Elishar and Toldoth as D&D pantheon deities? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elishar and Toldoth as D&D pantheon deities? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RavinRay
06-19-07, 09:38 PM If you don't have Deities & Demigods, Elishar is the NG deity of the Positive Energy Plane, and Toldoth is its dualistic NE opposite of the Negative Energy Plane in the Following the Light dualistic pantheon. AFAIK in the core cosmology/pantheon the Inner Planes are devoid of deities; the closest that we have are the archomentals and genie lords of the Elemental Planes. The Energy Planes don't have any resident high-ranking entities, unless there are unique advanced movanic devas out there. Not surprising, since compared to the Elemental Planes the Energy Planes are seemingly less populated (xag-ya, ravids, lumi, and devas in the Positive; and xeg-yi, undead, and devas in the Negative). So isn't it feasible to adapt Elishar and Toldoth into the D&D pantheon? They would no longer exist in a dualistic system per se, but a legacy of their dualism could still express itself by having them hold themselves apart from the affairs of the Outer Plane deities and largely confine themselves to their conflict with each other. They might not even be interested in the Elemental Planes for that matter, and let the archomentals and genies bicker with one another. They would not necessarily be the absolute rulers of their planes, like Asmodeus rules Baator; but they are the pre-eminent entities residing there.
Aryxbez
06-19-07, 09:58 PM I think it is a nice idea, I in fact have them in my campaign. I don't see why you couldn't have them in any campaign. Also in my games their areas they somewhat reside in are the Sun(Elishar) and Moon(Toldoth) other than that they have their home planes.

Also the whole idea of there being only Elishar and Toldoth, and the elemental genies as deities or powerful entities is a very interesting idea.
The Ubbergeek
06-20-07, 01:22 PM Hum, I think to use them for a persia-like country in a future.... The Zoroastrism/Manicheism duality and all. Heck, they even vaguely sounds 'oriental'.
ripvanwormer
06-20-07, 01:48 PM Well, they exist in the core D&D cosmology; they're part of the same Great Wheel that Pelor, Nerull, and Boccob are part of. They're not worshiped on the same world as the latter three.

Officially, they're worshiped on a world known by planewalkers as Red Forest (after the mysterious red trees infecting the land due to the influence of Lolth). Elishar and this world are mentioned briefly in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.
XHereticX
06-20-07, 07:52 PM Hum, I think to use them for a persia-like country in a future.... The Zoroastrism/Manicheism duality and all. Heck, they even vaguely sounds 'oriental'.

Yes, I think they would work good in an oriental-type campaign, and fit especially well with the whole Yin/Yang concept.

Or you could do some kind of pseudo-christianity gothic setting, I can just see Elishar's face on a stained glass and Toldoth's on a dark cathedral.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavinRay 06-19-07, 09:38 PM	If you don't have Deities & Demigods, Elishar is the NG deity of the Positive Energy Plane, and Toldoth is its dualistic NE opposite of the Negative Energy Plane in the Following the Light dualistic pantheon. AFAIK in the core cosmology/pantheon the Inner Planes are devoid of deities; the closest that we have are the archomentals and genie lords of the Elemental Planes. The Energy Planes don't have any resident high-ranking entities, unless there are unique advanced movanic devas out there. Not surprising, since compared to the Elemental Planes the Energy Planes are seemingly less populated (xag-ya, ravids, lumi, and devas in the Positive; and xeg-yi, undead, and devas in the Negative). So isn't it feasible to adapt Elishar and Toldoth into the D&D pantheon? They would no longer exist in a dualistic system per se, but a legacy of their dualism could still express itself by having them hold themselves apart from the affairs of the Outer Plane deities and largely confine themselves to their conflict with each other. They might not even be interested in the Elemental Planes for that matter, and let the archomentals and genies bicker with one another. They would not necessarily be the absolute rulers of their planes, like Asmodeus rules Baator; but they are the pre-eminent entities residing there.
Aryxbez 06-19-07, 09:58 PM	I think it is a nice idea, I in fact have them in my campaign. I don't see why you couldn't have them in any campaign. Also in my games their areas they somewhat reside in are the Sun(Elishar) and Moon(Toldoth) other than that they have their home planes. Also the whole idea of there being only Elishar and Toldoth, and the elemental genies as deities or powerful entities is a very interesting idea.
The Ubbergeek 06-20-07, 01:22 PM	Hum, I think to use them for a persia-like country in a future.... The Zoroastrism/Manicheism duality and all. Heck, they even vaguely sounds 'oriental'.
ripvanwormer 06-20-07, 01:48 PM	Well, they exist in the core D&D cosmology; they're part of the same Great Wheel that Pelor, Nerull, and Boccob are part of. They're not worshiped on the same world as the latter three. Officially, they're worshiped on a world known by planewalkers as Red Forest (after the mysterious red trees infecting the land due to the influence of Lolth). Elishar and this world are mentioned briefly in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.
XHereticX 06-20-07, 07:52 PM	Hum, I think to use them for a persia-like country in a future.... The Zoroastrism/Manicheism duality and all. Heck, they even vaguely sounds 'oriental'. Yes, I think they would work good in an oriental-type campaign, and fit especially well with the whole Yin/Yang concept. Or you could do some kind of pseudo-christianity gothic setting, I can just see Elishar's face on a stained glass and Toldoth's on a dark cathedral.