Can someone help me magic proof my Blackguard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can someone help me magic proof my Blackguard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elorean
10-01-04, 03:11 PM Hey guys. Well, I've been playing D&D for quite some time now. Ever since I was in the 3rd grade if I recall correctly. At any rate, I've never really considered the possibility of tweaking out a character to where all his skills and such combine to make him/her an unbeatable force of power. I would just pick a class that I thought you be fun to play, and got skills or whatever that seemed like they'd be cool to have.

However, after reading these forums, everyone seems to be making what they call "munchkins" I believe? So I have a 1 Paladin/10 Blackguard right now, and our DM is letting us make a level 15 character to be in a high level campaign. So I'm missing 4 levels. Now, I want him to be really evil. He's already a half-fiend and got a good backstory. Thing is, I also want him to be really magic resistant. I want him to be able to laugh in the faces of magic users while he knocks a fireball they had just cast back at them or something like that.

I wouldn't mind giving up a few levels in blackguard since all we really get past level 5 is a sneak attack bonus (correct me if I'm wrong there). Oh, and well, I suppose the fiendish summoning and undead companion things are pretty cool too though. The fiendish servant at level 5 would be enough since it levels up with character level and not BG level.

So that leaves me with a potential 9 levels. I guess technically, you can't level drain yourself as a paladin until level 11, which means if I were only a level 5 blackguard, I'd lose my paladin abilities like lay on hands and smite good. No biggie. I've still got my blackguard spells.

So anyways, can you guys help me out? I guess the way I'd want to go about doing things would be start off as one class, get the requirements to become a BG, get to level 5 BG and then do whatever else you guys can think of to help me out with my magic resistance deal.

Also, if you reference any class outside of the Player's Handbook or the DM's Guide, can you please tell me what book you found it in? And please don't abbreviate because chances are I won't know what you're talking about. Also, if you could describe why the classes you mention would go good with how I want my BG to turn out, that'd be a world of help.

Thanks in advance guys and gals!
rilem
10-01-04, 03:29 PM everyone seems to be making what they call "munchkins" I believe? ...

First off, no they're not, and most people find the term insulting.

Second: You've got a Half-Fiend Pal1/Blackguard10 and you're looking for a 15th level character? Half-Fiends have a level adjustment of +4. You've already got a 15th level character; you're not missing any levels at all.

Third: You know half-fiends get magic resistance 10+class levels, right? You have SR 21 at your current level.

Now, what to do with your remaining levels? Three levels of Hexblade (complete warrior) will get you CHA to saves vs. spells (effectively doubling your Dark Blessing ability) as well as Mettle -- both very good. Two levels of Warrior of Darkness (Book of Vile Darkness) can get you a couple other nice bonuses and give you great flexibility in customizing your weapons.

So: Half-Fiend Pal1/Blackguard10/Hexblade3/WarriorofDarkness2.
BAB 16, saves13/4/8
Blade2718
10-01-04, 03:42 PM Boost your Cha sky-high and you'll make all the saves against spells targeting you.
Elorean
10-01-04, 03:43 PM Didn't mean to come off as a total noob there... Just pretty new to anything beyond 2nd Edition. Anyhow, our DM is letting us forgo the level adjustment.

yeah, I know we get the spell resistance. But I want to make him so spell resistant he's practically negating magic by just walking upto a magic user. That's probably impossible at this level (if it's not, let me know!) but you get the idea of where I want to take this guy.
rilem
10-01-04, 03:51 PM Most spell resistance hovers around 10+level (12+caster level for the spell) -- and it doesn't stack. On its own, it's not great, especially with your reduced character level.

But really, with SR 26 at ECL 20, 2xCHA for saves, elemental resistances and Mettle you're in decent shape vs. casters, I should think. Just pump the Charisma.

I was hoping that Nar Demonbinder (which you can access through Blackguard) would offer Antimagic Field, but it doesn't seem to.

EDIT: Just saw you can ignore ECL. Yikes. Any limit on that? You can do a search on the board for "template" and maybe find one better than half-fiend.
Eidolon Faer
10-01-04, 05:20 PM Slap on three levels of Hexblade from Complete Warrior, and buy a Ring of Evasion, if it still exists in 3.5. Otherwise some Pious Templar levels might not be too far amiss.

