Advancing the Nycaloth [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advancing the Nycaloth [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Singer_of_the_Song
03-09-07, 12:07 AM I'm running an adventure soon featuring nycaloths prominently, and the ones in 3.X are too weak. The one in MMIII is CR 10. Do you think it would be effective/appropriate for a normal nycaloth to use HD advancement to get them up to CR 16-17? Other suggestions?
Naderion
03-09-07, 07:55 AM You can allways give them class levels.
Shemeska the Marauder
03-09-07, 11:15 AM I've found rogue, fighter, or ranger levels to work well. Nycaloths with the Mortal Hunter PrC are unholy terrors as well. Fun fun.
Kain Darkwind
03-09-07, 11:44 AM I'm running an adventure soon featuring nycaloths prominently, and the ones in 3.X are too weak. The one in MMIII is CR 10. Do you think it would be effective/appropriate for a normal nycaloth to use HD advancement to get them up to CR 16-17? Other suggestions?

Hmm. I know I wrote up one after 3.5 boosted demons and devils, but I'm not at all sure it still exists on the net. I'll look through my old computer files to see if I have it there. I know it was around the power level of a 3.5 cornugon, if that is where you want it.

Otherwise, you could advance the MM3 version by 12 HD and have a supposed CR 16. Personally, I think that's a little insulting for the Nycaloth, that in order to compete with a horned devil, it would need 20+ HD.
Singer_of_the_Song
03-09-07, 01:08 PM Hmm. I know I wrote up one after 3.5 boosted demons and devils, but I'm not at all sure it still exists on the net. I'll look through my old computer files to see if I have it there. I know it was around the power level of a 3.5 cornugon, if that is where you want it.

Otherwise, you could advance the MM3 version by 12 HD and have a supposed CR 16. Personally, I think that's a little insulting for the Nycaloth, that in order to compete with a horned devil, it would need 20+ HD.

That'd be great Kain, considering how pleased I was with Dicefreaks' Gelugon. Thanks to Shemeska for the ideas as well.
Freefall
03-09-07, 01:13 PM I'm running an adventure soon featuring nycaloths prominently, and the ones in 3.X are too weak. The one in MMIII is CR 10. Do you think it would be effective/appropriate for a normal nycaloth to use HD advancement to get them up to CR 16-17? Other suggestions?

Why don't you just use the Nycaloth Commander? It is CR 17, right next to the ordinary Nycaloth in the MMIII.
Singer_of_the_Song
03-09-07, 03:47 PM Is it just an advanced nycaloth or did they tinker with it in other ways?

(I don't actually have the book, I had just jotted down the stats from my friend's copy).
Bob the Efreet
03-09-07, 05:23 PM I've found rogue, fighter, or ranger levels to work well. Nycaloths with the Mortal Hunter PrC are unholy terrors as well. Fun fun.

Listen to Shemmy. (*ahem* And that'll be a Will save, DC 16.)

Class levels are way better than HD advancement. Monster hit dice completely suck.
Tequila_Sunrise
03-09-07, 06:49 PM If you don't want to use class levels or raw HD, there is another way. Add 1 HD per CR, then add spell-like abilities equivalent to a caster of similar level. Add about +1 Str, Dex and Con per CR and about +1 Wis and Cha per 2 CRs. Then tweak minor stuff as you see fit.

TS
Witch
03-09-07, 07:05 PM That'd be great Kain, considering how pleased I was with Dicefreaks' Gelugon. Thanks to Shemeska for the ideas as well.
When DF gets back up (grmbl), I might try and get consensus on the nycaloth. The more 'loths who're revised into usefulness, the happier Witch gets ^^
Singer_of_the_Song
03-09-07, 07:37 PM When DF gets back up (grmbl), I might try and get consensus on the nycaloth. The more 'loths who're revised into usefulness, the happier Witch gets ^^

Dicefreaks giving the 'loths attention = a very happy Singer
Witch
03-09-07, 07:55 PM Well, I've recently written up a maladaemon (which is the word that I'm currently using for the DF Baernaloth - there's no consensus on the name yet) that masquerades as a devil, if you're interested. The Dicefreaks Ultroloth is almost finished, and finally presents a CR 20 challenge while staying true to its nature. As for the rest, my work on NE hasn't really been focusing on the 'loths yet (though I've thought about them quite a bit), and DF official work on 'loths will quite likely have to wait for a while longer :)
runestar
03-10-07, 12:03 AM Is there something amiss with the advanced nycaloth in MM3? Its stats seem somewhat off?:confused:
Singer_of_the_Song
03-10-07, 01:12 AM Is there something amiss with the advanced nycaloth in MM3? Its stats seem somewhat off?:confused:

At CR 10, it's far too weak to truly represent the fiend, one of the three greater yugoloths.
Kain Darkwind
03-10-07, 02:06 AM Bad news. My old stats are history.

Suggestion:

Take the MM3 Nycaloth.

Advance to 16HD.

Increase natural armor to +17

Increase claw base damage to 2d6

Increase bleeding wounds to 2 points per wound per round.

