Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tridiak 12-12-06, 01:50 AM	Does anyone have information abouth the 7th level of 7 heavens/Celestia? What does it do to non-LGs? Ignoring the problem of finding a tuning fork for plane shift (a few probably exist somewhere), what is stopping non-deities from simply plane shifting/Gating to the lay? etc Mark
sinrae_kinesti 12-12-06, 02:14 AM	the manual of the planes states that little is known of the seventh layer of celestia only that none who have gone there ever return. it is rumored that those who go and are not truly worthy are obliterated and erased from history. but those who do attain it become one with celestia itself. my thoughts are that wizards wanted this layer to be a mystery and entirely up to your dungeon master to decide what truly happens here.
Gray Richardson 12-12-06, 02:42 AM	The peak of Mount Celestia is a mystery. Some believe that at the very top is a cave, and in the cave lies Jazirian, the Serpent of Lawful Good. Not the avatar that people see flitting around the cosmos, but a titanic shimmering serpent of light some thousands and thousands of miles long, if she were uncoiled. Others believe that when you get inside you'll find yourself a cheery land, such a happy and joyful and perky merryland as in this video: Candy Mountain Cave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5im0Ssyyus)
Shemeska the Marauder 12-12-06, 03:08 AM	It's not actually possible to planeshift or gate directly into the highest layer of Mount Celestia. The layer itself is only accessible from the top of the 6th layer, and beings attempting to enter (with the exception of Zaphkiel) have one of two things happen: if they're LG enough they enter the layer and none have ever returned, and if they're not LG enough they're incinerated (including very likely most archons if they attempted to enter the layer prematurely). As far as anyone knows, this holds for deities as well. It's similar to Nessus in Baator: in which the only way into the layer is through the gelugon guarded pit in Cania (though in theory there might be a portal from Sigil too). And Elysium's third layer of Belarian is also similarly cut off from most types of direct planar travel.
ripvanwormer 12-12-06, 03:12 AM	That part of you that is not lawful and good is destroyed, burnt away by the energy of the plane. That part of you that is lawful good is... transfigured. Just about everyone has a little lawful goodness in them. There's no reason that deities should be able to defy fundamental planar laws. They have to enter Chronias through the Bridge of al-Sihal in Jovar just like everyone else.
Prak, the Mad 12-12-06, 04:54 AM	Imagine taking two shotguns, aiming them at your eyes, putting them right up against your eyelids, and pulling both triggers simultaneously. I figure it's kinda like that.
Starmage21 12-12-06, 11:09 AM	PLANESCAPE was written from a planewalker's point of view. Noone has ever been, or returned from Nessus, or Chronias. WotC's books, however, merely present information that can be used(objective point of view?), and yet we still dont have anything solid on Chronias, when we should. After all, we now have a pretty good idea of what's waiting in Nessus, should your DM decide to give the PCs a chance to visit. It is rumored that the only way to get there is through Jovar, which consequently has to do with the whole LG purification ritual. Only those worthy are allowed to pass to the next level. It is also rumored, that if you were somehow able to get to the layer directly without using inter-layer travel, that you would bypass the purification. Personally, I think Zaphikel, much like the lords of the nine, has some greater planar being to report to. This greater planar being, much like Azmodeus, has absolute control over the 7th layer, and bars any planar travel much like Azmodeus does with Nessus. "He" forces all those who come there into instant judgement, and those who arent worthy are erased from existance. What other reason could Zaphikel need to travel between the two layers if there isnt anything important to his duties on the 7th layer? Its certainly something to tickle your players with :D
omegalith 12-12-06, 11:13 AM	Does Zaphkaiel actually live there?
