Abyssal Layer 666 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abyssal Layer 666 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BloodDragon
03-28-08, 02:51 PM So in the Great Wheel the Abyss is infinite or so they say… yet no one really know what’s beyond layer 665.

I’ve always wondered what is suppose to be on layer 666, other then the crypt blurb of ‘Making it up yourself’ in the Manual of the Planes, in fact it's so crypt that there might not even be a layer 666!

Can any of you 1st or 2nd ed veterans recall anything from a long lost campaign that might hint at what this layer is all about? Or even what have other DMs used in their campaigns? I'm interested.
Eldritch_Lord
03-28-08, 02:54 PM Fiendish Codex 1 has a big list of a bunch of layers, with a few explored in detail; I don't remember if 666 is mentioned specifically, but that would be a good place to start.
Bloodsoul
03-28-08, 02:56 PM I want to give 666 a Good Humor truck. Even demons couldn't be so evil as to not enjoy ice cream! :bigeyes:
BloodDragon
03-28-08, 03:20 PM Fiendish Codex 1 has a big list of a bunch of layers, with a few explored in detail; I don't remember if 666 is mentioned specifically, but that would be a good place to start.

Without even looking: it's not, but I'll look so I dont' come off as a complete ***hole :D

Just checked it is not even listed in the big list of known layers in the back. :weep:

I want to give 666 a Good Humor truck. Even demons couldn't be so evil as to not enjoy ice cream! :bigeyes:

Hey they ARE choatic. Mabye the biggest deepest secert the obyrith hide is INFACT the legendary 37th flavour of ice cream!
turalisj
03-28-08, 05:18 PM No no no... the last layer of the abyss is where all the crappy characters people make goes (like all those Drizz't clones)
ArkhamInmate
03-28-08, 06:05 PM Who ever makes it up better have it ruled by this guy

http://www.fastnbulbous.com/eddie_satan.jpg
ripvanwormer
03-28-08, 06:58 PM The 666th layer has never been detailed officially, but it definitely exists, since the Fraternity of Order has catalogued at least 703 layers according to Planes of Chaos. The numbers are assigned in the order of discovery, so it would have been discovered comparatively recently. Some have assumed layer 666 is the "layer of evil incarnate" described in the 1st edition Manual of the Planes, where good characters have to save or die, neutral characters and those good characters who make their saves are cast into a random other plane, and evil characters are transformed into bodaks without saves.

On my website (http://www.geocities.com/ripvanwormer/abyss.html#667), I made that layer the 667th.

I've currently decided that the 666th layer is the home of the "armageddon beasts" described in Green Ronin's Book of Fiends, known as Volgauth. "While it's technically impossible for an infinite plane to have a "lowest" layer, few demons of the Abyss would argue with such a characterization of Volgauth, a hostile, stinking realm with but a single planar entrance. Positioned at the end of a gauntlet of deadly Abyssal layers..." The armageddon beast is based roughly on the seven-headed serpent from the Book of Revelation.
Admiral_Lourve
03-29-08, 05:44 PM Ah, the 666th layer. I actually DMed a adventure through it a long time ago! I forget the details but I put forth with idea:
The layers of the Abyss are slowly being dragged down into the 666th layer, this happens at a rate so slow that most Abyssal lords don't even know. A new layer grows as one is dragged into 666, so layer 1 becomes 2, layer 45 becomes 46 ect. as the current 665 is destroyed.
The layer is covered in ruins, many of them look like current Abyssal cities, towers similiar to the City of Dis appear rusted and torn. Perhaps the demon lords are not as chaotic and original as they think.
Eldritch_Lord
03-29-08, 05:54 PM Ah, the 666th layer. I actually DMed a adventure through it a long time ago! I forget the details but I put forth with idea:
The layers of the Abyss are slowly being dragged down into the 666th layer, this happens at a rate so slow that most Abyssal lords don't even know. A new layer grows as one is dragged into 666, so layer 1 becomes 2, layer 45 becomes 46 ect. as the current 665 is destroyed.
The layer is covered in ruins, many of them look like current Abyssal cities, towers similiar to the City of Dis appear rusted and torn. Perhaps the demon lords are not as chaotic and original as they think.

So the Abyss is technically infinite when the number of layers is integrated with respect to time ([/math joke]) but limited to 666 layers at any one time? I like it.
Sorcen_Anenooata
03-31-08, 09:06 PM I read somewhere that layer 666 of the Abyss was ruled by a fallen lawful good angel. I have no idea where I read that though.

