Gods need to be smarter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gods need to be smarter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xanaphia_Undomiel
03-27-07, 06:29 AM I think gods should be smarter, or clerics should be stronger.

Why do gods hand out a spell per day limit? Is it because they like it? Is it because they don't have enough power to offer unlimited spells per day?

If it is because they don't have enough power to give out that many spells, then why don't they regulate them more? Surely the god has better things to do than help some priest raid a dungeon.

If it is because they like it, then why don't all clerics go on strike? It would be funny- a whole lot of really bad fighters holding demonstrations on the Outer Planes, with slogans such as We Want More Turning and Orisons-Don't Insult Us.

Maybe, there could be a campaign setting where clerics have no control over their powers. The god would use his spirits (dead clerics, maybe) to follow clerics around and cast their spells for them, like a guardian angel. That would be a very interesting experience for the cleric- he has no power, but he is followed around by a someone who does have power.

Please tell me either:

Comments- did I stuff up in this post
Stories- about where you put this into play
or Projections about what would happen if you did.
Naderion
03-27-07, 07:10 AM Gods don't limit the amount of magical energy they give to the clerics. Every cleric can "draw" as much magic as he want's the limit is the capacity of the clerics mind. You just can store that much magical energy in your mind. If you want more, you have to train your mind, which you do when advancing levels as cleric.

If clerics start to demand things of their God, I'm very sure he doesn't care at all. Most gods have millions of worshipers and if one starts to make trouble, he just gets cut of from magic, that's it. But if a cleric is even considering to chalange his god, his faith can't really be that strong, that he recieves any magic at all.
Return of the Flumph
03-27-07, 08:11 AM Clerics are overpowered as it is. I think the gods are doing an alright job.
Adrez Nesnsid
03-27-07, 08:28 AM Gods don't limit the amount of magical energy they give to the clerics. Every cleric can "draw" as much magic as he want's the limit is the capacity of the clerics mind. You just can store that much magical energy in your mind. If you want more, you have to train your mind, which you do when advancing levels as cleric.

What about clerics worshipping a god or goddess of madness, you'd think that if they really wanted extra spells per day than their deity would be glad to "forcibly" intervene to grant them any extra spells per day they wanted, whether or not they could handle it, regardless of possible (or even inevitable) psychological trauma, brain tumors, or warpage of spirit.
Millennium
03-27-07, 09:37 AM Why do gods hand out a spell per day limit? Is it because they like it? Is it because they don't have enough power to offer unlimited spells per day?
The god does not decide how much power their clerics can draw. The cleric himself does that, with his own personal power as the limiting factor.

Or, to put it another way, there is a limit because clerics are not gods, and so it makes perfect sense for them to not be gods.
Hand of Vecna
03-27-07, 10:52 AM Why don't Clerics have unlimited spells?

Why don't sorcerers/wizards have unlimited spells?

Because (A) that'd be horrendously game-breaking, and (B) the in-game reason is that there's likely a limit to how much arcane/divine energy a given being can channel at a time; the amount increases with practice (i.e., as you gain levels).
Khael
03-27-07, 11:00 AM What about clerics worshipping a god or goddess of madness, you'd think that if they really wanted extra spells per day than their deity would be glad to "forcibly" intervene to grant them any extra spells per day they wanted, whether or not they could handle it, regardless of possible (or even inevitable) psychological trauma, brain tumors, or warpage of spirit.

Becasue such a god is also gonig to be very random - you have as much chance of getting an off day when your god refuses to grant you any spells, not becasue of your own fault, but because he/she is sulking.

Then of course gods want a balance - no good god wants to bust him followers hgead open with power, evil gods don't want to hand over too much power.

Maybe of course, there's a grand accord signed by the gods even limiting the power they'll hand over to mortasl so both sides are on even keels.
Of course both sides made sure to leave open the opening 'no limit on numbers of CLERICs to channel power through' though, hence why both good and evil both try to genocide the other's forces.
ripvanwormer
03-27-07, 11:37 AM The god of madness idea isn't a bad premise for a template - twisted, broken priests of madness who channel many more spells each day but are catatonic, cancerous invalids most of the time. The ECL of the template might still be prohibitive, though.
Hand of Vecna
03-27-07, 04:06 PM Gods of Madness (like Tharizdun) tend to be imprisoned (or in R'lyeh, dead yet dreaming), so they've likely got limits on just what they can do. And even if they could "overload" their clerics, they wouldn't, because what's the use of having a bunch of dead (not undead, dead-dead) clerics?
ripvanwormer
03-27-07, 04:43 PM Gods of Madness (like Tharizdun) tend to be imprisoned

Ralishaz and Cyric aren't.

