Filling the plane of Vacuum [Archive] - Wizards Community

Filling the plane of Vacuum [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
goldomark
09-21-07, 01:26 PM Chris Perkins said that the plane of Vacuum is the antithesis of fun, when explaining why all the changes to the DnD cosmology. Yes its a (almost) empty space, hostile to life, but fun can happen there.

So I was wounderring if anybody DMed or played in a adventure set in the plane of Vacuum or if anybody ever reflected on the plane. It needs alot of love, so lets share ideas to fill this Quasiplane.

Here is some quick info on the place. I'm shure alot of people have more to say on it. The Quasielemental plane of Vacuum is located on the border of the Negative Energy plane and the Elemental plane of Air. It is a vast plane but ultimately with limited dimensions.

As for myself, my adventuring party and I used it once. We though that it was a great place to hide from an Effret mad at use (because it was so hostile to life and empty, we thought that no one would look for us in the Void :rolleyes: ). Some worm, native to the plane of Vacuum, attacked us, so we had to flee. Hidding there was a good idea. But our DM wanted us on the run. So that is my story. Brief, but intense :D .
Shemeska the Marauder
09-21-07, 08:37 PM Chris Perkins said that the plane of Vacuum is the antithesis of fun, when explaining wwhy all the cahnges to the DnD cosmology.

It was an odd thing to say, given that the plane has a number of rather interesting creatures living (and thriving) there, a major fortress of a planar faction (Citadel Exhalus), and some planar mysteries (ie Sun Sing).

Compounding the situation, many of those 2e things have actually appeared in 3.x books as well, so it's not like only people who played 2e might know about the things, persons, and locations that might make them want to go there in a campaign. For a place that's the antithesis of fun, it's odd then that they're included in the 3.x Planar Handbook (Citadel Exhalus and the Doomguard faction there), or in the Fiendish Codex I (Sun Sing and overt description of quasielemental vacuum as a border between Air and Negative Energy).
ArcTan
09-21-07, 11:22 PM They retconned the Citadel Exhalus to being in the Negative Energy Plane in the 3.5 Planar Handbook. (Of course, you can retcon the retcon by saying that Vacuum is merely the border between Air and Negative Energy without being a plane of its own.)

The main thing I don't like about Vacuum isn't just that, by definition, it's a big empty place where you suffocate. It's that it's one of those contradictory concepts for planes, where the border region between two planes is, for some reason, more lethal than either plane alone.

You don't suffocate in the Negative Energy Plane. You die of negative energy, sure, but if you have death ward up, you're fine. Because apparently, the Negative Energy Plane has *air you can breathe*.

Only in the place where Negative Energy and Air intersect is there a suffocation hazard... because, for some unknown reason, only Negative Energy + Air = a lack of air.

It's kind of like asking why Negative Energy + Water = Salt (i.e. a lack of water), while Negative Energy + Earth = Dust (which is really just... fine-ground Earth, not a lack of Earth) or Negative Energy + Fire = Ash (which, while it's certainly not on fire, isn't exactly the *lack* of fire).

I dunno. Maybe I'm just being pigheaded, but the Quasielemental Planes always seemed particularly arbitrary to me, and therefore annoying to stumble on in a game. I mean, it's not like I have any particularly strong ideas what "negative air" would be (that's really the problem), but the fact that two planes where you can breathe overlap into one plane where you can't just bugs me. The Paraelemental Planes are fairly obvious by comparison (with the exception of Ice, which seems weird to me -- if it were me I'd've made Ice = Negative + Water and Steam = Positive + Water, and Air + Water would be Mist or Fog or something).

As far as WotC being a united front about the planes, they're not. The core designers for 4e clearly have different opinions than some of the writers contracted to work on specific books. I remember one of the Planar Handbook authors specifically saying that they did it to make it a "3.5 Planescape sourcebook", even though Manual of the Planes had specifically been trying to avoid that.
Shemeska the Marauder
09-21-07, 11:36 PM They retconned the Citadel Exhalus to being in the Negative Energy Plane in the 3.5 Planar Handbook. (Of course, you can retcon the retcon by saying that Vacuum is merely the border between Air and Negative Energy without being a plane of its own.)

