Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ClericGod2748 01-20-08, 10:05 PM	I am an epic level character looking for a way to kill a god and steal his power, can anyone inform me on how I would go about doing that?
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-21-08, 10:22 AM	Unless you're ridiculously high level, I'd suggest using a plot device.
Mr_Seth 01-22-08, 11:52 AM	Become a kobold divine minion. >_>
faghter_hero 01-24-08, 02:19 PM	Release Pandorym. Hilarity ensues. Oh, my mistake, you wanted to be around to take the power later.
M-bark 01-29-08, 03:00 AM	Become a kobold divine minion. >_> Second'd. Of course, you should be wary of this choice, as you could potentially destroy a whole demiplane or more by delivering that one fatal blow.
turalisj 01-29-08, 07:34 AM	See, anyone who kills a god ends up incuring the wrath of every one of the pantheon's other gods. Every. Single. One.
CryoSilver 01-29-08, 12:04 PM	Unless you slay the god that no one else likes, in which case they're more likely to say "Oh, well he was a douche anyways. Welcome to the family." What? You think gods don't play favorites?
Count Arioch the 28th 01-29-08, 01:32 PM	The idea of Gods being unkillable is purely a judeo-christian bias. Many mythologies had heroes fighting and slaying gods. (It happened practically every paragraph in Japanese mythology.) That being said, it all depends on how powerful the DM has decided gods are.
Lord Karsus 01-29-08, 04:30 PM	I am an epic level character looking for a way to kill a god and steal his power, can anyone inform me on how I would go about doing that? -Why don't you ask the DM, because I know if a player began planning a way to kill a deity and usurp his/her power without declaring his/her intentions to me at some point before hand, I'd be a little angry.
CryoSilver 01-29-08, 04:58 PM	That being said, it all depends on how powerful the DM has decided gods are. Or even how one defines "god." The term "god"can mean anything form capital-G God to just a relatively powerful spirit (God of this village, god of the lake, etc).
turalisj 01-29-08, 06:34 PM	Which was just about every japanese god. (a powerfull spirit) Gods in european/mideast religeons could only be killed by other gods. Even then, death wasn't a sure thing. I can't point ot every litle deatil, but I know there was an example in bothe Norse and Egyptian mythos where a god died then came back stronger than before. (although in norse myth giants were just as strong/stronger then gods.)
KruniacZio 01-30-08, 02:58 AM	My Beholder character just got pawned by Grummsh. You do not kill gods. You harass their avatars, maybe. You do not kill gods. They always win initiative, always critical hit (or at the very least always roll 20s for you undead out there), they always maximize their rolls, and they always make their saving throws. As a mortal, you do not kill gods. Become a demi-god, its much easier.
Jere_RB 01-30-08, 04:20 AM	Lemme break it down for you: Gods have, as base, 20 outsider hit-dice and anywhere between 30-40 class levels along with all associated ranks, feats, and abilities of those hit-dice/class levels. Gods have Divine Rank, symbolizing how strong that diety is in its pantheon. Lesser dieties are just immortal. Intermediate dieties always succeed on *any* roll they make. Greater dieties always roll MAX. Not Pretty. Gods have Salient Divine Abilities. They are, to put it bluntly, uber-feats (always win initiative, kill any mortal in sight, mass destruction, mass life/death, etc). They generally go along with whatever the gods portfolio is. They have one Salient Divine Ability per Divine Rank. So the lessers have around 7 or so, intermediate 12 or so, and the greater 15+. For example, Moradin has Divine Rank of 19, highest in the core pantheon. That means that little dwarf-god *expletive* has nineteen super-duper, kick-your-butt and call your momma feats. Oh, and that god is absolutely *going* to be on his home plane. That place that moves/changes at his slightest whim and that is packed like a sardine can with allies that have CRs high enough to make your nose bleed. And, if you so much as *think* about pointing that little stick you call a sword in his general direction, he'll know about it. A week ahead of time. Probably more. Like twenty. So, in short... No, you are not going to kill a god. Not yours. buuuuttt.... If you absolutely *have* to try, here's what you do: First, you have to circumvent his allies. All of them. You can't teleport through them, you can't plane shift, and you can't just go *pop* and say you're there. Find something else. Fight 'em. Bluff 'em. Sneak 'em. Anything goes, whatever works. The downside is that, if you screw up...well, that sardine can of solar opens up real pretty. Not fun. Second, catch him by surprise. Do *nothing* that falls under his portfolio. *Never* mention his name. He can sense anything and everything that pertains to his portfolio weeks in advance. He hears every mention of his name in the same time-frame. Easy way to work around this is to come up with a code-word for that god, communicate it non-verbally to your allies/compatriots, and go with that. For example, Moradin is now called Jethro Tull. You yell, scream, and curse the name of Jethro Tull, plot his demise, and parade your intentions up and down the street. But, in your mind, you're thinking about the big dwarf guy with the hammer, not the rockstar guy. Nobody else gets it. You do. It works. Third, circumvent his divine abilities. You're not going to kill a guy that can either kill you or turn you into Fido and make you like it. And you will. This falls, unfortunately, under the realm of DM fiat. Artifacts, spells ludicrously crafted to make you immune to that one god's spells and abilities...on a friday...in may...while you have a chicken on your head...and are wearing a pink tu-to (hey, anything to get those epic DCs down, right?), and all the munchkinny cheese you can muster on the tip of a breadstick, you'll need that and more to get around his ability to say, "hey, you're dead" and mean it just because he had mexican that day. Finally, if you *really* want to do it, if you *really* want to take the guy down a peg and make your chances as good as they're going to be, go after his power-base. Everything in his portfolio, everything he has a domain for, his worshippers, his clergy, *everything*. If it's Moradin, kill all the dwarves, all the stoneworkers, and all the generally lawful/good people you can find. Nerull, *don't* kill anything, destroy undead, and be the bestest cult-killing exterminator the king has ever seen. And do this world-wide. For other gods, the same thing applies. If they aren't worshipped, if what they represent no longer means anything to people, they just die. Easy as that. Well, not really, but it sounds nice, no? So there you go. Now go pick a fight with Thor. He needs target practice.
