Can i weild a monk? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can i weild a monk? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DreW-666
11-07-03, 03:15 AM Can i weild a monk? as a monk?
dual weild?

It seems possibal in 3.5

with the apporiate feats of course.

just take leadership.

does he count as a reach weapon ?

stacking flurry of blows goodness.

if only unarmed strike could be concidered masterwork.
catharz
11-07-03, 03:22 AM You might be able to wield one.

You would, however, have to use the rules for improvised weapons.
goblinhero
11-07-03, 03:51 AM oops double post
goblinhero
11-07-03, 03:54 AM Originally posted by DreW-666
Can i weild a monk? as a monk?
dual weild?

It seems possibal in 3.5

with the apporiate feats of course.

just take leadership.

does he count as a reach weapon ?

stacking flurry of blows goodness.

if only unarmed strike could be concidered masterwork.
first... start paying attention in english class dude

second.. probably only if you're big enough. Fling Enemy from SS requires you to be two sizes larger than the enemy, or in this case, a monk, you happen to be flinging :D
sparkster4242
11-07-03, 03:57 AM I played a pacifist berserker back in 2ed. He refused martial training, but spent so much time in a frothing rage that he managed to pick up weapon profs like elf, dwarf, mage, and cleric.

A monk would certainly be an improvised weapon, or an exotic one. Trying to mix in flurry of blows sounds doomed to getting laughed at, tho.
One thing to watch out for is, the weapon-monk could only make its own attacks on its turn, not on its wielder's. The wielder can attack on his turn, but at that point, the weapon is not much superior to a large-ish stick. There may be some benefit to the 'aid another' action, but i would have to think some more about that.

Another thing to consider is that a monk is 'not' on the list of special monk weapons. This will interfere with 3.0 unarmed progression, and may also interfere with flurry in 3/3.5.

A medium creature being wielded as a weapon would, in my opinion, be useable as a reach weapon.

Hmm, masterwork unarmed strike... There was a 2ed psionicist power which could accomplish that, i think. I seem to recall it allowed the psionicist to re-work any weapon (including fist, for example) to give it either +1 to hit or +1 to damage. Would a prosthetic limb be considered 'unarmed', if it were shaped exactly like the limb it replaced? You may be on to something here :P
inci
11-07-03, 07:24 AM Originally posted by sparkster4242

Another thing to consider is that a monk is 'not' on the list of special monk weapons. This will interfere with 3.0 unarmed progression, and may also interfere with flurry in 3/3.5.

:rofl:
draegl0th
11-07-03, 01:13 PM The following are necessary in order to wield a monk effectively:

1) Play a Large size character (e.g. Half-Ogre)
2) Choose Exotic Weapon Master, so you can wield a halfing monk, elf monk, dwarf monk etc. as heavy weapons without taking multiple EWPs
3) Enlarge Person is helpful, make sure you can cast the spell through an item or Cleric's strength domain.
4) Once you have access to Enlarge Person, take Monkey Grip so you can dual wield halfing monks.

Have fun and enjoy! :angel:
catharz
11-07-03, 01:30 PM Originally posted by draegl0th

4) Once you have access to Enlarge Person, take Monkey Grip so you can dual wield halfing monks.

Have fun and enjoy! :angel:

Monk-y grip ;)
DreW-666
11-08-03, 02:16 AM umm excuse my typing but my keyboard is ****** and i am sleepy.

In response to the post that thinks i am trying to hit someone with these monks I am not.

Simply hold a monk in eatch hand (provided you have the str req.)
and let them flurry on there own while you continue to kick and headbutt people.

re: unarmedstrike

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

and combined with the shadowlord loophole just makes me laugh.

ohoh. a warhulk weilding a monk. and they even count as +1 weapons that can stun! :eek:

lol
Hadel Ionque
11-08-03, 02:46 PM Are you serious? lol, the whole idea is laughable actually.

You are aware that characters cannot be used as weapons right?

Lol: "Why get martial weapon proficiency when I can just wield my fighter cohort?"
draegl0th
11-08-03, 04:58 PM Why not? You can even wield bunnies as weapons if you're an Exotic Weapon Master.
Hadel Ionque
11-08-03, 05:06 PM I am not gonna spend any more of my valuable time posting in this stupid, stupid thread.
Grim Sage
11-08-03, 06:41 PM Alright, here's a Halfling Monk Throwing Build:

Start out as a Large character, Half-Ogre for example.
Better yet, take the templates from Dragon #313 and apply one of them to a human (bonus feat!). Make him Feral to receive Improved Grab.