Yanagita Kunio 12-12-06, 06:07 PM	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Paradiso_Canto_31.jpg Empyrean, from Dore's engraving representing Canto 31 of Dante's Paradiso. I tend to think of the interior of Chronias as an "inner heaven" in which the malignant aspects of individualism are burned away, resulting a transcendental, transindividual complex of Self and Other. Essentially, extract the Stoic ideal of cosmopolitanism to the point where there cease to be physical bodies intervening in the process of mutual support. Every being "within" Empyrean is thus at once cared for by others yet equally in the process of caring for others...not simply in a cyclic fashion, but an infinite stellation between all points. As such, Empyrean can be characterized at once as a single entity, a communal multitude of entities, a spiritual-mental state, and a location. The final heaven, however, is not a closed system: though the beings that enter may never "leave" Chronias, their existence within Empyrean is an act of service. Empyrean is an engine of the λόγος, transmitting the concept across the cosmos, touching mortals and outsiders alike. From it power flows to the universe miracles, temperance, resolve. Fews realize that the "Matyrdom" of the Hebdomad refers not just to their mortal deaths, but that to better guide and serve all, they experience the ongoing privation of the joy of Empyrean...some say, never to return to it--to remain suspended until despair prompts a fall.
ripvanwormer 12-12-06, 07:28 PM	The layer known as Chronias is also called Da'ath, the Limits of Knowledge, Araboth, the Great Mystery, the Illuminated Heaven, Jannatu el-Firdaus, and the Ancient of Days. It is silence, solitudes, emptiness, stillness, mystery and transcendence. Araboth is both the Eternity and the Time of all things prior to and following all days and eternity and time. It is the closest the multiverse can get to the Unknowable, which the greatest and eldest of seraphim revere; the Unknowable is cognate to the Athar's Great Unknown, and represents the positive side of their faith as the Serpent Trench of Nessus represents the negative. Chronia is the gap, the mystery. The space between the known of Jovar and the unknown. The separation created when the Aeons left the Mount for the realities beyond. It is the place where knowledge ends, the time and place of rest, the Sabbath, the sacred taboo. It is said that Chronias is ruled by Zaphkiel, the tome archon of mysteries, whose symbol is the Ass. The Ass may appear foolish, but in its innocence it communes with the Unknown. Chronius is the silent mountain, the hidden mountain, the restful mountain, the mountain that through its blankness defines the others. Land, sky, earth and element dissolve utterly here in the fires of pure law and good, which is why an artificial ziggurat is required to reach it. It is said that there are forms here, and various exalted celestial creatures occasionally descend from this layer for one reason or another, but no one who's visited it can say exactly what the experience was like. It is said that all the multiverse's Good emanates from a great Font on this plane, though the inhabitants of Elysium and Arborea disagree. Chronias seems to be as much about limitations, the boundaries set by Good, is anything else. Chronias defines the upward limit of Mount Celestia and seals off further progression, ensuring that the archons remain in contact with this level of reality and don't follow the Aeons into the supernal spheres. When petitioners have completed the last path, they ascend the infinite ziggurat and end up here, never to return.
Danvac 12-12-06, 08:49 PM	That part of you that is not lawful and good is destroyed, burnt away by the energy of the plane. . One could do a Phillip Pullman type of thing and make their energy dissolve into the plane into a state as glorious as an overdeitie. Or one could make the being ascend to an order of spirit that manipulates mortals through telepathy. Basically the 7th layer of celestia is left wide open.
caeruleus 12-13-06, 02:05 AM	I like to think that the 7th layer of Celestia simply accepts all who make their way there, as they are. In the face of such totally unconditional acceptance (Love), even a thoroughly chaotic evil soul would not want to leave. That's just my own (sappy) take. :P
SinisterSeraph 12-13-06, 02:24 AM	I like to think that the 7th layer of Celestia simply accepts all who make their way there, as they are. In the face of such totally unconditional acceptance (Love), even a thoroughly chaotic evil soul would not want to leave. That's just my own (sappy) take. :P I like that, the idea that an all forgiving love exists there. Couple that with the idea that nonlawful good elements of self are burned away or somehow removed and you get a nice parallel to the "stare to long into the Abyss and the Abyss starts staring into you" kinda thing. The reason no one returns is because everyone, and I mean everyone, just don't want to come back. It's just to much to return to such a lesser existence.