The hexblade levels give you Mettle and even better saves versus spells and spell-like abilities.

For that matter you might want to just skip the whole Paladin thing and go with something like Hexblade 8 / Rogue 2 / Blackguard 5. The Hexblade spell list is awe-inspiring.
Kingside_Bishop
10-01-04, 06:19 PM Building on Rilem's idead:

Half Fiend Paladin 1 / Blackguard 10 / Hexblade 3 / Shadowdancer 2

I think Blackguard gives hide and move silently, right? Shadowdancer gives you evasion, darkvision, hide in plain sight, and uncanny dodge. With one more level (total 21) you could have a shadow to summon as your buddy, which is fun.

...and where did the term "munchkin" come from?
LordKiwi
10-01-04, 07:53 PM Building on Rilem's idead:
Half Fiend Paladin 1 / Blackguard 10 / Hexblade 3 / Shadowdancer 2

Shadow dancer requires three feats that most black guards will not want.
Try:
Half Fiend Rogue 2 / Fighter 2 / Hexblade 3 / Occult Slayer 4 / Blackguard 5

This gives you very good saves vs magic (+ Cha x2 +2), mettle and evasion, Spell Turning twice per day, massive damage vs spellcasters (+1d5 normally and double if you disrupt a spell), the ability to automaticaly detect magic and SR.

Definatly combine this with the Mage Slayer Feat from the Minitures Handbook and Combat Reflexes. Also get a Reach weapon (I sugest a Duom from Sword and Fist) and cast Enlarge on yourself. Any spell caster within 15' can't cast defensivly and you get an attack of oportunity at double damage if they try!

If they do manage to target you then you can choose to bounce it back or just allow your saves and SR to take it.

You don't need the paladin level if you have Hexblade, Fighter and Rogue levels (for +5 BAB, then a further +1 from Occult slayer lets you into Blackguard). The fallen paladin route into Black guard isn't te normal one for Half Fiends anyway and it means you don't waste a level.

I'd recomend a High charisma score (to increase your saves), then you can get Divine Might/shield feats and use them to great effect. The fighter levels allow you to take these with your normal feats and still have plenty of other combat feats available.

The next level of progression is definately into Occult Slayer, to give you a further +1 vs spells and immunity to mind effects.

...and where did the term "munchkin" come from?
Main Entry: munch·kin
Function: noun
Etymology: the Munchkins, diminutive creatures in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1900) by L. Frank Baum
: a person who is notably small and often endearing

HTH

Lord Kiwi
Kingside_Bishop
10-01-04, 08:26 PM Main Entry: munch·kin
Function: noun
Etymology: the Munchkins, diminutive creatures in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1900) by L. Frank Baum
: a person who is notably small and often endearing

HTH

Lord Kiwi

I know where it actually came from... but I suppose I should have been more clear. I meant: "Where did the term 'munchkin' come from, in the relation to a certain group of roleplayers that are known to place the value of statistics above the value of a well thought out character personality?"
Elorean
10-02-04, 03:12 AM See, the thing is I don't really want to be hiding and sneak attacking at all. I don't want to be creeping in the shadows, waiting for an opportune moment to strike. I want to be able to walk straight up to a caster and gut him. I want to be able to deflect a bolt of lightning away with my sword. I want to be a balls out, running into the wizard's lair, straight to the wizard's main chambers, chopping his head off and then letting my fiendish raven servant peck at his festering corpse... guy... lol

Is there such a possibility? If not at this level, I at least want to be heading in that direction.
catharz
10-02-04, 03:35 AM Unearthed arcana's Spelltouched feats might be what you want. "Live my nightmare," in particular, is amazing. Residual rebound is a bit crappy, but is probably more what you're looking for.