PrinceOfTheVoid 01-30-08, 09:17 AM	I'm telling you: use my Godslayer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=925446) class. Forget about killing a single god; go for the whole pantheon.
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-30-08, 10:23 AM	I'm telling you: use my Godslayer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=925446) class. Forget about killing a single god; go for the whole pantheon. Still needs the DM. And if the DM's given you the OK to go kill divinities, why waste levels when there's probably some perfectly good artifacts laying around?
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 11:26 AM	My Beholder character just got pawned by Grummsh. You do not kill gods. You harass their avatars, maybe. You do not kill gods. They always win initiative, always critical hit (or at the very least always roll 20s for you undead out there), they always maximize their rolls, and they always make their saving throws. As a mortal, you do not kill gods. Become a demi-god, its much easier. -There's DMs who allow anything/everything, including killing deities.
Kursk 02-01-08, 06:06 PM	The idea of Gods being unkillable is purely a judeo-christian bias. Really? The ancient Greeks were judeo-Christian?
Crebain 02-01-08, 06:45 PM	If yu can find a diety dependant upon faith to provide his power you could possibly kill all his followers thus weakening him as well as enraging him enough for him to appear in some sort of mortal form in which you could kill him.
turalisj 02-01-08, 09:30 PM	Really? The ancient Greeks were judeo-Christian? Apparently. And so were the egyptian gods (only other gods could kill gods). And so were the Mesopatamian gods...
Sorcen_Anenooata 02-02-08, 09:52 AM	Personally in my campaigns I have specific items that have the godkiller ability. They're specially crafted to kill gods, the ancient texts say the way to do this is to forge the blood of a god into your weapon but it has not been proven. Sorcen, my namesake character/ruler of hell, is in possession of the godkilling dagger. He uses it in his quest for theothanatos, death of the gods. He usually places the dagger in the hands of lowly soldiers and attacks the god he is after on its homeplane with an army, he then distracts the god by physically engaging them while the dagger carrier delivers the death blow to the god. The dagger also drains and stores the lifeforce and souls of the gods it kills so as to prevent resurrection.
Tequila_Sunrise 02-02-08, 07:47 PM	Step 1: Open up a new browser window. Step 2: Go to and log into your favored email site. Step 3: Enter your DM's address in the address field. Step 4: Enter this exact same question in the body field. Step 5: Press SEND. Results: 1. If the responding email reads "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!", you won't be killing any gods in this campaign. Either live with it, or find another. 2. If the responding email has any other response, play really smart and cross every finger you can.
faghter_hero 02-02-08, 11:06 PM	See, anyone who kills a god ends up incuring the wrath of every one of the pantheon's other gods. Every. Single. One. That's why it's best to kill them all at once.
turalisj 02-03-08, 12:00 AM	Lol, good luck with that part. I imagine it would be hard enough killing one god. Killing a whole pantheon (which, if you have an egyptian style pantheon, will number in the hundreds) will be impossible even with several major artifects.
faghter_hero 02-03-08, 06:50 PM	Lol, good luck with that part. I imagine it would be hard enough killing one god. Killing a whole pantheon (which, if you have an egyptian style pantheon, will number in the hundreds) will be impossible even with several major artifects. It's possible. Pick up Elder Evils and take a good look at chapter 6.
Eldritch_Lord 02-03-08, 08:45 PM	It's possible. Pick up Elder Evils and take a good look at chapter 6. Do you have a vague synopsis for those of us without EE?