The PlHB writers were pretty much just following the assumed design direction of the earlier planar material (that was forced to avoid naming anything not "core" to a fault). Thus they squeezed the Doomguard citadels into whatever they seemed to think fit in the absence of having the quasielemental planes mentioned (though they didn't always do a spot on job in naming the replacement locales). Later, without being shackled by those creative restrictions, the authors of FC:I went and openly talked about Sun Sing and Vacuum. FC:I retconned the retcon for me. ;)

You don't suffocate in the Negative Energy Plane. You die of negative energy, sure, but if you have death ward up, you're fine. Because apparently, the Negative Energy Plane has *air you can breathe*.

The Negative Energy Plane doesn't have air either (see The Inner Planes descrption of the hazards of the plane. Lack of anything to breath is listed among them.)

Only in the place where Negative Energy and Air intersect is there a suffocation hazard... because, for some unknown reason, only Negative Energy + Air = a lack of air.

All of the quasi-elemental planes were the effects of idealized entropy upon the respective elements, not necessarily the absolute lack of them. Water evaporates, furn burns down to ashes, earth becomes useless dust, and air is consumed till only the void remains. They all have some degree of whimsy in how they were decided, but they had some really wickedly cool things therein even if some funky logic went into their creation.
Kain Darkwind
09-21-07, 11:42 PM They retconned the Citadel Exhalus to being in the Negative Energy Plane in the 3.5 Planar Handbook. (Of course, you can retcon the retcon by saying that Vacuum is merely the border between Air and Negative Energy without being a plane of its own.)

The main thing I don't like about Vacuum isn't just that, by definition, it's a big empty place where you suffocate. It's that it's one of those contradictory concepts for planes, where the border region between two planes is, for some reason, more lethal than either plane alone.

You don't suffocate in the Negative Energy Plane. You die of negative energy, sure, but if you have death ward up, you're fine. Because apparently, the Negative Energy Plane has *air you can breathe*.

Only in the place where Negative Energy and Air intersect is there a suffocation hazard... because, for some unknown reason, only Negative Energy + Air = a lack of air.

It's kind of like asking why Negative Energy + Water = Salt (i.e. a lack of water), while Negative Energy + Earth = Dust (which is really just... fine-ground Earth, not a lack of Earth) or Negative Energy + Fire = Ash (which, while it's certainly not on fire, isn't exactly the *lack* of fire).

Ash para elementals drew off fire. I think they were trying to go for the idea of fire with the fire sucked out of it. Which I guess is ash. And i guess if you suck the water out of salt water you are left with salt. The neg-quasis don't make the most sense, I agree, but they are not bad. And even your problem with them makes much more sense than Perkins perceived issue.

And I never felt the need to provide breathable air on any Inner plane other than Air.

As far as WotC being a united front about the planes, they're not. The core designers for 4e clearly have different opinions than some of the writers contracted to work on specific books. I remember one of the Planar Handbook authors specifically saying that they did it to make it a "3.5 Planescape sourcebook", even though Manual of the Planes had specifically been trying to avoid that.

Which makes me wonder how cohesive of a planar cosmos we'll get with this next edition.
ripvanwormer
09-21-07, 11:59 PM The main thing I don't like about Vacuum

Stop threadcrapping. This thread is about interesting things you've done with the Plane of Vacuum, not about how lame you think everything is. The original poster specifically asked for positive contributions.

As my positive contribution to this thread, I offer my Plane of Vacuum webpage: http://geocities.com/ripvanwormer/vacuum.html
goldomark
09-22-07, 03:18 AM Great info Rip. I love the different symbols or real phenomenons associated with the Void. A dying planet lossing its atmosphere, a assassin's strangle cord, fishes ashore belly up, an empty bowl, the color black, lead. The locations are great to, specialy the idea that some are the leftovers of absorb demiplanes or worlds.

I would just critic the void elemental. I wouldn't make it's body ressemble flesh. It would Ť resemble whatever race views him ť, but it would be black with tiny silverish dots in it. Closer in apperance to Eternity, the Marvel cosmic being, who incarnates space (and space is a vacuum, a void). Yeah, it lacks some originality, but I love the look :cool: .