Admiral_Lourve, thats an awesome and original idea there.
M-bark
04-01-08, 08:30 AM I read somewhere that the 666th layer is ruled by a really powerful obyrith, who had a great number of spell-like abilities at will (including 9th level spells), a high DR/epic, and then a number of immunities and tower-high AC.

Personally, what I'm wondering is what is on layer 1002.
BloodDragon
04-01-08, 11:16 AM Awesome idea Admiral_Lourve I'm stealing it! :D

Personally, what I'm wondering is what is on layer 1002.Er... Why?

:confused:
M-bark
04-01-08, 11:58 AM Er... Why?

:confused:

Ever noticed how the first layer of the Abyss is called the Layer of Infinite Portals or the Plain of 1001 closets? Yeah, that leads me to believe that beyond the first layer there are 1001 layers more, so 1002 layers. And who doesn't wonder what's in the last layer of the Abyss?
ripvanwormer
04-01-08, 03:57 PM So the Abyss is technically infinite when the number of layers is integrated with respect to time ([/math joke]) but limited to 666 layers at any one time? I like it.

I like it too.

This could actually be true of all outer planes. Arborea's third layer is already a layer of desolation and ruins, and it could represent the first two layers of the plane decaying. The other two layers of Ysgard could be slowly being consumed in Muspelheim's fire.

Some planes might have nicer forms of deaths - like all the layers of Celestia could be gradually transcending into the boundless light of the seventh heaven, or the layers of Elysium could be gradually sinking in the sea of Thalassia, or the layers of Gehenna are slowly dimming into the frigid darkness of Krangath, and the orbs of Carceri are spiraling inwards into the black void of Agathys as the central sphere devours the others, and the gears of Mechanus grind each other apart in a galaxy-sized mill, and Limbo - well, we already know that Limbo destroys and recreates itself continuously. The Spire is drinking up the Outlands, beginning with its magic, and the tunnels of Pandemonium are separated and spun off by the snapping maws of Agathion, and the bottomless Serpent Trench pulls and sucks at the circles of Baator, and the blades of Ocanthus cut away at the iron blocks of Acheron, and Arcadia slowly becomes more lawful and plummets one layer at a time into Mechanus to be ground by its implacable mills. The Beastlands dims and sinks into the Plane of Shadow, and Bytopia slowly rotates to reveal a third, narrow, still almost featureless wedge-shaped layer at the point where Dothion and Shurrock branch apart, to blossom into a full layer when the last central spire of Bytopia crumbles and the two sides of the sandwich crash against each other at last.

Haha, the Doomguard in me is happy about this.
maddog0714
04-03-08, 04:55 PM I made it lead into another reality that started upwards from layer 666 to layer 1 of lawful good demonic beings, and in that reality the good gods were evil and the evil gods were good.
Grod_The_Giant
04-03-08, 05:16 PM I made it lead into another reality that started upwards from layer 666 to layer 1 of lawful good demonic beings, and in that reality the good gods were evil and the evil gods were good.
now THAT is a cool idea.

Personally, I go with the truely-infinite layers theory, and attatch no special interest to the number 666 (Judism FTW :D!).
Also, didn't christians once believe the world would end in 1002 AD?
turalisj
04-03-08, 05:59 PM Yes, and there are people out there that believe George W. Bush is the third Anti-Christ.:rolleyes:
Silver_Bulette
04-05-08, 08:05 PM The last layer contains the Temple of Moloch, where his high priest guards the legendary Amulet of Yendor.

What are you looking at me like that for?
Callista
04-05-08, 09:59 PM The numbers are really just externally imposed. The layers of the abyss have no real numbers; depending on who counted them, any layer could be 666. The Abyss defies organization, and any system cataloging the layers must therefore be completely arbitrary.

Also, the 666th layer is the home of Barney, Jar Jar Binks, and the Teletubbies.
turalisj
04-06-08, 01:16 AM With JarJar leading a massive army of gungans!

JarJar: Meesa own you soul! :D
Sorcen_Anenooata
04-06-08, 09:34 AM The numbers are really just externally imposed. The layers of the abyss have no real numbers; depending on who counted them, any layer could be 666. The Abyss defies organization, and any system cataloging the layers must therefore be completely arbitrary.

Good point, I've been trying to think of how to word that. Well done.
ripvanwormer
04-06-08, 10:02 AM The numbers are really just externally imposed. The layers of the abyss have no real numbers; depending on who counted them, any layer could be 666. The Abyss defies organization, and any system cataloging the layers must therefore be completely arbitrary.

Very true, and a good point.

