Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wyvern76 10-12-07, 04:10 PM	Many years ago, as gamers are prone to do, I attempted to create my own fantasy world. It combined bits and pieces of the world of Titan from the Fighting Fantasy gamebooks (which were my first real introduction to role-playing), and had a cosmology loosely based on Tolkien's. For those who don't know, Tolkien created a quasi-Christian mythos for Middle-Earth (which is outlined in the first two chapters of the Silmallion) that includes a Creator-God (Iluvatar), angelic beings called Ainur, and a Lucifer/Satan analogue (Melkor/Morgoth). The greatest of the Ainur (aside from Melkor) are the Valar, and I expanded on and embellished these for my own design. The purpose of this post is to share my ideas with anyone that might be interested, and also to ask for suggestions and feedback on my choice of domains and weapons for each of them. In my setting, the Church of Iluvatar has orders revering each of the different Valar (just as the Catholic Church has orders dedicated to various saints). Each of them performs a different function in the church, though some have more clearly defined roles than others. All of the Valar are of good alignment, though they vary between lawful and chaotic. (The role of "evil priest" is filled by cultists of various demon princes/queens, which I won't go into here.) Each of the Valar has one or more sacred animals, and an identifying color which is worn by their clerics. Manwė (NG) is the head of the Valar and the husband of Varda. He is noble, joyful and a natural leader. Portfolio: Sky, wind Domains: Air, Celestial, Nobility Colour: Sky blue Animals: Eagles Weapon: Javelin The clerics of Manwė usually travel the world to spread the teachings of Iluvatar and serve His will. Varda (NG), aka Elbereth, is the wife of Manwė and the creator of the stars. She is kind and graceful. Portfolio: Light, elves Domains: Charm, Elf Colour: Yellow Animals: Doves Weapon: ? Varda is revered by elves. Her clerics perform weddings and counseling. Ulmo (CG) is stern and his wrath is fearful, but he is also patient and can be very compassionate. Portfolio: Oceans Domains: Ocean, Storm, Water Colour: Dark turquoise Animals: Dolphins, gulls Weapon: Trident Ulmo is revered by sailors and fishermen. His clerics usually serve as ships' chaplains. Mandos (LG), aka Namo, is the husband of Vairė and the brother of Nienna and Lorien. He is solemn, impassive and inflexible. Portfolio: Judgment, the afterlife Domains: Inquisition, Law, Repose Colour: Black Animals: Ravens, wolves Weapon: Staff Mandos is revered by judges, and his clerics may involve themselves in judicial affairs within or outside of the church. Vairė (LG) is the wife of Mandos and weaves the tapestries which hang in the Houses of the Dead, recording the history of the world. Portfolio: Time, history, learning Domains: Fate, Knowledge, Time Colour: Blue-grey Animals: Owls, spiders Weapon: Dagger Vairė is revered by scholars, especially historians. Her clerics are scribes and record-keepers for the church. Lorien (CG), aka Irmo, is the brother of Mandos and Nienna and the husband of Estė. He is mild-tempered and vigilant. Portfolio: Dreams, illusion, visions Domains: Illusion, Magic, Oracle Colour: Pale grey Animals: Panthers Weapon: ? Lorien is revered by magicians, and his clerics usually study the arcane arts. They may also function as oracles. Estė (NG) is the wife of Lorien and tends the fountains and pools of his garden. She is gentle and compassionate. Portfolio: Rest, healing Domains: Healing, ? Colour: White Animals: Swans Weapon: ? Estė is revered by physicians, and her clerics run hospices and hospitals. Nienna (NG) is the sister of Mandos and Lorien. She is sad and solemn, but her spirit is hopeful. She has great pity for the suffering of all living things. Portfolio: Mourning Domains: Community, Renewal Colour: Dark blue Animals: Cranes Weapon: ? The clerics of Nienna preside over funerals. Aulė (LG) is the husband of Yavanna and the creator of the dwarves. He is quiet and humble, finding