On the stat side, I would say the Vacuum Elemental is incorporeal. I see it with two types of attack. It fists do disintegration damage or something resembling that effect. When it hits, flesh and matter evaporate into nothing. Xd6 damage. How many depending on its size.

The Void Elemental's second attack is a grapple attempt to engulf a creature no bigger then the Elemental. If the grapple is a success the grappled creature is suffocating (like drowning). Undead and creatures who do not need air are un affected.

A bit contradictory at first glance. Why can it disintegrate flesh, but when it engulfs someone the victim only suffocates. Maybe it can only disintegrate small amount of matter at a time.
goldomark
09-23-07, 12:03 PM This is a Planar Touchstone created for the plane of Vacuum.

Planar Touchstones were featured in the Planar Handbook. To use the Basic ability of the Touchstone, one must posses the Personal Touchstone feat (page 41).

To use the Higher-Order ability, one must go to the Touchstone's location and perform some special ritual. The only problem that I see, is the feat requires an object worth 250 gp, native to the plane in question. In the Void that can be a problem. It could easily be a purchased piece of a those worms native to the Void (I can remember the name :banghead: ).

The Pool of Oblivion

At the bottem of the plane of Vacuum, exist a bubbling pool of a tar like intangible smoky black liquid. Sages who heard of this pool and its affects call it the Pool of Oblivion. These sages theorize that the liquid in the pool is Emptyness or Nothingness, manifested in a material substance.

As said previously, the liquid in the pool is a very consitant liquid, smoky black. To the touch it is neither wet nor dry, cold or warm. In fact it has no weight or paticular feel. A explorer must have is eyes open to really know he is touching the fluid. The only property it seems to have, is to stick and cover anything it has been in contact with. Fortunately, the eerie substance can be easily removed and when a sample is taken away fom the pool itself, the inconceivable substance fades rapidly into nothingness.

No special feature are set around the pool, nothing indicating its presence. The bubbling pool, roughly twenty feet in diameter, can only be seen when someone is about one hundred feet from it. Never the less, the pool is easy to find. One only needs to look for it. A traveler to the plane of Vacuum, who really wants to find the Pool of Oblivion will stumble onto the pool within a few days of exploration.

Again, sages theorize that the pool is every where and no where within the Void. Finfing it is more a question of will then travelling in three dimensional space as we know it.

Location: The quasielemental plane of Vacuum, within 3d6 days of exploration with the specific intent of finding it. Of course some people do stumble onto it by accident, from time to time.

Initial and Subsequent Encounters: For some unknowed reason, the Pool of Oblivion attracts lots of Void Elementals. It is not knowed why. The Elementals do not need to eat and do not reproduce, they are Nothingness incarnate. Why so many of them congregate around the pool is unknowed. Travellers need to watch the Void Elementals. Around the pool most of them are not agressive if left undisturb, but from time to time one or more will attack travellers. Sages only speculate why these enigmatic creatures would do so.

For stats for these creatures just use the Shadow Elementals for Tome of Magic (page 164). Add the dices of damage they do, and make it look like they're touch disintegrate matter. Instead of Shadow Mastery, give them Void Mastery. Replace the Dusk and Dawn ability by the Asphyxiate ability (discust in my previous post under the Engulf ability). Maybe raise there CR by one.

Base Ability: Does not need to breathe anymore. He can survive underwater and is not affected by gases who are only effective when inhaled.

Recharge Conditions: A character must immerse himself completely into the Pool of Oblivion to gain its powers. However there is a risk of losing oneself into the pool and fade into nothingness.

Characters who immerse themself into the pool must make a DC 10 Will save or suffer the effet of a Disintegration spell cast at the 20th level (40d6 of damage, if HP fall below 0 the character is unterly destroyed and no traces of him can be found).

Higher-Order Ability: Once per day, a character can make a melee touch attack on a opponent to disintegrate it. If the attack is successful, the victim is entitle to a Fortitude save (DC 16+Cha modifier). Refer to the disintegration spell for results. The caster level of the disintegration is equal to the character level of the attacker.

