Post/Author/DateTime	Post
khyron1144 10-31-07, 11:02 PM	I recently obtained Necromancer's Tome of Horrors. It looks pretty nifty. One of the nifty ideas was turning the old Cat Lord unique monster/ NPC into a template called Animal Lord. One of the biggest effects of this template is that it creates a 20 HD Outsider. By a strange coincidence WotC's Deties & Demigods stats up the Gods as 20 HD Outisders who also have around 40 class levels. I've started playing around with these two ideas a bit and started creating a mini-pantheon of Animal Lord Gods.
ripvanwormer 10-31-07, 11:22 PM	That idea was originally presented in the 2nd edition Monstrous Compendium: Outer Planes Appendix, which included the Cat Lord as one of several different Animal Lords (a lizard lord, wolf lord, and hawk lord also appeared under the main Animal Lord entry). The idea was also used in Planescape. Anyway, the Tome of Horrors took the idea from there. The 2nd edition Animal Lord wasn't very interesting statistically compared to the 1e Cat Lord, though.
khyron1144 10-31-07, 11:27 PM	That idea was originally presented in the 2nd edition Monstrous Compendium: Outer Planes Appendix, which included the Cat Lord as one of several different Animal Lords (a lizard lord, wolf lord, and hawk lord also appeared under the main Animal Lord entry). The idea was also used in Planescape. Anyway, the Tome of Horrors took the idea from there. Thanks I didn't know that. I bought only two of the looseleaf format Monstrous Compendia from 2e: Spelljammer and Forgotten Realms. I also have almost no Planescape stuff. I only knew the Cat Lord from his appearance in the 1e Monster Manual II
DebiHuman 11-01-07, 03:27 PM	I recently obtained Necromancer's Tome of Horrors. It looks pretty nifty. One of the nifty ideas was turning the old Cat Lord unique monster/ NPC into a template called Animal Lord. One of the biggest effects of this template is that it creates a 20 HD Outsider. By a strange coincidence WotC's Deties & Demigods stats up the Gods as 20 HD Outisders who also have around 40 class levels. I've started playing around with these two ideas a bit and started creating a mini-pantheon of Animal Lord Gods. I hope you post some of them here (hint, hint). I like Tome of Horrors quite a bit. Debby
Malcadon 11-03-07, 11:26 AM	I have been using The Tome of Horrors book for some time. Its a dame good book with lots of classic monsters from 1st ed. I'm an old-school gamer, and I remember The Cat Lord from the old MMII book. The Cat Lord is one of my favorite monsters. He has a cool mid 70's - early 80's look to him. I also like The Mouse Lady, she looks sooo dame cuuute. When I see them together, I imagine the Cat Lord snaking up the Mouse Lady to tickle her or to do other kinky things to her. I got the old Tome of Horrors book, but I'm planing on getting the revised Tome of Horrors book.
khyron1144 11-03-07, 03:15 PM	I hope you post some of them here (hint, hint). I like Tome of Horrors quite a bit. Debby I intend to post some soon. Right now, I'm grappling with whether to go by the printed template's Always Neutral alignment; ignore that Always Neutral alignment; assume that two out of the four Animal Lords I might post are in that about 1% or less of creatures whose creature type says always alignment X but aren't actually alignment X; or add an aligned creature template (like Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, or Anarchic) to them before making them full deities. Right now, I've got four that I've been working on: Mr. Fox (Fox Lord) King Hippo (Hippo Lord) Raven (Raven Lord) The Gorilla King (Ape Lord) I figure a Neutral allignment is okay for the Ape Lord and Hippo Lord, but The Fox Lord and Raven Lord feel like they ought to be Chaotic Neutral, given the reputation the animals themselves have and the mythological backgrounds of thier rulers. In Native American tales Raven is a great trickster, possibly second only to Coyote.
Thanael 11-04-07, 12:59 PM	Note that in the 2E version there are only animal lords for broad categories of animals: i.e. the Cat Lord is in truth the Feline Lord, ruling over all different kinds of felines.
ArgulFraster 11-07-07, 11:46 AM	If someone would post pictures I would be much appreciative.
ripvanwormer 11-08-07, 12:50 PM	Note that in the 2E version there are only animal lords for broad categories of animals: i.e. the Cat Lord is in truth the Feline Lord, ruling over all different kinds of felines. Not always true. For example, in 2e the Fox Lord and the Wolf Lord were separate beings. It was more a matter of politics than anything else, I suspect. For example, the Cat Lord likely conquered and forcibly subordinated the other feline lords.