That said, filling the layer with seven-headed serpents and beasts with horns like lambs that speak like dragons amuses me.
Mr_Seth
04-07-08, 07:34 PM I tend to studiously avoid direct comparisons with biblical imagery in D&D games.

That said, the way I envision the 666th layer is simple.

~

The 666th layer is an infinite layer of black, thick gaseous clouds. Their touch covers the skin with sores and brings horrid disease to mortal beings. In the center of this cloud is a great, wailing sphere of 2,160 evil souls, fused into a hollow, solid cage. Each of these souls are lucid, conscious, and in a permanent state of horrendous agony, both from being fused together with the other souls, and from what lies inside them. They do not keep what is inside them from getting out; they are to keep what is outside them from breaking in.

If you were to crack open the soul-cage somehow, inside lies a second sphere, made of pure celestial fire. The eternally-burning blue-white flames of law and goodness are the last line of defense against what lies within them.

Inside that sphere is a great, spherical cage, banded adamantine and silver and cold iron, wrapped around so many times that no holes can be seen to the center, covered in barbs so sharp that the lightest pressure against them cuts almost anything effortlessly.

And inside that final cage lies the End of the Universe.
M-bark
04-08-08, 04:38 AM now THAT is a cool idea.

Personally, I go with the truely-infinite layers theory, and attatch no special interest to the number 666 (Judism FTW :D!).
Also, didn't christians once believe the world would end in 1002 AD?

The Abyss ends in layer 1002! Repent before it cometh!
touchdown
04-18-08, 12:00 AM Does the number 666 even have any meaning in D&D mythology?
Belphegor
04-18-08, 01:42 AM Does the number 666 even have any meaning in D&D mythology?

I dont belive so no.

I would just homebrew some UBER god there.

Like a Cthulhu like.
Shemeska the Marauder
04-18-08, 03:08 PM Does the number 666 even have any meaning in D&D mythology?

Nope. And technically, it shouldn't in real life either, since 666 appears to potentially be a later corruption/mistranslation of the original numerical sequence which was 616 (from the oxyrhynchus papyri). Well, the oldest manuscript has 616, and others from the period use 665 and 666. All depends on how you want to allude to Nero I suppose.
gravenhurst
04-22-08, 07:40 PM I like the idea posted from Eldritch Lord as well. i have used something like this but with out the math definition. LOL!

I also have read somewhere about a fallen angel (the new 4th E Asmodeuos?) in control of the 666 or further layer. If I stumble on it I will post it. Maybe Legions of Hell, by Green Ronin?

Now about the 666 Layers of the Abyss, I have always referred to the 1stE AD&D Desert of Desolation trilogy by Tracy & Laura Hickman and Philip Meyers, for my begining and ending of the cosmos. The last of the series The Lost Tomb of Martek explains, "The Black Abyss lies just beyond the Guardians of Time and Space. The Black Abyss is a gash that bridges the prime material plane and the 666 layers of the Abyss...."

You could use the eroding theory of the planes where they all end or begin here. It could also be where the Far Realm punctured the universe sending chaos to corrupt...I dunno, the devils, or its own creatures, thus a Blood War! The devils need the celestials, or souls, because the Abyss technically is always expanding until the tear/gash is stoppered.
ArkhamInmate
04-22-08, 08:05 PM You could use the eroding theory of the planes where they all end or begin here. It could also be where the Far Realm punctured the universe sending chaos to corrupt...I dunno, the devils, or its own creatures, thus a Blood War! The devils need the celestials, or souls, because the Abyss technically is always expanding until the tear/gash is stoppered.

This is nice i think i'm gonna use it
ripvanwormer
04-24-08, 03:00 PM Now about the ^^^ Layers of the Abyss, I have always referred to the 1stE AD&D Desert of Desolation trilogy by Tracy & Laura Hickman and Philip Meyers, for my begining and ending of the cosmos. The last of the series The Lost Tomb of Martek explains, "The Black Abyss lies just beyond the Guardians of Time and Space. The Black Abyss is a gash that bridges the prime material plane and the 666 layers of the Abyss...."

The Black Abyss is described in detail in A Guide to the Ethereal Plane by Bruce Cordell, in the chapter on demiplanes. This was updated and expanded in Dragon #353, in an article by our own Shemeska the Marauder.

Here is a cartoon relevant to the topic of 666 (and 616) (http://www.overcompensating.com/posts/20080423.html).
gravenhurst
04-24-08, 11:51 PM The Black Abyss is described in detail in A Guide to the Ethereal Plane by Bruce Cordell, in the chapter on demiplanes. This was updated and expanded in Dragon #353, in an article by our own Shemeska the Marauder.