solace in his work. Portfolio: Earth, fire, metalwork Domains: Artifice, Dwarf, Earth, Fire Colour: Red-brown Animals: Bulls Weapon: Hammer Aulė is revered by dwarves, smiths and potters. His clerics craft and look after the utensils used in worship. Yavanna (NG) is the wife of Aulė and the sister of Vana. She is wise and serene, and cares especially for plants. Portfolio: Nature, agriculture Domains: Earth, Plant Colour: Green Animals: Pheasants, pigs Weapon: Sickle Yavanna is revered by farmers and dryads. Her clerics grow food for the church. Vana (CG) is the younger sister of Yavanna and wife of Oromė. She is lively and revels in the hunt. Portfolio: Animals, husbandry, hunting Domains: Animal, ? Colour: Dark brown Animals: Hounds Weapon: Spear Vana is revered by hunters and herders. Oromė (LG) is the brother of Nessa and husband of Vana. He hunts demons and foul creatures, and together with Tulkas he represents the victory of good over evil. He is stern, resolute, and dreadful in his anger. Portfolio: Hunting, retribution Domains: Exorcism, Glory, Travel Colour: Burgundy Animals: Horses Weapon: Scimitar Oromė is revered by hunters and cavaliers. His clerics may serve as temple guards, or wandering knights meting out justice wherever they see a need. Tulkas (CG) is the husband of Nessa and the champion of the Valar. It was he who defeated Morgoth before Iluvatar cast him into the Void. He is loyal, even-tempered and usually cheerful; he laughs as he fights. Portfolio: Courage, chivalry Domains: Courage, Liberation, Strength Colour: Tan Animals: Bears Weapon: Unarmed attack Tulkas is revered by soldiers and adventurers. His clerics often live as wandering do-gooders, though they have a more carefree lifestyle than those of Oromė. Nessa (CG) is the wife of Tulkas and the sister of Oromė. She is graceful and genteel, and loves music and dancing. Portfolio: Art, music Domains: Joy, Pleasure Colour: Lavender Animals: Deer Weapon: ? Nessa is revered by bards. Her clerics serve in temple choirs.
Alpha_Moose 10-13-07, 09:02 PM	First off I must say that this is looking pretty good. If you need help a guy from the Dicefreaks forums has been working on a Middle Earth conversion for D&D (it's in my signature). The only Valar he stated up so far is Tulkas (Chaos, Courage, Good, and Strength) and Varda (Good, Healing, Protection, Sun). I would suggest looking at it for ideas. The only suggestion I have so far is to give all of them at least 3 Domains. I'll give more suggestions when I have more time to read up on what you've written. Oh, make Tulkas's weapon be an unarmed attack, seeing as how he was supposed to not use a weapon in battle.
DyloniusFunk 10-14-07, 02:02 AM	Sounds like an interesting project. I gotta get some to bed but I'll give you a few bits of feedback before i head off. Manwė (NG) is the head of the Valar and the husband of Varda. He is noble, joyful and a natural leader. Portfolio: Sky, wind Domains: Air, Nobility Colour: Sky blue Animals: Eagles Weapon: Javelin The clerics of Manwė usually travel the world to spread the teachings of Iluvatar and serve His will. I would add the Good domain. It was said in the Silmarilion that Manwe belived the lies of Melkor when he was brouhgt to Mount Taniquetil to plead his case after spending three ages in the Halls Of Mandos, Manwe belived him because he had no idea of the concept of evil as he was closest in though to Eru of all the Valar. Varda (NG), aka Elbereth, is the wife of Manwė and the creator of the stars. She is kind and graceful. Portfolio: Light, elves Domains: Charm, Elf Colour: Yellow Animals: Doves Weapon: ? Varda is revered by elves. Her clerics perform weddings and counseling. Looks good. I would add any domains associated with the stars as she was the one who created them and this is why she is most revered by the Elves who awoke in the starlight. Oromė (LG) is the brother of Nessa and husband of Vana. He hunts demons and foul creatures, and together with Tulkas he represents the victory of good over evil. He is stern, resolute, and dreadful in his anger. Portfolio: Hunting, retribution