Fighting an avatar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fighting an avatar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mirron
05-09-07, 08:37 PM Okay, thank you for reading this.

Currently, my group is fighting an Avatar, the Avatar of Takhsis, which looks like a giant worm/snake. I'm a Psion, and the others are a Wizard, 2 Rangers, a Druid, a Rogue, and a Cleric, all at fairly low levels around 3. The Avatar is probably somewhere around 30, with stats through the roof, of around 50, except Dexterity, which is 10, with 800 HP, and a high AC, too thick to damage with most weapons. We have a limited time to defeat it before it becomes a god, and the universe blows up. There are two gods, resting outside of a powerful force field, enough to block them for a time. I believe that if they recover enough they can help. Now, this isn't exactly a deity, but any avatar solutions for this?
Borris
05-10-07, 10:43 AM Are you really all level 3? You're about 20 levels away from being able to stand up to it. I don't recall any avatar having a CR under 20.

In my opinion, you only have two choices. Your best bet is to find a way to somehow reach or awaken one of teh gods being the force fields. Your DM can't expect you to beat an aspect with those stats (or to deal 800 points of damage to anything in a limited number of rounds) so, unless he plans for the world to be blowned up, there has to be some way to free at least one of those resting gods.

The seond option is a bit more unpleasant. Get on your knees and grovel, keeping your eyes down while chanting repeatedly how great Takhisis is and how unworthy of her presence you are. She may have a place for you in the world to come.
Mirron
05-10-07, 10:57 AM 3 NPC's went over to his side (The Avatar is a he) and got eaten. We do have an essentially invincible zombie, who can't die until the Avatar dies, but, he's a Rogue, and not very good at hurting him so far. We have like 12, I think, people, 7 PC's, and 5 NPC's. I'm hoping that, if everytime we aren't attacking, we're praying to those two gods to get better, they will quickly enough. On the bright side, if I win, the team say's I can become a god in the Avatar's place.
DwarfPcfan
05-10-07, 11:00 AM Not to be mean but, if your party tries to fight that thing at your current level, you deserve to die, horribly, very horribly.

Also, your Dm needs a crash course in proper Dming

Avatars are epic adventures in themselves unless used as plot hooks (meaning they act in the background while the party tries to find a solution/gain experience to oppose him etc)

Sorry to say this but there something sincerily wrong in what you are saying...
Lord Karsus
05-10-07, 01:11 PM -If you don't mind me asking, how did a bunch of 3rd level characters get themselves into this situation?
Eatable_Dice
05-10-07, 01:17 PM They are really playing as those cut scenes npcs that get blasted to pieces just in time to muck up the REAL heroe´s outfits.

That or the DM is a complete moron.
Kain Darkwind
05-10-07, 01:20 PM Mechanically, you can't win. Even if you were fighting a 30HD dragon with ability scores of 10 across the board and no special abilities, you probably wouldn't be able to win. Not at level 3.

Huge Dragon
30d12 (195 hp)
AC 37 (-2 size, +29 nat)
Full Atk: Bite +28 melee (2d8) and 2 claws +23 melee (2d6) and 2 wings +23 melee (1d8) and tail slap (2d6)
Saves: Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +17

And obviously, no avatar is going to have ability scores of 10 across the board. With no special abilities.

It sounds like the DM is holding back a deus ex machina to save you, or he is having you go out with a bang. (And will have the deus ex machina save his campaign setting, if he wants it saved) Neither one sounds too terribly fun or fair though.

It would be hard enough to fight an aspect of Tiamat (Tahkisis) at your level. They are CR 10. You might be able to take one down if you were lucky at level 6-7.
sciborg2
05-11-07, 12:41 AM Solution: Find a new DM.
Mirron
05-11-07, 10:32 AM Yeah, his Dexterity is 10, but his other stats are in the 50's. His vomit is enough to kill us, since an NPC made him vomit. Okay, we sort of helped the avatar earlier, not on purpose, and gave him a suit of armor, which he was able to use because we gathered 3 pieces of an emerald together, which sucked him up, and then we put him in the suit. We thought that was the only way to escape. He got the armor, but we poured raw elemental energy on him, and the armor exploded. Our Rogue, who died, and came back as a zombie under his control, took the gem, and gave it to Provada, a computer program, who was actually evil. Meanwhile, we were still gathering elements for him, and once we got all four, he revealed he was evil. He then had us sent to an underground dungeon, but we escaped, thanks to a ground snake we earlier had freed. They tried to get me to ask Lunitari to get us out, but I can't do this now, because the two gods, Lunitari and Pelor, who managed to get in the tower's before a huge, deity blocking barrier was raised, had to use all their powers to open a way so we could fight him. Now then, either this is all a long joke, and he won't actually become a god, or he has Deus ex Machina planned, which everyone thinks is going to happen. Personally, I'm hoping for intervention from my characters home dimension, or the deities reviving. Otherwise, I'll be caught by suprise.
preacher of nothing
05-11-07, 01:15 PM IIRC, there is a 3rd level spell called "Shivering Touch" or some such in Frostburn that does 3d6 dexterity damage with no save (just spell resistance).