Gray Richardson 11-08-07, 11:34 PM	There was an ancient cat lord, or perhaps goddess of cats, revered by the Turami and Mulan peoples of Faerūn, her name was Felidae, but she was subsumed into the persona of Bast. I assume she was a cat lord, though she may not have been. There are many beast lords in the 1E Deities & Demigods, including Camazotz (lord of bats), Fileet (Lady of the Birds), Haaashastaak (master of all lizardkind), Meerclar (mistress of catkind), Nuuurrrr'c'c' (master of the insect swarm), nuru-ah (master of cattle), Roofdrak (master of dogs). I think Remnis, lord of eagles, might also qualify as a beast lord, or at least might have once been one. Laogzed and Sekolah too. Tolkien was a strong influence on Gygax and the early D&D designers. Tolkien had a lord of eagles (Gwaihir in the 3rd age, and Thorondor in the 1st age). And Shadowfax was a lord of horses. But these were more paragons of their breed rather than divine entities. But I would wager these critters made a strong impression on Gygax, as well as Moorcock, and may be the seminal beast lords from which the D&D beast lords derived.
Malcadon 11-14-07, 07:31 PM	If you want to see the animal lords on d20 then go to RPGNow as that are having a "ThanksGiveAway (http://enworld.rpgnow.com/thanksgiveaway.php)"! For today only, you can get the Revised Tome of Horrors (http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=3019&it=1) for free! They got lots of other good stuff! Get them while they are free! They are updating this daily! (if you cant access it, then you must signed up)
celestialkin 11-22-07, 08:16 PM	Was it ever explained how the 1st Cat Lord managed to come back from the dead, or what happened to the 2nd Cat Lord? I am 99% confident the current Cat Lord in the Epic Level Handbook is the same as the one who appeared in 1st Edition. Everything from his description to his clothing (see pics) is the same, and the Cat Lord entry in the Epic Level Handbook is almost a word for word copy of teh Cat Lord 1st Edition MM2 entry, except the wording/grammar is more modern. However, Rexfelis (the 1st edition Cat Lord) was supposedly killed off in 2nd edition, and I was told there was a whole adventure/module which dealt with how the 2nd Cat Lord was being framed for his death. Yet Rexfelis mysteriously reappears in 3rd edition, and there is no sign of the beautiful 2nd Cat Lord. Don't get me wrong. I may be a young player, and Rexfelis first appeared a while before I was even born, but I am a huge fan of him. There is something about him which just fits my personality perfectly. However, I would still like to know what happened to the 2nd Cat Lord. Now that I think about it, is there any chance we might ever see any of the other Animal Lords published again? Or is the Cat Lord's entry in the Epic Level Handbook likely to be the last time any of them are ever mentioned? I really hope not. :( The Cat Lord (Rexfelis) from AD&D MM2: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/ADDMM2versionAndsupposedlythenew35E.png The Cat Lord & Mouse Lord from Tomes of Horror (3rd party) (Supposed to be the AD&D Cat Lord): http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/TheCatLordMouseLordfromTomesofHo-1.png The Cat Lord from the 3.5 Epic Level Handbook: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/35EpicLevelHandbookversionAndsuppos.png Is it Rexfelis, or is it a completely different Cat Lord?
Thanael 11-23-07, 04:18 AM	I just attribute that to a general disregard of previous edition lore, laziness, and let's make it new and cooool attitude of the 3E designers. I mean a rapier named Whiskers ? Come on. I'll have to take a look at how the ToH statted Rexfelis. Going from the 1E stats and with the 3E ELH HD I would make Rexfelis a Werepanther3/Rogue7/Monk20/Shadowdancer10. BTW as a Catlord fan did you read the Gord the Rogue books?
Thanael 11-23-07, 05:00 AM	There was an ancient cat lord, or perhaps goddess of cats, revered by the Turami and Mulan peoples of Faerūn, her name was Felidae, but she was subsumed into the persona of Bast. I assume she was a cat lord, though she may not have been. There are many beast lords in the 1E Deities & Demigods, including Camazotz (lord of bats), Fileet (Lady of the Birds), Haaashastaak (master of all lizardkind), Meerclar (mistress of catkind), Nuuurrrr'c'c' (master of the insect swarm), nuru-ah (master of cattle), Roofdrak (master of dogs). I think Remnis, lord of eagles, might also qualify as a beast lord, or at least might have once been one. Laogzed and Sekolah too. Tolkien was a strong influence on Gygax and the early D&D designers. Tolkien had a lord of eagles (Gwaihir in the 3rd age, and Thorondor in the 1st age). And Shadowfax was a lord of horses. But these were more paragons of their breed rather than divine entities. But I would wager these critters made a strong impression on Gygax, as well as Moorcock, and may be the seminal beast lords from which the D&D beast lords derived. Most interesting info. I'll have to dig out my 1E DDG. What is your source on Felidae? As for more animal lords: The elven deity Solonor Thelandira is often accompanied by the Wolf-lord according to Elves of Evermeet iirc. No name is given for that one though. Similar to Laogzed and Sekolah, Mershaulk, Yig or Sseth could have evolved from a serpent lord.
