Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Friendlyfish 05-08-07, 05:56 PM	Do people think that these creatures are Divine, and therefore can cast spells? I was thinking of playing a cleric of Bolothomogg or Piscaethces. On the other hand, it's not explicit that these are entities of divine status. Such a cleric would be a great thaumaturgist, wouldn't you think, esp. with swapping the ability to spontaneously inflict/cure with spontaneous domain: summoning? What do people think? As a second question, what do people think of clerics attaining divine ascension? As a cleric, you're supposed to serve your God above all else; how does this jive with wanting becoming a God yourself? What does your previous God think? Would such a character realistically desire divine ascension in the first place?
Upper_Krust 05-08-07, 06:47 PM	Hi FriendlyFish! :) As a second question, what do people think of clerics attaining divine ascension? As a cleric, you're supposed to serve your God above all else; how does this jive with wanting becoming a God yourself? What does your previous God think? Would such a character realistically desire divine ascension in the first place? I would suggest that gaining immortality would be harder for a divine spellcaster or lay clergy. In the Immortals Handbook I suggest that there is a 10/90 split between a cleric and deity for the purpose of gaining worship points. For lay clergy its a 50/50 split. Most immortals would probably see the benefit of having the cleric gain minor divinity (Disciple, Prophet, Hero-deity/Saint) but not more than that. However, depending on the god's alignment they might help (good) or hinder (evil) a cleric who got to big for their boots.
Friendlyfish 05-08-07, 07:13 PM	That's sort of how I thought, as well. Certainly, a cleric is supposed to always revere its deity. Going for divine apotheosis seems something that divine spellcasters should actively avoid. Whereas it seems as if it's perfect for arcane spellcasters, naturally, in addition to overlords/warlords/emperors (fighter types?). Alliances with Gods, as opposed to service to Gods, seems like a more feasible route to Ascension. Sort of like induction into the club.
ripvanwormer 05-08-07, 07:41 PM	Do people think that these creatures are Divine, and therefore can cast spells? I was thinking of playing a cleric of Bolothomogg or Piscaethces. On the other hand, it's not explicit that these are entities of divine status. They actually seem to draw a clear contrast between the Elder Evils and the gods; aboleths venerate the former but ordinarily feel only disdain for the latter. I think the Elders would make more sense as patrons of alienists than clerics. I do think they're equivalents to gods in power, however, and technically a cleric doesn't even need a god to gain spells; you can be a cleric of a philosophy or force of nature. So yeah, there could be clerics of Bolothomogg. Probably Bolothomogg wouldn't actually be granting the spells, though; Bolothomogg would be unlikely even to notice the cleric existed.
Friendlyfish 05-08-07, 08:20 PM	I think the Elders would make more sense as patrons of alienists than clerics. The Alienist PrC can be easily taken by a cleric as well as an arcane caster. It's just atrociously suboptimal. (Loss of 2 points of Wisdom, loss of strong fort saves and d4 HD). Perhaps a revised Alienist-for-Clerics prestige class..."Alien Cultist(?)" Of course, slavishly devoting your existence to a creature that would like to consume reality like a tasty meal and/or thinks you're the muck beneath its primordial flipper probably isn't a character that would obtain a lot of DM approval. Arcane alienist, at least, can retain a less blasphemous mindset, a "scientific" mode, if you will, that might allow for a more protagonistic mien.
WotC_Logan 05-08-07, 08:43 PM	Do people think that these creatures are Divine, and therefore can cast spells? I was thinking of playing a cleric of Bolothomogg or Piscaethces. On the other hand, it's not explicit that these are entities of divine status. We have a section of text in Elder Evils (not about the exact same group, but still pertinent) that said no. Even if they aren't gods, you can still devote yourself to an ideal and gain the cleric benefits (as has been mentioned).
Friendlyfish 05-08-07, 08:50 PM	Whoa, I didn't even know something like that was coming out. Guess I'll have to wait until Dec. to get the whole scoop. Thanks, WOTC-Logan.
sciborg2 05-08-07, 10:41 PM	Probably Bolothomogg wouldn't actually be granting the spells, though; Bolothomogg would be unlikely even to notice the cleric existed. I see him as actually perhaps the most likely elder "evil" to have followers, or at least sends visions and dreams to mortals that seek to keep the Far Realms away from our reality just as he is in keeping the Far Realms from ours.
Shemeska the Marauder 05-09-07, 02:59 AM	We have a section of text in Elder Evils (not about the exact same group, but still pertinent) that said no. Even if they aren't gods, you can still devote yourself to an ideal and gain the cleric benefits (as has been mentioned). What glimmers of detail about this book that have filtered into my little ears have gotten me curious. From what you said I'm inferring that they'd be handled in a way similar to FC:I and II's handling of abyssal lords and archdevils respectively: you can worship those beings and gain cleric spells, using them as a focus of sorts, while the spells themselves would technically be funneled through them from their abstract alignment or plane itself. The difference between true deity and non-divine but god-like unholy terror becomes rather academic at that point, which is a nice way to look at it (though on some level it might have been nice to have also had a few of them retain 2e-era godhood alongside of their archfiend status as well). Should be interesting to see the book, and more details as they surface. Thanks Logan.