Higher-Order Uses: 3

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
goldomark 09-21-07, 01:26 PM	Chris Perkins said that the plane of Vacuum is the antithesis of fun, when explaining why all the changes to the DnD cosmology. Yes its a (almost) empty space, hostile to life, but fun can happen there. So I was wounderring if anybody DMed or played in a adventure set in the plane of Vacuum or if anybody ever reflected on the plane. It needs alot of love, so lets share ideas to fill this Quasiplane. Here is some quick info on the place. I'm shure alot of people have more to say on it. The Quasielemental plane of Vacuum is located on the border of the Negative Energy plane and the Elemental plane of Air. It is a vast plane but ultimately with limited dimensions. As for myself, my adventuring party and I used it once. We though that it was a great place to hide from an Effret mad at use (because it was so hostile to life and empty, we thought that no one would look for us in the Void :rolleyes: ). Some worm, native to the plane of Vacuum, attacked us, so we had to flee. Hidding there was a good idea. But our DM wanted us on the run. So that is my story. Brief, but intense :D .
Shemeska the Marauder 09-21-07, 08:37 PM	Chris Perkins said that the plane of Vacuum is the antithesis of fun, when explaining wwhy all the cahnges to the DnD cosmology. It was an odd thing to say, given that the plane has a number of rather interesting creatures living (and thriving) there, a major fortress of a planar faction (Citadel Exhalus), and some planar mysteries (ie Sun Sing). Compounding the situation, many of those 2e things have actually appeared in 3.x books as well, so it's not like only people who played 2e might know about the things, persons, and locations that might make them want to go there in a campaign. For a place that's the antithesis of fun, it's odd then that they're included in the 3.x Planar Handbook (Citadel Exhalus and the Doomguard faction there), or in the Fiendish Codex I (Sun Sing and overt description of quasielemental vacuum as a border between Air and Negative Energy).
ArcTan 09-21-07, 11:22 PM	They retconned the Citadel Exhalus to being in the Negative Energy Plane in the 3.5 Planar Handbook. (Of course, you can retcon the retcon by saying that Vacuum is merely the border between Air and Negative Energy without being a plane of its own.) The main thing I don't like about Vacuum isn't just that, by definition, it's a big empty place where you suffocate. It's that it's one of those contradictory concepts for planes, where the border region between two planes is, for some reason, more lethal than either plane alone. You don't suffocate in the Negative Energy Plane. You die of negative energy, sure, but if you have death ward up, you're fine. Because apparently, the Negative Energy Plane has air you can breathe. Only in the place where Negative Energy and Air intersect is there a suffocation hazard... because, for some unknown reason, only Negative Energy + Air = a lack of air. It's kind of like asking why Negative Energy + Water = Salt (i.e. a lack of water), while Negative Energy + Earth = Dust (which is really just... fine-ground Earth, not a lack of Earth) or Negative Energy + Fire = Ash (which, while it's certainly not on fire, isn't exactly the lack of fire). I dunno. Maybe I'm just being pigheaded, but the Quasielemental Planes always seemed particularly arbitrary to me, and therefore annoying to stumble on in a game. I mean, it's not like I have any particularly strong ideas what "negative air" would be (that's really the problem), but the fact that two planes where you can breathe overlap into one plane where you can't just bugs me. The Paraelemental Planes are fairly obvious by comparison (with the exception of Ice, which seems weird to me -- if it were me I'd've made Ice = Negative + Water and Steam = Positive + Water, and Air + Water would be Mist or Fog or something). As far as WotC being a united front about the planes, they're not. The core designers for 4e clearly have different opinions than some of the writers contracted to work on specific books. I remember one of the Planar Handbook authors specifically saying that they did it to make it a "3.5 Planescape sourcebook", even though Manual of the Planes had specifically been trying to avoid that.