Domains: Exorcism, Retribution Colour: Burgundy Animals: Horses Weapon: Scimitar Oromė is revered by hunters and cavaliers. His clerics may serve as temple guards, or wandering knights meting out justice wherever they see a need. I would give him Travel domain as well since he was a travelerer and was the oen who discovered the elves in his journeys. Tulkas (CG) is the husband of Nessa and the champion of the Valar. It was he who defeated Morgoth before Iluvatar cast him into the Void. He is loyal, even-tempered and usually cheerful; he laughs as he fights. Portfolio: Courage, chivalry Domains: Glory, Strength Colour: Tan Animals: Bears Weapon: Mace Tulkas is revered by soldiers and adventurers. His clerics often live as wandering do-gooders, though they have a more carefree lifestyle than those of Oromė. Give him Chaos, he is described as a free spirit. He only came to Arda to fight Melkor and was the last of the Valar to enter. Also make his favorite weapon Unarmed Strike because he is allways described as fighting with his hands. Thats all i can offer since i don't have any sources other than the SRD to work with but i hope those ideas help you.
Wyvern76 10-16-07, 12:45 PM	Thank you both for your feedback. I've made most of the additions you suggested. I'd like to have at least three domains for each, but I couldn't find enough appropriate ones for each of them. I agree that Varda should definitely have the Star domain, but there doesn't seem to be one. Maybe I'll create one myself. I didn't give them alignment domains (except for Mandos, who embodies Law) because they're all Good. I've given Manwė the Celestial domain instead, and given Tulkas the Liberation domain (which I think is more appropriate than Chaos). I've also given the Joy and Pleasure domains to Nessa (I think I'll create a Music domain for her as well), the Renewal domain to Estė, changed Lorien's Divination domain to Oracle (it appears to have been renamed in 3.5), and transferred the Glory domain to Oromė (replacing Retribution), now that Tulkas has Courage. Incidentally, this site (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/) has a PDF file listing published clerical domains, which I used as a reference when picking domains for the Valar. Wyvern
Alpha_Moose 10-16-07, 05:02 PM	I didn't give them alignment domains (except for Mandos, who embodies Law) because they're all Good. I think that Clerics can choose any domains based on their deity's alignment anyways (whether or not the deity has the listed domain), so that's not a big deal.
kintire 10-17-07, 06:20 AM	Looks generally good to me, just a couple of comments: Varda (NG), aka Elbereth, is the wife of Manwė and the creator of the stars. She is kind and graceful. Portfolio: Light, elves Domains: Charm, Elf Colour: Yellow Animals: Doves Weapon: ? Varda is revered by elves. Her clerics perform weddings and counseling. I think there needs to be a slightly harder edge to this; she's a bit fluffy. She was actually less taken in by Morgoth than her husband, and it is notable that when people are moved to call on the Valar for protection from unnatural creatures (such as Frodo on Weathertop, or in Shelob's lair) it is Elbereth they call on. She has her kind and graceful aspect, but she's also the Valar of choice for Smite Evil and Turn Undead... Vana (CG) is the younger sister of Yavanna and wife of Oromė. She is lively and revels in the hunt. Portfolio: Animals, husbandry, hunting Domains: Animal, ? Colour: Dark brown Animals: Hounds Weapon: Spear Vana is revered by hunters and herders. Nessa (CG) is the wife of Tulkas and the sister of Oromė. She is graceful and genteel, and loves music and dancing. Portfolio: Art, music Domains: Joy, Pleasure Colour: Lavender Animals: Deer Weapon: ? Nessa is revered by bards. Her clerics serve in temple choirs. Don't you have these the wrong way round? Nessa is associated with wild animals, especially deer, and wild places, while Vana is youth, joy and dance. Also fire: Arien was in charge of watching over the flowers of Vana before she was given her new job (Be The Sun).