You need to make a successful touch attack I think and also bypass spell resistance somehow, but if either the wizard or cleric can cast this spell and get it to work, the avatar's screwed.

As a side note, when I saw this spell and realized how broken it is vs. dragons and such, I thought it would be errata'd but I never got around to check if it did, so it might have been errata'd...

Even if it wasn't errata'd, there's a lot of ifs

If your DM allows your wizard or cleric to use it
If either of them manages to make the touch attack
If they bypass the Spell Resistance
If you do 10 Dex damage

then you have a chance :P

Sorry, the only thing other than that I can think of would be to pray to whatever god your character worships and manifest as many crystal shards as you can :D
Mirtek
05-11-07, 02:32 PM then you have a chance :P
And that only if the avatar is distracted enough to forget that he's immune to ability damage :D
preacher of nothing
05-11-07, 02:37 PM And that only if the avatar is distracted enough to forget that he's immune to ability damage :D

frek!

Yeah....that too :(
Zalakhiel
05-11-07, 04:07 PM This is a losing battle, and you know it. Even if you rolled 3 natural 20s in a row, you wouldn`t get to deal enough damage to bypass its DR, let alone defeat it. Ask your DM if he has issues with any of you in real life, as I personally see this as some sort of vendetta.

I did this once, my PCs were lvl 40 DvR 3-4 Demigods and I let them face Nerull himself. Though, in the end they were resurrected thanks to Pelor`s intervention.

But as you see, in the latter case the PCs did have a chance to survive by themselves, whereas in your case, you will be turned into pillars for the Deity`s castle. There, enjoy your eternity of torture in a nightmare from which you will never awaken. :/
Mirron
05-12-07, 01:23 AM Hmm, one thing I forgot, and it appears the Deus ex Machina has been revealed.

1. Pelor gave us three extra lives each, so we have somewhat of a chance. (Thing I forgot)

2. The elemental vials, floating around the avatar, which we collected, well, if you release the power, it deals 8 d10 damage each, and appear to be reuseable. So, we have 4 vials, meaning at least 4 attacks per turn, and they might be reuseable. If they are, he will die. Glad that I'm not the only one thinking this was impossible. Personally, I just hope using the vials doesn't interfere with my becoming a deity. If I do, I have a few ideas to stop the universe from ending. If I can't, I'll just remake or ressurect my team.
Borris
05-12-07, 08:09 AM I doubt the vials will be enough. With a damage rating of 8d10, it deals an average of 44 points of damage, assuming the avatar doesn't have any sort of resistance to the elemental damage of the vials.

Assuming the avatar has the 800 hp you estimated in the first post, and assuming that each of the four charaters hit once every round, it'll take you 5 rounds to kill the avatar. Now, with a strength score of 50, a single melee attack from the avatar will deal something around 30 points of damage, usually enough to put any 3rd-level adventurer unconscious. That means it takes you 5 rounds to beat the avatar, but, by that time, half of the party will be dead, and that's with only on attack per round. If any characters are close enough from each other, the avatar should be able to make a ful-attack and down 2-3 in a single round.

As for becoming as deity, I wouldn't even dream of it at that point. That's the kid of thing that only happens to characters that are well into epic levels, meaning 21 and above, if it can happen at all. A level 3 character just doesn't have the life experience of has accomplished enough to be granted that sort of reward. Of course, your DM may see things differently than I do.
Mirtek
05-12-07, 11:36 AM 1. Pelor gave us three extra lives each, so we have somewhat of a chance. (Thing I forgot)

2. The elemental vials, floating around the avatar, which we collected, well, if you release the power, it deals 8 d10 damage each, and appear to be reuseable. So, we have 4 vials, meaning at least 4 attacks per turn, and they might be reuseable. If they are, he will die. Glad that I'm not the only one thinking this was impossible. Personally, I just hope using the vials doesn't interfere with my becoming a deity. If I do, I have a few ideas to stop the universe from ending. If I can't, I'll just remake or ressurect my team.
Even then you technically have no chance at all. The avatar can TPK you every round and three rounds are not enough to kill such a creature with 8d10 damage attacks
Luis_Dragunov
05-12-07, 11:55 AM Run.
NOW B*TCH NOW! RUN!