Here is a cartoon relevant to the topic of 666 (and 616) (http://www.overcompensating.com/posts/20080423.html).

Oh please do tell. You know I do not have Planscape material (4 books only). No teasing. How similar, or not, is it to my description here in this thread?
Artifact
05-05-08, 10:09 PM Ah, the 666th layer. I actually DMed a adventure through it a long time ago! I forget the details but I put forth with idea:
The layers of the Abyss are slowly being dragged down into the 666th layer, this happens at a rate so slow that most Abyssal lords don't even know. A new layer grows as one is dragged into 666, so layer 1 becomes 2, layer 45 becomes 46 ect. as the current 665 is destroyed.
The layer is covered in ruins, many of them look like current Abyssal cities, towers similiar to the City of Dis appear rusted and torn. Perhaps the demon lords are not as chaotic and original as they think.

In a sense, 666 is a "black hole", within which can be found the decaying remains of the Abyss as it existed untold millennia ago. The lure of evil (as it were).

What an awesome idea!
Admiral_Lourve
05-06-08, 02:09 PM In a sense, 666 is a "black hole", within which can be found the decaying remains of the Abyss as it existed untold millennia ago. The lure of evil (as it were).

What an awesome idea!

Thanks! :cool:
Draco_Whitewind
05-06-08, 08:47 PM Who ever makes it up better have it ruled by this guy

http://www.fastnbulbous.com/eddie_satan.jpg

Here's Eddie! :D Wow, Someone else actually thought up the same thing I was about to post because of the Song number of the beast.
ArkhamInmate
05-07-08, 06:43 PM Here's Eddie! :D Wow, Someone else actually thought up the same thing I was about to post because of the Song number of the beast.

Finally!! someone mentioned him
Asra
05-13-08, 09:13 AM I like to think that Nero Caesar is on the 666th layer of the Abyss, being fed grapes by Succubi and Incubi for some reason, while playing the violin... I imagine he would have some bard levels.
Rinian2
05-21-08, 04:30 AM Does the number 666 even have any meaning in D&D mythology?Of course it does!

Well it did when people still used to roll dice to determine their stats.

3d6 for every one of the 6 stats and the result everyone wanted to see was 6 6 6! Woo hoo 18!

If that ain't mythology and meaning I'll eat my pointy hat.

And the 666th layer has to be the real world.
Sinfire Titan
05-21-08, 12:27 PM I actually have designated that layer as Earth, as this hell-hole we live in very much reminds me of the Abyss.
xPariahx
05-21-08, 01:21 PM The 666th layer of the Abyss and the 10th layer of Hell(thats right 10 hells!) are actual one and the same they are ruled by George W Bush!!!:eek:
M-bark
05-22-08, 07:12 AM The 666th layer of the Abyss and the 10th layer of Hell(thats right 10 hells!) are actual one and the same they are ruled by Ted!!!:eek:

There. That's better.

And if you want a higher number of hells, I'd pick 13.
ciaran
05-23-08, 08:36 PM This is probably the only thread on these forums already over one page I have read all the way through. Fascinating. It is also probably the most constructive I've read. No rants or provocation? Bravo.
Aneutralshadeofblack
05-24-08, 05:57 AM Some planes might have nicer forms of deaths - like all the layers of Celestia could be gradually transcending into the boundless light of the seventh heaven, or the layers of Elysium could be gradually sinking in the sea of Thalassia, or the layers of Gehenna are slowly dimming into the frigid darkness of Krangath, and the orbs of Carceri are spiraling inwards into the black void of Agathys as the central sphere devours the others, and the gears of Mechanus grind each other apart in a galaxy-sized mill, and Limbo - well, we already know that Limbo destroys and recreates itself continuously. The Spire is drinking up the Outlands, beginning with its magic, and the tunnels of Pandemonium are separated and spun off by the snapping maws of Agathion, and the bottomless Serpent Trench pulls and sucks at the circles of Baator, and the blades of Ocanthus cut away at the iron blocks of Acheron, and Arcadia slowly becomes more lawful and plummets one layer at a time into Mechanus to be ground by its implacable mills. The Beastlands dims and sinks into the Plane of Shadow, and Bytopia slowly rotates to reveal a third, narrow, still almost featureless wedge-shaped layer at the point where Dothion and Shurrock branch apart, to blossom into a full layer when the last central spire of Bytopia crumbles and the two sides of the sandwich crash against each other at last.