Monk really isn't much use here, for the reasons oted by Sparkster4242. This, of course, if different for your followers.
You'll be aiming for Exotic Weapon Master and War Hulk.
Taking the Exoticist fighter variant from Dragon #310 makes things a LOT easier, but it isn't required. It saves up 3 feats when you take it, however, so consider Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Two-Weapon Fighting if you're allowed to use the class.

Barbarian2/Fighter4/War Hulk9/Exotic Weapon Master5
Taking the last level of War Hulk would be nice in Epic.

Feats:
1 Power Attack
1 EWP: Halfling
3 EWP: Gnome (for when you run out of halflings)
3 EWP: Heavy Halfling (for the fat ones)
4 Cleave
6 Quick Draw
6 Leadership
9 Fling Enemy
12 Hurling Charge
15 Weapon Focus: Halfling
18 Weapon Specialization: Halfling

The only real quip rules-wise (apart from the wielding halflings in combat thing) is becoming a size larger before lvl 9. This is best accomplished by getting a Permanent Enlarge cast upon you, though there may be better (more permanent) alternatives.

Assuming a Charisma of 18, the fact that he has special power and great renown (throwing halflings is special and makes you well-known, no doubt about that), a base of operations, and the fact that halflings tend to die every so often when flung (which might be considered cruel by some), his leadership score would be 25 at lvl 20 (ECL 22).
Assuming ECL 20 for the moment, thus a Leadership of 23, he'd have access to 110 halflings plus a cohort, who will of course be a monk.
Of those 110, 11 can have levels in Monk.
This gives you 12 monks to work with. A Bag of Holding should do the trick if you think a Quiver of Ehlonna is too cruel.

Now for the advantages:

BAB +11/+6/+1
Throw 3 halflings a round with quickdraw! (4 if you managed to get Rapid Shot, and 5 if you got Two-Weapon Fighting too)

+18 strength: remember thrown weapons add your Str mod to damage!

Greater Sweeping Boulder: Halflings usually weigh about 34 pounds. Choose some well-built ones and add in the equipment, they should hit 50 pounds nicely.
Now, have them roll up tight and hit 4 enemies at once!

Fling Enemy: For long range, this is the best option. Flung halflings have a range increment of 120 ft. (as opposed to 50 ft. when used as makeshift rock, or 10 ft. when just improvised), and do 1d6 damage/20ft. thrown.

Hurling Charge: If you're running out of halflings, you might want to charge up to melee range. Chuck another one while you're on the way.

All in all, you have several options:
*Throw a halfling as improvised weapon, range increment 10 ft, damage 2d6+2+18 (assuming str 46) 3 attacks/round in a full attack action.
*Throw a halfling as Sweeping Boulder, hitting 4 spaces in a row, and adding your Str mod to hit instead of your Dex mod. Range increment 50 ft, damage 2d8+20
*Throw a halfling as Flung Enemy. Range increment 120 ft. Damage 1d6/20 ft. thrown +20. Nice for artillery, but soaks up actions.
*Hit opponents around you with a wielded halfling. 3 spaces at a time, 3/round in a full attack action.

I'll leave you with these issues:
* Would a higher-level monk (say, your cohort) count as a Masterwork Halfling?
* Would there be any way to bestow 'returning' on a halfling?

There were no halflings harmed in the writing of this post. The execution of the ideas presented here might have diffeent results however.
sparkster4242
11-08-03, 10:23 PM Just holding the monks and letting them attack sounds a little like the 'aid another' action to me. I say go for it :P

Good job on the halfling build. Dont forget that a halfling monk can have MF, MW and Greater versions cast on him.

'Perfect Self' sounds sorta like 'masterwork'. If ya squint just right.

As long as the halflings have a range-increment, they can receive ranged-weapon enchantments. Of course, to do that they would have to be masterwork halflings. Perhaps an appropriate Craft (Performance?) check when crafting the halflings could do the job?
Ximal
11-08-03, 11:43 PM and if can the monks you weild weild monks themselves? and can THOSE monks? and those? and . . . those . . . and . . .

TREE OF MONKS!
DreW-666
11-09-03, 04:09 AM Is there an equiviliant to "throw anything" from the S & F , for melee combat?

What are the rules on weilding objects?

The monk you are weilding would still take up a square and get his own init. .

or would you count as occupying the same square?

If i want to hit you with this large table is it only non-proficiency penaltys?

:censored:
Talyen42
11-12-03, 11:27 AM Originally posted by Ximal
and if can the monks you weild weild monks themselves? and can THOSE monks? and those? and . . . those . . . and . . .

TREE OF MONKS!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That would be an interesting encounter
bitnine
11-12-03, 11:35 AM At first I thought the title of this thread was "Can I weld a monk?"