Wyvern76 10-18-07, 03:03 PM	I think there needs to be a slightly harder edge to this; she's a bit fluffy. She was actually less taken in by Morgoth than her husband, and it is notable that when people are moved to call on the Valar for protection from unnatural creatures (such as Frodo on Weathertop, or in Shelob's lair) it is Elbereth they call on. She has her kind and graceful aspect, but she's also the Valar of choice for Smite Evil and Turn Undead...So how do you suggest I reflect that in her stats? (I may give her the Protection domain, since none of the others have it.) Don't you have these the wrong way round? Nessa is associated with wild animals, especially deer, and wild places, while Vana is youth, joy and dance.Keep in mind that this is a *loose* interpretation. Nessa and Vana are the least detailed of all the Valar, so I had to extrapolate and embellish to come up with portfolios for them. (As described by Tolkien, they're both joyful and carefree and loved by animals; practically interchangeable with each other, or with Snow White for that matter.) Nessa is described as the Dancer, so I extrapolated on that to make her the patron of music and the arts. Vana is the sister of Yavanna and the wife of Oromė, the great hunter, so I split Yavanna's portfolio and made Vana responsible for animal life, with Yavanna focusing more on plant life. Also fire: Arien was in charge of watching over the flowers of Vana before she was given her new job (Be The Sun).And if I statted Arien, I'd give her the Fire and Sun domains. Here's my new Light domain for Varda: Light Granted Power: You gain low-light vision. If you already have low-light vision, you gain superior low-light vision (see four times as far in dim light). 1. Nimbus of Light 2. Daylight 3. Searing Light 4. Rainbow Pattern 5. Moon Path 6. Permanent Image 7. Starmantle 8. Prismatic Spray 9. Prismatic Sphere I'm not having much luck with a Music domain for Nessa. Here's what I've got so far; I'd appreciate any suggestions to fill in the blanks. Music Granted Power: You cast sonic spells at +1 caster level. 1. Calm Emotions 2. Enthrall 3. Good Hope 4. 5. 6. Song of Discord 7. Sympathetic Vibration 8. Irresistable Dance 9. I still need more domains for Estė and Nienna as well (and favored weapons for several of them). Wyvern
ArcTan 10-18-07, 11:33 PM	Sticking to the PHB for ideas, I'd say: 4. Shout 5. Legend Lore 9. Wail of the Banshee
Guardian1 10-18-07, 11:47 PM	I would make Bless Weapon one of Elbereth's domain spells, as any weapon blessed by her is incredibly dangerous to anything from Mordor. In the original Middle-Earth role-playing game, Sauron's really powerful minions (the Nazgul) could only be harmed by silver or any weapon blessed in Elbereth's name, as any other weapon would melt upon making contact.
ArcTan 10-18-07, 11:55 PM	Give Elbereth the Glory domain rather than the Light domain. Given how important she is in the war against Evil and how much power her name bears to destroy creatures of Evil, I think it's appropriate.
The Ubbergeek 10-19-07, 12:42 AM	Could we see The Advesary - morgroth, too?
Bloodsoul 10-20-07, 03:14 AM	A Melkor/Morgoth comparison would be interesting, especially if one were to follow Morgoth's Ring (which would almost make him another Tharizdun). ...I also want to see stats for Bill the Pony.