Quoted for awesome and saved - that would make an awesome Doomguard creed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BloodDragon 03-28-08, 02:51 PM	So in the Great Wheel the Abyss is infinite or so they say… yet no one really know what’s beyond layer 665. I’ve always wondered what is suppose to be on layer 666, other then the crypt blurb of ‘Making it up yourself’ in the Manual of the Planes, in fact it's so crypt that there might not even be a layer 666! Can any of you 1st or 2nd ed veterans recall anything from a long lost campaign that might hint at what this layer is all about? Or even what have other DMs used in their campaigns? I'm interested.
Eldritch_Lord 03-28-08, 02:54 PM	Fiendish Codex 1 has a big list of a bunch of layers, with a few explored in detail; I don't remember if 666 is mentioned specifically, but that would be a good place to start.
Bloodsoul 03-28-08, 02:56 PM	I want to give 666 a Good Humor truck. Even demons couldn't be so evil as to not enjoy ice cream! :bigeyes:
BloodDragon 03-28-08, 03:20 PM	Fiendish Codex 1 has a big list of a bunch of layers, with a few explored in detail; I don't remember if 666 is mentioned specifically, but that would be a good place to start. Without even looking: it's not, but I'll look so I dont' come off as a complete ***hole :D Just checked it is not even listed in the big list of known layers in the back. :weep: I want to give 666 a Good Humor truck. Even demons couldn't be so evil as to not enjoy ice cream! :bigeyes: Hey they ARE choatic. Mabye the biggest deepest secert the obyrith hide is INFACT the legendary 37th flavour of ice cream!
turalisj 03-28-08, 05:18 PM	No no no... the last layer of the abyss is where all the crappy characters people make goes (like all those Drizz't clones)
ArkhamInmate 03-28-08, 06:05 PM	Who ever makes it up better have it ruled by this guy http://www.fastnbulbous.com/eddie_satan.jpg
ripvanwormer 03-28-08, 06:58 PM	The 666th layer has never been detailed officially, but it definitely exists, since the Fraternity of Order has catalogued at least 703 layers according to Planes of Chaos. The numbers are assigned in the order of discovery, so it would have been discovered comparatively recently. Some have assumed layer 666 is the "layer of evil incarnate" described in the 1st edition Manual of the Planes, where good characters have to save or die, neutral characters and those good characters who make their saves are cast into a random other plane, and evil characters are transformed into bodaks without saves. On my website (http://www.geocities.com/ripvanwormer/abyss.html#667), I made that layer the 667th. I've currently decided that the 666th layer is the home of the "armageddon beasts" described in Green Ronin's Book of Fiends, known as Volgauth. "While it's technically impossible for an infinite plane to have a "lowest" layer, few demons of the Abyss would argue with such a characterization of Volgauth, a hostile, stinking realm with but a single planar entrance. Positioned at the end of a gauntlet of deadly Abyssal layers..." The armageddon beast is based roughly on the seven-headed serpent from the Book of Revelation.
Admiral_Lourve 03-29-08, 05:44 PM	Ah, the 666th layer. I actually DMed a adventure through it a long time ago! I forget the details but I put forth with idea: The layers of the Abyss are slowly being dragged down into the 666th layer, this happens at a rate so slow that most Abyssal lords don't even know. A new layer grows as one is dragged into 666, so layer 1 becomes 2, layer 45 becomes 46 ect. as the current 665 is destroyed. The layer is covered in ruins, many of them look like current Abyssal cities, towers similiar to the City of Dis appear rusted and torn. Perhaps the demon lords are not as chaotic and original as they think.
Eldritch_Lord 03-29-08, 05:54 PM	Ah, the 666th layer. I actually DMed a adventure through it a long time ago! I forget the details but I put forth with idea: The layers of the Abyss are slowly being dragged down into the 666th layer, this happens at a rate so slow that most Abyssal lords don't even know. A new layer grows as one is dragged into 666, so layer 1 becomes 2, layer 45 becomes 46 ect. as the current 665 is destroyed. The layer is covered in ruins, many of them look like current Abyssal cities, towers similiar to the City of Dis appear rusted and torn. Perhaps the demon lords are not as chaotic and original as they think. So the Abyss is technically infinite when the number of layers is integrated with respect to time ([/math joke]) but limited to 666 layers at any one time? I like it.
Sorcen_Anenooata 03-31-08, 09:06 PM	I read somewhere that layer 666 of the Abyss was ruled by a fallen lawful good angel. I have no idea where I read that though. Admiral_Lourve, thats an awesome and original idea there.