To which my answer was going to be: "Well, yes, but you're likely to get a headache from all the screaming."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DreW-666 11-07-03, 03:15 AM	Can i weild a monk? as a monk? dual weild? It seems possibal in 3.5 with the apporiate feats of course. just take leadership. does he count as a reach weapon ? stacking flurry of blows goodness. if only unarmed strike could be concidered masterwork.
catharz 11-07-03, 03:22 AM	You might be able to wield one. You would, however, have to use the rules for improvised weapons.
goblinhero 11-07-03, 03:51 AM	oops double post
goblinhero 11-07-03, 03:54 AM	Originally posted by DreW-666 Can i weild a monk? as a monk? dual weild? It seems possibal in 3.5 with the apporiate feats of course. just take leadership. does he count as a reach weapon ? stacking flurry of blows goodness. if only unarmed strike could be concidered masterwork. first... start paying attention in english class dude second.. probably only if you're big enough. Fling Enemy from SS requires you to be two sizes larger than the enemy, or in this case, a monk, you happen to be flinging :D
sparkster4242 11-07-03, 03:57 AM	I played a pacifist berserker back in 2ed. He refused martial training, but spent so much time in a frothing rage that he managed to pick up weapon profs like elf, dwarf, mage, and cleric. A monk would certainly be an improvised weapon, or an exotic one. Trying to mix in flurry of blows sounds doomed to getting laughed at, tho. One thing to watch out for is, the weapon-monk could only make its own attacks on its turn, not on its wielder's. The wielder can attack on his turn, but at that point, the weapon is not much superior to a large-ish stick. There may be some benefit to the 'aid another' action, but i would have to think some more about that. Another thing to consider is that a monk is 'not' on the list of special monk weapons. This will interfere with 3.0 unarmed progression, and may also interfere with flurry in 3/3.5. A medium creature being wielded as a weapon would, in my opinion, be useable as a reach weapon. Hmm, masterwork unarmed strike... There was a 2ed psionicist power which could accomplish that, i think. I seem to recall it allowed the psionicist to re-work any weapon (including fist, for example) to give it either +1 to hit or +1 to damage. Would a prosthetic limb be considered 'unarmed', if it were shaped exactly like the limb it replaced? You may be on to something here :P
inci 11-07-03, 07:24 AM	Originally posted by sparkster4242 Another thing to consider is that a monk is 'not' on the list of special monk weapons. This will interfere with 3.0 unarmed progression, and may also interfere with flurry in 3/3.5. :rofl:
draegl0th 11-07-03, 01:13 PM	The following are necessary in order to wield a monk effectively: 1) Play a Large size character (e.g. Half-Ogre) 2) Choose Exotic Weapon Master, so you can wield a halfing monk, elf monk, dwarf monk etc. as heavy weapons without taking multiple EWPs 3) Enlarge Person is helpful, make sure you can cast the spell through an item or Cleric's strength domain. 4) Once you have access to Enlarge Person, take Monkey Grip so you can dual wield halfing monks. Have fun and enjoy! :angel:
catharz 11-07-03, 01:30 PM	Originally posted by draegl0th 4) Once you have access to Enlarge Person, take Monkey Grip so you can dual wield halfing monks. Have fun and enjoy! :angel: Monk-y grip ;)
DreW-666 11-08-03, 02:16 AM	umm excuse my typing but my keyboard is ****** and i am sleepy. In response to the post that thinks i am trying to hit someone with these monks I am not. Simply hold a monk in eatch hand (provided you have the str req.) and let them flurry on there own while you continue to kick and headbutt people. re: unarmedstrike Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes. and combined with the shadowlord loophole just makes me laugh. ohoh. a warhulk weilding a monk. and they even count as +1 weapons that can stun! :eek: lol
Hadel Ionque 11-08-03, 02:46 PM	Are you serious? lol, the whole idea is laughable actually. You are aware that characters cannot be used as weapons right? Lol: "Why get martial weapon proficiency when I can just wield my fighter cohort?"
draegl0th 11-08-03, 04:58 PM	Why not? You can even wield bunnies as weapons if you're an Exotic Weapon Master.
Hadel Ionque 11-08-03, 05:06 PM	I am not gonna spend any more of my valuable time posting in this stupid, stupid thread.