Add the following spell-like abilities: At will - alter self; 3/day - command, reverse gravity

Change summon yugoloth to 35% chance of success, 2d6 mezzoloths or 1 nycaloth.

Increase damage reduction to 10/good and mithril (if you don't like DF's mithril for yugoloths, use 10/good and high magic. High magic is the same as magic, except +3 or better instead of +1 or better)

Add immunity to mind-affecting.

Increase SR to 29

Change ability scores as follows: Str 33, Dex 25, Con 25, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 20

The nycaloth has 14 listed skills at the moment. With its new Int mod, you can put 15 ranks in 13 of those skills, with 14 ranks remaining for the last. I would suggest shafting Spellcraft.

The increase in HD will give the Nycaloth a total of 6 feats plus Mobility as a bonus feat. I would drop Alertness and Iron Will entirely.

I suggest:
Cleave, Flyby Attack, Improved Critical (greataxe), Improved Toughness, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greataxe)

(If you keep Nycaloths with 4 arms, give them Multiweapon Fighting instead of Imp Critical or Weapon Focus)

Finally, give them a +4 greataxe, or some combination that makes it a +4 weapon.

I believe these changes will give you something slightly tougher than the cornugon, which will either be a tough CR 16 or a weak CR 17. If you don't use either high magic or mithril for DR, it will be a solid CR 16. If you keep the 4 arms, it will be a solid CR 17. And if you do both, it will be back at the 16.5 it is right now.
Singer_of_the_Song
03-10-07, 02:11 AM Kain, those stats are absolutely perfect. Thanks a ton for all your help.
Kain Darkwind
03-10-07, 02:22 AM Kain, those stats are absolutely perfect. Thanks a ton for all your help.

No problem. Once DF gets back online, I plan on submitting a nycaloth with exactly the stats I've just given you as our official version.

Just to let you know, I based the stats largely off a comparison between the PS cornugon and nycaloth. The 'loth seemed stronger, had a better AC, had more HD and bonus hit points, slightly smarter and dealt 1d6 bleeding damage compared to the cornugon's 1.