M-bark 04-01-08, 08:30 AM	I read somewhere that the 666th layer is ruled by a really powerful obyrith, who had a great number of spell-like abilities at will (including 9th level spells), a high DR/epic, and then a number of immunities and tower-high AC. Personally, what I'm wondering is what is on layer 1002.
BloodDragon 04-01-08, 11:16 AM	Awesome idea Admiral_Lourve I'm stealing it! :D Personally, what I'm wondering is what is on layer 1002.Er... Why? :confused:
M-bark 04-01-08, 11:58 AM	Er... Why? :confused: Ever noticed how the first layer of the Abyss is called the Layer of Infinite Portals or the Plain of 1001 closets? Yeah, that leads me to believe that beyond the first layer there are 1001 layers more, so 1002 layers. And who doesn't wonder what's in the last layer of the Abyss?
ripvanwormer 04-01-08, 03:57 PM	So the Abyss is technically infinite when the number of layers is integrated with respect to time ([/math joke]) but limited to 666 layers at any one time? I like it. I like it too. This could actually be true of all outer planes. Arborea's third layer is already a layer of desolation and ruins, and it could represent the first two layers of the plane decaying. The other two layers of Ysgard could be slowly being consumed in Muspelheim's fire. Some planes might have nicer forms of deaths - like all the layers of Celestia could be gradually transcending into the boundless light of the seventh heaven, or the layers of Elysium could be gradually sinking in the sea of Thalassia, or the layers of Gehenna are slowly dimming into the frigid darkness of Krangath, and the orbs of Carceri are spiraling inwards into the black void of Agathys as the central sphere devours the others, and the gears of Mechanus grind each other apart in a galaxy-sized mill, and Limbo - well, we already know that Limbo destroys and recreates itself continuously. The Spire is drinking up the Outlands, beginning with its magic, and the tunnels of Pandemonium are separated and spun off by the snapping maws of Agathion, and the bottomless Serpent Trench pulls and sucks at the circles of Baator, and the blades of Ocanthus cut away at the iron blocks of Acheron, and Arcadia slowly becomes more lawful and plummets one layer at a time into Mechanus to be ground by its implacable mills. The Beastlands dims and sinks into the Plane of Shadow, and Bytopia slowly rotates to reveal a third, narrow, still almost featureless wedge-shaped layer at the point where Dothion and Shurrock branch apart, to blossom into a full layer when the last central spire of Bytopia crumbles and the two sides of the sandwich crash against each other at last. Haha, the Doomguard in me is happy about this.
maddog0714 04-03-08, 04:55 PM	I made it lead into another reality that started upwards from layer 666 to layer 1 of lawful good demonic beings, and in that reality the good gods were evil and the evil gods were good.
Grod_The_Giant 04-03-08, 05:16 PM	I made it lead into another reality that started upwards from layer 666 to layer 1 of lawful good demonic beings, and in that reality the good gods were evil and the evil gods were good. now THAT is a cool idea. Personally, I go with the truely-infinite layers theory, and attatch no special interest to the number 666 (Judism FTW :D!). Also, didn't christians once believe the world would end in 1002 AD?
turalisj 04-03-08, 05:59 PM	Yes, and there are people out there that believe George W. Bush is the third Anti-Christ.:rolleyes:
Silver_Bulette 04-05-08, 08:05 PM	The last layer contains the Temple of Moloch, where his high priest guards the legendary Amulet of Yendor. What are you looking at me like that for?
Callista 04-05-08, 09:59 PM	The numbers are really just externally imposed. The layers of the abyss have no real numbers; depending on who counted them, any layer could be 666. The Abyss defies organization, and any system cataloging the layers must therefore be completely arbitrary. Also, the 666th layer is the home of Barney, Jar Jar Binks, and the Teletubbies.
turalisj 04-06-08, 01:16 AM	With JarJar leading a massive army of gungans! JarJar: Meesa own you soul! :D
Sorcen_Anenooata 04-06-08, 09:34 AM	The numbers are really just externally imposed. The layers of the abyss have no real numbers; depending on who counted them, any layer could be 666. The Abyss defies organization, and any system cataloging the layers must therefore be completely arbitrary. Good point, I've been trying to think of how to word that. Well done.
ripvanwormer 04-06-08, 10:02 AM	The numbers are really just externally imposed. The layers of the abyss have no real numbers; depending on who counted them, any layer could be 666. The Abyss defies organization, and any system cataloging the layers must therefore be completely arbitrary. Very true, and a good point. That said, filling the layer with seven-headed serpents and beasts with horns like lambs that speak like dragons amuses me.
