Epic Aspects? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Epic Aspects? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thorsbjorn
11-12-07, 01:06 AM Has anyone ever created any epic aspects? I was looking at the aspects in Miniatures Handbook and thinking that it might be nice to have an epic version of a divine aspect. At some point the party is likely to encounter a group of evil priests attempting to summon a deity. A problem with having them summon the deity itself is that I suspect it would be much too powerful for the party to handle, even if they're might higher epic-level than they are now (21st). Even an avatar of a deity might be too challenging. Also the aspects have listed CRs, while the deities do not, so it's hard to judge the appropriate CR for the deities or their avatars. So I thought that perhaps epic aspects might work better than simply using the deity or avatar. Any ideas? Thanks. :)
The_Cheeseman
11-12-07, 02:33 AM You are correct that fighting a god would be a bit much. They were not assigned CRs for the specific reason that their powers made them inappropriate as combat encounters in any situation. However, the idea of epic aspects is a good one, which I have used many times, myself.

Creating epic aspects is fairly simple, if you are good at monster design. Unfortunately, each individual aspect is too different to create a general set of guidelines for its creation. The same entity (deity, demon lord, archdevil, etc) can have multiple aspects each representing various facets of its being, and having almost totally different sets of abilities.

I would use the deity's stats as inspiration for their basic combat tactics and battle strategies, then use those ideas to create entirely new monsters using those concepts, which use the standard CR system. Keep in mind, that in epic levels, character power tends to become unbalanced, so CR is not always an effective method of estimating a monster's challenge to the party (as odd as that sounds).

I actually have a campaign currently in the works in which the party will eventually face 7 different aspects of a demigoddess, before finally getting to take a shot at the deity herself. The deity in question is wholly original and unique to my campaign world (actually she is an ascended mortal who was once a PC character), so the stats I used probably wouldn't be helpful to your game. However, as I mentioned above, I simply used 7 different facets of the goddess's personality as inspiration, then crafted unique creatures that had powers I thought evoked the spirit of that personality trait.

I realize that all I have really told you is, "There is no straight-forward way to accomplish what you want" but I do think that many times--especially when dealing with divine entities--some extra care and careful planning are worth the time and effort needed to reach a satisfying result. Hope this helps!
Thorsbjorn
11-12-07, 02:48 AM You are correct that fighting a god would be a bit much. They were not assigned CRs for the specific reason that their powers made them inappropriate as combat encounters in any situation. However, the idea of epic aspects is a good one, which I have used many times, myself.

Creating epic aspects is fairly simple, if you are good at monster design. Unfortunately, each individual aspect is too different to create a general set of guidelines for its creation. The same entity (deity, demon lord, archdevil, etc) can have multiple aspects each representing various facets of its being, and having almost totally different sets of abilities.

I would use the deity's stats as inspiration for their basic combat tactics and battle strategies, then use those ideas to create entirely new monsters using those concepts, which use the standard CR system. Keep in mind, that in epic levels, character power tends to become unbalanced, so CR is not always an effective method of estimating a monster's challenge to the party (as odd as that sounds).

I actually have a campaign currently in the works in which the party will eventually face 7 different aspects of a demigoddess, before finally getting to take a shot at the deity herself. The deity in question is wholly original and unique to my campaign world (actually she is an ascended mortal who was once a PC character), so the stats I used probably wouldn't be helpful to your game. However, as I mentioned above, I simply used 7 different facets of the goddess's personality as inspiration, then crafted unique creatures that had powers I thought evoked the spirit of that personality trait.

I realize that all I have really told you is, "There is no straight-forward way to accomplish what you want" but I do think that many times--especially when dealing with divine entities--some extra care and careful planning are worth the time and effort needed to reach a satisfying result. Hope this helps!

Thanks for the reply. How did you derive the aspects' CRs? Did you make each aspect progressively more powerful, or did you have each one with about the same amount of power, merely representing a different aspect of the deity?

I was just thinking that maybe I could use the rules for abominations in the Epic Level Handbook as a starting point to create an aspect.
The_Cheeseman
11-12-07, 08:13 AM I calculated their CRs based on their relative strength, by comparing their attack bonuses, AC, hit points, caster levels, etc against the party's capabilities at that level. Generally, I tried to shoot for a CR of 5 over the party's average level (since they were boss encounters).

Abominations are a great place to start. You also may want to check out the demon lord template in Dragon #359.
Thorsbjorn
11-12-07, 05:02 PM I calculated their CRs based on their relative strength, by comparing their attack bonuses, AC, hit points, caster levels, etc against the party's capabilities at that level. Generally, I tried to shoot for a CR of 5 over the party's average level (since they were boss encounters).

Abominations are a great place to start. You also may want to check out the demon lord template in Dragon #359.

