Differentiating the Horror [Archive] - Wizards Community

Differentiating the Horror [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sciborg3
03-30-08, 11:05 AM What inspiration do you use when you think of the different fiend races? How do you make your players squirm at descriptions of devils/demons/loths/leths? Is Hell a mindless bureaucracy, filled with death camps? Is the Abyss a savage land of varied despots, each with his own gang of zealots?

How does one differentiate the attitudes of Hell from those of Gehenna? How do you make Carceri feel sufficiently chaotic? Or do you focus on themes related to but not directly references to the Order-Chaos axis?

How do you make Hades scary? It seems the Grey Waste is almost pleasant, a Nirvana of sorts compared to the other planes.
Kain_Darkwind
03-30-08, 06:49 PM What inspiration do you use when you think of the different fiend races? How do you make your players squirm at descriptions of devils/demons/loths/leths? Is Hell a mindless bureaucracy, filled with death camps? Is the Abyss a savage land of varied despots, each with his own gang of zealots?

Well, "my" take on Hell (http://projectdf.phpbbnow.com/viewtopic.php?t=87) has been a free PDF for sometime now.

I find that Hell is friendly. That makes it terrifying. They put on a good face, have good reasons for what they are doing, keep their word and bargains and all and all, present themselves as misunderstood and slandered. Hey, in a free willed cosmos, don't you have the right to be Lawful Evil if you want to? Is there something wrong about strong and efficient government that doesn't allow a few minority loud mouths to ruin the peace and stability for everyone?

The Abyss in contrast, can't be expected to be anything. The different styles of horror and terror are as numerous as the layers and those that rule them. Who knows what will be your ruin there? They might want your soul, they might want your service, they might just want your head for the game of football they are starting up. You might be able to trust them to keep their word, you might not. You might be able to bargain and reason with some and then the next group you run into doesn't give a rat's arse about your 'deal' with that glabrezu. In The Abyss, you need to keep on your toes. It isn't about giving them what they want there. It doesn't guarantee anything. It is about making sure they do what you want. And that's what The Abyss wants. Selfishness. Cooperation through cruelty. If you are weak, the best deal you might get out of a balor is not being squashed like a bug. And you do whatever you need to get that deal. Betray your allies, sell out your superiors, hell, sell out the balor's superiors and allies. Anything to get what you can for you.

How does one differentiate the attitudes of Hell from those of Gehenna? How do you make Carceri feel sufficiently chaotic? Or do you focus on themes related to but not directly references to the Order-Chaos axis?

How do you make Hades scary? It seems the Grey Waste is almost pleasant, a Nirvana of sorts compared to the other planes.

Now, those middle planes, I deal with less often. Carceri I play up more for its prison capabilities than any Law/Chaos mixture. Carceri is a place of imprisoned abominations, elder titans and god-slaying monstrosities. That the demodands have a presence there at all is credit to their power. However, I play them as a very quiet power group on the plane. Carceri to my world is very much an 'epic' adventure site. Not that the planar rulers of Hell and the Abyss aren't epic, but one runs into more epic and more monstrous entities in Carceri than anywhere else in the Lower Planes.

Gehenna I like to think of in terms of Darth Vader's quote. "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." This is the place of devils gone bad. Loths have their Crawling City, but Gehenna is largely No Man's Land. The Final Frontier. Those who like to carry out their vile operations out from under the ever watchful eye of the planar rulers set up shop on Gehenna. It's a place where a blood could make a name for himself....or make a nasty mess for the next guy to clean up. Here, it pays to look out for number one, but there is definitely strength in numbers. The daemons (not to be confused with yugoloths in my games) are the prime planar power in my Gehenna. They are taken chiefly from Green Ronin's ideas on the Exarchs of Sin, and they form the largest fiendish force on the plane.

And Hades....the loths are cold. Hades is too. There is the Blood War battles raged across it, but for the most part Hades has a very apathetic feel to it. Not a lazy or slothful apathy though. I tend to play the Altraloths as the chief powers of the plane, and their investment in disease causes a sort of scientific feel to cover the adventures on Hades. This is a place where one cuts you open just to see you bleed. No enjoyment from it, no reason for it...just to watch what happens. See if you die screaming or cursing like the other subjects. It is malice without a care.
sciborg3
03-31-08, 12:48 AM This is a place where one cuts you open just to see you bleed. No enjoyment from it, no reason for it...just to watch what happens. See if you die screaming or cursing like the other subjects. It is malice without a care.

I really like this reasoning as to why the loths of Hades behave the way they do, and it is useful in differentiating them from their fellows in Gehenna and Carceri.

It reminds me of this movie Strangers coming out whose trailer I can't even get out of my head:

"Why are you doing this to us?"

"Because you were home."
Cranewings
03-31-08, 07:17 PM Check out my post, game # 10 on this blog. It is all about the players being in the Abyss. I don't normally run planescape, but they are in it for the time being.

http://coldnorthdnd.livejournal.com/
sciborg3
04-03-08, 06:24 PM I like the idea of what currency the pre-succubi and pre-incubi used in the town. Interesting.

Continuing the idea, what effects should you endure after leaving a lower plane? After all, if these are the pits of perdition, even visiting should leave some kind of mental effect right? Or perhaps only on green primes and upper planars too used to Heaven's comfort?
Naderion
04-03-08, 06:54 PM I like the idea of what currency the pre-succubi and pre-incubi used in the town. Interesting.
Oh, it's paying on debt. My first thought was about some form of cash.