celestialkin 11-23-07, 06:42 AM	I just attribute that to a general disregard of previous edition lore, laziness, and let's make it new and cooool attitude of the 3E designers. I mean a rapier named Whiskers ? Come on. I'll have to take a look at how the ToH statted Rexfelis. Going from the 1E stats and with the 3E ELH HD I would make Rexfelis a Werepanther3/Rogue7/Monk20/Shadowdancer10. BTW as a Catlord fan did you read the Gord the Rogue books? Thanks for your input! If it was out of laziness I really can't complain. I like the guy, so I'll just take it as a lucky break. As for the Gord the Rogue books, I have heard of them, but I believe they were printed before I was born and are probably long out of print. I wish I could find them, though. :( Was Rexfelis a big part of those books, or was he simply referenced on rare occasions? Either way I would probably read them to learn any new information about him. Most interesting info. I'll have to dig out my 1E DDG. What is your source on Felidae? As for more animal lords: The elven deity Solonor Thelandira is often accompanied by the Wolf-lord according to Elves of Evermeet iirc. No name is given for that one though. Similar to Laogzed and Sekolah, Mershaulk, Yig or Sseth could have evolved from a serpent lord. Thank you for the helpful information. I will definitely be looking around for an old 1E DDG, and possibly a Elves of Evermee. I got lucky and found a 1ed MM2 in nice condition for $20 or so. Bought it immediately just for Rexfelis' entry. :D As for my source on Felidae, if you are referring to the 2nd (female) Cat Lord I do not believe she has anything to do with the deity Felidae. The 2nd Cat Lord appeared in the 2nd edition Planescape book: Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix I. This book had her entry and stats, along with the entry and stats for a Lizard Lord (male), a Hawk Lord (female), and a Wold Lord (male). It also used a Rabbit Lord for examples a few times. If Fileet (Lady of the Birds) turned out to be the 2nd edition Hawk Lord, if Haaashastaak (master of all lizardkind) turned out to be the 2nd edition Lizard Lord, Roofdrak (master of dogs) turned out to be the 2nd edition Wolf Lord, and Meerclar (mistress of catkind) turned out to be the 2nd edition Cat Lord than I finally learned their names. Thanks for that quote (where is it from?). It seems that TSR liked keeping them mysteriously nameless, until they named them somewhere else. However, the book had no explanation of why there was a completely new Cat Lord. I read somewhere that what happened to Rexfelis was part of some adventure, and that she was being accused of murdering him after she took his place. I have been dying to know what adventure this was. Here is the 2nd Cat Lord, the Hawk Lord, the Lizard Lord, and the Wolf Lord from the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix I: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/118340807540.jpg http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/HawkLordLizardLordedited.png http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/TheWolfLord.png The Cat Lord is one of my favorite monsters. He has a cool mid 70's - early 80's look to him. I also like The Mouse Lady, she looks sooo dame cuuute. When I see them together, I imagine the Cat Lord snaking up the Mouse Lady to tickle her or to do other kinky things to her. :rofl: I am so happy I was not the only one. And it's good to know I am not the only Cat Lord fan out there. I don't know why, but I am fascinated by him, and another lesser known deity. I have yet to have a character which didn't worship one of them, and I often make it evident in my characters (like having them always helping stray cats, or not willing to fight big cats). It might be a bit weird, though.
Malcadon 11-23-07, 08:57 AM	:rofl: I am so happy I was not the only one. And it's good to know I am not the only Cat Lord fan out there. I don't know why, but I am fascinated by him, and another lesser known deity. I have yet to have a character which didn't worship one of them, and I often make it evident in my characters (like having them always helping stray cats, or not willing to fight big cats). It might be a bit weird, though. Well what can I say? Cats kick ass! And the Cat Lord is one cool dude! :cool: As for the Mouse Lady... ...well she is sooo cute! :love: (mostly because she reminds me of a girl I had a crush on back in junior-high :cloud9:) http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/TheCatLordMouseLordfromTomesofHo-1.png Now the 2nd Cat Lady is HOT!!! :drool: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/118340807540.jpg As for the ultimate Master of All Cats! We all know is Bast! :bow: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dd_gallery/dd3/Bast_p143.jpg (dame it! why are her knockers covered? it don't look right! :noway:) Years ago, I was playing an Egyptian styled setting (think Necropolis). Bast and the Cat Lord had a big part in the game. This was a big hit with my players. All my players had their PCs became worshipers of Bast. They also liked how an ordained Priestess of Bast (http://malcadon.deviantart.com/art/Basti-Priestess-59335404)* would also become a Were-Lioness. As a favorer to the players for helping out stays and defending helpless cats, they get to meet the nameless Cat Lord, and he gives aid and advice to the characters when they really need it. :) Thanks Celestialkin for all the cool Animal Lord art! I'm also glad to know that He even has a name (even if its Latin for Cat Lord [Rex=King; Felis=Cats]). *this is from my own gallery. Its a little NSFW!