Count Arioch the 28th 02-03-08, 09:16 PM	Apparently. And so were the egyptian gods (only other gods could kill gods). And so were the Mesopatamian gods... And yet you ignore japanese, chinese, and indian mythology where people were capable of killing gods.
turalisj 02-03-08, 10:23 PM	Which brings up the issue- is your campaign eastern or western based in it's mythos? If eastern, then god killing is more then acceptable.
faghter_hero 02-04-08, 09:37 AM	Do you have a vague synopsis for those of us without EE? An ancient civilization was consumed with D&D hubris or something close to it. They decided to contract a being "at right angles to reality" into destroying all their enemy gods, and it was really, really capable. Think of it as a living psionically charged Sphere of Annihilation that could consume divine material. The ancients called it "Pandorym," possibly a reference to Pandora or Pandora's infamous box. Anyway, Pandorym was so powerful that all the gods stepped in and imprisoned the thing's mind and body separately before it could completely enter the world, leaving it trapped in two crystalline prisons made of thick prismatic walls. Then, like good deities, they slaughtered the entire civilization that tried to summon Pandorym, leaving nothing behind but dust and bad memories. The crystals holding Pandorym still remain somewhere underground. If someone were to shatter one of them, releasing the mind or the body, it would quickly break its other half free, and the gods might not be fast enough to stop it this time. Once united, it would carry out its mission to destroy all divine beings, then return to whence it came. According to EE, this would also destroy the entire campaign world in the process.
Eldritch_Lord 02-04-08, 06:17 PM	An ancient civilization was consumed with D&D hubris or something close to it. They decided to contract a being "at right angles to reality" into destroying all their enemy gods, and it was really, really capable. Think of it as a living psionically charged Sphere of Annihilation that could consume divine material. The ancients called it "Pandorym," possibly a reference to Pandora or Pandora's infamous box. Anyway, Pandorym was so powerful that all the gods stepped in and imprisoned the thing's mind and body separately before it could completely enter the world, leaving it trapped in two crystalline prisons made of thick prismatic walls. Then, like good deities, they slaughtered the entire civilization that tried to summon Pandorym, leaving nothing behind but dust and bad memories. The crystals holding Pandorym still remain somewhere underground. If someone were to shatter one of them, releasing the mind or the body, it would quickly break its other half free, and the gods might not be fast enough to stop it this time. Once united, it would carry out its mission to destroy all divine beings, then return to whence it came. According to EE, this would also destroy the entire campaign world in the process. Nice...very nice; I might have to pick EE up one of these days.
Drackthor 02-12-08, 08:40 PM	See, anyone who kills a god ends up incuring the wrath of every one of the pantheon's other gods. Every. Single. One. If you have the Norse pantheon in your game, taking into account the quoted post and the post below the quoted post, kill Loki. You just got some pretty sweet powers, and basically Thor and Odin are down with it. It'd be awesome, they'd be all like Thor: Woah, damn bro, thanks. I've been trying to off him for like, EVER. Odin: Phew, you did me a solid here, bud. To be honest, I'm pretty sure he wasn't a big fan of the ladies, if you get my drift, and boy, let me tell you, getting him into Asgarde would be NO walk in the park. Have a drink, it's on the house.
turalisj 02-13-08, 06:39 PM	Loki is a special case. If I remember correctly, Loki was the bastard son of a giantess and another god (I think Oden when he had a bit too much) and everyone hated him like a nerd in gradeschool.
Eldritch_Lord 02-14-08, 07:35 PM	Loki is a special case. If I remember correctly, Loki was the bastard son of a giantess and another god (I think Oden when he had a bit too much) and everyone hated him like a nerd in gradeschool. According to the Norse epic Eddas, his parents were Faubarti and Laufey (Yay Wikipedia!), though which was the giantess and which was the Aesir, I'm not sure.
Taeldrin Laesrash 02-15-08, 01:21 AM	Loki is a special case. If I remember correctly, Loki was the bastard son of a giantess and another god (I think Oden when he had a bit too much) and everyone hated him like a nerd in gradeschool. He was hated more like you hate your cousin when he kills your brother. Early depictions of him portrayed as tricky, but good. He's still a rather unique case.
turalisj 02-15-08, 04:26 AM	Hmm.. which brother then? I have 5 younger borthers and wouldn't mind getting rid of 3 of them.... >.>; Oh, and even BEFORE you are ready to kill a god, even a demigod, a squad of 12 66hd Paragon Varakhuts appear, surround you, and pimp slap you into the next millenium.
Axiomatic_vampire 02-17-08, 05:02 PM	I'm not saying I doubt you, but what ability of a demi-god allows for the Paragon Varakhute gang-slap?
