Coincidence? I'm not sure... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Coincidence? I'm not sure... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aleolus
12-16-07, 02:55 AM OK, this was pointed out to me by a friend who has played Dungeons and Dragons a grand total of twice (DMing both times).

One of the most revered and respected human deities is Pelor.
Some of the most feared and powerful demons of the abyss are called Balors.
Not the similarities, not only in spelling, but in pronounciation, as well as their powers.
Is this a coincidence, or is this someone's attempt to mock Pelor?
vegetalss4
12-16-07, 02:09 PM their powers? what are you talking about?
and pelor feared? who fear pelor?(exept undead, but they do not count:P )
Space_Dragon
12-16-07, 02:47 PM *casts call Kain Darkwind*
Bloodsoul
12-16-07, 07:36 PM Considering that Balor's based on the Balrogs from The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion (unless Gygax was pulling a Vanilla Ice), I doubt there's any connection between Pelor and they, outside of their shared love of foosball.
Eldritch_Lord
12-16-07, 07:47 PM Read this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926).

Have fun. :D
Shemeska the Marauder
12-16-07, 08:09 PM Not really. In-game, balors as a caste of tanar'ri predate Pelor's worship, so their being named as such to mock him wouldn't exactly hold. Secondly, while Pelor is a widely worshipped deity among humans, he's a widely worshipped deity on only one prime material world/planet as far as anyone knows, so why would fiends name a massive subtype of themselves to mock a (relatively) small-time deity when they might do better mocking a deity of a larger pantheon worshipped across a multitude of worlds?

Out of game, Pelor is just made up, and Balors are a renamed Balrog. Connection = zero. :)
ArcTan
12-16-07, 08:15 PM You'd get a lot more mileage out of positing some kind of connection between Orcs and Orcus.
Space_Dragon
12-16-07, 09:05 PM Or paladins and Pazuzu.
ArcTan
12-18-07, 02:36 AM I was serious about the Orcs and Orcus -- the real-life etymology of those terms is related.
zeratulcraft
12-18-07, 03:28 AM Or paladins and Pazuzu.

Pazuzu does love corrupting Paladins, going so far as to make sure their first meeting turns out entirely beneficial to the Paladin.
Orchomenos
12-18-07, 08:24 AM Ok, Balors aren't named after Pelor, but what about the reverse? Where's Pelor's name coming from?
Tovec
12-18-07, 02:28 PM Read this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926).

Have fun. :D

I agree with the lord.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926
Thread called, "Pelor, the Burning Hate"

Its all about Pelor really being a devil, or at least LE. I think this might be another barely thread connection to that line of thinking.

I know that Gygax just made them sound similar but since Pelor's conception Many articles have been written that make him evil (probably LE). Other connections are similarly tied but don't try to hide it.
ie. Orc and Orcus, its an obvious connection. Luckily both are CE.
Aleolus
12-18-07, 02:45 PM Anyone on here know Latin? According to a friend of mine, both Pelor and Balor are Latin, and mean completely different things in it, both of which correspond to the being being referred to (Pelor meaning something along the lines of Lord of Light, Balor meaning Lord of Evil or something).
ArcTan
12-18-07, 08:26 PM I agree with the lord.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926
Thread called, "Pelor, the Burning Hate"

Its all about Pelor really being a devil, or at least LE. I think this might be another barely thread connection to that line of thinking.

Except Balors are Demons, and CE.

I know that Gygax just made them sound similar but since Pelor's conception Many articles have been written that make him evil (probably LE).

It's actually kind of clear that what the thread is about is WotC simply being inconsistent with their flavor, and the thread's conspiracy theorists being very dedicated to force a bunch of unrelated instances of bad editing and bad writing to fit a specific mold.

Never attribute to malice what you can to incompetence, etc.

Other connections are similarly tied but don't try to hide it.
ie. Orc and Orcus, its an obvious connection. Luckily both are CE.

I honestly think both Orcs and Orcus would be cooler if D&D *did* make that connection. (In Warcraft, the Demon Lord Mannoroth seems kind of like a visual homage to Orcus, and is the enslaver and corruptor of the Orcish race.)
ArcTan
12-18-07, 08:30 PM Anyone on here know Latin? According to a friend of mine, both Pelor and Balor are Latin, and mean completely different things in it, both of which correspond to the being being referred to (Pelor meaning something along the lines of Lord of Light, Balor meaning Lord of Evil or something).

The word "Balor", if it comes from anywhere other than "sounds like Balrog", comes from the name of the bad guy in the Celtic story of the Tuatha de Danann defeating the Formorians. Balor was the king of the Fomorian Giants and known for his power of the Evil Eye, and was slain by the great god Lugh.

I don't know much Latin, but your friend's statement sounds extremely dubious. The Latin word for "light", for instance, is "lux". The Latin word for "evil" would be "malum".