Seriously, you can't win. You're level 3!There are blacksmiths with more churning power than you. What the feck are you doing fighting anything more dangerous than a sewer of fiendish rats? My solution: slap your DM on the back of the head.
Mirron
05-12-07, 10:24 PM Their's a barrier, blocking anyone from entering or leaving, that required two deities to open. We aren't leaving that way. Now then, with the 4 lives we each have, I think we might be able to kill it. We hit it with the water one, and it froze where it hit solid. If we shatter it, part of it shatters, so, we might win. If my character becomes a deity, then I'll tell you how it goes. I'll also tell you about the battle.
Mirtek
05-13-07, 08:15 AM Their's a barrier, blocking anyone from entering or leaving, that required two deities to open. We aren't leaving that way. Now then, with the 4 lives we each have, I think we might be able to kill it. We hit it with the water one, and it froze where it hit solid. If we shatter it, part of it shatters, so, we might win. If my character becomes a deity, then I'll tell you how it goes. I'll also tell you about the battle.
Are you playing D&D or Super Mario D20? :rolleyes:
Mirron
05-13-07, 10:09 AM Well, the whole 4 lives thing was thanks to Pelor. I think my DM was trying to give us a sporting chance. As for the frozen solid part, that is what we are assuming, that if shattered, it won't regrow.
RequiemOfReason
05-13-07, 02:51 PM A sporting chance.
Against an avatar of Takhisis.
At level three.

Have fun with that.

I'd just sit back and follow whatever Deus Ex Machina your DM has planned.
Also, eat any mushrooms you find. Dreadfully useful, those mushrooms.
Mirron
05-13-07, 04:23 PM Yeah, I know, if it weren't for the extra lives, and the Deus ex Machina he recently provided for us, I would be more negative as well.
sciborg2
05-13-07, 05:22 PM Are you playing D&D or Super Mario D20?

