Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pitiless_Interfector 06-07-07, 02:44 PM	The Epic Level Handbook features an adventure seed wherein a lowly commoner is infused with the power of a greater deity. I believe that there are serious problems with this. A 1st-level commoner who simply gains 20 divine ranks will not be able to effectively use the best salient divine abilities, due to his low ability scores and lack of class features. Here is Bruce, prior to his short-lived ascension: Human Commoner 1 (10/11/10/11/10/11) Craft (carpentry) 4, Handle Animal 4, Profession (journalist) 4 Skill Focus (Profession [journalist]), Skill Focus (Craft [carpentry]), Simple Weapon Proficiency (light crossbow) Here is what Bruce could get for DvR 20: Portfolio: News, daily life Domains: Animal, Artifice, Craft, Community, Family, Healing, Plant, Renewal Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Form, Alter Size, Command Plants, Divine Inspiration, Extra Domain (Animal), Extra Domain (Artifice), Extra Domain (Family), Extra Domain (Healing), Extra Domain (Renewal), Extra Energy Immunity (fire), Extra Energy Immunity (sonic), Gift of Life, Grow Creature (humans), Increased Energy Resistance (sonic), Know Death, Know Secrets, Lay Curse, Lay Quest, Life and Death, Mass Life and Death, Mind of the Beast, Power of Nature, Power of Truth, Shapechange, True Shapechange As you can see, I had to pick a few thematically incompatible abilities (such as immunity to sonic) to fill out all 25 salient divine ability slots. And he won't be spawning new creatures out of thin air, or leveling swathes of the countryside, or altering reality with a thought (at least, not in the manner of a wish spell), or any thing else fantastically godlike. They're cool abilities, but you won't get the kind of powers you'd expect from a greater deity.
Kain Darkwind 06-07-07, 03:01 PM	The Epic Level Handbook features an adventure seed wherein a lowly commoner is infused with the power of a greater deity. I believe that there are serious problems with this. A 1st-level commoner who simply gains 20 divine ranks will not be able to effectively use the best salient divine abilities, due to his low ability scores and lack of class features. Here is Bob, prior to his short-lived ascension: Human Commoner 1 (10/11/10/11/10/11) Craft (carpentry) 4, Handle Animal 4, Profession (farmer) 4 Skill Focus (Profession [farmer]), Skill Focus (Craft [carpentry]), Simple Weapon Proficiency (heavy sickle) Here is what Bob could get for DvR 20: Portfolio: Farming, daily life Domains: Animal, Artifice, Craft, Community, Family, Healing, Plant, Renewal Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Form, Alter Size, Command Plants, Divine Inspiration, Extra Domain (Animal), Extra Domain (Artifice), Extra Domain (Family), Extra Domain (Healing), Extra Domain (Renewal), Extra Energy Immunity (fire), Extra Energy Immunity (sonic), Gift of Life, Grow Creature (humans), Increased Energy Resistance (sonic), Know Death, Know Secrets, Lay Curse, Lay Quest, Life and Death, Mass Life and Death, Mind of the Beast, Power of Nature, Power of Truth, Shapechange, True Shapechange As you can see, I had to pick a few thematically incompatible abilities (such as immunity to sonic) to fill out all 25 salient divine ability slots. And he won't be spawning new creatures out of thin air, or leveling swathes of the countryside, or altering reality with a thought (at least, not in the manner of a wish spell), or any thing else fantastically godlike. They're cool abilities, but you won't get the kind of powers you'd expect from a greater deity. 1. Bob's ability scores could well have risen with his infusion of divine power. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to 'add 20' or 25 to all of his scores. Probably, if I was going to do it, I would give him boosts to Strength, Con and Charisma, but keep his humble Int and Wis the same. 2. A greater deity begins at DvR 16. You only had to fill out 21 SDA slots. 3. He can kill any number of people in a 20 mile radius with a thought, no save. You don't think that is 'the kind of powers you'd expect from a greater deity?'