Shemeska the Marauder 09-21-07, 11:36 PM	They retconned the Citadel Exhalus to being in the Negative Energy Plane in the 3.5 Planar Handbook. (Of course, you can retcon the retcon by saying that Vacuum is merely the border between Air and Negative Energy without being a plane of its own.) The PlHB writers were pretty much just following the assumed design direction of the earlier planar material (that was forced to avoid naming anything not "core" to a fault). Thus they squeezed the Doomguard citadels into whatever they seemed to think fit in the absence of having the quasielemental planes mentioned (though they didn't always do a spot on job in naming the replacement locales). Later, without being shackled by those creative restrictions, the authors of FC:I went and openly talked about Sun Sing and Vacuum. FC:I retconned the retcon for me. ;) You don't suffocate in the Negative Energy Plane. You die of negative energy, sure, but if you have death ward up, you're fine. Because apparently, the Negative Energy Plane has air you can breathe. The Negative Energy Plane doesn't have air either (see The Inner Planes descrption of the hazards of the plane. Lack of anything to breath is listed among them.) Only in the place where Negative Energy and Air intersect is there a suffocation hazard... because, for some unknown reason, only Negative Energy + Air = a lack of air. All of the quasi-elemental planes were the effects of idealized entropy upon the respective elements, not necessarily the absolute lack of them. Water evaporates, furn burns down to ashes, earth becomes useless dust, and air is consumed till only the void remains. They all have some degree of whimsy in how they were decided, but they had some really wickedly cool things therein even if some funky logic went into their creation.
Kain Darkwind 09-21-07, 11:42 PM	They retconned the Citadel Exhalus to being in the Negative Energy Plane in the 3.5 Planar Handbook. (Of course, you can retcon the retcon by saying that Vacuum is merely the border between Air and Negative Energy without being a plane of its own.) The main thing I don't like about Vacuum isn't just that, by definition, it's a big empty place where you suffocate. It's that it's one of those contradictory concepts for planes, where the border region between two planes is, for some reason, more lethal than either plane alone. You don't suffocate in the Negative Energy Plane. You die of negative energy, sure, but if you have death ward up, you're fine. Because apparently, the Negative Energy Plane has air you can breathe. Only in the place where Negative Energy and Air intersect is there a suffocation hazard... because, for some unknown reason, only Negative Energy + Air = a lack of air. It's kind of like asking why Negative Energy + Water = Salt (i.e. a lack of water), while Negative Energy + Earth = Dust (which is really just... fine-ground Earth, not a lack of Earth) or Negative Energy + Fire = Ash (which, while it's certainly not on fire, isn't exactly the lack of fire). Ash para elementals drew off fire. I think they were trying to go for the idea of fire with the fire sucked out of it. Which I guess is ash. And i guess if you suck the water out of salt water you are left with salt. The neg-quasis don't make the most sense, I agree, but they are not bad. And even your problem with them makes much more sense than Perkins perceived issue. And I never felt the need to provide breathable air on any Inner plane other than Air. As far as WotC being a united front about the planes, they're not. The core designers for 4e clearly have different opinions than some of the writers contracted to work on specific books. I remember one of the Planar Handbook authors specifically saying that they did it to make it a "3.5 Planescape sourcebook", even though Manual of the Planes had specifically been trying to avoid that. Which makes me wonder how cohesive of a planar cosmos we'll get with this next edition.
ripvanwormer 09-21-07, 11:59 PM	The main thing I don't like about Vacuum Stop threadcrapping. This thread is about interesting things you've done with the Plane of Vacuum, not about how lame you think everything is. The original poster specifically asked for positive contributions. As my positive contribution to this thread, I offer my Plane of Vacuum webpage: http://geocities.com/ripvanwormer/vacuum.html
goldomark 09-22-07, 03:18 AM	Great info Rip. I love the different symbols or real phenomenons associated with the Void. A dying planet lossing its atmosphere, a assassin's strangle cord, fishes ashore belly up, an empty bowl, the color black, lead. The locations are great to, specialy the idea that some are the leftovers of absorb demiplanes or worlds. I would just critic the void elemental. I wouldn't make it's body ressemble flesh. It would Ť resemble whatever race views him ť, but it would be black with tiny silverish dots in it. Closer in apperance to Eternity, the Marvel cosmic being, who incarnates space (and space is a vacuum, a void). Yeah, it lacks some originality, but I love the look :cool: . On the stat side, I would say the Vacuum Elemental is incorporeal. I see it with two types of attack. It fists do disintegration damage or something resembling that effect. When it hits, flesh and matter evaporate into nothing. Xd6 damage. How many depending on its size. The Void Elemental's second attack is a grapple attempt to engulf a creature no bigger then the Elemental. If the grapple is a success the grappled creature is suffocating (like drowning). Undead and creatures who do not need air are un affected. A bit contradictory at first glance. Why can it disintegrate flesh, but when it engulfs someone the victim only suffocates. Maybe it can only disintegrate small amount of matter at a time.