Grim Sage 11-08-03, 06:41 PM	Alright, here's a Halfling Monk Throwing Build: Start out as a Large character, Half-Ogre for example. Better yet, take the templates from Dragon #313 and apply one of them to a human (bonus feat!). Make him Feral to receive Improved Grab. Monk really isn't much use here, for the reasons oted by Sparkster4242. This, of course, if different for your followers. You'll be aiming for Exotic Weapon Master and War Hulk. Taking the Exoticist fighter variant from Dragon #310 makes things a LOT easier, but it isn't required. It saves up 3 feats when you take it, however, so consider Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Two-Weapon Fighting if you're allowed to use the class. Barbarian2/Fighter4/War Hulk9/Exotic Weapon Master5 Taking the last level of War Hulk would be nice in Epic. Feats: 1 Power Attack 1 EWP: Halfling 3 EWP: Gnome (for when you run out of halflings) 3 EWP: Heavy Halfling (for the fat ones) 4 Cleave 6 Quick Draw 6 Leadership 9 Fling Enemy 12 Hurling Charge 15 Weapon Focus: Halfling 18 Weapon Specialization: Halfling The only real quip rules-wise (apart from the wielding halflings in combat thing) is becoming a size larger before lvl 9. This is best accomplished by getting a Permanent Enlarge cast upon you, though there may be better (more permanent) alternatives. Assuming a Charisma of 18, the fact that he has special power and great renown (throwing halflings is special and makes you well-known, no doubt about that), a base of operations, and the fact that halflings tend to die every so often when flung (which might be considered cruel by some), his leadership score would be 25 at lvl 20 (ECL 22). Assuming ECL 20 for the moment, thus a Leadership of 23, he'd have access to 110 halflings plus a cohort, who will of course be a monk. Of those 110, 11 can have levels in Monk. This gives you 12 monks to work with. A Bag of Holding should do the trick if you think a Quiver of Ehlonna is too cruel. Now for the advantages: BAB +11/+6/+1 Throw 3 halflings a round with quickdraw! (4 if you managed to get Rapid Shot, and 5 if you got Two-Weapon Fighting too) +18 strength: remember thrown weapons add your Str mod to damage! Greater Sweeping Boulder: Halflings usually weigh about 34 pounds. Choose some well-built ones and add in the equipment, they should hit 50 pounds nicely. Now, have them roll up tight and hit 4 enemies at once! Fling Enemy: For long range, this is the best option. Flung halflings have a range increment of 120 ft. (as opposed to 50 ft. when used as makeshift rock, or 10 ft. when just improvised), and do 1d6 damage/20ft. thrown. Hurling Charge: If you're running out of halflings, you might want to charge up to melee range. Chuck another one while you're on the way. All in all, you have several options: Throw a halfling as improvised weapon, range increment 10 ft, damage 2d6+2+18 (assuming str 46) 3 attacks/round in a full attack action. Throw a halfling as Sweeping Boulder, hitting 4 spaces in a row, and adding your Str mod to hit instead of your Dex mod. Range increment 50 ft, damage 2d8+20 Throw a halfling as Flung Enemy. Range increment 120 ft. Damage 1d6/20 ft. thrown +20. Nice for artillery, but soaks up actions. Hit opponents around you with a wielded halfling. 3 spaces at a time, 3/round in a full attack action. I'll leave you with these issues: * Would a higher-level monk (say, your cohort) count as a Masterwork Halfling? * Would there be any way to bestow 'returning' on a halfling? There were no halflings harmed in the writing of this post. The execution of the ideas presented here might have diffeent results however.
sparkster4242 11-08-03, 10:23 PM	Just holding the monks and letting them attack sounds a little like the 'aid another' action to me. I say go for it :P Good job on the halfling build. Dont forget that a halfling monk can have MF, MW and Greater versions cast on him. 'Perfect Self' sounds sorta like 'masterwork'. If ya squint just right. As long as the halflings have a range-increment, they can receive ranged-weapon enchantments. Of course, to do that they would have to be masterwork halflings. Perhaps an appropriate Craft (Performance?) check when crafting the halflings could do the job?
Ximal 11-08-03, 11:43 PM	and if can the monks you weild weild monks themselves? and can THOSE monks? and those? and . . . those . . . and . . . TREE OF MONKS!
DreW-666 11-09-03, 04:09 AM	Is there an equiviliant to "throw anything" from the S & F , for melee combat? What are the rules on weilding objects? The monk you are weilding would still take up a square and get his own init. . or would you count as occupying the same square? If i want to hit you with this large table is it only non-proficiency penaltys? :censored:
Talyen42 11-12-03, 11:27 AM	Originally posted by Ximal and if can the monks you weild weild monks themselves? and can THOSE monks? and those? and . . . those . . . and . . . TREE OF MONKS! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That would be an interesting encounter
bitnine 11-12-03, 11:35 AM	At first I thought the title of this thread was "Can I weld a monk?" To which my answer was going to be: "Well, yes, but you're likely to get a headache from all the screaming."