RealSorceror 06-07-07, 03:02 PM	Everything within 1000 miles and 3 plains over is gonna wanna kill Bob for those divine ranks. Yes sir, he is gonna have some nasty uber-liches and aboleth mindtakers after his commoner butt. :eek: Not to mention the hordes upon hordes of thieves, hedge-wizards, and wannabe badguys looking for a quick rise to power. I say Bob dies in, mey, 6 hours and 12 minutes. And thats being generous. He'd probably just explode from the sudden vast power gain. Or go crazy.
Bluehero 06-07-07, 06:04 PM	Bob gets a lot more powerful if you give him the divine array immediately upon ascenscion (36,28,26,24,24,24). Then he can take alter reality and divine creation poof up all the stat boosting items he wants and get even more powerful. Even if that's not the case he won't stay a commoner at level one for very long. The way I play it gods are automatically level 40 and cannot gain experience, although they gain ten levels upon reaching greater godhood. If this was not the case, then I'm sure that mass life and death could level him up in some decent classes pretty fast. In any case, it sounds like an interesting adventure hook, or perhaps a solo campaign, although I doubt it would last long, although unless he was really stupid or angred other deities I could see him lasting much longer than 6 hours and 12 minutes, quite possibly living you know, forever, as is customary for most gods that don't fight other gods and or cosmic entities.
RealSorceror 06-08-07, 09:46 AM	Bob gets a lot more powerful if you give him the divine array immediately upon ascenscion (36,28,26,24,24,24). Then he can take alter reality and divine creation poof up all the stat boosting items he wants and get even more powerful. Even if that's not the case he won't stay a commoner at level one for very long. The way I play it gods are automatically level 40 and cannot gain experience, although they gain ten levels upon reaching greater godhood. If this was not the case, then I'm sure that mass life and death could level him up in some decent classes pretty fast. In any case, it sounds like an interesting adventure hook, or perhaps a solo campaign, although I doubt it would last long, although unless he was really stupid or angred other deities I could see him lasting much longer than 6 hours and 12 minutes, quite possibly living you know, forever, as is customary for most gods that don't fight other gods and or cosmic entities. 1). Would a level 1 commoner who spontaneously gains massive divine power actually know how to use any of his new abiliteis? 2). Wouldn't Hextor, Lolth, Tiamat, and the crew immediatly try to gank his sorry commoner butt? Heck, Asmodeus and Demogorgan would try and gank Bob. 3). Under the normal rules, Bob does not gain 40 levels. Thats a house rule. The best Bob can hope for is maybe 20 levels of Outsider, and that still won't save him from Gruumsh and Erythnul. 4). Unless he gains sudden and complete knowledge of his abilities, Bob goes splat without assistance from another divine being. 5). I gave him 6 hours to allow for other beings to realize what has happened and react accordingly. The 12 minutes is for the Divine Superbowl, in which Bob is the football.
zzakk2to2 06-08-07, 10:23 AM	I think we should rename him Bruce. also i bet you could make a table of ability and make it so when something stressfull hapens roll for a random ability activating.
RealSorceror 06-08-07, 10:44 AM	I think we should rename him Bruce. also i bet you could make a table of ability and make it so when something stressfull hapens roll for a random ability activating. That could definitely be interesting.
zzakk2to2 06-08-07, 10:48 AM	yes... yes it would bruce"oh no that goblins going to attack" foom everything within a mile is hot pink
RealSorceror 06-08-07, 10:51 AM	yes... yes it would bruce"oh no that goblins going to attack" foom everything within a mile is hot pink I hope Commanos, Lord of all things Mundane, didn't just blow up his village. :eek: That could produce some angst.....
zzakk2to2 06-08-07, 11:02 AM	we should make a "common stuff" domain
RealSorceror 06-08-07, 11:12 AM	we should make a "common stuff" domain Profesion (Dirt Farmer) just became class skills.
sensestaker 06-09-07, 01:38 AM	5). I gave him 6 hours to allow for other beings to realize what has happened and react accordingly. The 12 minutes is for the Divine Superbowl, in which Bob is the football. http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif That's the best line I've ever seen on these forums! Mind if I sig it?