And even if they could "overload" their clerics, they wouldn't, because what's the use of having a bunch of dead (not undead, dead-dead) clerics?

I kind of like the idea of a truly mad god (not just eccentric, but seriously mentally ill) killing all of its clerics in a failed attempt at leveling them all up.
Hand of Vecna
03-27-07, 05:28 PM Ralishaz and Cyric aren't.

That's why I said in "tend to be imprisoned," not "are all imprisoned". ;)
DarkRhystar
03-27-07, 06:12 PM In some settings, it's a competition to get the most followers. Gods who become stingy may lose followers. Gods who are giving plenty gain followers. Consequently all gods are giving more to encourage followers (join now and get 50% discount off your next 5 Turn Undead attempts).

Now, what if all gods decided to get together and agree to be stingy?

How long would be before some evil god broke that promise?

Would Ao or the local head god slap on a "Trade/Monopoly Buster" baseball cap and kick some arse?

You decide!
sciborg2
03-27-07, 06:17 PM That would be a very interesting experience for the cleric- he has no power, but he is followed around by a someone who does have power.

This is a really cool idea.
Tichondrus
03-27-07, 06:21 PM Look at it this way:
Every single god is a gym.
The powers and spells are weights.
The god leaves the weights, wich are unlimited, lying on the floor, and each clerk goes and takes waht he can carry.
Now, if I gave you a 8000 pounds weight, would you be able to lift it? What about move it at all?
Bluehero
03-28-07, 01:48 AM Also, you could say that the clerics aren't actually getting power from their gods at all, but rather from themselves, much as a sorcerer does. Clerics can choose to worship a concept rather than a deity, and spells can be granted by demon princes and archdevils who aren't gods and should in theory not be able to grant spells. What if praying a being faithful was really just a sham invented by the deities so they would get more attention, or maybe they get power but don't give any back. The mechanics would work the same, only if the secret got out, I bet a lot of faiths would collapse.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xanaphia_Undomiel 03-27-07, 06:29 AM	I think gods should be smarter, or clerics should be stronger. Why do gods hand out a spell per day limit? Is it because they like it? Is it because they don't have enough power to offer unlimited spells per day? If it is because they don't have enough power to give out that many spells, then why don't they regulate them more? Surely the god has better things to do than help some priest raid a dungeon. If it is because they like it, then why don't all clerics go on strike? It would be funny- a whole lot of really bad fighters holding demonstrations on the Outer Planes, with slogans such as We Want More Turning and Orisons-Don't Insult Us. Maybe, there could be a campaign setting where clerics have no control over their powers. The god would use his spirits (dead clerics, maybe) to follow clerics around and cast their spells for them, like a guardian angel. That would be a very interesting experience for the cleric- he has no power, but he is followed around by a someone who does have power. Please tell me either: Comments- did I stuff up in this post Stories- about where you put this into play or Projections about what would happen if you did.
Naderion 03-27-07, 07:10 AM	Gods don't limit the amount of magical energy they give to the clerics. Every cleric can "draw" as much magic as he want's the limit is the capacity of the clerics mind. You just can store that much magical energy in your mind. If you want more, you have to train your mind, which you do when advancing levels as cleric. If clerics start to demand things of their God, I'm very sure he doesn't care at all. Most gods have millions of worshipers and if one starts to make trouble, he just gets cut of from magic, that's it. But if a cleric is even considering to chalange his god, his faith can't really be that strong, that he recieves any magic at all.
Return of the Flumph 03-27-07, 08:11 AM	Clerics are overpowered as it is. I think the gods are doing an alright job.
Adrez Nesnsid 03-27-07, 08:28 AM	Gods don't limit the amount of magical energy they give to the clerics. Every cleric can "draw" as much magic as he want's the limit is the capacity of the clerics mind. You just can store that much magical energy in your mind. If you want more, you have to train your mind, which you do when advancing levels as cleric. What about clerics worshipping a god or goddess of madness, you'd think that if they really wanted extra spells per day than their deity would be glad to "forcibly" intervene to grant them any extra spells per day they wanted, whether or not they could handle it, regardless of possible (or even inevitable) psychological trauma, brain tumors, or warpage of spirit.