Johnny_Angel 12-13-06, 02:48 AM	PLANESCAPE was written from a planewalker's point of view. Noone has ever been, or returned from Nessus, or Chronias. WotC's books, however, merely present information that can be used(objective point of view?), and yet we still dont have anything solid on Chronias, when we should. After all, we now have a pretty good idea of what's waiting in Nessus, should your DM decide to give the PCs a chance to visit. It is rumored that the only way to get there is through Jovar, which consequently has to do with the whole LG purification ritual. Only those worthy are allowed to pass to the next level. It is also rumored, that if you were somehow able to get to the layer directly without using inter-layer travel, that you would bypass the purification. Personally, I think Zaphikel, much like the lords of the nine, has some greater planar being to report to. This greater planar being, much like Azmodeus, has absolute control over the 7th layer, and bars any planar travel much like Azmodeus does with Nessus. "He" forces all those who come there into instant judgement, and those who arent worthy are erased from existance. What other reason could Zaphikel need to travel between the two layers if there isnt anything important to his duties on the 7th layer? Its certainly something to tickle your players with :D I've always suspected that Zaphikel was Asmodeus in disguise, but that's just me. It's a conclusion I drew based upon the books I've read and based upon my opinion that they look pretty similar. Maybe nobody ever returns from the 7th layer because Asmodeus resides there and needs to protect that secret in order to further some greater scheme.
caeruleus 12-13-06, 03:35 AM	I like that, the idea that an all forgiving love exists there. Couple that with the idea that nonlawful good elements of self are burned away or somehow removed I'd prefer to say "melt away" rather than "burn away". The metaphor suits the idea better, I think. I think the unconditional love angle could also explain why it's so hard to get there. Ever do something that you feel really guilty about (I mean really guilty), to the point that you loath yourself, and the people you've harmed still love you, and you wish they'd just get angry and tell you off, so you can get angry and tell them off, so that you can avoid confronting how much you hate yourself? I think that's what it's like to get closer to Chronias. And if you don't know what it's like to feel that way, then I envy you. (Although, I suppose it's possible that you may be in denial. Some don't know what it's like to approach Chronias because they're already there, others because they've never tried. But either way, it's not for me to judge which is the case for you. ;) )
Yanagita Kunio 12-13-06, 10:38 AM	To pull a double entendre, I think the word sublimation in both the physical and psychological sense covers what happens pretty well. I would characterize Da'ath/Empyrean/whatever as just being about Unconditional Love, though...Love is definitely a part of that state/place (the Good part of Lawful Good), but it's also about the comfort and certainty inherent in knowing one's place in the cosmos, both in the sense of who should I be and what should be done (the Lawful portion of Lawful Good, shot through a beneficent skein).
arntof 12-13-06, 05:17 PM	It's similar to Nessus in Baator: in which the only way into the layer is through the gelugon guarded pit in Cania (though in theory there might be a portal from Sigil too). And Elysium's third layer of Belarian is also similarly cut off from most types of direct planar travel. Where do you get this info from? I can remember many long debates about this topic a few years ago, and I would really like to hear it if there is any new material about this. Gate-spells still seem to be more powerful than this, to me. And does not Styx provide a way into Nessus, too?
ripvanwormer 12-13-06, 05:37 PM	I can remember many long debates about this topic a few years ago. Really? What a strange thing to argue about. The planar races ought to be powerful enough to seal off layers if they want to. They've done it to several layers of the Abyss (including Sess'inek's realm). It shouldn't be impossible to mortals bypass such wards (Mordenkainen did it, which is why the Fraternity of Order even knows where Sess'inek's realm is), but it shouldn't be easy, even with ninth level magic. Because the guardinals and other powers of the plane have several good reasons to protect Belieren, it would make sense for them to do so. I don't recall if Planes of Conflict specifically said they did, and don't think it matters. It's a good idea, and that's what's important. From the descripion of the Gate spell, "Deities and other beings who rule a planar realm can prevent a gate from opening in their presence or personal demesnes if they so desire." If the entire layer isn't blocked from planar travel, the location of the Hydra of Legend and the birthplace of the Quesar should be barred specifically. And does not Styx provide a way into Nessus, too? In theory, but the Styx arrives on the layer in a tumultuous waterfall that plummets a very long distance, (see Fiendish Codex II), and is thus not a very safe means of travel. The spraying Styx water makes it disastrous even for flyers, let alone all the freaky hallucinations. The precise entrance is also presented as a successfully guarded secret (Manual of the Planes, 123). It seems reasonable to opine that even the marraenoloths don't know how to get there. I bet Taba could do it, though.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 12-13-06, 05:43 PM	I've always suspected that Zaphikel was Asmodeus in disguise, but that's just me. It's a conclusion I drew based upon the books I've read and based upon my opinion that they look pretty similar. Maybe nobody ever returns from the 7th layer because Asmodeus resides there and needs to protect that secret in order to further some greater scheme. IIRC, both Zaphkiel and Asmodeus do have a pair of magically linked mirrors. Or maybe that's just something someone here made up.