Thanael 11-23-07, 04:29 PM	Thanks for your input! If it was out of laziness I really can't complain. I like the guy, so I'll just take it as a lucky break. As for the Gord the Rogue books, I have heard of them, but I believe they were printed before I was born and are probably long out of print. I wish I could find them, though. :( Was Rexfelis a big part of those books, or was he simply referenced on rare occasions? Either way I would probably read them to learn any new information about him. [...] Thank you for the helpful information. I will definitely be looking around for an old 1E DDG, and possibly a Elves of Evermeet. I got lucky and found a 1ed MM2 in nice condition for $20 or so. Bought it immediately just for Rexfelis' entry. :D No you misunderstand me. I find the 1E Catlord the most intriguing and his conversion to 3E utterly lacking. AFAIK he was not officially killed off, but rather another succeeded to his position. You bought a 1ed MM2 for $20 ? I hope it was in brandnew condition at least. 1E MM2s go for under $5 on ebay. They“re a dime a dozen. Same with 1e DDG. Elves of Evermeet a maximum $10 i guess. And you can always grab a pdf for $ 4. Don“t get your hopes too high with the 1E DDG though. I think Gray Richardson misplaced all but 3 of his animal lords: Camazotz, Sekolah and Laogzed are indeed in the 1E DDG, the others appear in the Planescape MC for the first time. Better get yourself the Gord the Rogue books, they maybe old, but they do crop up on ebay sometimes and should not be too expensive (except perhaps for the last one). Or you might get lucky in a used books store. Rexfelis features quite a bit in them albeit mostly as a supporting character. The protagonists visit his home-demiplane though, the Manse of the Catlord. Also there“s a short story involving Gord the Rogue and Rexfelis in Dragon #100: "At Moonset Blackcat Comes" For summaries of the novels check out this site (http://home.versanet.de/~f-dyck/GHBooks.txt), this thread (http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=815&), and/or check out the incredible Gord“s Greyhawk index by Chris Siren (http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/gordmain.html), esp. the entries on The Manse of the Catlord (http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/inner.html#catlord). As for my source on Felidae, ... I was asking Grey Richardson. Thanks for that quote (where is it from?). It seems that TSR liked keeping them mysteriously nameless, until they named them somewhere else. ? Huh ? What quote? Do you mean the post by Gray Richardson up the thread? However, the book had no explanation of why there was a completely new Cat Lord. I read somewhere that what happened to Rexfelis was part of some adventure, and that she was being accused of murdering him after she took his place. I have been dying to know what adventure this was. I never heard of any such adventure and I“ve been hunting down obscure leads on Rexfelis for a time now. Roger Moore“s Greyhawk campaign index (http://weirdscifi.ratiosemper.com/greyhawk/downloads/word/gh_index.rtf) mentions an adventure in Polyhedron #49: "Cataclysm: Part Two: The Last Bastion of Bast" (Michael Selinker): This part of a generic adventure includes a detailed encounter with the Cat Lord (Rexfelis), an important figure in the GREYHAWK setting. That adventure does not explain his succession though. I always figured the 2E Planescape guys just made up something new. Their concept of animal lords is a bit different from the 1E Rexfelis in MM2. The Planescape animal lords are more like paragon animals humanified and they reside on the Beastlands. Rexfelis otoh is more similar to natural lycanthrope and resides on his own demiplane. Rexfelis is more akin to the Hero- and Quasideities of the World of Greyhawk which maks him all the more interesting to me. He is also noted to be one of the few associates of the deity Xan Yae, and was there when Zuoken ascended to (demi)godhood. (Those three make for a very interesting trio).
Thanael 11-23-07, 04:43 PM	Oh and as for pictures, i like the other picture from the 1E MM2 best.http://home.versanet.de/~f-dyck/Catlord1.jpg
Thanael 11-23-07, 04:47 PM	I recently obtained Necromancer's Tome of Horrors. It looks pretty nifty. One of the nifty ideas was turning the old Cat Lord unique monster/ NPC into a template called Animal Lord. One of the biggest effects of this template is that it creates a 20 HD Outsider. By a strange coincidence WotC's Deties & Demigods stats up the Gods as 20 HD Outisders who also have around 40 class levels. I've started playing around with these two ideas a bit and started creating a mini-pantheon of Animal Lord Gods. Not so strange a coincidence i“d wager. The (Planescape) animal lords are quasi-divine slash paragon-like representants of their race/kind. Though I personally find the 20 outsider hitdice of the DDG gods an utterly stupid idea and genreally subscribe to Dicefreaks“ Deity Rules which make much more sense imho.