Maybe its Super Mario D20 MODERN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpBGRA6HHtY
Kojiro James
05-16-07, 01:39 AM Is your DM's name "Jake" by any chance? Because this nonsensical low-level vs. avatar wackiness sounds suspiciously familiar.
Mirron
05-16-07, 10:16 AM No, his name doesn't even start with a J. We actually might win, we have the 4 elements, although one (Wind) apparently does nothing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mirron 05-09-07, 08:37 PM	Okay, thank you for reading this. Currently, my group is fighting an Avatar, the Avatar of Takhsis, which looks like a giant worm/snake. I'm a Psion, and the others are a Wizard, 2 Rangers, a Druid, a Rogue, and a Cleric, all at fairly low levels around 3. The Avatar is probably somewhere around 30, with stats through the roof, of around 50, except Dexterity, which is 10, with 800 HP, and a high AC, too thick to damage with most weapons. We have a limited time to defeat it before it becomes a god, and the universe blows up. There are two gods, resting outside of a powerful force field, enough to block them for a time. I believe that if they recover enough they can help. Now, this isn't exactly a deity, but any avatar solutions for this?
Borris 05-10-07, 10:43 AM	Are you really all level 3? You're about 20 levels away from being able to stand up to it. I don't recall any avatar having a CR under 20. In my opinion, you only have two choices. Your best bet is to find a way to somehow reach or awaken one of teh gods being the force fields. Your DM can't expect you to beat an aspect with those stats (or to deal 800 points of damage to anything in a limited number of rounds) so, unless he plans for the world to be blowned up, there has to be some way to free at least one of those resting gods. The seond option is a bit more unpleasant. Get on your knees and grovel, keeping your eyes down while chanting repeatedly how great Takhisis is and how unworthy of her presence you are. She may have a place for you in the world to come.
Mirron 05-10-07, 10:57 AM	3 NPC's went over to his side (The Avatar is a he) and got eaten. We do have an essentially invincible zombie, who can't die until the Avatar dies, but, he's a Rogue, and not very good at hurting him so far. We have like 12, I think, people, 7 PC's, and 5 NPC's. I'm hoping that, if everytime we aren't attacking, we're praying to those two gods to get better, they will quickly enough. On the bright side, if I win, the team say's I can become a god in the Avatar's place.
DwarfPcfan 05-10-07, 11:00 AM	Not to be mean but, if your party tries to fight that thing at your current level, you deserve to die, horribly, very horribly. Also, your Dm needs a crash course in proper Dming Avatars are epic adventures in themselves unless used as plot hooks (meaning they act in the background while the party tries to find a solution/gain experience to oppose him etc) Sorry to say this but there something sincerily wrong in what you are saying...
Lord Karsus 05-10-07, 01:11 PM	-If you don't mind me asking, how did a bunch of 3rd level characters get themselves into this situation?
Eatable_Dice 05-10-07, 01:17 PM	They are really playing as those cut scenes npcs that get blasted to pieces just in time to muck up the REAL heroe´s outfits. That or the DM is a complete moron.
Kain Darkwind 05-10-07, 01:20 PM	Mechanically, you can't win. Even if you were fighting a 30HD dragon with ability scores of 10 across the board and no special abilities, you probably wouldn't be able to win. Not at level 3. Huge Dragon 30d12 (195 hp) AC 37 (-2 size, +29 nat) Full Atk: Bite +28 melee (2d8) and 2 claws +23 melee (2d6) and 2 wings +23 melee (1d8) and tail slap (2d6) Saves: Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +17 And obviously, no avatar is going to have ability scores of 10 across the board. With no special abilities. It sounds like the DM is holding back a deus ex machina to save you, or he is having you go out with a bang. (And will have the deus ex machina save his campaign setting, if he wants it saved) Neither one sounds too terribly fun or fair though. It would be hard enough to fight an aspect of Tiamat (Tahkisis) at your level. They are CR 10. You might be able to take one down if you were lucky at level 6-7.
sciborg2 05-11-07, 12:41 AM	Solution: Find a new DM.
Mirron 05-11-07, 10:32 AM	Yeah, his Dexterity is 10, but his other stats are in the 50's. His vomit is enough to kill us, since an NPC made him vomit. Okay, we sort of helped the avatar earlier, not on purpose, and gave him a suit of armor, which he was able to use because we gathered 3 pieces of an emerald together, which sucked him up, and then we put him in the suit. We thought that was the only way to escape. He got the armor, but we poured raw elemental energy on him, and the armor exploded. Our Rogue, who died, and came back as a zombie under his control, took the gem, and gave it to Provada, a computer program, who was actually evil. Meanwhile, we were still gathering elements for him, and once we got all four, he revealed he was evil. He then had us sent to an underground dungeon, but we escaped, thanks to a ground snake we earlier had freed. They tried to get me to ask Lunitari to get us out, but I can't do this now, because the two gods, Lunitari and Pelor, who managed to get in the tower's before a huge, deity blocking barrier was raised, had to use all their powers to open a way so we could fight him. Now then, either this is all a long joke, and he won't actually become a god, or he has Deus ex Machina planned, which everyone thinks is going to happen. Personally, I'm hoping for intervention from my characters home dimension, or the deities reviving. Otherwise, I'll be caught by suprise.
preacher of nothing 05-11-07, 01:15 PM	IIRC, there is a 3rd level spell called "Shivering Touch" or some such in Frostburn that does 3d6 dexterity damage with no save (just spell resistance). You need to make a successful touch attack I think and also bypass spell resistance somehow, but if either the wizard or cleric can cast this spell and get it to work, the avatar's screwed. As a side note, when I saw this spell and realized how broken it is vs. dragons and such, I thought it would be errata'd but I never got around to check if it did, so it might have been errata'd... Even if it wasn't errata'd, there's a lot of ifs If your DM allows your wizard or cleric to use it If either of them manages to make the touch attack If they bypass the Spell Resistance If you do 10 Dex damage then you have a chance :P Sorry, the only thing other than that I can think of would be to pray to whatever god your character worships and manifest as many crystal shards as you can :D