Elana 06-09-07, 02:40 AM	Why would he only last 6 hours 12 minutes. Nobody would gain anything by killing him. (Unless you are in one of those weird worlds where divine rank can be stolen) Plus, immortality really helps with avoiding to get killed. Non gods will have trouble overcoming his damage reduction of 30/epic. (Most spells don't work as well with someone who always makes his saving throw and has a SR of 48 (For DvR 16)) He is far more likely to meet very friendly gods who will try to win him over to there causes. (Most likely the first to be nice to him a lesser gods of trickery)
zzakk2to2 06-09-07, 08:49 AM	I think if he worshiped any god that god would help him.
Zousha_Omenohu 06-10-07, 12:11 AM	What if that god is offended by this newly ascended former worshiper who may or may not begin to atract converts? Incidentally, I kind of imagine that such a being (the commoner) simply might try to go on as he always has, even ignoring what he can do, much like Ronson.
zzakk2to2 06-11-07, 09:24 AM	he might not even know until something dangerous happens to him or he gets older then everyone around him yet still looks the same.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 09:35 AM	http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif That's the best line I've ever seen on these forums! Mind if I sig it? Go fot it. :D
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 09:47 AM	Why would he only last 6 hours 12 minutes. I was being generous. Nobody would gain anything by killing him. (Unless you are in one of those weird worlds where divine rank can be stolen) Plus, immortality really helps with avoiding to get killed. I was under the impression that being able to steal divinity by killing a god was the norm, or at least a very common rule. Out of curiousity, how do beings gain divinity in your worlds? And if divinty is static, where did the original gods come from? Non gods will have trouble overcoming his damage reduction of 30/epic. (Most spells don't work as well with someone who always makes his saving throw and has a SR of 48 (For DvR 16)) But any gods and epic beings will have no problem, and in a world where divinity can be stolen, Bruce/Bob is in big doodoo. He is far more likely to meet very friendly gods who will try to win him over to there causes. (Most likely the first to be nice to him a lesser gods of trickery) I imagine that everyone will try and make a move on him as soon as possible.
zzakk2to2 06-11-07, 11:59 AM	the more followers a god has the more power the god has is the accepted way. also even if he does not know how to use the power he is still DR20 so preaty much unkillable to anything but another DR20 or higher.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 12:10 PM	the more followers a god has the more power the god has is the accepted way. True, but in this case the commoner gained the rank by some other means, possibly just spontaneously. also even if he does not know how to use the power he is still DR20 so preaty much unkillable to anything but another DR20 or higher. An ignorant commoner god could indeed fall prey to something as powerful as a Demi-Lich. And just think about Asmodeous and Demogorgan (not their avatars, but the full-flavor versions). Even a Lesser Deity or Demi-god could get the jump on Bruce if he where trully ignorant. No offense, but I think you guys are really underestimating the truly nasty things that are out there, just frothing at the mouth for the chance to gain greater deity status. Yes, Bruce is now immune to a great array of things, but he still may only have 1 HD. Even with a divine Con score, thats only 15-20 hp.
