Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gemstone 10-01-07, 08:18 AM	During our last session, one of my players encountered a creature that was so strange and so utterly un-understandable (a garganteuan snake that moved between the dimensions, had medium size and other weird properties) that he suggested that it was from "Somewere between the planes of the great wheel. A place that is as the open spaces between planets in the solar system!". I found this idea ridiculusly cool and I'm planning to let them visit such a place while they're traveling towards the Realm of the Deity Torm (they're trying to free him from a massive catastrophe). So... any ideas on what these kind of creatures are? I'm thinking of having a template that does this: Non-Planar Creature HD: Increases by one step, up to d12's. Also gain +3 hp per level Type: Changes to Outsider [Non-Planar] Size: Improve the size category by 2 steps, but the space remains the same (thus it can have 20 ft. reach as a garganteuan creature, but still occupy a medium space) Special Qualities: 2 Energy Resistances to 10 + ½ HD Spell Disfuction (Ex): A creature from In-between simply isn't affected by spells as a normal creature would be. Whenever targeted by a spell, the caster must make a caster level check against a DC of 14+CR of the target. If the check fails, the caster must roll randomly on the "Wild Magic table" from MotP. Devour (Ex): As a Full-Round action, a Non-Planar creature can devour parts of the reality around another creature, dealing 2d6 points of ability damage to any one ability score. A Fortitude Save (DC 10+½ HD + Cha bonus) halves this damage. Distortion (Ex): A Non-Planar creature has a 40% miss chance because of the alterations to the space near it. It's simply that difficult to hit. (this translates as a 40% Damage Reduction in the simplified system Ability Scores: +4 Wis, +4 cha
420 10-01-07, 04:40 PM	It's called the Far Realm and creatures associated with it use the Pseudonatural template. -420
Zousha_Omenohu 10-01-07, 05:04 PM	The Far Realm most likely isn't the only place where this thing could come from. Frankly, I was thinking the Astral Plane would be the best fit, since we're going with planetary references here, and I always pictured the Astral Plane to be kind of like space.
PrinceOfTheVoid 10-01-07, 05:13 PM	Sounds kind of like a small-scale Nexus Dragon
Gemstone 10-01-07, 05:14 PM	It's called the Far Realm and creatures associated with it use the Pseudonatural template. -420 This is going to be different than the far realm :) I've never really liked the feeling that the far realm holds, and these creatures are supposed to be those that travels between cosmologies, working their ways through, as a plague. The PC's current goal is to destroy the mother of all spiders, but she will show to be only a small fraction of the beings that exists in between... I've clarified the abilities a bit :)
Fabius Maximus 10-01-07, 05:14 PM	The Far Realm most likely isn't the only place where this thing could come from. Frankly, I was thinking the Astral Plane would be the best fit, since we're going with planetary references here, and I always pictured the Astral Plane to be kind of like space. I agree. The Astral is also the "In-Between-Plane" of Planescape. It exists in all the tiny nooks and crannys of the multiverse.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-01-07, 06:45 PM	Cool idea. However, the power boosts such a templated creature gets don't make that much sense. Why the increase of HD, or the increase of physical stats? I think the Spell Disfunction ability works, but instead of a Dexterity and Con boost, give it a miss chance due its bending of space.
Gemstone 10-01-07, 06:50 PM	Cool idea. However, the power boosts such a templated creature gets don't make that much sense. Why the increase of HD, or the increase of physical stats? I think the Spell Disfunction ability works, but instead of a Dexterity and Con boost, give it a miss chance due its bending of space. Very good idea :) I gave it a HD and hp boost, mostly to make it an epic challenge. Also, the increase of physical stats were also to make sure it survived the trips between cosmologies. I will change some of the things that you suggested though.
setekh 10-03-07, 07:14 AM	You could take some cues from the elder Eidolon (specifically it's "otherworldly geometry") I think that some kind of fear aura might be an idea too (If a dragon is scary then so is something that exists in four Physical dimensions ;) )
Gemstone 10-03-07, 06:55 PM	You could take some cues from the elder Eidolon (specifically it's "otherworldly geometry") I think that some kind of fear aura might be an idea too (If a dragon is scary then so is something that exists in four Physical dimensions ;) ) Ah, not a bad idea at all :) I'll also probably make "Death" different for them. Some creatures, will die. Other's will... become other things, such as instantaneously reincarnate as something else.
Lobsopdoy 10-03-07, 07:42 PM	Ah, not a bad idea at all :) I'll also probably make "Death" different for them. Some creatures, will die. Other's will... become other things, such as instantaneously reincarnate as something else. Ummm...what's the point of fighting something like that if it can't die? Also, I had something that came from between the Planes too. The Erharidu.
Angel Black 10-03-07, 08:13 PM	.... he suggested that it was from "Somewere between the planes of the great wheel. A place that is as the open spaces between planets in the solar system!". .... So... any ideas on what these kind of creatures are? I'm thinking of having a template that does this: Non-Planar Creature HD: Increases by one step, up to d12's. Also gain +3 hp per level Type: Changes to Outsider [Non-Planar] Size: Improve the size category by 2 steps, but the space remains the same (thus it can have 20 ft. reach as a garganteuan creature, but still occupy a medium space) Special Qualities: 2 Energy Resistances to 10 + ½ HD Spell Disfuction (Ex): A creature from In-between simply isn't affected by spells as a normal creature would be. Whenever targeted by a spell, the caster must make a caster level check against a DC of 14+CR of the target. If the check fails, the caster must roll randomly on the "Wild Magic table" from MotP. Devour (Ex): As a Full-Round action, a Non-Planar creature can devour parts of the reality around another creature, dealing 2d6 points of ability damage to any one ability score. A Fortitude Save (DC 10+½ HD + Cha bonus) halves this damage. Distortion (Ex): A Non-Planar creature has a 40% miss chance because of the alterations to the space near it. It's simply that difficult to hit. (this translates as a 40% Damage Reduction in the simplified system Ability Scores: +4 Wis, +4 cha Some creatures can have templates, some others are a new type of life and have his own type-subtypes, kind of aberrations or fey-like creatures. Samples: -This creature can change its shape and once a year go to another planes looking for some material he needs to live.Those materials can be fire,rocks,...alignments. -This race has a bond with the Inner Planes, they don't breath, they don't eat, and have inmunities to some spells and effects.They can bend reality. etc,etc
Gemstone 10-03-07, 09:03 PM	Some creatures can have templates, some others are a new type of life and have his own type-subtypes, kind of aberrations or fey-like creatures. Samples: -This creature can change its shape and once a year go to another planes looking for some material he needs to live.Those materials can be fire,rocks,...alignments. -This race has a bond with the Inner Planes, they don't breath, they don't eat, and have inmunities to some spells and effects.They can bend reality. etc,etc Actually, a good idea... A good name for such a creature? Non-Planar doesn't sound like a creature type... Urkaos maybe?
syrinth 10-03-07, 09:32 PM	Personally in the space between planes in my worlds is an area known as the Void. The Void is nothingness, it is worse than evil because evil is just the opposite of good. When your soul is taken by evil it's because it sees value in it, when the Void takes your soul it does it for no reason other than it could. From those who encounter it, it takes the warmth, breathe and life and leaves neither cold nor death. Just emptiness and nothingness.
locustechpriest 10-03-07, 10:29 PM	Some creatures, will die. Other's will... become other things, such as instantaneously reincarnate as something else. Kind of like the Soulshift ability from MtG? That's kind of interesting. Outsiders tend to do that on their homeplanes, but more slowly, because they are absorbed back into it and then spat out again. These creatues live in a void, so their energy isn't abosorbed at all, either it disperses or reconfigures; right? In the OP you have Spell Disfunction as based upon CR. I would suggest an HD base instead, as you will have modified CR through the process of making this, and it just seems less favorable to me in general.
goldomark 10-04-07, 02:38 AM	Cool ideas. Just a few questions you can ask yourself to help you define your plane and it creature. I would love to have the answer, the idea is good. What those creatures want on the Material plane? How they can get to the material plane? Do they have a dual existence when out of there plane? Like other outsiders. Are the creatures between different state of existance? Continually in evolution? Does the inbetween plane symbolize something or is associated with something. Like The Astral with the mind, the Outer planes with souls or the Far Realm with madness. Ambiguity comes to mind. How is time on the inbetween plane? How is gravity on the inbetween plane? Do conditions change on the plane, depending which planes it is inbetween? Does the plane have an alignment tided to it? Does that alignment shift, depending on the planes it is inbetween? Does anybody rule the inbetween plane? (The In-Betweener :D )
setekh 10-04-07, 06:41 AM	Personally in the space between planes in my worlds is an area known as the Void. The Void is nothingness, it is worse than evil because evil is just the opposite of good. When your soul is taken by evil it's because it sees value in it, when the Void takes your soul it does it for no reason other than it could. From those who encounter it, it takes the warmth, breathe and life and leaves neither cold nor death. Just emptiness and nothingness. <.< "No light, no dark, no up, no down, no life... no time...without end..."
Gemstone 10-04-07, 07:31 AM	Cool ideas. Just a few questions you can ask yourself to help you define your plane and it creature. I would love to have the answer, the idea is good. Hmm... Well, as I haven't thought of it as a plane in the beginning, this differs some from my original idea. But still, it's a cool concept, so I'll work with this :) Feel free to come with ideas and thoughts What those creatures want on the Material plane? most of the se creatures just "stumble" upon the material plane, while some of them with intelligence has different goals. Some seek to destroy it, and incorporate it with the rest of their realm. Other seek to siphon life and such from it... most of those who come there are predators, preying on the things within each plane. How they can get to the material plane? They exist between planes, and most of them can't, unless pulled there. Some though, rip holes in the very fabric of nothingness and enters the materail plane. Do they have a dual existence when out of there plane? Like other outsiders. I'm toying a bit with the idea to let them be so different that they have a sort of tripple existance. That of their body, their souls and their core. This would make raising one a living hell, as well as allow them to have all sort of weirdness going on inside them... Are the creatures between different state of existance? Continually in evolution? Yes, since they come from the inbetween (the Urkaos), they can evolve and change. Does the inbetween plane symbolize something or is associated with something. Like The Astral with the mind, the Outer planes with souls or the Far Realm with madness. Ambiguity comes to mind. Hmm.. no idea here. You? How is time on the inbetween plane? WHat about time moving in ways uncomprehendable by most creatures from the planes? Time moves backwards along your toes, forward in your mind and into itself near your heart? This would make for a very interesting place as time exist into itself... the plane could also be completly timeless. ideas? How is gravity on the inbetween plane? Do conditions change on the plane, depending which planes it is inbetween? Does the plane have an alignment tided to it? Does that alignment shift, depending on the planes it is inbetween? Now that's an idea I like. Nearby planes "bleed into the in between" Does anybody rule the inbetween plane? (The In-Betweener :D ) haha... they're bond to have rulers and more powerful creatures... I already have a couple of ideas that I'll incorporate into this... Magnos, the Urkaos Immortal.
syrinth 10-04-07, 05:39 PM	<.< "No light, no dark, no up, no down, no life... no time...without end..." Basically. :D The void is also the place that attempts to steal the souls of those being resurrected in my campaign. If they succeed the soul is lost forever and beyond even the reach of the deities, which is one reason why resurrection doesn't happen too often ;) What can I say, I'm a horrible person.
locustechpriest 10-04-07, 08:05 PM	Some though, rip holes in the very fabric of nothingness and enters the material plane. So you define nothingness as being substancial then? If not, then ripping something that isn't there, as it seems Setekh is implying, would be mindwarping to comprehend.
Gemstone 10-05-07, 03:53 AM	So you define nothingness as being substancial then? If not, then ripping something that isn't there, as it seems Setekh is implying, would be mindwarping to comprehend. Well, I could say they rip the facbric of reality then ;)
locustechpriest 10-05-07, 04:53 AM	Well, I could say they rip the facbric of reality then ;) Yep, that would be what I was thinking! You got me there.
setekh 10-05-07, 07:05 AM	So you define nothingness as being substancial then? If not, then ripping something that isn't there, as it seems Setekh is implying, would be mindwarping to comprehend. The concept of the void as I use it in my setting is similar to the one in doctor who (Which is where the quote is from) As to how exactly something could exist in a place that doesn't technically exist... Well, my best guess is that they are extra-dimensional (In the sense that they exist in a 0 Dimensional reality, or atleast a reality with no dimensions of time or space) Them getting into our realm is a bit of a mind bender, but I think the question is that what something that is timeless and bodiless would look like? I would personally give them some kind of "Other worldly geometry" (Ala: Elder Eidolon) but on a much bigger scale. Maybe a huge deflection bonus to AC as starters. Edit: Actually, while I'm thinking on it, in said void episode the Daleks use a "Void ship" to hide in the void (To avoid a Temporal war that's destroying... Everything) and up until the point that the ship fully integrates into Reality it is mass-less, and no one is able to look at or touch it, being as it is "Wrong".