"Balor" does sound kind of like "baleful", which means "bad", but the "bale" there has nothing to do with Latin or with the Celtic Balor -- it's from Old English, a Germanic language.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aleolus 12-16-07, 02:55 AM	OK, this was pointed out to me by a friend who has played Dungeons and Dragons a grand total of twice (DMing both times). One of the most revered and respected human deities is Pelor. Some of the most feared and powerful demons of the abyss are called Balors. Not the similarities, not only in spelling, but in pronounciation, as well as their powers. Is this a coincidence, or is this someone's attempt to mock Pelor?
vegetalss4 12-16-07, 02:09 PM	their powers? what are you talking about? and pelor feared? who fear pelor?(exept undead, but they do not count:P )
Space_Dragon 12-16-07, 02:47 PM	casts call Kain Darkwind
Bloodsoul 12-16-07, 07:36 PM	Considering that Balor's based on the Balrogs from The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion (unless Gygax was pulling a Vanilla Ice), I doubt there's any connection between Pelor and they, outside of their shared love of foosball.
Eldritch_Lord 12-16-07, 07:47 PM	Read this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926). Have fun. :D
Shemeska the Marauder 12-16-07, 08:09 PM	Not really. In-game, balors as a caste of tanar'ri predate Pelor's worship, so their being named as such to mock him wouldn't exactly hold. Secondly, while Pelor is a widely worshipped deity among humans, he's a widely worshipped deity on only one prime material world/planet as far as anyone knows, so why would fiends name a massive subtype of themselves to mock a (relatively) small-time deity when they might do better mocking a deity of a larger pantheon worshipped across a multitude of worlds? Out of game, Pelor is just made up, and Balors are a renamed Balrog. Connection = zero. :)
ArcTan 12-16-07, 08:15 PM	You'd get a lot more mileage out of positing some kind of connection between Orcs and Orcus.
Space_Dragon 12-16-07, 09:05 PM	Or paladins and Pazuzu.
ArcTan 12-18-07, 02:36 AM	I was serious about the Orcs and Orcus -- the real-life etymology of those terms is related.
zeratulcraft 12-18-07, 03:28 AM	Or paladins and Pazuzu. Pazuzu does love corrupting Paladins, going so far as to make sure their first meeting turns out entirely beneficial to the Paladin.
Orchomenos 12-18-07, 08:24 AM	Ok, Balors aren't named after Pelor, but what about the reverse? Where's Pelor's name coming from?
Tovec 12-18-07, 02:28 PM	Read this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926). Have fun. :D I agree with the lord. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926 Thread called, "Pelor, the Burning Hate" Its all about Pelor really being a devil, or at least LE. I think this might be another barely thread connection to that line of thinking. I know that Gygax just made them sound similar but since Pelor's conception Many articles have been written that make him evil (probably LE). Other connections are similarly tied but don't try to hide it. ie. Orc and Orcus, its an obvious connection. Luckily both are CE.
Aleolus 12-18-07, 02:45 PM	Anyone on here know Latin? According to a friend of mine, both Pelor and Balor are Latin, and mean completely different things in it, both of which correspond to the being being referred to (Pelor meaning something along the lines of Lord of Light, Balor meaning Lord of Evil or something).
ArcTan 12-18-07, 08:26 PM	I agree with the lord. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926 Thread called, "Pelor, the Burning Hate" Its all about Pelor really being a devil, or at least LE. I think this might be another barely thread connection to that line of thinking. Except Balors are Demons, and CE. I know that Gygax just made them sound similar but since Pelor's conception Many articles have been written that make him evil (probably LE). It's actually kind of clear that what the thread is about is WotC simply being inconsistent with their flavor, and the thread's conspiracy theorists being very dedicated to force a bunch of unrelated instances of bad editing and bad writing to fit a specific mold. Never attribute to malice what you can to incompetence, etc. Other connections are similarly tied but don't try to hide it. ie. Orc and Orcus, its an obvious connection. Luckily both are CE. I honestly think both Orcs and Orcus would be cooler if D&D did make that connection. (In Warcraft, the Demon Lord Mannoroth seems kind of like a visual homage to Orcus, and is the enslaver and corruptor of the Orcish race.)
ArcTan 12-18-07, 08:30 PM	Anyone on here know Latin? According to a friend of mine, both Pelor and Balor are Latin, and mean completely different things in it, both of which correspond to the being being referred to (Pelor meaning something along the lines of Lord of Light, Balor meaning Lord of Evil or something). The word "Balor", if it comes from anywhere other than "sounds like Balrog", comes from the name of the bad guy in the Celtic story of the Tuatha de Danann defeating the Formorians. Balor was the king of the Fomorian Giants and known for his power of the Evil Eye, and was slain by the great god Lugh. I don't know much Latin, but your friend's statement sounds extremely dubious. The Latin word for "light", for instance, is "lux". The Latin word for "evil" would be "malum". "Balor" does sound kind of like "baleful", which means "bad", but the "bale" there has nothing to do with Latin or with the Celtic Balor -- it's from Old English, a Germanic language.