Elana 06-11-07, 12:15 PM	... I was under the impression that being able to steal divinity by killing a god was the norm, or at least a very common rule. Out of curiousity, how do beings gain divinity in your worlds? And if divinty is static, where did the original gods come from?.... The current rules try to cover all settings and pantheons. The greek pantheon and the Asgards seemingly were born as gods. (Well, actually the Asgardian Pantheon seems to be able to grand divine power to people, and so gain new members) The most common way to get a divine rank seems to be that you get it from either a greater deity or an over deity. (Either as a gift or as an inheritance) And if you want to know were over deities got their power from, so they could give it to other deities, I think Gary Gygax is to blame :)
Mirtek 06-11-07, 12:53 PM	Everything within 1000 miles and 3 plains over is gonna wanna kill Bob for those divine ranks. Yes sir, he is gonna have some nasty uber-liches and aboleth mindtakers after his commoner butt. :eek: Not to mention the hordes upon hordes of thieves, hedge-wizards, and wannabe badguys looking for a quick rise to power. I say Bob dies in, mey, 6 hours and 12 minutes. And thats being generous. He'd probably just explode from the sudden vast power gain. Or go crazy. Actually all these uber-liches, aboleth, thieves, hedge-wizards, and wannabe badguys will drop dead the moment they merely think of killing Bob. No save, no SR, no protection, just death
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 01:55 PM	Actually all these uber-liches, aboleth, thieves, hedge-wizards, and wannabe badguys will drop dead the moment they merely think of killing Bob. No save, no SR, no protection, just death Who says Bob has Divine Splendor? :bored: I find it pretty arbitrary that all hypothytical deities just happen to have Divine Splendor. Metagaming at it's finest.
zzakk2to2 06-11-07, 02:03 PM	Rejuvenation Prerequisites Divine rank 11, Divine Fast Healing salient divine ability. Benefit When the deity suffers an attack that should destroy it, it simply disperses and reassembles later. Roll 10d10 to determine the number of days before the deity returns. Notes If the deity is killed in its own realm, subtract the deity’s divine rank from the number of days it takes to return. If the deity’s realm is on a divinely morphic Outer Plane, and the deity is killed there, subtract twice the deity’s divine rank from the number of days it takes to return. The return always takes at least one day. This ability is ineffective if the deity is killed by another deity of equal or higher rank. problem solved.
Mirtek 06-11-07, 02:05 PM	Who says Bob has Divine Splendor? :bored: I find it pretty arbitrary that all hypothytical deities just happen to have Divine Splendor. Metagaming at it's finest. You did read his stats? [...]Mass Life and Death[...] And Divine Splendor could not do it anyway, it's a short range power.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 02:14 PM	You did read his stats? And Divine Splendor could not do it anyway, it's a short range power. First, Mass Life and Death is a death effect. Lots of epic things are immune to death effects. Second, does Bob even know how to use his power? I think that depends entirely on the circumstances and even on Bob's personality.
zzakk2to2 06-11-07, 02:31 PM	Rejuvenation Prerequisites Divine rank 11, Divine Fast Healing salient divine ability. Benefit When the deity suffers an attack that should destroy it, it simply disperses and reassembles later. Roll 10d10 to determine the number of days before the deity returns. Notes If the deity is killed in its own realm, subtract the deity’s divine rank from the number of days it takes to return. If the deity’s realm is on a divinely morphic Outer Plane, and the deity is killed there, subtract twice the deity’s divine rank from the number of days it takes to return. The return always takes at least one day. This ability is ineffective if the deity is killed by another deity of equal or higher rank. problem solved. if you would care to look at that and i will restate only a DR20 or higher could kill him.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 02:44 PM	if you would care to look at that and i will restate only a DR20 or higher could kill him. Permanently. Lots of things can kill him in the short-term.
zzakk2to2 06-11-07, 02:54 PM	When the deity suffers an attack that should destroy it, it simply disperses and reassembles later. it does not die! does a vampire die if it turns to smoke and escapes?
Mirtek 06-11-07, 03:04 PM	First, Mass Life and Death is a death effect. No it's not. This discussion already happend a lot, so agree to disagree and not start it all over again.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 03:06 PM	When the deity suffers an attack that should destroy it, it simply disperses and reassembles later. it does not die! does a vampire die if it turns to smoke and escapes? You misunderstood me. Yes, he doesn't die, but he is out of action for a little while. Thats why I said lots of things can kill him in the short-term.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 03:09 PM	No it's not. This discussion already happend a lot, so agree to disagree and not start it all over again. Alrighty. That still doesn't get around the fact that spontaneous and unexpected divine power does not suggest knowledge of how to use that power.