Mortalhunter/Foe hunter would work wonders if you can call "Mortalhunting" a "favored enemy."
Wayne
10-02-04, 04:18 AM There's a couple ways of going about getting high levels of magic resistance. You can take Complete Warrior's Occult Slayer (in addition to what Lord Kiwi mentioned, it provides Spell Turning 2/day at 4th level), probably the best 3.5 PrC out so far that I know of. If you're playing with Forgotten Realms material, the Runescarred Berserker (Unapproachable East) is a nice class with Antimagic Field on its spell list (9th class level, though :/). Ditto for the 3.0 Defender of the Faith's Consecrated Harrier (nerfed to only 4 spell levels, no more AMF :/).

It's an unfortunate truism that the best anti-casters are other spellcasters.

Your best bet, though, aside from items that provide magic protection (like the two lavender ellipsoid ioun stones), is the Masters of the Wild PrC Forsaker. It grants SR 10+level that stacks with all other SR, and +10 points to add to your stats, along with a few other things. Its biggest weakness (inability to fly to combat spellcasters) is made up for with a half-fiend's natural wings, and you can also benefit from some fiendish grants (Fiend Folio, specifically mentioned as not being magical items).

Forsaker's drawback is that you lose the ability to use all magic items and spells (and your racial spell-like abilities)-- but you're basically immune to any spell with "SR: Yes" in its description. *chuckles* It's not the most optimal class in general, since D&D (especially at higher levels) revolves around magic and magic items-- but if you really want to "run into the wizard's lair and chop off his head" there's no better way to do it. :D
LordKiwi
10-02-04, 06:44 AM See, the thing is I don't really want to be hiding and sneak attacking at all. I don't want to be creeping in the shadows, waiting for an opportune moment to strike. I want to be able to walk straight up to a caster and gut him. I want to be able to deflect a bolt of lightning away with my sword. I want to be a balls out, running into the wizard's lair, straight to the wizard's main chambers, chopping his head off and then letting my fiendish raven servant peck at his festering corpse... guy... lol

Is there such a possibility? If not at this level, I at least want to be heading in that direction.

The occult slayer/hex blade build I sugested doesn't involve sneaking around (although it does give you plenty of skill points and 2d6 snesak attack). It lets you rebound magic twice a day and be practicaly immune to any other magic that hits you.

The spell touched feats (as sugested by Carhaz). If you need more feats you can always take the Feats Rogue varient from UA, giving the character 2 more feats. It also makes him less sneaky, which is what you want.