Mirtek 05-11-07, 02:32 PM	then you have a chance :P And that only if the avatar is distracted enough to forget that he's immune to ability damage :D
preacher of nothing 05-11-07, 02:37 PM	And that only if the avatar is distracted enough to forget that he's immune to ability damage :D frek! Yeah....that too :(
Zalakhiel 05-11-07, 04:07 PM	This is a losing battle, and you know it. Even if you rolled 3 natural 20s in a row, you wouldn`t get to deal enough damage to bypass its DR, let alone defeat it. Ask your DM if he has issues with any of you in real life, as I personally see this as some sort of vendetta. I did this once, my PCs were lvl 40 DvR 3-4 Demigods and I let them face Nerull himself. Though, in the end they were resurrected thanks to Pelor`s intervention. But as you see, in the latter case the PCs did have a chance to survive by themselves, whereas in your case, you will be turned into pillars for the Deity`s castle. There, enjoy your eternity of torture in a nightmare from which you will never awaken. :/
Mirron 05-12-07, 01:23 AM	Hmm, one thing I forgot, and it appears the Deus ex Machina has been revealed. 1. Pelor gave us three extra lives each, so we have somewhat of a chance. (Thing I forgot) 2. The elemental vials, floating around the avatar, which we collected, well, if you release the power, it deals 8 d10 damage each, and appear to be reuseable. So, we have 4 vials, meaning at least 4 attacks per turn, and they might be reuseable. If they are, he will die. Glad that I'm not the only one thinking this was impossible. Personally, I just hope using the vials doesn't interfere with my becoming a deity. If I do, I have a few ideas to stop the universe from ending. If I can't, I'll just remake or ressurect my team.
Borris 05-12-07, 08:09 AM	I doubt the vials will be enough. With a damage rating of 8d10, it deals an average of 44 points of damage, assuming the avatar doesn't have any sort of resistance to the elemental damage of the vials. Assuming the avatar has the 800 hp you estimated in the first post, and assuming that each of the four charaters hit once every round, it'll take you 5 rounds to kill the avatar. Now, with a strength score of 50, a single melee attack from the avatar will deal something around 30 points of damage, usually enough to put any 3rd-level adventurer unconscious. That means it takes you 5 rounds to beat the avatar, but, by that time, half of the party will be dead, and that's with only on attack per round. If any characters are close enough from each other, the avatar should be able to make a ful-attack and down 2-3 in a single round. As for becoming as deity, I wouldn't even dream of it at that point. That's the kid of thing that only happens to characters that are well into epic levels, meaning 21 and above, if it can happen at all. A level 3 character just doesn't have the life experience of has accomplished enough to be granted that sort of reward. Of course, your DM may see things differently than I do.
Mirtek 05-12-07, 11:36 AM	1. Pelor gave us three extra lives each, so we have somewhat of a chance. (Thing I forgot) 2. The elemental vials, floating around the avatar, which we collected, well, if you release the power, it deals 8 d10 damage each, and appear to be reuseable. So, we have 4 vials, meaning at least 4 attacks per turn, and they might be reuseable. If they are, he will die. Glad that I'm not the only one thinking this was impossible. Personally, I just hope using the vials doesn't interfere with my becoming a deity. If I do, I have a few ideas to stop the universe from ending. If I can't, I'll just remake or ressurect my team. Even then you technically have no chance at all. The avatar can TPK you every round and three rounds are not enough to kill such a creature with 8d10 damage attacks
Luis_Dragunov 05-12-07, 11:55 AM	Run. NOW B*TCH NOW! RUN! Seriously, you can't win. You're level 3!There are blacksmiths with more churning power than you. What the feck are you doing fighting anything more dangerous than a sewer of fiendish rats? My solution: slap your DM on the back of the head.
Mirron 05-12-07, 10:24 PM	Their's a barrier, blocking anyone from entering or leaving, that required two deities to open. We aren't leaving that way. Now then, with the 4 lives we each have, I think we might be able to kill it. We hit it with the water one, and it froze where it hit solid. If we shatter it, part of it shatters, so, we might win. If my character becomes a deity, then I'll tell you how it goes. I'll also tell you about the battle.
Mirtek 05-13-07, 08:15 AM	Their's a barrier, blocking anyone from entering or leaving, that required two deities to open. We aren't leaving that way. Now then, with the 4 lives we each have, I think we might be able to kill it. We hit it with the water one, and it froze where it hit solid. If we shatter it, part of it shatters, so, we might win. If my character becomes a deity, then I'll tell you how it goes. I'll also tell you about the battle. Are you playing D&D or Super Mario D20? :rolleyes:
Mirron 05-13-07, 10:09 AM	Well, the whole 4 lives thing was thanks to Pelor. I think my DM was trying to give us a sporting chance. As for the frozen solid part, that is what we are assuming, that if shattered, it won't regrow.
RequiemOfReason 05-13-07, 02:51 PM	A sporting chance. Against an avatar of Takhisis. At level three. Have fun with that. I'd just sit back and follow whatever Deus Ex Machina your DM has planned. Also, eat any mushrooms you find. Dreadfully useful, those mushrooms.
Mirron 05-13-07, 04:23 PM	Yeah, I know, if it weren't for the extra lives, and the Deus ex Machina he recently provided for us, I would be more negative as well.
sciborg2 05-13-07, 05:22 PM	Are you playing D&D or Super Mario D20? Maybe its Super Mario D20 MODERN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpBGRA6HHtY
Kojiro James 05-16-07, 01:39 AM	Is your DM's name "Jake" by any chance? Because this nonsensical low-level vs. avatar wackiness sounds suspiciously familiar.
Mirron 05-16-07, 10:16 AM	No, his name doesn't even start with a J. We actually might win, we have the 4 elements, although one (Wind) apparently does nothing.