I have a dirty, dirty mind... :allalone:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sciborg3 03-30-08, 11:05 AM	What inspiration do you use when you think of the different fiend races? How do you make your players squirm at descriptions of devils/demons/loths/leths? Is Hell a mindless bureaucracy, filled with death camps? Is the Abyss a savage land of varied despots, each with his own gang of zealots? How does one differentiate the attitudes of Hell from those of Gehenna? How do you make Carceri feel sufficiently chaotic? Or do you focus on themes related to but not directly references to the Order-Chaos axis? How do you make Hades scary? It seems the Grey Waste is almost pleasant, a Nirvana of sorts compared to the other planes.
Kain_Darkwind 03-30-08, 06:49 PM	What inspiration do you use when you think of the different fiend races? How do you make your players squirm at descriptions of devils/demons/loths/leths? Is Hell a mindless bureaucracy, filled with death camps? Is the Abyss a savage land of varied despots, each with his own gang of zealots? Well, "my" take on Hell (http://projectdf.phpbbnow.com/viewtopic.php?t=87) has been a free PDF for sometime now. I find that Hell is friendly. That makes it terrifying. They put on a good face, have good reasons for what they are doing, keep their word and bargains and all and all, present themselves as misunderstood and slandered. Hey, in a free willed cosmos, don't you have the right to be Lawful Evil if you want to? Is there something wrong about strong and efficient government that doesn't allow a few minority loud mouths to ruin the peace and stability for everyone? The Abyss in contrast, can't be expected to be anything. The different styles of horror and terror are as numerous as the layers and those that rule them. Who knows what will be your ruin there? They might want your soul, they might want your service, they might just want your head for the game of football they are starting up. You might be able to trust them to keep their word, you might not. You might be able to bargain and reason with some and then the next group you run into doesn't give a rat's arse about your 'deal' with that glabrezu. In The Abyss, you need to keep on your toes. It isn't about giving them what they want there. It doesn't guarantee anything. It is about making sure they do what you want. And that's what The Abyss wants. Selfishness. Cooperation through cruelty. If you are weak, the best deal you might get out of a balor is not being squashed like a bug. And you do whatever you need to get that deal. Betray your allies, sell out your superiors, hell, sell out the balor's superiors and allies. Anything to get what you can for you. How does one differentiate the attitudes of Hell from those of Gehenna? How do you make Carceri feel sufficiently chaotic? Or do you focus on themes related to but not directly references to the Order-Chaos axis? How do you make Hades scary? It seems the Grey Waste is almost pleasant, a Nirvana of sorts compared to the other planes. Now, those middle planes, I deal with less often. Carceri I play up more for its prison capabilities than any Law/Chaos mixture. Carceri is a place of imprisoned abominations, elder titans and god-slaying monstrosities. That the demodands have a presence there at all is credit to their power. However, I play them as a very quiet power group on the plane. Carceri to my world is very much an 'epic' adventure site. Not that the planar rulers of Hell and the Abyss aren't epic, but one runs into more epic and more monstrous entities in Carceri than anywhere else in the Lower Planes. Gehenna I like to think of in terms of Darth Vader's quote. "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." This is the place of devils gone bad. Loths have their Crawling City, but Gehenna is largely No Man's Land. The Final Frontier. Those who like to carry out their vile operations out from under the ever watchful eye of the planar rulers set up shop on Gehenna. It's a place where a blood could make a name for himself....or make a nasty mess for the next guy to clean up. Here, it pays to look out for number one, but there is definitely strength in numbers. The daemons (not to be confused with yugoloths in my games) are the prime planar power in my Gehenna. They are taken chiefly from Green Ronin's ideas on the Exarchs of Sin, and they form the largest fiendish force on the plane. And Hades....the loths are cold. Hades is too. There is the Blood War battles raged across it, but for the most part Hades has a very apathetic feel to it. Not a lazy or slothful apathy though. I tend to play the Altraloths as the chief powers of the plane, and their investment in disease causes a sort of scientific feel to cover the adventures on Hades. This is a place where one cuts you open just to see you bleed. No enjoyment from it, no reason for it...just to watch what happens. See if you die screaming or cursing like the other subjects. It is malice without a care.
sciborg3 03-31-08, 12:48 AM	This is a place where one cuts you open just to see you bleed. No enjoyment from it, no reason for it...just to watch what happens. See if you die screaming or cursing like the other subjects. It is malice without a care. I really like this reasoning as to why the loths of Hades behave the way they do, and it is useful in differentiating them from their fellows in Gehenna and Carceri. It reminds me of this movie Strangers coming out whose trailer I can't even get out of my head: "Why are you doing this to us?" "Because you were home."
Cranewings 03-31-08, 07:17 PM	Check out my post, game # 10 on this blog. It is all about the players being in the Abyss. I don't normally run planescape, but they are in it for the time being. http://coldnorthdnd.livejournal.com/
sciborg3 04-03-08, 06:24 PM	I like the idea of what currency the pre-succubi and pre-incubi used in the town. Interesting. Continuing the idea, what effects should you endure after leaving a lower plane? After all, if these are the pits of perdition, even visiting should leave some kind of mental effect right? Or perhaps only on green primes and upper planars too used to Heaven's comfort?
Naderion 04-03-08, 06:54 PM	I like the idea of what currency the pre-succubi and pre-incubi used in the town. Interesting. Oh, it's paying on debt. My first thought was about some form of cash. I have a dirty, dirty mind... :allalone: