Giving a PC Divine Level Zero [Archive] - Wizards Community

Giving a PC Divine Level Zero [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rodimal
09-20-07, 03:28 AM Is there a specific template for adding Divine Level 0 to a PC or NPC (in this case a Human Fighter20/Monk20)? I know it's basically up to the DM on who becomes a Deity, but I'm not sure on the abilities and hit dice and such that go with it.

Out
hovnarr
09-20-07, 10:54 AM The SRD is your friend: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineRanksPowers.htm

Basically, SR 32, full hp/HD and DR 10/-epic plus a few immunities.
Eater_Of_Souls
09-20-07, 11:37 AM The SRD is your friend: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineRanksPowers.htm

Basically, SR 32, full hp/HD and DR 10/-epic plus a few immunities.

+ Deity specific divine powers that instagib any character without divine ranks... :P

I love "alter reality" -> you're breathing acid now .. oops ..
SilentOne
09-20-07, 11:46 AM Except that DivR 0 doesn't grant any salient abilities... you get 1 per divine rank, +a number based on your diety ranking. Demigods don't get any bonus abilities.

Salient Divine Abilities

Every deity of rank 1 or higher has at least one additional power, called a salient divine ability, per divine rank (see Salient Divine Abilities).
ShotgunSaint
09-21-07, 03:06 PM I've run campaigns with demigod PC's before... and let me tell you, even if you think you're ready... you aren't. At least go use the rules from the dicefreaks discussion boards (don't have the link on me). They're much more balanced, and they give a level adjustment for Divine Rank 0, which, if memory serves, is somewhere along the lines of +20.
awaken_D_M_golem
09-21-07, 05:24 PM The epic boards reached a concensus that Divine Rank Zero was equal to ~+6 LA.
But that was on a 20th level character.
If you are starting a level 1, it wouldn't be worth as much.
Throw in LA buy-off and you might reach level 20 without any adjustment.
Fun.
hovnarr
09-22-07, 10:52 AM If you are starting a level 1, it wouldn't be worth as much.

That doesn't make sense. When is DR 10/epic and a flat SR of 32 most powerful, at level 1 or at level 20? At level 1, you're basically immune to most bad things that could happen to you up, with significant mitigation remaining up to the mid levels. At level 20, everybody and his brother can have DR 10 and SR 32, and laugh at the geezers that still take full damage from blows and let opponents use magic that allows SR.
awaken_D_M_golem
09-27-07, 06:15 PM hmm ... well, right off hand a DvR 0 gets max hp per die.
And a 1st level character already gets max hp for its 1st die.

I'll check my book. It's not something I meditate on everyday.

from d20srd.org

"Most deities (all those with 20 outsider Hit Dice) have a natural armor bonus of their divine rank +13."

- Can't be done til 20th level, but not mandatory.

"All deities also have a deflection bonus to their AC equal to their Charisma bonus (if any)."

- Character may increase Cha level to level, but not mandatory.

The extra speed from being a quadruped, isn't really available until Polymorph, but it's not mandatory.

Altogether, I'm not sure at all what the LA would be.
A Commoner 1 with DvR 0 would be a bit of a challenge due to the DR 10/epic.
:plotting:
Kyuketsukiouji
09-29-07, 03:26 PM If the PC is a DR 0 Deity, I'd also give him the divine stat array (40,28, 25, 24, 24, 24)
The_Cheeseman
10-05-07, 10:25 PM From the Deities and Demigods FAQ:

Q) If I’m making my own deities, how do I determine what ability scores, Hit Dice, skills, feats, domains, portfolios, and salient abilities each deity should receive?

A) You can determine these mostly by assigning them, just as you would with any other new creature or NPC.
Deities receive skills and feats according to their outsider Hit Dice and class levels, just as a monster with a class does. Most of the deities in Deities and Demigods started out as 13- HD outsiders; the designers used the titan from the Monster Manual as a starting point and worked from there.
Domains, portfolios, and salient abilities, along with the methods for assigning them, are discussed in Chapter 2 of Deities and Demigods.
All the deities in Deities and Demigods have a standard array of ability scores (similar to the standard array for NPCs in Chapter 2 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide). The standard array is 35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24. To this standard divine array, the Deities and Demigods designers added +1 for every 4 class levels a deity had and +1 for every point of divine rank. Certain deities also received racial ability adjustments for the races they created or rule over. For example, Corellon Larethian received elf racial adjustments.
All the deities in the book have ability scores generated this way, including the ones that are (or are reputed to be) ascended mortals. If you include divine ascension in your game and you want to use the standard divine array, you can require these scores before ascension (the Epic Level Handbook offers some ideas and information on how characters can acquire these high scores), or you can just give the characters the scores as a benefit of ascension. Of course, there’s no reason for you to give your deities any ability scores except the ones you think they should have.

From the D&D 3.5 Deities and Demigods update booklet:

Quasi-deity Traits: Immune to transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects; damage reduction 10/epic; fire resistance 5; spell resistance 32; immortal (do not age, and do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe).

All of the quasi-deity creatures listed in the book also use the speeds listed for deities of the appropriate type.

However, it seems that none of the quasi-deity creatures listed in the book had maximum HP per Hit Die.

I'd say the easiest comparison would be with the lich template. It grants all the same immunities, plus cold, electricity, poison, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, critical hits, nonlethal damage, fatigue, exhaustion, and anything that requires a Fort save that doesn't affect objects.

The lich template also grants immortality, plus the phylactery makes you almost unkillable.

Liches have DR 15/magic and bludgeoning, which I'd say is close to as good as 10/epic (higher reduction amount, and still effective against most attacks).

Liches have no form of spell resistance, but they get darkvision 60 ft., a natural touch attack (1d8+5 negative energy, Will 1/2), a fear aura, paralyzing touch, +2 to Int/Wis/Cha, and +8 to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks.

I'd rather be a lich, personally. However, lich requires a minimum of level 11, so I can't say what LA it would have at under level 10 (personally, I wouldn't be comfortable giving characters under level 10 powers like these, anyway). Overall, I'd say that DvR 0 is probably worth about a +3 to +4 LA, assuming it is a character of level 10+. Before level 10, the template probably isn't going to work well, and would require more LA then its worth, creating a character with too few HD and ineffective attacks.

***EDIT***
It occurs to me that you could simply make the character an Einherjar, as long as they are good-aligned. The template is listed in the Deities and Demigods 3.5 update booklet, though I'll reproduce it here.

EINHERJAR
Treat “einherjar” as an acquired template that can be applied to any humanoid creature of good alignment that has at least 10 levels of barbarian, fighter, ranger, or paladin. An einherjar uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Divine Rank: Einherjar are quasi-deities, with a divine rank of 0.
Size and Type: Size remains unchanged. The creature’s type changes to outsider with the good subtype and it gains the extraplanar subtype if it visits the Material Plane.
Speed: The base creature’s base land speed increases by 30 feet.
Special Qualities: The base creature gains certain traits by virtue of its divine rank:
Quasi-Deity Traits: Immune to transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects; damage reduction 10/epic; fire resistance 5; spell resistance 32; immortal.

As stated above, I'd probably give this template a +4 level adjustment.
Kyuketsukiouji
10-06-07, 08:21 AM All the deities in Deities and Demigods have a standard array of ability scores (similar to the standard array for NPCs in Chapter 2 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide). The standard array is 35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24. To this standard divine array, the Deities and Demigods designers added +1 for every 4 class levels a deity had and +1 for every point of divine rank. Certain deities also received racial ability adjustments for the races they created or rule over. For example, Corellon Larethian received elf racial adjustments.
All the deities in the book have ability scores generated this way, including the ones that are (or are reputed to be) ascended mortals.