Millennium 03-27-07, 09:37 AM	Why do gods hand out a spell per day limit? Is it because they like it? Is it because they don't have enough power to offer unlimited spells per day? The god does not decide how much power their clerics can draw. The cleric himself does that, with his own personal power as the limiting factor. Or, to put it another way, there is a limit because clerics are not gods, and so it makes perfect sense for them to not be gods.
Hand of Vecna 03-27-07, 10:52 AM	Why don't Clerics have unlimited spells? Why don't sorcerers/wizards have unlimited spells? Because (A) that'd be horrendously game-breaking, and (B) the in-game reason is that there's likely a limit to how much arcane/divine energy a given being can channel at a time; the amount increases with practice (i.e., as you gain levels).
Khael 03-27-07, 11:00 AM	What about clerics worshipping a god or goddess of madness, you'd think that if they really wanted extra spells per day than their deity would be glad to "forcibly" intervene to grant them any extra spells per day they wanted, whether or not they could handle it, regardless of possible (or even inevitable) psychological trauma, brain tumors, or warpage of spirit. Becasue such a god is also gonig to be very random - you have as much chance of getting an off day when your god refuses to grant you any spells, not becasue of your own fault, but because he/she is sulking. Then of course gods want a balance - no good god wants to bust him followers hgead open with power, evil gods don't want to hand over too much power. Maybe of course, there's a grand accord signed by the gods even limiting the power they'll hand over to mortasl so both sides are on even keels. Of course both sides made sure to leave open the opening 'no limit on numbers of CLERICs to channel power through' though, hence why both good and evil both try to genocide the other's forces.
ripvanwormer 03-27-07, 11:37 AM	The god of madness idea isn't a bad premise for a template - twisted, broken priests of madness who channel many more spells each day but are catatonic, cancerous invalids most of the time. The ECL of the template might still be prohibitive, though.
Hand of Vecna 03-27-07, 04:06 PM	Gods of Madness (like Tharizdun) tend to be imprisoned (or in R'lyeh, dead yet dreaming), so they've likely got limits on just what they can do. And even if they could "overload" their clerics, they wouldn't, because what's the use of having a bunch of dead (not undead, dead-dead) clerics?
ripvanwormer 03-27-07, 04:43 PM	Gods of Madness (like Tharizdun) tend to be imprisoned Ralishaz and Cyric aren't. And even if they could "overload" their clerics, they wouldn't, because what's the use of having a bunch of dead (not undead, dead-dead) clerics? I kind of like the idea of a truly mad god (not just eccentric, but seriously mentally ill) killing all of its clerics in a failed attempt at leveling them all up.
Hand of Vecna 03-27-07, 05:28 PM	Ralishaz and Cyric aren't. That's why I said in "tend to be imprisoned," not "are all imprisoned". ;)
DarkRhystar 03-27-07, 06:12 PM	In some settings, it's a competition to get the most followers. Gods who become stingy may lose followers. Gods who are giving plenty gain followers. Consequently all gods are giving more to encourage followers (join now and get 50% discount off your next 5 Turn Undead attempts). Now, what if all gods decided to get together and agree to be stingy? How long would be before some evil god broke that promise? Would Ao or the local head god slap on a "Trade/Monopoly Buster" baseball cap and kick some arse? You decide!
sciborg2 03-27-07, 06:17 PM	That would be a very interesting experience for the cleric- he has no power, but he is followed around by a someone who does have power. This is a really cool idea.
Tichondrus 03-27-07, 06:21 PM	Look at it this way: Every single god is a gym. The powers and spells are weights. The god leaves the weights, wich are unlimited, lying on the floor, and each clerk goes and takes waht he can carry. Now, if I gave you a 8000 pounds weight, would you be able to lift it? What about move it at all?
Bluehero 03-28-07, 01:48 AM	Also, you could say that the clerics aren't actually getting power from their gods at all, but rather from themselves, much as a sorcerer does. Clerics can choose to worship a concept rather than a deity, and spells can be granted by demon princes and archdevils who aren't gods and should in theory not be able to grant spells. What if praying a being faithful was really just a sham invented by the deities so they would get more attention, or maybe they get power but don't give any back. The mechanics would work the same, only if the secret got out, I bet a lot of faiths would collapse.