Amon_WinterfallIV 12-16-06, 01:50 AM	I thought that's where Zaphkiel keeps the souls of murdered children--and therefore serves as the ultimate sancturary for those who have never lost their innocence. Being a mechanical DM type, I'm sure that Chronias is accessible through magical means (although big epic spells might be needed). I'm also sure that It's possible to resist the effects of Chronias, again, with another saving throw (of Epic Level) ------------------------------------------------------------ I think part of the problem with "Layer 7" of Celestia is actually going to be its considerable similiarity to Purgatory--a series of levels where one becomes progressively more LG as they ascend. I believe, that if Celestia is based on this myth, then Layer 7 is Heaven itself. If this is true, then there is no terrain or topography, no landmarks or references. Everything simply gets merged into Celestia itself. ------------------------------------------------------------ Being an Atheist myself (Don't Tell St. Cuthburt), and seeing that this is no fun at all (Cheap cop out!) I'd go for the first explaination--it's the ultimate sanctuary, protected by Zaphkiel, and 70 Super-Archons. It is breakable, beatable and conquerable, and those 70 Super Archons would be spread very thin--but in a state of such harmony, no more would be needed, and the inhabitants of Chronias are either the truly innocent, highly ascended Archons who have been allowed the honor of living here due to their personal perfection, or intruders who failed their saving throw. Anyhow, to each his own!
Frieza-Prexus 12-16-06, 04:49 AM	The 7th layer is a jungle! Or, it atleast has one. If you've got Tales of the Outer Planes check page 93 it describes a Planetar's lair on the 7th layer. Mystery solved. Let's go home. *snap* Did anyone else just hear some Planescape fans die on the inside? Of course, I think the guy who wrote that encounter is barmy for even putting a description of layer 7 in print. It's there though. It's something most of us wish wasn't there now...Kinda like Die Vecna Die...
Shemeska the Marauder 12-16-06, 09:33 AM	The 7th layer is a jungle! Or, it atleast has one. If you've got Tales of the Outer Planes check page 93 it describes a Planetar's lair on the 7th layer. The planes that source is talking about don't necessarily resemble the planes that developed after 1e, and which we have now. TotOP has a planetar on the 7th layer, something which in the 2e and 3.x conception of the plane isn't possible, because the planetar would be blasted to cinders before they even got into the layer itself. While TotOP has its own description of some stuff on Chronias, it's an orphan description that's no longer relevant (like Tiamat as Lord of the 1st, the 1e MotP description of the center of the outlands, etc). Besides, TotOP has Wartle. And nobody cares about him anyway. ;)
sciborg2 12-16-06, 12:57 PM	IIRC, both Zaphkiel and Asmodeus do have a pair of magically linked mirrors. Or maybe that's just something someone here made up. That'd be interesting. I figure both are whispering to each other, attempting to virally infect the other with their alignments.
Frieza-Prexus 12-16-06, 09:40 PM	And here I was hoping to make someone's head explode. My Kung Fu is weak =(
Gray Richardson 12-17-06, 12:42 AM	Besides, TotOP has Wartle. And nobody cares about him anyway. ;)I care about Wartle. :weep: I care a great deal.
Yanagita Kunio 12-17-06, 01:40 AM	That'd be interesting. I figure both are whispering to each other, attempting to virally infect the other with their alignments. Actually, they send each other highly regimented arguments via PowerPoint presentation.
sciborg2 12-17-06, 02:09 AM	From: Asmo To: Zaph Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Good is lame a. Good helps cripples b.Cripples are lame c.Good is lame! II. We have hotter, more revealing girls down here a. Fierna b. Hag Countess...scratch that...Glaysa c. Zariel....oh crap...Tiamat...Bezonia....Well two is better than three. I mean, Sophia's not really a chick anyway From: Zaph To: Asmo Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Mommy always liked me best II. I'm a gorgeous prince made of light and a sexy bald thing going on, you're just a big worm in a gorge.