That doesn't make much sense in light of gods like Erbin, who start with a 40 in dex when they're DR 0/Level 1, unless it's assumed he has a tome.
Radiant_Phoenix
10-08-07, 01:21 PM What if you took a modified version of DR0, removing the Damage Reduction and Spell Resistance, What would you consider the LA then?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rodimal 09-20-07, 03:28 AM	Is there a specific template for adding Divine Level 0 to a PC or NPC (in this case a Human Fighter20/Monk20)? I know it's basically up to the DM on who becomes a Deity, but I'm not sure on the abilities and hit dice and such that go with it. Out
hovnarr 09-20-07, 10:54 AM	The SRD is your friend: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineRanksPowers.htm Basically, SR 32, full hp/HD and DR 10/-epic plus a few immunities.
Eater_Of_Souls 09-20-07, 11:37 AM	The SRD is your friend: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineRanksPowers.htm Basically, SR 32, full hp/HD and DR 10/-epic plus a few immunities. + Deity specific divine powers that instagib any character without divine ranks... :P I love "alter reality" -> you're breathing acid now .. oops ..
SilentOne 09-20-07, 11:46 AM	Except that DivR 0 doesn't grant any salient abilities... you get 1 per divine rank, +a number based on your diety ranking. Demigods don't get any bonus abilities. Salient Divine Abilities Every deity of rank 1 or higher has at least one additional power, called a salient divine ability, per divine rank (see Salient Divine Abilities).
ShotgunSaint 09-21-07, 03:06 PM	I've run campaigns with demigod PC's before... and let me tell you, even if you think you're ready... you aren't. At least go use the rules from the dicefreaks discussion boards (don't have the link on me). They're much more balanced, and they give a level adjustment for Divine Rank 0, which, if memory serves, is somewhere along the lines of +20.
awaken_D_M_golem 09-21-07, 05:24 PM	The epic boards reached a concensus that Divine Rank Zero was equal to ~+6 LA. But that was on a 20th level character. If you are starting a level 1, it wouldn't be worth as much. Throw in LA buy-off and you might reach level 20 without any adjustment. Fun.
hovnarr 09-22-07, 10:52 AM	If you are starting a level 1, it wouldn't be worth as much. That doesn't make sense. When is DR 10/epic and a flat SR of 32 most powerful, at level 1 or at level 20? At level 1, you're basically immune to most bad things that could happen to you up, with significant mitigation remaining up to the mid levels. At level 20, everybody and his brother can have DR 10 and SR 32, and laugh at the geezers that still take full damage from blows and let opponents use magic that allows SR.
awaken_D_M_golem 09-27-07, 06:15 PM	hmm ... well, right off hand a DvR 0 gets max hp per die. And a 1st level character already gets max hp for its 1st die. I'll check my book. It's not something I meditate on everyday. from d20srd.org "Most deities (all those with 20 outsider Hit Dice) have a natural armor bonus of their divine rank +13." - Can't be done til 20th level, but not mandatory. "All deities also have a deflection bonus to their AC equal to their Charisma bonus (if any)." - Character may increase Cha level to level, but not mandatory. The extra speed from being a quadruped, isn't really available until Polymorph, but it's not mandatory. Altogether, I'm not sure at all what the LA would be. A Commoner 1 with DvR 0 would be a bit of a challenge due to the DR 10/epic. :plotting:
Kyuketsukiouji 09-29-07, 03:26 PM	If the PC is a DR 0 Deity, I'd also give him the divine stat array (40,28, 25, 24, 24, 24)
The_Cheeseman 10-05-07, 10:25 PM	From the Deities and Demigods FAQ: Q) If I’m making my own deities, how do I determine what ability scores, Hit Dice, skills, feats, domains, portfolios, and salient abilities each deity should receive? A) You can determine these mostly by assigning them, just as you would with any other new creature or NPC. Deities receive skills and feats according to their outsider Hit Dice and class levels, just as a monster with a class does. Most of the deities in Deities and Demigods started out as 13- HD outsiders; the designers used the titan from the Monster Manual as a starting point and worked from there. Domains, portfolios, and salient abilities, along with the methods for assigning them, are discussed in Chapter 2 of Deities and Demigods. All the deities in Deities and Demigods have a standard array of ability scores (similar to the standard array for NPCs in Chapter 2 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide). The standard array is 35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24. To this standard divine array, the Deities and Demigods designers added +1 for every 4 class