Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rod Howard 02-08-05, 08:26 AM	make a staff with Caster Level 0 so that it costs NOTHING and is made in no time?
carnivore 02-08-05, 08:29 AM	yes ....... its called a stick :D
Rod Howard 02-08-05, 08:33 AM	yes ....... its called a stick :D But you can use your own caster level with it. Cheap level 9 spells. Joy of all warlocks. A staff with 50 Polar Ray charges at Caster Level 0. Incredible.
Mommy was an Orc 02-08-05, 08:34 AM	All spells need a caster level of at least 1. However, with staffs, you don't actually get a choice - you can't just make a staff of any spell you want - srd/dmg limits it to specific staffs containing 'several' spells. make a staff with Caster Level 0 so that it costs NOTHING and is made in no time?
Rod Howard 02-08-05, 08:42 AM	All spells need a caster level of at least 1. However, with staffs, you don't actually get a choice - you can't just make a staff of any spell you want - srd/dmg limits it to specific staffs containing 'several' spells. I don't think so: see page 287. It gives instructions on how to build specific staffs apart from those normally listed.
carnivore 02-08-05, 08:44 AM	actually you can make NEW Types of staffs......the Guidelines are found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041221a just skip down to here:"Let's suppose we create a new staff, the staff of remediation. We'll give this staff a caster level of 16th, and the following powers: greater restoration (2 charges), atonement (3 charges), break enchantment (2 charges),and remove curse. This staff has a base price of 83,498 gp, which was calculated as follows:........................." :D
Jeremymc 02-08-05, 08:48 AM	Well, sure. A staff of "ray of frost". But cast at 20th level, ray of frost still does 1 point of damage. I suppose it'd be useful if you were an arcane trickster, or a rogue... but really... there are no level 0 spells that have caster-level dependent effects.
Rod Howard 02-08-05, 08:54 AM	Well, sure. A staff of "ray of frost". But cast at 20th level, ray of frost still does 1 point of damage. I suppose it'd be useful if you were an arcane trickster, or a rogue... but really... there are no level 0 spells that have caster-level dependent effects. The spell level can be whatever you want, as soon as caster level is as low as possible. For example, a Staff of Wish at Caster Level 1 would cost 3375 (base price).
lonewolf 02-08-05, 08:58 AM	The minimum Casterlevel for a spell in an Item is the minimum Casterlevel required to cast the spell normally. That also means for example that a wand of fireball made by a sorcerer has a minimum casterlevel of 6.
Mommy was an Orc 02-08-05, 08:58 AM	How about page 243 - the first paragraph on staffs in the staffs section: "A staff is a long shaft of wood that stores several spells. Unlike wands, which can contain a wide variety of spells, each staff is of a certain kind and holds specific spells." It also states on the same page that the minimum caster level is 8th. Those instructions are for the DM wanting to add a staff or two, not a PC wanting to come up with a Staff of Wish. I don't think so: see page 287. It gives instructions on how to build specific staffs apart from those normally listed.
Jeremymc 02-08-05, 08:59 AM	Well, now that's just silly. And you should devote some time to reading over item creation rules. You can't craft an item to cast a spell at a lower caster level than the spell requires.
carnivore 02-08-05, 09:00 AM	go to the link and see this: "Caster Level: Setting the caster level for a staff works much like setting the caster level for a wand, but there are a few catches. A staff has one caster level for all the spells it can produce, and that caster must be at least 8th. As with a wand, however, the caster level must be at least as high as the caster level the creator would have to have to cast any of the spells stored in the staff, and no higher than the creator's caster level. For example, suppose a staff can produce several different spell effects, including sleep and mass suggestion. A 1st-level wizard can cast a sleep spell, but no staff has a caster level lower than 8th. In addition, mass suggestion is a 6th-level spell for a wizard, so the staff would have to have a caster level of at least 11th." hope it helps :D
Rod Howard 02-08-05, 09:01 AM	Well, now that's just silly. And you should devote some time to reading over item creation rules. You can't craft an item to cast a spell at a lower caster level than the spell requires. What determines the required caster level to cast a spell? An Ur-Priest can cast Miracles at Caster Level 10. Suel Arcanamachs can cast third level spells at caster level 4.