Starmage21 12-17-06, 10:37 AM	From: Asmo To: Zaph Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Good is lame a. Good helps cripples b.Cripples are lame c.Good is lame! II. We have hotter, more revealing girls down here a. Fierna b. Hag Countess...scratch that...Glaysa c. Zariel....oh crap...Tiamat...Bezonia....Well two is better than three. I mean, Sophia's not really a chick anyway From: Zaph To: Asmo Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Mommy always liked me best II. I'm a gorgeous prince made of light and a sexy bald thing going on, you're just a big worm in a gorge. ROFL
Wyvern76 12-18-06, 09:57 PM	While TotOP has its own description of some stuff on Chronias, it's an orphan description that's no longer relevant (like Tiamat as Lord of the 1st, the 1e MotP description of the center of the outlands, etc).I'm intrigued. What was at the center of the Outlands in the 1e MotP? Wyvern
malykoth 12-18-06, 10:14 PM	Perhaps Zaphkiel and Asmodeus are the same being, the ultimate True Neutral. It's front door opens onto the 6th plane of Mount Celestia, and it's back door opens onto the 8th layer of Baator. In one closet it has wings and a halo, and in another horns and a pitch fork.
Shemeska the Marauder 12-18-06, 10:18 PM	I'm intrigued. What was at the center of the Outlands in the 1e MotP? Wyvern The center of Concordant Opposition was described as appearing as a "great tower, column, mountain, waterspout, tornado, or tree." But regardless of how it appeared to any person, it couldn't be climbed or damaged in any way. So the groundwork for the Infinite Spire was certainly there, but no details much at that point.
Bob the Efreet 12-20-06, 06:01 PM	The center of Concordant Opposition was described as appearing as a "great tower, column, mountain, waterspout, tornado, or tree." But regardless of how it appeared to any person, it couldn't be climbed or damaged in any way. So the groundwork for the Infinite Spire was certainly there, but no details much at that point. Didn't even basic physics turn off at the middle of the Land? Such that matter was unable to exist?
ripvanwormer 12-21-06, 12:09 AM	Didn't even basic physics turn off at the middle of the Land? Such that matter was unable to exist? This was implied in the 2nd edition Planewalker's Handbook (in the discussion of why Sigil is an impossible city). It wasn't mentioned in 1st edition, which said only that neither mortal nor god was able to come within 500 miles of the Spire.
ssvegeta555 12-21-06, 12:56 AM	The 7th layer is full of rivers filled with Mountain Dew, forests of Cheetoes, mountains made of solid chocolate, trees that grow all kinds of pizza, chips blooming like flowers (mmm... pringles) and hills of a variety of cheeses. *drools*
caeruleus 12-21-06, 01:07 AM	The 7th layer is full of rivers filled with Mountain Dew, forests of Cheetoes, mountains made of solid chocolate, trees that grow all kinds of pizza, chips blooming like flowers (mmm... pringles) and hills of a variety of cheeses. *drools* Sounds more like a layer of the Abyss to me.
Wyvern76 12-21-06, 11:53 PM	The 7th layer is full of rivers filled with Mountain Dew, forests of Cheetoes, mountains made of solid chocolate, trees that grow all kinds of pizza, chips blooming like flowers (mmm... pringles) and hills of a variety of cheeses.Egad! So Chronias is the Big Rock Candy Mountain (http://www.bluegrasslyrics.com/all_song.cfm-recordID=s29253.htm)? :P
Nitan 12-22-06, 02:59 AM	From: Asmo To: Zaph Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Good is lame a. Good helps cripples b.Cripples are lame c.Good is lame! II. We have hotter, more revealing girls down here a. Fierna b. Hag Countess...scratch that...Glaysa c. Zariel....oh crap...Tiamat...Bezonia....Well two is better than three. I mean, Sophia's not really a chick anyway From: Zaph To: Asmo Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Mommy always liked me best II. I'm a gorgeous prince made of light and a sexy bald thing going on, you're just a big worm in a gorge. This was genius! And uh...Bezonia is dead too. Tiamat is a five headed dragon. I mean, if that's your thing I guess it's hot...