Lord Kiwi

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elorean 10-01-04, 03:11 PM	Hey guys. Well, I've been playing D&D for quite some time now. Ever since I was in the 3rd grade if I recall correctly. At any rate, I've never really considered the possibility of tweaking out a character to where all his skills and such combine to make him/her an unbeatable force of power. I would just pick a class that I thought you be fun to play, and got skills or whatever that seemed like they'd be cool to have. However, after reading these forums, everyone seems to be making what they call "munchkins" I believe? So I have a 1 Paladin/10 Blackguard right now, and our DM is letting us make a level 15 character to be in a high level campaign. So I'm missing 4 levels. Now, I want him to be really evil. He's already a half-fiend and got a good backstory. Thing is, I also want him to be really magic resistant. I want him to be able to laugh in the faces of magic users while he knocks a fireball they had just cast back at them or something like that. I wouldn't mind giving up a few levels in blackguard since all we really get past level 5 is a sneak attack bonus (correct me if I'm wrong there). Oh, and well, I suppose the fiendish summoning and undead companion things are pretty cool too though. The fiendish servant at level 5 would be enough since it levels up with character level and not BG level. So that leaves me with a potential 9 levels. I guess technically, you can't level drain yourself as a paladin until level 11, which means if I were only a level 5 blackguard, I'd lose my paladin abilities like lay on hands and smite good. No biggie. I've still got my blackguard spells. So anyways, can you guys help me out? I guess the way I'd want to go about doing things would be start off as one class, get the requirements to become a BG, get to level 5 BG and then do whatever else you guys can think of to help me out with my magic resistance deal. Also, if you reference any class outside of the Player's Handbook or the DM's Guide, can you please tell me what book you found it in? And please don't abbreviate because chances are I won't know what you're talking about. Also, if you could describe why the classes you mention would go good with how I want my BG to turn out, that'd be a world of help. Thanks in advance guys and gals!
rilem 10-01-04, 03:29 PM	everyone seems to be making what they call "munchkins" I believe? ... First off, no they're not, and most people find the term insulting. Second: You've got a Half-Fiend Pal1/Blackguard10 and you're looking for a 15th level character? Half-Fiends have a level adjustment of +4. You've already got a 15th level character; you're not missing any levels at all. Third: You know half-fiends get magic resistance 10+class levels, right? You have SR 21 at your current level. Now, what to do with your remaining levels? Three levels of Hexblade (complete warrior) will get you CHA to saves vs. spells (effectively doubling your Dark Blessing ability) as well as Mettle -- both very good. Two levels of Warrior of Darkness (Book of Vile Darkness) can get you a couple other nice bonuses and give you great flexibility in customizing your weapons. So: Half-Fiend Pal1/Blackguard10/Hexblade3/WarriorofDarkness2. BAB 16, saves13/4/8
Blade2718 10-01-04, 03:42 PM	Boost your Cha sky-high and you'll make all the saves against spells targeting you.
Elorean 10-01-04, 03:43 PM	Didn't mean to come off as a total noob there... Just pretty new to anything beyond 2nd Edition. Anyhow, our DM is letting us forgo the level adjustment. yeah, I know we get the spell resistance. But I want to make him so spell resistant he's practically negating magic by just walking upto a magic user. That's probably impossible at this level (if it's not, let me know!) but you get the idea of where I want to take this guy.
rilem 10-01-04, 03:51 PM	Most spell resistance hovers around 10+level (12+caster level for the spell) -- and it doesn't stack. On its own, it's not great, especially with your reduced character level. But really, with SR 26 at ECL 20, 2xCHA for saves, elemental resistances and Mettle you're in decent shape vs. casters, I should think. Just pump the Charisma. I was hoping that Nar Demonbinder (which you can access through Blackguard) would offer Antimagic Field, but it doesn't seem to. EDIT: Just saw you can ignore ECL. Yikes. Any limit on that? You can do a search on the board for "template" and maybe find one better than half-fiend.
Eidolon Faer 10-01-04, 05:20 PM	Slap on three levels of Hexblade from Complete Warrior, and buy a Ring of Evasion, if it still exists in 3.5. Otherwise some Pious Templar levels might not be too far amiss. The hexblade levels give you Mettle and even better saves versus spells and spell-like abilities. For that matter you might want to just skip the whole Paladin thing and go with something like Hexblade 8 / Rogue 2 / Blackguard 5. The Hexblade spell list is awe-inspiring.
Kingside_Bishop 10-01-04, 06:19 PM	Building on Rilem's idead: Half Fiend Paladin 1 / Blackguard 10 / Hexblade 3 / Shadowdancer 2 I think Blackguard gives hide and move silently, right? Shadowdancer gives you evasion, darkvision, hide in plain sight, and uncanny dodge. With one more level (total 21) you could have a shadow to summon as your buddy, which is fun. ...and where did the term "munchkin" come from?