Eldritch_Lord 02-18-08, 07:31 PM	I'm not saying I doubt you, but what ability of a demi-god allows for the Paragon Varakhute gang-slap? A highly-coveted ability named "DM fiat."
turalisj 02-18-08, 11:48 PM	Exactly. Any DM in his right mind would have an army of them. Well... atleast I do... along with an army of paragon phrenic concordant killers with max hd.... :P
Axiomatic_vampire 02-19-08, 11:16 AM	Exactly. Any DM in his right mind would have an army of them. Well... atleast I do... along with an army of paragon phrenic concordant killers with max hd.... :P Decent idea for Gods, but demi-gods? I for one like the Deities and Demi-gods take on how gods work. You sound like you're working with the dice-freaks interpretation of divine power.
Eldritch_Lord 02-19-08, 04:26 PM	Decent idea for Gods, but demi-gods? I for one like the Deities and Demi-gods take on how gods work. You sound like you're working with the dice-freaks interpretation of divine power. I'd agree that major "You can't kill gods" ammo can be expended to defend greater or intermediate deities, but killing lesser gods should be possible, if extremely difficult, and killing demigods shouldn't be beyond the reach of 15th level characters (without taking SDAs into account, of course). Dicefreaks is a great system, I think, but only for the more powerful deities, not those of effectively deific servant rank.
Aryxbez 02-19-08, 07:06 PM	Godslaying, that reminds me of Final Fantasy Legends II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Legend_II#Story). Something I don't like too much about gods in deities and Demigods, is how most of them seem to be nearly the same. That they all have Alter reality, or auto hits, or all have immunity to pretty much every Status effect ever. As even in other mythologies, I'm sure there was a Greek or Norse god that gets poisoned, or otherwise affected by something that in D&D they're immune to. In fact, my original idea for my campaign when I started DMing was to have it be about slaying gods. It was mostly due to the above mentioned game as an inspiration (link is above). Of course the idea was swiftly dropped, as I believed this is not what my players wanted to do. I hope otherwise that god slaying will be somewhat viable, or at least more uniquely created Deities in 4th edition.
Taeldrin Laesrash 02-20-08, 12:28 AM	Well, D&DG is accepted to be a pretty lousy book. Godslaying, IMO, is wholly plot-dependent, and should make sense. Some upstart demigod is a challenge for level 19-20 PCs, but the higher the divine rank, the more likely the god is a plot device. Again, this'll probably all happen with artifacts for the purpose or unique circumstances.
Axiomatic_vampire 02-20-08, 01:38 AM	Lousy book? I'm curious what the knock on it is. Enlighten the ignorant?
Taeldrin Laesrash 02-20-08, 11:53 PM	Lousy may be a bit harsh, but here is a good look at some arguments. Since its original publication in 2002, third edition Deities and Demigods by Wizards of the Coast has been a controversial text. A great deal of discussion revolved around the fact that this book preceded the Epic Level Handbook by about three months. It was revealed that although there was some degree of intertextual relation- ship between the two books, divine and epic mechanics did not truly meld together well. Although gods as presented in Deities and Demigods were extremely powerful, not a single one progressed beyond 20th level in any one class, had access to epic feats, or could cast epic spells. Elements as mundane as damage reduction and spell resistance for gods were sorely out of balance with the same elements held by the higher tier epic monsters. On the other hand, there were some glaring balance issues within Deities and Demigods. Some salient divine abilities, like Alter Reality and Annihilating Strike, were too powerful given the manner in which the rules were presented. An example often raised was why Corellon Larethian had not destroyed Gruumsh during their fate- ful battle that resulted in the orc god losing his eye; Corellon, with his Annihilating Strike, probably should have destroyed Gruumsh at some point during their con- flict. Some of the salient divine abilities were so incredi- ble as to completely eliminate any opportunity for mortal interaction with the gods. A god with Divine Splendor could instantly destroy any being with no divine ranks, no saving throw. Furthermore, it was a bit odd to see that Boccob, a god of magic, could swing a staff as well as a 60th level fighter and that Kord, a god of martial strength, could cast spells much like a 60th level wizard. In creating cosmic entities, Dicefreaks came to real- ize that the gods needed to be overhauled. Even without cosmic entities in a campaign, the gods as written in Deities and Demigods do not take advantage of epic mechanics to their fullest and are not in balance with each other.
Kursk 02-21-08, 12:15 PM	Lousy may be a bit harsh, but here is a good look at some arguments. "A god with Divine Splendor could instantly destroy any being with no divine ranks, no saving throw." This power was developed for Zeus, who had this ability in Greek mythology. He could kill ANY mortal 100% of the time. This is the view that Gods are not merely very powerful mortals. In Greek mythology, gods were unkillable, even by other gods. Hence, the Titans being confined to Tartarus rather than being killed off by the Olympian gods at the conclusion of that war.