Angel Black 10-05-07, 11:02 AM	Some creatures can have templates, some others are a new type of life and have his own type-subtypes, kind of aberrations or fey-like creatures. Samples: -This creature can change its shape and once a year go to another planes looking for some material he needs to live.Those materials can be fire,rocks,...alignments. -This race has a bond with the Inner Planes, they don't breath, they don't eat, and have inmunities to some spells and effects.They can bend reality. etc,etc No names for the creatures because I don't have an idea of their names, but giving one step further, I guess some planar travelers as Marco Polo have given them names and studied their strange features... Lade This creature can change its shape and once a year go to another planes looking for some material he needs to live.By example when the creture visit a plane it can look like a Gosthly Dark Mantle with increased swiftness and larger than other Dark Mantles.When it gets hungry they turn into a ball with an aura of voidness around him that seems to devour anything.Rocks, water,fire, even alignments are the things this creature feeds on and eats a lot of them. Urkaos? This race has a bond with the Inner Planes, they don't breath, they don't eat, and have inmunities to some spells and effects.They can bend reality.(here you can insert that Triple/multiple Existence so they can exist at the same time in different bodies and what one does helps the other, one body is a "thing" in the "inbetween plane", the others can be inner planes travelers that look like the usual races or things in there , the amount of reality bending of each body is defferent, usually the "thing" in the "inbetween plane" have the higher rank). "Wheels" look like a giant wheel with eyes,they live trough fabricating things, those things are not real, but neither ilussions and making them can took many spins.When attacked the creature shoots rays with his eyes.Some of these wheels guard something, or give shelter to some creatures, as if they were little planets. "Shparks" Little beings that go around fast, they feed on energy, and they generate it too. ...
goldomark 10-05-07, 02:40 PM	Well I would say the Inbetween plsne symbolize Ambiguity, Perceptions. So every thing would be suggestive, like at dusk the canine form you see in the distance, wolf or dog?. The environment would depend on the opinion and perception of players. Time for exemple. When players first arrive their, as soon as someone makes a comments about time, like: Is time normal? Make time seem normal. If someone says do we stop aging, make it so. In other words its a morphic plane, but not just matter. Time, gravity, even alignment traits. The result would be funny when players realize this.
setekh 10-05-07, 04:28 PM	Well I would say the Inbetween plsne symbolize Ambiguity, Perceptions. So every thing would be suggestive, like at dusk the canine form you see in the distance, wolf or dog?. The environment would depend on the opinion and perception of players. Time for exemple. When players first arrive their, as soon as someone makes a comments about time, like: Is time normal? Make time seem normal. If someone says do we stop aging, make it so. In other words its a morphic plane, but not just matter. Time, gravity, even alignment traits. The result would be funny when players realize this. "... I could really go for a Turkey sandwich?" I'll stop quoting Sci-Fi now, promise.
locustechpriest 10-05-07, 07:59 PM	How about partial incorporeality? That's a difficult thought to quantify (sure you have blink, but that's somewhat different). Like a creature partially made of matter, except certain parts fade into other planes/dimensions, or are simply immaterial, whether visible or not. The mention of otherworldly geometry reminded me of this bugger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20060321a), as you would expect things to go awry around something that came from Nothing. Plus I think it was mentioned that they eat away at reality in their direct vicinity? Blasphemeous geometries would reflect this phenomenon quite well, I think. EDIT: Might consider an ability like this: Consume Elements and Ethos (Su): As an immediate action, a number of times per round equal to its Wisdom modifier, a creature from the Urkaos can consume any ray that passes into its area, or any burst/emenation/spread wose point of origin is in its area, so long as that spell has an elemental or alignment descriptor. Forget about scorching ray. It could snach that fireball out of the air, preventing its explosion. But if you direct the fireball to explode next to it, it will go off normally. Disintegrate would work normally (assuming it doesn't have a wild magic field or the like), since it has no alignment or elemental descriptor. This fits with the idea of them coming to the Material to feed off of... stuff. You wouldn't of course expect every one of these creatures to be the same, so throw in some aces and some jokers as you see fit. ^_^