Mr_Seth 04-07-08, 07:34 PM	I tend to studiously avoid direct comparisons with biblical imagery in D&D games. That said, the way I envision the 666th layer is simple. ~ The 666th layer is an infinite layer of black, thick gaseous clouds. Their touch covers the skin with sores and brings horrid disease to mortal beings. In the center of this cloud is a great, wailing sphere of 2,160 evil souls, fused into a hollow, solid cage. Each of these souls are lucid, conscious, and in a permanent state of horrendous agony, both from being fused together with the other souls, and from what lies inside them. They do not keep what is inside them from getting out; they are to keep what is outside them from breaking in. If you were to crack open the soul-cage somehow, inside lies a second sphere, made of pure celestial fire. The eternally-burning blue-white flames of law and goodness are the last line of defense against what lies within them. Inside that sphere is a great, spherical cage, banded adamantine and silver and cold iron, wrapped around so many times that no holes can be seen to the center, covered in barbs so sharp that the lightest pressure against them cuts almost anything effortlessly. And inside that final cage lies the End of the Universe.
M-bark 04-08-08, 04:38 AM	now THAT is a cool idea. Personally, I go with the truely-infinite layers theory, and attatch no special interest to the number 666 (Judism FTW :D!). Also, didn't christians once believe the world would end in 1002 AD? The Abyss ends in layer 1002! Repent before it cometh!
touchdown 04-18-08, 12:00 AM	Does the number 666 even have any meaning in D&D mythology?
Belphegor 04-18-08, 01:42 AM	Does the number 666 even have any meaning in D&D mythology? I dont belive so no. I would just homebrew some UBER god there. Like a Cthulhu like.
Shemeska the Marauder 04-18-08, 03:08 PM	Does the number 666 even have any meaning in D&D mythology? Nope. And technically, it shouldn't in real life either, since 666 appears to potentially be a later corruption/mistranslation of the original numerical sequence which was 616 (from the oxyrhynchus papyri). Well, the oldest manuscript has 616, and others from the period use 665 and 666. All depends on how you want to allude to Nero I suppose.
gravenhurst 04-22-08, 07:40 PM	I like the idea posted from Eldritch Lord as well. i have used something like this but with out the math definition. LOL! I also have read somewhere about a fallen angel (the new 4th E Asmodeuos?) in control of the 666 or further layer. If I stumble on it I will post it. Maybe Legions of Hell, by Green Ronin? Now about the 666 Layers of the Abyss, I have always referred to the 1stE AD&D Desert of Desolation trilogy by Tracy & Laura Hickman and Philip Meyers, for my begining and ending of the cosmos. The last of the series The Lost Tomb of Martek explains, "The Black Abyss lies just beyond the Guardians of Time and Space. The Black Abyss is a gash that bridges the prime material plane and the 666 layers of the Abyss...." You could use the eroding theory of the planes where they all end or begin here. It could also be where the Far Realm punctured the universe sending chaos to corrupt...I dunno, the devils, or its own creatures, thus a Blood War! The devils need the celestials, or souls, because the Abyss technically is always expanding until the tear/gash is stoppered.
ArkhamInmate 04-22-08, 08:05 PM	You could use the eroding theory of the planes where they all end or begin here. It could also be where the Far Realm punctured the universe sending chaos to corrupt...I dunno, the devils, or its own creatures, thus a Blood War! The devils need the celestials, or souls, because the Abyss technically is always expanding until the tear/gash is stoppered. This is nice i think i'm gonna use it
ripvanwormer 04-24-08, 03:00 PM	Now about the ^^^ Layers of the Abyss, I have always referred to the 1stE AD&D Desert of Desolation trilogy by Tracy & Laura Hickman and Philip Meyers, for my begining and ending of the cosmos. The last of the series The Lost Tomb of Martek explains, "The Black Abyss lies just beyond the Guardians of Time and Space. The Black Abyss is a gash that bridges the prime material plane and the 666 layers of the Abyss...." The Black Abyss is described in detail in A Guide to the Ethereal Plane by Bruce Cordell, in the chapter on demiplanes. This was updated and expanded in Dragon #353, in an article by our own Shemeska the Marauder. Here is a cartoon relevant to the topic of 666 (and 616) (http://www.overcompensating.com/posts/20080423.html).