kintire 10-22-07, 07:13 AM	So how do you suggest I reflect that in her stats? (I may give her the Protection domain, since none of the others have it.) I think thats a good idea. I'd also give her a domain with Greater Turning. (As described by Tolkien, they're both joyful and carefree and loved by animals; practically interchangeable with each other, or with Snow White for that matter.) Its not quite that bad, although they don't get much attention... Nessa, the sister of Oromė, and she also is lithe and fleetfooted. Deer she loves, and they follow her train wherever she goes in the wild; but she can outrun them, swift as an arrow with the wind in her hair. In dancing she delights, and she dances in Valimar on lawns of never-fading green. She loves deer, she "goes in the wild", she's as swift as an arrow and she dances. Animal, Travel and some domains associated with the wilderness, I would say, and I really don't see her as "genteel". The spouse of Oromė is Vįna, the Ever-young; she is the younger sister of Yavanna. All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and all birds sing at her coming. Her name means "beauty" by the way. And I think you miss the point about Arien. The Maia aren't assigned to the Valar at random, although they do have free will and can learn from several. Still, they tend to be lesser themes of their Vala's area. For example, Ulmo is Water, Osse is stormy and violent water, Uinen is calm water. The fact that Arien, the Sun, was a Maia of Vana means that Vana is very likely to have firey/Sun associations. Interestingly, flowers do open if the sun glances upon them, and flower most in Spring and Summer, and birds sing at dawn. I would suggest that Vana is associated with spring and summer in general and warmth and the sun in particular.
Alpha_Moose 10-22-07, 04:49 PM	I think thats a good idea. I'd also give her a domain with Greater Turning. Give her the Sun domain and rename it the Star or Light domain or something.
Wyvern76 10-23-07, 01:08 PM	Once again, I'd like to stress that this is a *loose* interpretation of the Valar that was originally intended for use in a setting of my own design (not Middle-Earth). I'd appreciate suggestions on filling in the gaps, but I'm not really interested in arguing about the choices I've already made. If you think that Varda should have the Glory domain, then by all means give her the Glory domain when you use her in your campaign. Give her the Sun domain and rename it the Star or Light domain or something.The problem is, many of the Sun domain spells are specifically fiery, which doesn't work so well for a Star domain (I mean the mythical connotations of stars, not the scientific concept of stars as giant balls of plasma). Also, the anti-undead focus of the Sun domain doesn't really fit all concepts (works fine for Pelor, not so well for Apollo). Likewise, the Moon domain is specifically anti-lycanthrope. That's why I opted to create a new, more general Light domain (note that I did include searing light, so it's not entirely lacking in offensive spells). Could we see The Advesary - morgroth, too?Sorry, I don't have any plans for statting Morgoth. It shouldn't be hard, though - just give him whatever "evil" domains you think are appropriate. I think thats a good idea. I'd also give her a domain with Greater Turning.If I were going for a more aggressive interprtation of Varda, I'd give her the Glory domain (which grants a turning bonus and includes disrupt undead, bless weapon, searing light, holy sword and sunbeam), and give Oromė back the Retribution domain. She loves deer, she "goes in the wild", she's as swift as an arrow and she dances. Animal, Travel and some domains associated with the wilderness, I would say, and I really don't see her as "genteel".Well, I've already given the Travel domain to Oromė, and I'm trying to avoid overlap, but now that I look at it, the Celerity domain would be perfect for her. The fact that Arien, the Sun, was a Maia of Vana means that Vana is very likely to have firey/Sun associations. Interestingly, flowers do open if the sun glances upon them, and flower most in Spring and Summer, and birds sing at dawn. I would suggest that Vana is associated with spring and summer in general and warmth and the sun in particular.All those associations with light sound more appropriate for Varda. The way I "interpreted" Vana was as an analogue to Diana/Artemis (but without the moon associations). Sticking to the PHB for ideas, I'd say: 4. Shout 5. Legend Lore 9. Wail of the BansheeI chose not to use shout or wail of the banshee because I'm trying to create a domain that reflects music as an artform, not just as a sound wave. Now, does anyone have suggestions for more domains for Estė and Nienna? Wyvern
ArcTan 10-23-07, 11:20 PM	I chose not to use shout or wail of the banshee because I'm trying to create a domain that reflects music as an artform, not just as a sound wave. I can see that argument for shout, but the way I interpret wail of the banshee is that it's a plaintive lament so mournful and haunting that anyone who hears it and isn't strong enough is struck dead with grief and pain (rather than some kind of science-fiction "sonic attack").