zzakk2to2 06-11-07, 03:09 PM	You misunderstood me. Yes, he doesn't die, but he is out of action for a little while. Thats why I said lots of things can kill him in the short-term. this clearly says "kill him" and nothing below DR20 can kill him short term or long term. he is indisposed. devine splendor is atomatic if in natural form so there is no needing to learn how to use it.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 03:14 PM	this clearly says "kill him" and nothing below DR20 can kill him short term or long term. he is indisposed. Great. We aren't even in disagreement over that. You know what I meant to say, and if you wanna be sore about it, be my guest.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 03:16 PM	this clearly says "kill him" and nothing below DR20 can kill him short term or long term. he is indisposed. devine splendor is atomatic if in natural form so there is no needing to learn how to use it. And we've already figured out that he doesn't even have Divine Splendor. Non-issue.
zzakk2to2 06-11-07, 04:19 PM	Alrighty. That still doesn't get around the fact that spontaneous and unexpected divine power does not suggest knowledge of how to use that power. i was not saying he had just that he would not need to know "how to use that power. as long as he did not transform he would just have it.
RealSorceror 06-11-07, 05:00 PM	i was not saying he had just that he would not need to know "how to use that power. as long as he did not transform he would just have it. Say what? :confused:
zzakk2to2 06-12-07, 10:25 AM	Divine Splendor Prerequisites Divine rank 16, Cha 26. Benefit Any mortal who approaches within 10 feet per divine rank of the deity in its natural form dies immediately, with no saving throw. Suggested Portfolio Elements Supreme. as long as the god is in its natural form, thus not transformed. it is not an activated ability just an automatic ability.
Elana 06-12-07, 12:40 PM	Hm, after thinking about it, I dare to say that he will have a truly long live. Unless you are a god of gods you have no way to find out about his sudden divine ascension before he does. And by he time he finds out that he is a god he will have used at least one of his new ability. Once he uses his power people around him will learn of his god status, so the day after maybe a hundred level 1 characters know. By the time the first epic character learns about it he will have gained at least 10 levels as cleric and will have full knowledge of his powers. (Unless you have a strange world with lots of epic characters that just hang around sharing rumors with the peasants) And for those who have a world where killing a deity gets you his divine status, try running a combat. Even if he isn't aware of his powers, his instinct should activate his mass life and death powers to deal with his attackers, once he is aware of the danger. (So in combat the first time it's his turn. So you better finish combat in the first round of combat)
DX2052 06-14-07, 06:40 PM	Am I the only one whos considered that "Frank"'s low Hit die make him able eligable for zombie/skeletonation?
Kain Darkwind 06-14-07, 11:32 PM	Am I the only one whos considered that "Frank"'s low Hit die make him able eligable for zombie/skeletonation? All humans have low racial HD and are eligible for zombie/skeletonation. It doesn't matter if they are 100th level or 10th. Animate dead only cares about your racial HD.
DX2052 06-14-07, 11:39 PM	All humans have low racial HD and are eligible for zombie/skeletonation. It doesn't matter if they are 100th level or 10th. Animate dead only cares about your racial HD. Not the point, the point is that you have a have a DEITY in skeleton/zombie form if you slay him, hey if you wanted to you could also use "Soul Bind" on him if you had any ideas for a Deitys soul.
Kain Darkwind 06-15-07, 12:00 AM	Not the point, the point is that you have a have a DEITY in skeleton/zombie form if you slay him, hey if you wanted to you could also use "Soul Bind" on him if you had any ideas for a Deitys soul. By the same token you could animate Mystra, St. Cuthbert, etc. If you slew them.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-15-07, 12:10 AM	And for those who have a world where killing a deity gets you his divine status, try running a combat. we have, is hard, very very hard, especially when the god has awesome power, for example the nearly inescapable mass divine blast. with the right build it is still possible to live for a number of rounds, but it makes little sense to even consider deity combat vs even epic. high epic can do it, but the combat is almost stupid. i do it on a nearly weakly basis, and it ends the same way every weak, but i can still last 21 rounds..thank you knight class ability.