goldomark 09-23-07, 12:03 PM	This is a Planar Touchstone created for the plane of Vacuum. Planar Touchstones were featured in the Planar Handbook. To use the Basic ability of the Touchstone, one must posses the Personal Touchstone feat (page 41). To use the Higher-Order ability, one must go to the Touchstone's location and perform some special ritual. The only problem that I see, is the feat requires an object worth 250 gp, native to the plane in question. In the Void that can be a problem. It could easily be a purchased piece of a those worms native to the Void (I can remember the name :banghead: ). The Pool of Oblivion At the bottem of the plane of Vacuum, exist a bubbling pool of a tar like intangible smoky black liquid. Sages who heard of this pool and its affects call it the Pool of Oblivion. These sages theorize that the liquid in the pool is Emptyness or Nothingness, manifested in a material substance. As said previously, the liquid in the pool is a very consitant liquid, smoky black. To the touch it is neither wet nor dry, cold or warm. In fact it has no weight or paticular feel. A explorer must have is eyes open to really know he is touching the fluid. The only property it seems to have, is to stick and cover anything it has been in contact with. Fortunately, the eerie substance can be easily removed and when a sample is taken away fom the pool itself, the inconceivable substance fades rapidly into nothingness. No special feature are set around the pool, nothing indicating its presence. The bubbling pool, roughly twenty feet in diameter, can only be seen when someone is about one hundred feet from it. Never the less, the pool is easy to find. One only needs to look for it. A traveler to the plane of Vacuum, who really wants to find the Pool of Oblivion will stumble onto the pool within a few days of exploration. Again, sages theorize that the pool is every where and no where within the Void. Finfing it is more a question of will then travelling in three dimensional space as we know it. Location: The quasielemental plane of Vacuum, within 3d6 days of exploration with the specific intent of finding it. Of course some people do stumble onto it by accident, from time to time. Initial and Subsequent Encounters: For some unknowed reason, the Pool of Oblivion attracts lots of Void Elementals. It is not knowed why. The Elementals do not need to eat and do not reproduce, they are Nothingness incarnate. Why so many of them congregate around the pool is unknowed. Travellers need to watch the Void Elementals. Around the pool most of them are not agressive if left undisturb, but from time to time one or more will attack travellers. Sages only speculate why these enigmatic creatures would do so. For stats for these creatures just use the Shadow Elementals for Tome of Magic (page 164). Add the dices of damage they do, and make it look like they're touch disintegrate matter. Instead of Shadow Mastery, give them Void Mastery. Replace the Dusk and Dawn ability by the Asphyxiate ability (discust in my previous post under the Engulf ability). Maybe raise there CR by one. Base Ability: Does not need to breathe anymore. He can survive underwater and is not affected by gases who are only effective when inhaled. Recharge Conditions: A character must immerse himself completely into the Pool of Oblivion to gain its powers. However there is a risk of losing oneself into the pool and fade into nothingness. Characters who immerse themself into the pool must make a DC 10 Will save or suffer the effet of a Disintegration spell cast at the 20th level (40d6 of damage, if HP fall below 0 the character is unterly destroyed and no traces of him can be found). Higher-Order Ability: Once per day, a character can make a melee touch attack on a opponent to disintegrate it. If the attack is successful, the victim is entitle to a Fortitude save (DC 16+Cha modifier). Refer to the disintegration spell for results. The caster level of the disintegration is equal to the character level of the attacker. Higher-Order Uses: 3