The extra hit points come from Improved Toughness, the strength and int speak for themselves. I didn't give it a Cha as high as the cornugon's, but that's really just because I figured the poor cornugon had to have something going for it. The cornugon's AC is still better than the nycaloth's by 2 points, incidently. And I felt that 2 hit points was good enough for bleeding wounds.
runestar
03-10-07, 03:07 AM At CR 10, it's far too weak to truly represent the fiend, one of the three greater yugoloths.
No, I mean it seems like the advanced nycaloth in MM3 is missing the size bonuses for becoming huge...:P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Singer_of_the_Song 03-09-07, 12:07 AM	I'm running an adventure soon featuring nycaloths prominently, and the ones in 3.X are too weak. The one in MMIII is CR 10. Do you think it would be effective/appropriate for a normal nycaloth to use HD advancement to get them up to CR 16-17? Other suggestions?
Naderion 03-09-07, 07:55 AM	You can allways give them class levels.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-09-07, 11:15 AM	I've found rogue, fighter, or ranger levels to work well. Nycaloths with the Mortal Hunter PrC are unholy terrors as well. Fun fun.
Kain Darkwind 03-09-07, 11:44 AM	I'm running an adventure soon featuring nycaloths prominently, and the ones in 3.X are too weak. The one in MMIII is CR 10. Do you think it would be effective/appropriate for a normal nycaloth to use HD advancement to get them up to CR 16-17? Other suggestions? Hmm. I know I wrote up one after 3.5 boosted demons and devils, but I'm not at all sure it still exists on the net. I'll look through my old computer files to see if I have it there. I know it was around the power level of a 3.5 cornugon, if that is where you want it. Otherwise, you could advance the MM3 version by 12 HD and have a supposed CR 16. Personally, I think that's a little insulting for the Nycaloth, that in order to compete with a horned devil, it would need 20+ HD.
Singer_of_the_Song 03-09-07, 01:08 PM	Hmm. I know I wrote up one after 3.5 boosted demons and devils, but I'm not at all sure it still exists on the net. I'll look through my old computer files to see if I have it there. I know it was around the power level of a 3.5 cornugon, if that is where you want it. Otherwise, you could advance the MM3 version by 12 HD and have a supposed CR 16. Personally, I think that's a little insulting for the Nycaloth, that in order to compete with a horned devil, it would need 20+ HD. That'd be great Kain, considering how pleased I was with Dicefreaks' Gelugon. Thanks to Shemeska for the ideas as well.
Freefall 03-09-07, 01:13 PM	I'm running an adventure soon featuring nycaloths prominently, and the ones in 3.X are too weak. The one in MMIII is CR 10. Do you think it would be effective/appropriate for a normal nycaloth to use HD advancement to get them up to CR 16-17? Other suggestions? Why don't you just use the Nycaloth Commander? It is CR 17, right next to the ordinary Nycaloth in the MMIII.
Singer_of_the_Song 03-09-07, 03:47 PM	Is it just an advanced nycaloth or did they tinker with it in other ways? (I don't actually have the book, I had just jotted down the stats from my friend's copy).
Bob the Efreet 03-09-07, 05:23 PM	I've found rogue, fighter, or ranger levels to work well. Nycaloths with the Mortal Hunter PrC are unholy terrors as well. Fun fun. Listen to Shemmy. (ahem And that'll be a Will save, DC 16.) Class levels are way better than HD advancement. Monster hit dice completely suck.
Tequila_Sunrise 03-09-07, 06:49 PM	If you don't want to use class levels or raw HD, there is another way. Add 1 HD per CR, then add spell-like abilities equivalent to a caster of similar level. Add about +1 Str, Dex and Con per CR and about +1 Wis and Cha per 2 CRs. Then tweak minor stuff as you see fit. TS
Witch 03-09-07, 07:05 PM	That'd be great Kain, considering how pleased I was with Dicefreaks' Gelugon. Thanks to Shemeska for the ideas as well. When DF gets back up (grmbl), I might try and get consensus on the nycaloth. The more 'loths who're revised into usefulness, the happier Witch gets ^^
Singer_of_the_Song 03-09-07, 07:37 PM	When DF gets back up (grmbl), I might try and get consensus on the nycaloth. The more 'loths who're revised into usefulness, the happier Witch gets ^^ Dicefreaks giving the 'loths attention = a very happy Singer
Witch 03-09-07, 07:55 PM	Well, I've recently written up a maladaemon (which is the word that I'm currently using for the DF Baernaloth - there's no consensus on the name yet) that masquerades as a devil, if you're interested. The Dicefreaks Ultroloth is almost finished, and finally presents a CR 20 challenge while staying true to its nature. As for the rest, my work on NE hasn't really been focusing on the 'loths yet (though I've thought about them quite a bit), and DF official work on 'loths will quite likely have to wait for a while longer :)
runestar 03-10-07, 12:03 AM	Is there something amiss with the advanced nycaloth in MM3? Its stats seem somewhat off?:confused:
Singer_of_the_Song 03-10-07, 01:12 AM	Is there something amiss with the advanced nycaloth in MM3? Its stats seem somewhat off?:confused: At CR 10, it's far too weak to truly represent the fiend, one of the three greater yugoloths.
Kain Darkwind 03-10-07, 02:06 AM	Bad news. My old stats are history. Suggestion: Take the MM3 Nycaloth. Advance to 16HD. Increase natural armor to +17 Increase claw base damage to 2d6 Increase bleeding wounds to 2 points per wound per round. Add the following spell-like abilities: At will - alter self; 3/day - command, reverse gravity Change summon yugoloth to 35% chance of success, 2d6 mezzoloths or 1 nycaloth. Increase damage reduction to 10/good and mithril (if you don't like DF's mithril for yugoloths, use 10/good and high magic. High magic is the same as magic, except +3 or better instead of +1 or better) Add immunity to mind-affecting. Increase SR to 29 Change ability scores as follows: Str 33, Dex 25, Con 25, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 20 The nycaloth has 14 listed skills at the moment. With its new Int mod, you can put 15 ranks in 13 of those skills, with 14 ranks remaining for the last. I would suggest shafting Spellcraft. The increase in HD will give the Nycaloth a total of 6 feats plus Mobility as a bonus feat. I would drop Alertness and Iron Will entirely. I suggest: Cleave, Flyby Attack, Improved Critical (greataxe), Improved Toughness, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greataxe) (If you keep Nycaloths with 4 arms, give them Multiweapon Fighting instead of Imp Critical or Weapon Focus) Finally, give them a +4 greataxe, or some combination that makes it a +4 weapon. I believe these changes will give you something slightly tougher than the cornugon, which will either be a tough CR 16 or a weak CR 17. If you don't use either high magic or mithril for DR, it will be a solid CR 16. If you keep the 4 arms, it will be a solid CR 17. And if you do both, it will be back at the 16.5 it is right now.
Singer_of_the_Song 03-10-07, 02:11 AM	Kain, those stats are absolutely perfect. Thanks a ton for all your help.
Kain Darkwind 03-10-07, 02:22 AM	Kain, those stats are absolutely perfect. Thanks a ton for all your help. No problem. Once DF gets back online, I plan on submitting a nycaloth with exactly the stats I've just given you as our official version. Just to let you know, I based the stats largely off a comparison between the PS cornugon and nycaloth. The 'loth seemed stronger, had a better AC, had more HD and bonus hit points, slightly smarter and dealt 1d6 bleeding damage compared to the cornugon's 1. The extra hit points come from Improved Toughness, the strength and int speak for themselves. I didn't give it a Cha as high as the cornugon's, but that's really just because I figured the poor cornugon had to have something going for it. The cornugon's AC is still better than the nycaloth's by 2 points, incidently. And I felt that 2 hit points was good enough for bleeding wounds.
runestar 03-10-07, 03:07 AM	At CR 10, it's far too weak to truly represent the fiend, one of the three greater yugoloths. No, I mean it seems like the advanced nycaloth in MM3 is missing the size bonuses for becoming huge...:P