Elana 06-15-07, 01:10 PM	You can last to the start of the combat? You have a nice DM.
RealSorceror 06-15-07, 02:21 PM	You can last to the start of the combat? You have a nice DM. That, and he is fighting a Good deity who wants a fair fight. Its more of a sparring match, really.
Nat_20 06-16-07, 02:05 PM	Who's to say that once gaining the seemingly out of NOWHERE DvR of 20, the "BOB" character dosnt gain understanding on all that he knows, i can think of many a show where a character gains a new power and knows how to wield it perfectly, maybe it comes natural, like being a Planeswalker in MTG, they understand it all once ascending, Godhood should be no different....
RealSorceror 06-16-07, 02:24 PM	Who's to say that once gaining the seemingly out of NOWHERE DvR of 20, the "BOB" character dosnt gain understanding on all that he knows, i can think of many a show where a character gains a new power and knows how to wield it perfectly, maybe it comes natural, like being a Planeswalker in MTG, they understand it all once ascending, Godhood should be no different.... All well and good, but the fact stands that unless Bob gained his powers from a greater deity who is blocking the divine senses of other dieties, the majority of the pantheon would have known about the ascension weeks in advance. Gruumsh or Lolth, for example, would know about Bob months before Bob ascended and would have reacted accordingly, either by killing bob as a mortal, or by attacking him the moment he ascends in hopes of stealing his power. Being a Greater Deity means nothing when you have only 1 Commoner HD. Anything that gets past his defenses would certianly kill him
Elana 06-17-07, 12:00 PM	Ah, but as killing a god only hands you out power in very rare circumstances, there is no reason another god would attack him. They are much more likely to befriend him, to use him as a pawn. (unexperienced persons with great power are usually used in that way) And in the long run he ill probably used in some ways that would endanger his life. (if killing a god would grant power to a god, you wouldn't have any weak gods at all. And if you go so far as that the portfolio goes to the new god, then you would end with stuff like a lawful good god of slaughter and are chaotic evil god of healing(or other rubbish like that))
Pitiless_Interfector 06-17-07, 03:27 PM	Changed name from Bob to Bruce (Heee....)
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-18-07, 01:11 AM	You can last to the start of the combat? You have a nice DM. >.> yeah i did kinda forget to mention that he likes to toy with me in the arena, letting me go first and all that nonsense. basically he lets me activate so i can use the knights ability, but in the end, it really takes a metric crap ton of lucky near max damage rolls that all pass the miss chance ((which has never happened by the way.)) or a very very very very very lucky three nat 20s that happens to bypass the miss chance, which has almost almost almost happened 20....20....19 x.x not that it would have mattered, he would have come back anyway, seeing as i am not even a deity, but the fame from the act would have put me near the top of the list for big cahuna.
Freefall 06-19-07, 02:48 AM	Gruumsh or Lolth, for example, would know about Bob months before Bob ascended and would have reacted accordingly, either by killing bob as a mortal, or by attacking him the moment he ascends in hopes of stealing his power. Why would they know about him months in advance? I was under the impression that a god's ability to sense things coming was tied directly to their portfolios, so they shouldn't know about him becoming a god unless he was an orc or a drow, and then only one of them could know about him. Also, I'm not getting why they would know all of his stats so well. Even granting that they do have the ability to sense a being somewhere in the universe spontaneously becoming a Rank 20 greater deity, that doesn't mean that they would also know that he only has 1 hit die, or that he doesn't have high enough ability scores or stats to qualify for things like Alter Reality, Divine Rejuvenation, Annihilating Strike, or whatever. The whole situation just seems extremely contrived to me. On top of that, if Gruumsh or Lolth know about him in advance, then I would think Corellon Larethian and Moradin would know about him even sooner, and as they are "good" deities, they would probably try to protect him from evil, and they have more than enough power to do so. In fact, if all these powerful beings gained knowledge of him instantly, like you are suggesting, then none of them are likely to actually kill him, because it would probably just lead to an enormous cosmic free-for-all. Heck, even if we assume that only the ones that are evil and willing to kill him on the spot are the ones that find out about him instantly (which sounded like what you were proposing), they would still all end up running into each other and fighting over him. And of course, this would mean leaving their realms, which is something that the good gods and their enemies would notice, and take advantage of. In the case of beings like Demogorgon and Asmodeus, I doubt they would sacrifice their planar realms for the odd-ball chance that they could succeed in killing a DivR 20 entity, before anything else, and that all the ranks would actually transfer to them. Oh, and as for knowing about his own powers, given how portfolio senses and knowledge works for gods, I would say that it provides him with a fair bit of knowledge about himself. He will lack actual experience (and intelligence, for that matter), but he should be aware of the basic powers and abilities he has.
