Forgetfulness in the Eternal City [Archive] - Wizards Community

Forgetfulness in the Eternal City [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sciborg3
03-30-08, 11:25 AM Is it just me or does no one have a clue what happened in Sigil past 700 years ago if that? As a stable point in the cosmos that is relatively open, shouldn't some records exist of those Ages before Time?
Eldritch_Lord
03-30-08, 12:12 PM Is it just me or does no one have a clue what happened in Sigil past 700 years ago if that? As a stable point in the cosmos that is relatively open, shouldn't some records exist of those Ages before Time?

You're assuming that the Powers That Be want whatever happened before that to be known. If, say, the Lady of Pain didn't want something that happened 706 years ago to be known, bye-bye anyone who knows it and any instance of record.
turalisj
03-30-08, 01:11 PM Is it just me or does no one have a clue what happened in Sigil past 700 years ago if that? As a stable point in the cosmos that is relatively open, shouldn't some records exist of those Ages before Time?

It's like when something traumatic happens to a person and they just block out the memory.
sciborg3
03-30-08, 02:19 PM What are you suggesting happened? :eek: :confused: :weep:
Eldritch_Lord
03-30-08, 02:48 PM What are you suggesting happened? :eek: :confused: :weep:

That's the point--Her Serenity doesn't want us to know....:shifty:
turalisj
03-30-08, 03:22 PM She decided to celebrate her birthday... ;)
ripvanwormer
03-30-08, 06:34 PM Is it just me or does no one have a clue what happened in Sigil past 700 years ago if that?

I think it's just you. There are a number of Sigilian dates in canon that are older than that. For example, the Expansionist factol Vartus Timlin was mazed 1000 years ago, and the wizard Shekelor died 10,000 years ago. The founding of the Fraternity of Order about 900 years ago is clearly documented in that faction's records, and even the time of the "much more ancient wizard" whose soul Shekelor was seeking has left records readable in the present day (excerpted in Faction War).

I think what you're identifying is just that Sigilian history isn't that detailed in canon compared to, for example, the history of the Forgotten Realms. While the three major Sigil-centered sourcebooks (Uncaged, In the Cage, The Factol's Manifesto) and various adventures make Sigil one of the most detailed cities in D&D in some ways (not as detailed as Waterdeep, I think), most of what's been done by TSR/WotC pertains to the present day rather than the distant past. What has been done, however, indicates a very long continuity of records with no substantial break even in the chaos of the Great Upheaval and similar calamities.

Exactly when the Age Before Ages was has been left deliberately unclear by Paizo/WotC. There were inevitables fighting at the Battle of Pesh, and inevitables are only 10,000 years old according to Dragon #341, so perhaps it was less than 10,000 years ago. If so, records from that era certainly survive in the Cage. I think the Age Before Ages was rather more distant than that, personally, closer to the scale of the million-year history of the demon lord Turaglas. The destruction of the aphanacts who preceded the inevitables was blamed on the archons and baatezu, and I think the fall of Asmodeus was after Pesh, so this was almost certainly after that battle.

That said, there's no reason the Lady of Pain couldn't be blamed for some interesting amnesia effect a la the movie Dark City. Perhaps the true history of Sigil is completely different from what the records say it is. Perhaps she has done this as recently as yesterday, or five seconds ago. Perhaps in another five seconds, she will change the city's memories again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sciborg3 03-30-08, 11:25 AM	Is it just me or does no one have a clue what happened in Sigil past 700 years ago if that? As a stable point in the cosmos that is relatively open, shouldn't some records exist of those Ages before Time?
Eldritch_Lord 03-30-08, 12:12 PM	Is it just me or does no one have a clue what happened in Sigil past 700 years ago if that? As a stable point in the cosmos that is relatively open, shouldn't some records exist of those Ages before Time? You're assuming that the Powers That Be want whatever happened before that to be known. If, say, the Lady of Pain didn't want something that happened 706 years ago to be known, bye-bye anyone who knows it and any instance of record.
turalisj 03-30-08, 01:11 PM	Is it just me or does no one have a clue what happened in Sigil past 700 years ago if that? As a stable point in the cosmos that is relatively open, shouldn't some records exist of those Ages before Time? It's like when something traumatic happens to a person and they just block out the memory.
sciborg3 03-30-08, 02:19 PM	What are you suggesting happened? :eek: :confused: :weep:
Eldritch_Lord 03-30-08, 02:48 PM	What are you suggesting happened? :eek: :confused: :weep: That's the point--Her Serenity doesn't want us to know....:shifty:
turalisj 03-30-08, 03:22 PM	She decided to celebrate her birthday... ;)
ripvanwormer 03-30-08, 06:34 PM	Is it just me or does no one have a clue what happened in Sigil past 700 years ago if that? I think it's just you. There are a number of Sigilian dates in canon that are older than that. For example, the Expansionist factol Vartus Timlin was mazed 1000 years ago, and the wizard Shekelor died 10,000 years ago. The founding of the Fraternity of Order about 900 years ago is clearly documented in that faction's records, and even the time of the "much more ancient wizard" whose soul Shekelor was seeking has left records readable in the present day (excerpted in Faction War). I think what you're identifying is just that Sigilian history isn't that detailed in canon compared to, for example, the history of the Forgotten Realms. While the three major Sigil-centered sourcebooks (Uncaged, In the Cage, The Factol's Manifesto) and various adventures make Sigil one of the most detailed cities in D&D in some ways (not as detailed as Waterdeep, I think), most of what's been done by TSR/WotC pertains to the present day rather than the distant past. What has been done, however, indicates a very long continuity of records with no substantial break even in the chaos of the Great Upheaval and similar calamities. Exactly when the Age Before Ages was has been left deliberately unclear by Paizo/WotC. There were inevitables fighting at the Battle of Pesh, and inevitables are only 10,000 years old according to Dragon #341, so perhaps it was less than 10,000 years ago. If so, records from that era certainly survive in the Cage. I think the Age Before Ages was rather more distant than that, personally, closer to the scale of the million-year history of the demon lord Turaglas. The destruction of the aphanacts who preceded the inevitables was blamed on the archons and baatezu, and I think the fall of Asmodeus was after Pesh, so this was almost certainly after that battle. That said, there's no reason the Lady of Pain couldn't be blamed for some interesting amnesia effect a la the movie Dark City. Perhaps the true history of Sigil is completely different from what the records say it is. Perhaps she has done this as recently as yesterday, or five seconds ago. Perhaps in another five seconds, she will change the city's memories again.