Voila! 12-22-06, 04:57 PM	I've always suspected that Zaphikel was Asmodeus in disguise, but that's just me. It's a conclusion I drew based upon the books I've read and based upon my opinion that they look pretty similar. Maybe nobody ever returns from the 7th layer because Asmodeus resides there and needs to protect that secret in order to further some greater scheme. I'm with you that there is something funny about the duality between those two. I dunno if they spring from the same source, or are like a spirit of nature with light and dark halves or what, but there's some correlation between those two great enigmatic entities that represent the full spectrum of alignment in the planes of law.
sciborg2 12-23-06, 12:42 PM	And uh...Bezonia is dead too. Tiamat is a five headed dragon. I mean, if that's your thing I guess it's hot.. Oh, the third one is the one he can't pick out because they're dead or not so hot. He just has Fierna and Glaysa to go on :)
Roivas 12-26-06, 02:49 AM	I always assumed that Zaphkiel was a being of pure evil and being absorbed into pure goodness was his way of saying that he eats your soul to expand his own power. That would explain why he guards the layers of heaven from everyone seeking him at the top and spreads rumors that no one will ever return from the top of celestia, to lure epic level characters there to feast on their pumped up souls. But then again I thought that Yoda was the true villian in the Star Wars movies, so i coul just be crazy.
Mith_The_Godling 12-26-06, 03:04 AM	I always assumed that Zaphkiel was a being of pure evil and being absorbed into pure goodness was his way of saying that he eats your soul to expand his own power. That would explain why he guards the layers of heaven from everyone seeking him at the top and spreads rumors that no one will ever return from the top of celestia, to lure epic level characters there to feast on their pumped up souls. But then again I thought that Yoda was the true villian in the Star Wars movies, so i coul just be crazy. Close, it was the Ewoks.:P
XHereticX 06-20-07, 10:04 PM	The peak of Mount Celestia is a mystery. Some believe that at the very top is a cave, and in the cave lies Jazirian, the Serpent of Lawful Good. Not the avatar that people see flitting around the cosmos, but a titanic shimmering serpent of light some thousands and thousands of miles long, if she were uncoiled. Others believe that when you get inside you'll find yourself a cheery land, such a happy and joyful and perky merryland as in this video: Candy Mountain Cave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5im0Ssyyus) LOL, charlie, rofl:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: love that vid
DwarfPcfan 06-21-07, 09:15 AM	From: Asmo To: Zaph Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Good is lame a. Good helps cripples b.Cripples are lame c.Good is lame! II. We have hotter, more revealing girls down here a. Fierna b. Hag Countess...scratch that...Glaysa c. Zariel....oh crap...Tiamat...Bezonia....Well two is better than three. I mean, Sophia's not really a chick anyway From: Zaph To: Asmo Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Mommy always liked me best II. I'm a gorgeous prince made of light and a sexy bald thing going on, you're just a big worm in a gorge. :rofl: :heehee :rofl: That so funny !!! I'm going to play a conceited astral deva just because of that...
Thegans 06-22-07, 12:35 AM	From: Asmo To: Zaph Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Good is lame a. Good helps cripples b.Cripples are lame c.Good is lame! II. We have hotter, more revealing girls down here a. Fierna b. Hag Countess...scratch that...Glaysa c. Zariel....oh crap...Tiamat...Bezonia....Well two is better than three. I mean, Sophia's not really a chick anyway From: Zaph To: Asmo Re: Why I'm Right and You are Wrong I. Mommy always liked me best II. I'm a gorgeous prince made of light and a sexy bald thing going on, you're just a big worm in a gorge. And if his daughter find out From: Glasya To:Dad Re: A few mistakes. I. Technically your a cripple II. If your so low on examples you could just promote another unique female devil or you could use the eyrinesses or pleasure devils. From:Glasya To: The person claiming to be my uncle I. You two don't have mothers II. You look dumb III. You compain too much.
ChaosVirus 06-23-07, 12:25 PM	In some ways its kinda similar to the idea that the Abyss is infinite, but also has 666 layers. So if each deeper is worse then the above, then the very bottom of this infnite abyss, must be a similar mystery to the last level of celestia. (Yeah I know infinity having an end makes no sense, but sigil has a top. Just infinite distance in between, like downward infinity, where between 0 and 1, there are infnite numbers).