gravenhurst 04-24-08, 11:51 PM	The Black Abyss is described in detail in A Guide to the Ethereal Plane by Bruce Cordell, in the chapter on demiplanes. This was updated and expanded in Dragon #353, in an article by our own Shemeska the Marauder. Here is a cartoon relevant to the topic of 666 (and 616) (http://www.overcompensating.com/posts/20080423.html). Oh please do tell. You know I do not have Planscape material (4 books only). No teasing. How similar, or not, is it to my description here in this thread?
Artifact 05-05-08, 10:09 PM	Ah, the 666th layer. I actually DMed a adventure through it a long time ago! I forget the details but I put forth with idea: The layers of the Abyss are slowly being dragged down into the 666th layer, this happens at a rate so slow that most Abyssal lords don't even know. A new layer grows as one is dragged into 666, so layer 1 becomes 2, layer 45 becomes 46 ect. as the current 665 is destroyed. The layer is covered in ruins, many of them look like current Abyssal cities, towers similiar to the City of Dis appear rusted and torn. Perhaps the demon lords are not as chaotic and original as they think. In a sense, 666 is a "black hole", within which can be found the decaying remains of the Abyss as it existed untold millennia ago. The lure of evil (as it were). What an awesome idea!
Admiral_Lourve 05-06-08, 02:09 PM	In a sense, 666 is a "black hole", within which can be found the decaying remains of the Abyss as it existed untold millennia ago. The lure of evil (as it were). What an awesome idea! Thanks! :cool:
Draco_Whitewind 05-06-08, 08:47 PM	Who ever makes it up better have it ruled by this guy http://www.fastnbulbous.com/eddie_satan.jpg Here's Eddie! :D Wow, Someone else actually thought up the same thing I was about to post because of the Song number of the beast.
ArkhamInmate 05-07-08, 06:43 PM	Here's Eddie! :D Wow, Someone else actually thought up the same thing I was about to post because of the Song number of the beast. Finally!! someone mentioned him
Asra 05-13-08, 09:13 AM	I like to think that Nero Caesar is on the 666th layer of the Abyss, being fed grapes by Succubi and Incubi for some reason, while playing the violin... I imagine he would have some bard levels.
Rinian2 05-21-08, 04:30 AM	Does the number 666 even have any meaning in D&D mythology?Of course it does! Well it did when people still used to roll dice to determine their stats. 3d6 for every one of the 6 stats and the result everyone wanted to see was 6 6 6! Woo hoo 18! If that ain't mythology and meaning I'll eat my pointy hat. And the 666th layer has to be the real world.
Sinfire Titan 05-21-08, 12:27 PM	I actually have designated that layer as Earth, as this hell-hole we live in very much reminds me of the Abyss.
xPariahx 05-21-08, 01:21 PM	The 666th layer of the Abyss and the 10th layer of Hell(thats right 10 hells!) are actual one and the same they are ruled by George W Bush!!!:eek:
M-bark 05-22-08, 07:12 AM	The 666th layer of the Abyss and the 10th layer of Hell(thats right 10 hells!) are actual one and the same they are ruled by Ted!!!:eek: There. That's better. And if you want a higher number of hells, I'd pick 13.
ciaran 05-23-08, 08:36 PM	This is probably the only thread on these forums already over one page I have read all the way through. Fascinating. It is also probably the most constructive I've read. No rants or provocation? Bravo.
Aneutralshadeofblack 05-24-08, 05:57 AM	Some planes might have nicer forms of deaths - like all the layers of Celestia could be gradually transcending into the boundless light of the seventh heaven, or the layers of Elysium could be gradually sinking in the sea of Thalassia, or the layers of Gehenna are slowly dimming into the frigid darkness of Krangath, and the orbs of Carceri are spiraling inwards into the black void of Agathys as the central sphere devours the others, and the gears of Mechanus grind each other apart in a galaxy-sized mill, and Limbo - well, we already know that Limbo destroys and recreates itself continuously. The Spire is drinking up the Outlands, beginning with its magic, and the tunnels of Pandemonium are separated and spun off by the snapping maws of Agathion, and the bottomless Serpent Trench pulls and sucks at the circles of Baator, and the blades of Ocanthus cut away at the iron blocks of Acheron, and Arcadia slowly becomes more lawful and plummets one layer at a time into Mechanus to be ground by its implacable mills. The Beastlands dims and sinks into the Plane of Shadow, and Bytopia slowly rotates to reveal a third, narrow, still almost featureless wedge-shaped layer at the point where Dothion and Shurrock branch apart, to blossom into a full layer when the last central spire of Bytopia crumbles and the two sides of the sandwich crash against each other at last. Quoted for awesome and saved - that would make an awesome Doomguard creed.