you just want maneuvers known and don't need to ready more, you can always purchase the items that grant them. It says you must meet the prerequisites for each maneuver you take. Look at the prerequisites: I don't remember seeing level anywhere under prerequisites. 3rd level maneuvers could be bought for 3000gp each. I never thought of this before, thanks! I'll have to take a look at the book when I get back home from visiting to see if this works for my character.