RealSorceror 06-19-07, 09:39 AM	*sigh* Very well, you guys can have your 1 HD Greater God. If he exists in your game, you can do whatever you like. The rules *technically* allow it by not specifically stating it can't happen.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-19-07, 12:26 PM	Why would they know about him months in advance? I was under the impression that a god's ability to sense things coming was tied directly to their portfolios, so they shouldn't know about him becoming a god unless he was an orc or a drow, and then only one of them could know about him. You are right, but as a nondescript commoner deity, he is a mortal threat to every deity's portfolio. Every deity will know about him ascending weeks in advance. I'm not going to speak about every other campaign setting, since ours is so different. In our setting, my character is the defender of the world. My job in the pantheon is to stop such threats to divinity from taking shape. We have had very unbalanced pantheons in the past, and the world has suffered for it. After the battle of Ragnarok, there were few (but significantly powerful) good deities, and hundreds of evil deities (of varying strength and powers). It is my charge to protect the world from attacks from foreign deities and stop deital upstarts (only the pantheon chooses who ascends). If Bob happened to be evil, my character would kill him without hesitation. If he was good, I would still be forced to kill him for the good of all- even impressionable good fledgling deities can rip apart the universe. I would then make certain that Bob's soul found its way into my demiplane, and I would start training him. When he reached the appropriate strength (Character level 60) I would give Bob the opportunity to enter our deital challenge, after consulting with our pantheon. If given the green light, Bob would either earn his divinity or become the greater deity commoner that almost happened. :)
Cirek2 06-20-07, 03:31 AM	What about all the bonuses he is going to get to his to hit rolls, saves, (iniative?), movement, armor class, etc. Atleast he should immediately think that something strange has happened... suddenly the weather does not feel bad at all if its winter or a very hot summer (resistance bonuses), he succeeds in most skill checks automaticly (allways rolls 20), he heals wounds should he get them, suddenly he can move atleast twice as fast as before (added movement speed), etc. (cant remember all the bonuses) there are losts of divine bonuses that should be active without him activating them so I dont think he would live very long before coming to some kind of conclusion that he might have a divine spark in him...
RealSorceror 06-20-07, 08:52 AM	Just to ease my mind, how exactly did this hypothetical commoner get his divine rank? I think this will solve a lot of the problems I have with this.
Elana 06-20-07, 01:19 PM	Well, he had lunch with the overdeity of his world, and the overdeity really liked him :)
Kain Darkwind 06-21-07, 02:54 PM	Just to ease my mind, how exactly did this hypothetical commoner get his divine rank? I think this will solve a lot of the problems I have with this. I'm not certain of that. You and your 'crew' seem to have large misunderstandings of the divine rules that will cause you to keep constructing false dilemmas over the matter. Misunderstandings about the portfolio sense, the difference between extraordinary, supernatural and divine, etc. While I'm sure they work well in your game, they amount to house rules and aren't really the best foundation from which to carry out an online debate on the topic.
RealSorceror 06-21-07, 02:57 PM	No, seriously, where did he get the Divine Rank?