levels a deity had and +1 for every point of divine rank. Certain deities also received racial ability adjustments for the races they created or rule over. For example, Corellon Larethian received elf racial adjustments. All the deities in the book have ability scores generated this way, including the ones that are (or are reputed to be) ascended mortals. If you include divine ascension in your game and you want to use the standard divine array, you can require these scores before ascension (the Epic Level Handbook offers some ideas and information on how characters can acquire these high scores), or you can just give the characters the scores as a benefit of ascension. Of course, there’s no reason for you to give your deities any ability scores except the ones you think they should have. From the D&D 3.5 Deities and Demigods update booklet: Quasi-deity Traits: Immune to transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects; damage reduction 10/epic; fire resistance 5; spell resistance 32; immortal (do not age, and do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe). All of the quasi-deity creatures listed in the book also use the speeds listed for deities of the appropriate type. However, it seems that none of the quasi-deity creatures listed in the book had maximum HP per Hit Die. I'd say the easiest comparison would be with the lich template. It grants all the same immunities, plus cold, electricity, poison, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, critical hits, nonlethal damage, fatigue, exhaustion, and anything that requires a Fort save that doesn't affect objects. The lich template also grants immortality, plus the phylactery makes you almost unkillable. Liches have DR 15/magic and bludgeoning, which I'd say is close to as good as 10/epic (higher reduction amount, and still effective against most attacks). Liches have no form of spell resistance, but they get darkvision 60 ft., a natural touch attack (1d8+5 negative energy, Will 1/2), a fear aura, paralyzing touch, +2 to Int/Wis/Cha, and +8 to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks. I'd rather be a lich, personally. However, lich requires a minimum of level 11, so I can't say what LA it would have at under level 10 (personally, I wouldn't be comfortable giving characters under level 10 powers like these, anyway). Overall, I'd say that DvR 0 is probably worth about a +3 to +4 LA, assuming it is a character of level 10+. Before level 10, the template probably isn't going to work well, and would require more LA then its worth, creating a character with too few HD and ineffective attacks. *EDIT* It occurs to me that you could simply make the character an Einherjar, as long as they are good-aligned. The template is listed in the Deities and Demigods 3.5 update booklet, though I'll reproduce it here. EINHERJAR Treat “einherjar” as an acquired template that can be applied to any humanoid creature of good alignment that has at least 10 levels of barbarian, fighter, ranger, or paladin. An einherjar uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Divine Rank: Einherjar are quasi-deities, with a divine rank of 0. Size and Type: Size remains unchanged. The creature’s type changes to outsider with the good subtype and it gains the extraplanar subtype if it visits the Material Plane. Speed: The base creature’s base land speed increases by 30 feet. Special Qualities: The base creature gains certain traits by virtue of its divine rank: Quasi-Deity Traits: Immune to transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects; damage reduction 10/epic; fire resistance 5; spell resistance 32; immortal. As stated above, I'd probably give this template a +4 level adjustment.
Kyuketsukiouji 10-06-07, 08:21 AM	All the deities in Deities and Demigods have a standard array of ability scores (similar to the standard array for NPCs in Chapter 2 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide). The standard array is 35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24. To this standard divine array, the Deities and Demigods designers added +1 for every 4 class levels a deity had and +1 for every point of divine rank. Certain deities also received racial ability adjustments for the races they created or rule over. For example, Corellon Larethian received elf racial adjustments. All the deities in the book have ability scores generated this way, including the ones that are (or are reputed to be) ascended mortals. That doesn't make much sense in light of gods like Erbin, who start with a 40 in dex when they're DR 0/Level 1, unless it's assumed he has a tome.
Radiant_Phoenix 10-08-07, 01:21 PM	What if you took a modified version of DR0, removing the Damage Reduction and Spell Resistance, What would you consider the LA then?