djinni 02-08-05, 09:05 AM	The spell level can be whatever you want, as soon as caster level is as low as possible. For example, a Staff of Wish at Caster Level 1 would cost 3375 (base price). doesn't the caster level have to be a minimum of the ability to cast the spell regardless of what caster level is used to actually cast the spell? those guidelines are given in the DMG for creating magic items, it also gives guidelines on the escalation of extremely cheap home made magic items (like the 50 charges of wish for under 4,000gp) through the use of loop holes
carnivore 02-08-05, 09:07 AM	then it would be a case by case situation.......an Ur priest could make a staff that could cast a spell at a lower caster lvl possibly than a cleric, it would just be whatever the caster lvl that he was so as to cast the spell himself......but no lower than 8th lvl. :D
Rod Howard 02-08-05, 09:09 AM	then it would be a case by case situation.......an Ur priest could make a staff that could cast a spell at a lower caster lvl possibly than a cleric, it would just be whatever the caster lvl that he was so as to cast the spell himself......but no lower than 8th lvl. :D I'm sure they've missed an item like skull talismans or spell wafers or origamis or whatever that can hold any spell, cast at the caster's caster level, without that nasty minimum CL line. If we find it, we'll be GODS OF ITEM CREATION! *Rallies the troops*
Jeremymc 02-08-05, 09:17 AM	For things like spell-storing items, somewhere along the line you need a wizard who can legitimately cast those spells (i.e. high enough base caster level), and that's the Level of those spells. And as for the Ur-Priest, don't even... the Ur-Priest is a walking tear in the fabric of rational space. 10 PrC levels for 9th level spells? Meh. But even so, his caster level is not JUST 10. It's 10 + whatever he had before. Anyhow - there's no way to simply cast Wish at caster level 0. Even items like a ring of wishes have the caster level of whoever cast wish INTO them.
Rod Howard 02-08-05, 09:27 AM	For things like spell-storing items, somewhere along the line you need a wizard who can legitimately cast those spells (i.e. high enough base caster level), and that's the Level of those spells. And as for the Ur-Priest, don't even... the Ur-Priest is a walking tear in the fabric of rational space. 10 PrC levels for 9th level spells? Meh. But even so, his caster level is not JUST 10. It's 10 + whatever he had before. Anyhow - there's no way to simply cast Wish at caster level 0. Even items like a ring of wishes have the caster level of whoever cast wish INTO them. What if I'm emulating it through Imbue Item? Or I'm a Beholder Mage?
Jeremymc 02-08-05, 11:00 PM	There simply is no way to get a free lunch here. It's been tried and tried. The Wish spell cannot simply be emulated for free, and certainly NOT at caster level 0. Any emulation must come with the equivalent caster level. Barring some insane method I'm not aware of. I honestly don't know why a beholder mage would be special, as they also have caster levels... And neither do I know why Imbue Item would somehow negate caster level as well...
ancalimohtar 02-08-05, 11:14 PM	I don't understand the controversy. The rules seem cut-and-dried. Let SCL = caster level you make the staff to function with Both of these have to be satisfied: 1. SCL > 8 2. SCL > minimum required to cast the spell by the character creating the item So an Ur-Priest making a Staff of Miracle could drop SCL to 9, but a Cleric making a similar staff must make SCL at least 17. What's the problem? And don't say the Ur-Priest is some kind of unholy blight upon the mechanics of DnD. The Blighter (no pun intended) also has a similar spellcasting progression, and so do many arcane PrCs.
Tempest Stormwind 02-08-05, 11:45 PM	The only "free" wish is one of the more highly contested cheeses in D&D, and the core behind The Wish build -- summoning a genie and having it grant you a wish. (In The Wish's case, he said "I wish for a ring of infinite wishes" -- which, under 3.5 rules, is a legal use of Wish provided you spend the XP needed. The Genie is another entity here.) ancalimohtar speaks the truth.
Rod Howard 02-09-05, 11:14 PM	I don't understand the controversy. The rules seem cut-and-dried. Let SCL = caster level you make the staff to function with Both of these have to be satisfied: 1. SCL > 8 2. SCL > minimum required to cast the spell by the character creating the item So an Ur-Priest making a Staff of Miracle could drop SCL to 9, but a Cleric making a similar staff must make SCL at least 17. What's the problem? And don't say the Ur-Priest is some kind of unholy blight upon the mechanics of DnD. The Blighter (no pun intended) also has a similar spellcasting progression, and so do many arcane PrCs. How do I determine the minimum caster level for an item crafted with the Imbue Item ability then?
Lord Likk 02-09-05, 11:31 PM	it still doesn't matter. all magical items, from beads of force to swords of kas, have caster levels. by the rules, cl 0 is not a caster level, it's the lack of one. the item is not magical if it has no caster level. what is imbue item and how does it work?