LordKiwi 10-01-04, 07:53 PM	Building on Rilem's idead: Half Fiend Paladin 1 / Blackguard 10 / Hexblade 3 / Shadowdancer 2 Shadow dancer requires three feats that most black guards will not want. Try: Half Fiend Rogue 2 / Fighter 2 / Hexblade 3 / Occult Slayer 4 / Blackguard 5 This gives you very good saves vs magic (+ Cha x2 +2), mettle and evasion, Spell Turning twice per day, massive damage vs spellcasters (+1d5 normally and double if you disrupt a spell), the ability to automaticaly detect magic and SR. Definatly combine this with the Mage Slayer Feat from the Minitures Handbook and Combat Reflexes. Also get a Reach weapon (I sugest a Duom from Sword and Fist) and cast Enlarge on yourself. Any spell caster within 15' can't cast defensivly and you get an attack of oportunity at double damage if they try! If they do manage to target you then you can choose to bounce it back or just allow your saves and SR to take it. You don't need the paladin level if you have Hexblade, Fighter and Rogue levels (for +5 BAB, then a further +1 from Occult slayer lets you into Blackguard). The fallen paladin route into Black guard isn't te normal one for Half Fiends anyway and it means you don't waste a level. I'd recomend a High charisma score (to increase your saves), then you can get Divine Might/shield feats and use them to great effect. The fighter levels allow you to take these with your normal feats and still have plenty of other combat feats available. The next level of progression is definately into Occult Slayer, to give you a further +1 vs spells and immunity to mind effects. ...and where did the term "munchkin" come from? Main Entry: munch·kin Function: noun Etymology: the Munchkins, diminutive creatures in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1900) by L. Frank Baum : a person who is notably small and often endearing HTH Lord Kiwi
Kingside_Bishop 10-01-04, 08:26 PM	Main Entry: munch·kin Function: noun Etymology: the Munchkins, diminutive creatures in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1900) by L. Frank Baum : a person who is notably small and often endearing HTH Lord Kiwi I know where it actually came from... but I suppose I should have been more clear. I meant: "Where did the term 'munchkin' come from, in the relation to a certain group of roleplayers that are known to place the value of statistics above the value of a well thought out character personality?"
Elorean 10-02-04, 03:12 AM	See, the thing is I don't really want to be hiding and sneak attacking at all. I don't want to be creeping in the shadows, waiting for an opportune moment to strike. I want to be able to walk straight up to a caster and gut him. I want to be able to deflect a bolt of lightning away with my sword. I want to be a balls out, running into the wizard's lair, straight to the wizard's main chambers, chopping his head off and then letting my fiendish raven servant peck at his festering corpse... guy... lol Is there such a possibility? If not at this level, I at least want to be heading in that direction.
catharz 10-02-04, 03:35 AM	Unearthed arcana's Spelltouched feats might be what you want. "Live my nightmare," in particular, is amazing. Residual rebound is a bit crappy, but is probably more what you're looking for. Mortalhunter/Foe hunter would work wonders if you can call "Mortalhunting" a "favored enemy."
Wayne 10-02-04, 04:18 AM	There's a couple ways of going about getting high levels of magic resistance. You can take Complete Warrior's Occult Slayer (in addition to what Lord Kiwi mentioned, it provides Spell Turning 2/day at 4th level), probably the best 3.5 PrC out so far that I know of. If you're playing with Forgotten Realms material, the Runescarred Berserker (Unapproachable East) is a nice class with Antimagic Field on its spell list (9th class level, though :/). Ditto for the 3.0 Defender of the Faith's Consecrated Harrier (nerfed to only 4 spell levels, no more AMF :/). It's an unfortunate truism that the best anti-casters are other spellcasters. Your best bet, though, aside from items that provide magic protection (like the two lavender ellipsoid ioun stones), is the Masters of the Wild PrC Forsaker. It grants SR 10+level that stacks with all other SR, and +10 points to add to your stats, along with a few other things. Its biggest weakness (inability to fly to combat spellcasters) is made up for with a half-fiend's natural wings, and you can also benefit from some fiendish grants (Fiend Folio, specifically mentioned as not being magical items). Forsaker's drawback is that you lose the ability to use all magic items and spells (and your racial spell-like abilities)-- but you're basically immune to any spell with "SR: Yes" in its description. chuckles It's not the most optimal class in general, since D&D (especially at higher levels) revolves around magic and magic items-- but if you really want to "run into the wizard's lair and chop off his head" there's no better way to do it. :D
LordKiwi 10-02-04, 06:44 AM	See, the thing is I don't really want to be hiding and sneak attacking at all. I don't want to be creeping in the shadows, waiting for an opportune moment to strike. I want to be able to walk straight up to a caster and gut him. I want to be able to deflect a bolt of lightning away with my sword. I want to be a balls out, running into the wizard's lair, straight to the wizard's main chambers, chopping his head off and then letting my fiendish raven servant peck at his festering corpse... guy... lol Is there such a possibility? If not at this level, I at least want to be heading in that direction. The occult slayer/hex blade build I sugested doesn't involve sneaking around (although it does give you plenty of skill points and 2d6 snesak attack). It lets you rebound magic twice a day and be practicaly immune to any other magic that hits you. The spell touched feats (as sugested by Carhaz). If you need more feats you can always take the Feats Rogue varient from UA, giving the character 2 more feats. It also makes him less sneaky, which is what you want. Lord Kiwi