Kain Darkwind 06-21-07, 04:55 PM	No, seriously, where did he get the Divine Rank? DM determined. The only criteria the ELH gives is 'a commoner is infused with the power of a greater deity' Perhaps he killed a city-sized god with his torch and pitchfork, then stole the DvR.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-21-07, 10:21 PM	im probably the last one that should say anything, seeing as how im new to deital anything, but dont you have to be a particular base level before ataining any amount of divine anything? i could be mistaken, and i probably am, but dosent someone explode when they are infused with even a smige of divine before they are technically ready? granted, i honestly have no problem with Bob, who knows he might even be a cool deity, i just have a problem with the mechanics ((which im not even sure i understand.)) ^_^ Bob could always just take 20 levels of commoner, an NPC class that is underused. and that might smooth over a few egos at the table, non?
HalfMunchkin 06-21-07, 11:44 PM	Doesen't a deity add his Divine Rank to his ability scores? If so, wouldn't Bob's (Bruce's) ability scores be 30/31/30/31/30/31?
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-22-07, 01:29 AM	im probably the last one that should say anything, seeing as how im new to deital anything, but dont you have to be a particular base level before ataining any amount of divine anything? i could be mistaken, and i probably am, but dosent someone explode when they are infused with even a smige of divine before they are technically ready? Nope, it was a joke we made during one of our campaigns- its what we said would happen if this "Bob" scenario took place.:P Deities and Demigods says, "Player characters of lower than 15th level rarely achieve ascension. They simply haven't done enough to attract the gods' attention yet. Any character of 20th level or higher may be a candidate for ascension if your cosmology allows it. (pg218)" Bob technically isn't a player character, so he could exist- it isn't very likely, but it is possible. I agree with RealSorceror that he would probably die quickly, unless the existing pantheon helped him survive.^_^ Bob could always just take 20 levels of commoner, an NPC class that is underused. and that might smooth over a few egos at the table, non? Now, that would be cool. I think that's my real beef with this idea-that Bob is so low level. I think I would be more understanding if he was a 60th level commoner. You'd have to respect someone so exceptionally common. :)
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-22-07, 01:35 AM	ah, well i suppose it all makes sense now, i never caught on to the joke, lol. but yeah, i would easily accept like 20-60th level bob the commoner, that would make him incredibly awesome (not really) but there would at least be a good reason for his assencion now.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-22-07, 01:36 AM	Doesen't a deity add his Divine Rank to his ability scores? If so, wouldn't Bob's (Bruce's) ability scores be 30/31/30/31/30/31? Yup, depending on how his stats are generated, he will have awesome ability scores simply for existing. We use the Divine Array in our group (35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24). The deity also gains an increase to one of his scores for each Divine Rank he has (you chose where the points go). Bob would have a +20 to his abilities- he could potentially start out with an ability score in the 50's.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-22-07, 01:40 AM	id like to start off a game with a ability score in the 50s, though i suppose the monsters would kill me good, considering my HP would suck horribly, granted if you build him right he might be able to tank it out pretty good, but hes still got like what 1 hd. plus your a commoner, there isent much in the game that sucks more than that.
RealSorceror 06-22-07, 12:32 PM	DM determined. The only criteria the ELH gives is 'a commoner is infused with the power of a greater deity' Whatever. Well, I'm through here. Seeya around. Perhaps he killed a city-sized god with his torch and pitchfork, then stole the DvR. As long as thats a +12 Mecha Bane Pitchfork of Construct Annihilation.....
RealSorceror 06-22-07, 12:34 PM	id like to start off a game with a ability score in the 50s, though i suppose the monsters would kill me good, considering my HP would suck horribly, granted if you build him right he might be able to tank it out pretty good, but hes still got like what 1 hd. plus your a commoner, there isent much in the game that sucks more than that. You could be a commoner with no legs.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-22-07, 03:06 PM	As long as thats a +12 Mecha Bane Pitchfork of Construct Annihilation..... lol, gona need to get one of those for the rabbit...or maybe junior