Jeremymc 02-10-05, 12:36 AM	Whatever "Imbue Item" is (psionic? Artificer? Do you mean "spell-storing"??), barring it being something really wierd and strange, all you have to do is find the equivalent level of the actual spell that the item casts, including all built-in metamagics, and that's the caster level of the item. So to create a Ring of Three Wishes, for example, the caster level would need to be at least enough to cast the Wish spell. Or for a wand of fireballs, the caster level would need to be AT LEAST enough to cast the spell "fireball". Other than that, it's pretty much up to you. You could make a wand of magic missles cast the spell at caster level 18, or 2. Whatever you desire!
Tempest Stormwind 02-10-05, 12:41 AM	Imbue Item is the Warlock item creation ability, although the same problem exists for the artificer. In all likelyhood, you'd craft it either at the item's caster level or at the minimum level a WIZARD OR CLERIC could cast the spell. To use a Prestige Class caster level, you probably MUST be that prestige class. I know it sounds a bit corny, but I'd bet a shiny nickel that's what people thought when it was written.
Lord Likk 02-10-05, 12:53 AM	just not spells of a certain level per day, and even their at-will sla's have spell-level equivalents. can you use imbue items to create spell effects of spells you can't cast? if so, i hope you have to at least have a warlock cl high enough to cast it if you were a wizard, for example, instead (i.e. 11 for disintegrate, 17 for wish, etc.) or the ability is completely insanely broken. if not, what's the big deal? you can only put warlock invocations, or, perhaps, eldritch blasts in it anyway.
Jeremymc 02-10-05, 01:18 AM	I don't understand the controversy. The rules seem cut-and-dried. Yah right.. Aren't they always? And don't say the Ur-Priest is some kind of unholy blight upon the mechanics of DnD. The Blighter (no pun intended) also has a similar spellcasting progression, and so do many arcane PrCs. Yah, the Blighter has a similar progression. But It's not NEARLY as open to endless abuse as the Ur-Priest is. I can think of a way to grant the Ur-Priest three times as many 9th level spells per day as ANY OTHER character class. As well as three times as many spells in general. It's just eminently abusable thanks to certain rule-holes that exist. But I suppose you're right about Ur-Priest Item creation. Technically, they do cast those spells at a reduced Caster Level. Which is wierd, and makes it cheaper to make items as an Ur-Priest than it does as an Artificer (in some cases). Just another Ur-Priest rule-hole to fill.
ancalimohtar 02-10-05, 05:57 AM	Yah, the Blighter has a similar progression. But It's not NEARLY as open to endless abuse as the Ur-Priest is. I can think of a way to grant the Ur-Priest three times as many 9th level spells per day as ANY OTHER character class. As well as three times as many spells in general.Really? I'd really like to know how, as one of the reasons I'm leery of playing an Ur-Priest is its terrible number of spells/day for the higher level spells.
Jeremymc 02-10-05, 09:58 AM	Well, it's pretty simple. You spend all of your treasure and a bunch of experience calling demons or fallen angels with spellcasting levels (I love a "corrupted Ghaele Eladrin", BTW) with the "channelling" abilty via. "planar ally" spells. Then channel them via. the new "channelling" rules (UA, I think, and Eberron). There is no limit to how many angels/devils a person can channel at one time. NONE. You can channel three, four, five, whatever... You now have access to all of the spell-like and supernatural abilities of FIVE separate angels/devils, and using the Ur-Priest's abilities, can sacrifice any and all of their spell slots to power your high-level spells. Want to cast Mord's Disjunction five or six times a day? Just sacrifice enough lower-level spell slots and the ability is yours.
Mommy was an Orc 02-10-05, 11:04 AM	Even if a DM went for that, Siphon Spell Power can only be used to prepare a single higher-level spell and Ur-Priests can only do this once per day. Want to cast Mord's Disjunction five or six times a day? Just sacrifice enough lower-level spell slots and the ability is yours.
Tealgorthian 02-10-05, 01:12 PM	The only thing I can think of are the three Mage Slayer feats that each lower your caster level by 4. So, you could effectively have a -12 caster level, which at 12th level would give you a caster level of 0, and access to all your spells. Said spells would just suck.
Jeremymc 02-10-05, 01:51 PM	Even if a DM went for that, Siphon Spell Power can only be used to prepare a single higher-level spell and Ur-Priests can only do this once per day. Hmmm... I don't remember either of those caveats on the ability. Aah well, guess I'll have to read it again. In that case, that makes the Ur-Priest a little less broken.
Mommy was an Orc 02-10-05, 03:27 PM	They buried it in the text instead of putting the once a day right in the beginning as they usually do. Not by much, though. Hmmm... I don't remember either of those caveats on the ability. Aah well, guess I'll have to read it again. In that case, that makes the Ur-Priest a little less broken.