Great! I have that issue and I've examined the template briefly. Thanks! :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thorsbjorn 11-12-07, 01:06 AM	Has anyone ever created any epic aspects? I was looking at the aspects in Miniatures Handbook and thinking that it might be nice to have an epic version of a divine aspect. At some point the party is likely to encounter a group of evil priests attempting to summon a deity. A problem with having them summon the deity itself is that I suspect it would be much too powerful for the party to handle, even if they're might higher epic-level than they are now (21st). Even an avatar of a deity might be too challenging. Also the aspects have listed CRs, while the deities do not, so it's hard to judge the appropriate CR for the deities or their avatars. So I thought that perhaps epic aspects might work better than simply using the deity or avatar. Any ideas? Thanks. :)
The_Cheeseman 11-12-07, 02:33 AM	You are correct that fighting a god would be a bit much. They were not assigned CRs for the specific reason that their powers made them inappropriate as combat encounters in any situation. However, the idea of epic aspects is a good one, which I have used many times, myself. Creating epic aspects is fairly simple, if you are good at monster design. Unfortunately, each individual aspect is too different to create a general set of guidelines for its creation. The same entity (deity, demon lord, archdevil, etc) can have multiple aspects each representing various facets of its being, and having almost totally different sets of abilities. I would use the deity's stats as inspiration for their basic combat tactics and battle strategies, then use those ideas to create entirely new monsters using those concepts, which use the standard CR system. Keep in mind, that in epic levels, character power tends to become unbalanced, so CR is not always an effective method of estimating a monster's challenge to the party (as odd as that sounds). I actually have a campaign currently in the works in which the party will eventually face 7 different aspects of a demigoddess, before finally getting to take a shot at the deity herself. The deity in question is wholly original and unique to my campaign world (actually she is an ascended mortal who was once a PC character), so the stats I used probably wouldn't be helpful to your game. However, as I mentioned above, I simply used 7 different facets of the goddess's personality as inspiration, then crafted unique creatures that had powers I thought evoked the spirit of that personality trait. I realize that all I have really told you is, "There is no straight-forward way to accomplish what you want" but I do think that many times--especially when dealing with divine entities--some extra care and careful planning are worth the time and effort needed to reach a satisfying result. Hope this helps!
Thorsbjorn 11-12-07, 02:48 AM	You are correct that fighting a god would be a bit much. They were not assigned CRs for the specific reason that their powers made them inappropriate as combat encounters in any situation. However, the idea of epic aspects is a good one, which I have used many times, myself. Creating epic aspects is fairly simple, if you are good at monster design. Unfortunately, each individual aspect is too different to create a general set of guidelines for its creation. The same entity (deity, demon lord, archdevil, etc) can have multiple aspects each representing various facets of its being, and having almost totally different sets of abilities. I would use the deity's stats as inspiration for their basic combat tactics and battle strategies, then use those ideas to create entirely new monsters using those concepts, which use the standard CR system. Keep in mind, that in epic levels, character power tends to become unbalanced, so CR is not always an effective method of estimating a monster's challenge to the party (as odd as that sounds). I actually have a campaign currently in the works in which the party will eventually face 7 different aspects of a demigoddess, before finally getting to take a shot at the deity herself. The deity in question is wholly original and unique to my campaign world (actually she is an ascended mortal who was once a PC character), so the stats I used probably wouldn't be helpful to your game. However, as I mentioned above, I simply used 7 different facets of the goddess's personality as inspiration, then crafted unique creatures that had powers I thought evoked the spirit of that personality trait. I realize that all I have really told you is, "There is no straight-forward way to accomplish what you want" but I do think that many times--especially when dealing with divine entities--some extra care and careful planning are worth the time and effort needed to reach a satisfying result. Hope this helps! Thanks for the reply. How did you derive the aspects' CRs? Did you make each aspect progressively more powerful, or did you have each one with about the same amount of power, merely representing a different aspect of the deity? I was just thinking that maybe I could use the rules for abominations in the Epic Level Handbook as a starting point to create an aspect.
The_Cheeseman 11-12-07, 08:13 AM	I calculated their CRs based on their relative strength, by comparing their attack bonuses, AC, hit points, caster levels, etc against the party's capabilities at that level. Generally, I tried to shoot for a CR of 5 over the party's average level (since they were boss encounters). Abominations are a great place to start. You also may want to check out the demon lord template in Dragon #359.
Thorsbjorn 11-12-07, 05:02 PM	I calculated their CRs based on their relative strength, by comparing their attack bonuses, AC, hit points, caster levels, etc against the party's capabilities at that level. Generally, I tried to shoot for a CR of 5 over the party's average level (since they were boss encounters). Abominations are a great place to start. You also may want to check out the demon lord template in Dragon #359. Great! I have that issue and I've examined the template briefly. Thanks! :)