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| PrinceOfTheVoid09-17-07, 08:37 PM | I posted this a while ago on Dicefreaks and met with a lot of negative criticism and claims of it being overpowered, unflavorful, and unneccesary. I just wanted to get some other people's opinions on this class. Also, I would appreciate it if any Dicefreaks members reading this would not restart the same arguements that we've beaten to death over there. Also, I would like to point out the follwoing: 1. This is an Epic prestiege class, meant for an Epic setting. (My Homebrew) 2. There is no reason to allow a player that attained this class to actually encounter a deity. Ever. It was designed as a class for a Godslayer NpC, and I must say that, in my opinion, it does its job rather well. Godslayer Hatred can be a powerful weapon, when channeled correctly. It can inflict vile curses, horrifying ravages, and even scar the soul of its victim, depending on whence the animosity is directed and how virulent the hatred’s insidious malice truly is. And from the loathsome, vile despite of the divine is a Godslayer born. Only a being who devotes the entirety of its soul to the opposition and destruction of the divine can qualify to become a Godslayer. However, even with the sufficient deicidal impulses, an aspirant to godslaughter must spend long and darksome hours perusing ancient and reprehensible texts concerning the true nature of divinity and the inherent faults of the same. A Godslayer is the anathema of all things that possess the Divine Spark. He is a brooding, morose entity that exists only as a cosmic murderer. He wields fell and terrible power beyond mortal or divine comprehension. Within his soul burns an imperishable flame of utter stygian hollowness punctuated solely by his total and uncompromising lack of piety. A Godslayer does not simply hate divine beings, as does an Ur-Priest, or disbelieve in them to mock their power, as does a Defiant of the Athar. No; he denounces their lordship with the esoterica of aeons-hidden deicidal elucidation, and the ichor of eternal beings stained indelibly into his blasphemous sword. Godslayer’s come from a predominantly martial background, as magic is notoriously known to be a construct of the divine. Some Psychic Warriors who discover secrets of divine failure take up the Godslayer’s loathsome mantle, however, their ranks are dominated primarily by Blackguards, Paladins of Tyranny and Slaughter, Ur-Priests, Defiants, and Warriors of Darkness. Prerequisites Base Attacks Bonus: +27 Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 24 Ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 24 Ranks Feats: Evil Brand, Vile Martial Strike, Dark Speech Special: The character may not possess Divine or Cosmic Rank of any sort. Hd: d10 Skill Points: 2+ Intelligence Modifier Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (The Planes), Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Track Level Class Feature 1 Anathema Cloak, Antidivinity, Favored Enemy (Gods) +2 2 Divine Spell Resistance, Smite Gods 1/day 3 Favored Enemy (Gods) +4 4 Smite Gods 2/day 5 Favored Enemy (Gods) +6, Parallax Distortion 6 Smite Gods 3/day 7 Atheist Paroxysm, Favored Enemy (Gods) +8 8 Smite Gods 4/day 9 Godslaughter, Favored Enemy (Gods) +10 10 Godblight, Smite Gods 5/day Anathema Cloak: A Godslayer is a void upon the divine matrix that underlies the Multiverse. He is effectively invisible to a god’s deific senses and cannot be detected by the likes of Remote Sensing or Portfolio Sense, should he come into range of either. Antidivinty: A Godslayer knows the cosmic secrets that fuel a deity’s power and is resistant to their inherent divinity. He takes reduced damage from divine sources such as a god’s Divine Blast or a Flame Strike spell equal to his Hit Dice x2. Favored Enemy (Gods): A Godslayer knows how to kill gods and excels at fighting them. He gains a +2 to attack and damage rolls against divine beings, including the Proxies or Avatars of a deity. This also allows him to qualify for the Bane of Enemies and Death of Enemies Epic Feats, only for Gods, even if he has no other favored enemies. These bonuses increase by +2 for every 2 Godslayer levels beyond 2. Divine Spell Resistance: A Godslayer is preternaturally inured to divine magic thanks to his despicable training. He gains a Spell Resistance of 16 + his Hit Dice against all divine spells. Smite Gods: A Godslayer can infuse his strikes with anathematic energies 1/day at level 2. When using this ability, he gains a bonus to his Attack Rolls equal to his Charisma Modifier and deals extra vile damage on his Damage Rolls equal to his Godslayer class levels x his opponent's Divine Rank against any God, Cosmic Entity, Avatar, or Proxy. He gains one extra use of this ability per day every 2nd level beyond 2nd. Parallax Distortion: Once per day, starting at 5th level, a Godslayer may generate a field of suppressive energy that interferes with a divine being’s access to the Arcane Wave. This effect acts like an Antimagic Field centered on the Godslayer, cast by a Wizard of the Godslayer’s Hit Dice. However, this field only effects beings with Divine Rank and radiates form the Godslayer, not impeding him in the slightest. A deity affected by this ability receives a Rank Check against the Godslayer's class level to nullify this ability's effects each round. A Godslayer receives an extra use of this ability at every 10 levels beyond fifth. (15th, 25th, 35th, etc.) Atheist Paroxysm: Once per day, a 7th level Godslayer can emit an inhibitive sphere of apostasic antidivinity. This field emanates from the Godslayer and stretches for 10 ft. per Godslayer level. In order to affect anything inside the field (through the use of a spell, Salient Divine Ability, or anything that steems directly from the divinity of the deity, such as Domain Powers), the deity must succed with a rank check (DC 10+½ godslayer level + Charisma bonus) each time it tries to affect anything inside the field. It lasts for 1 round per level of Godslayer the godslayer has. A Godslayer receives an extra use of this ability at every 5 levels beyond 7th. (12th, 17th, 22nd, etc.) Godslaughter: A 9th level Godslayer is so mightily steeped in the lore of deicide that he can openly defy and challenge divine entities as can no other mortal. He can make Rank Checks against deities or cosmic entities as if he had a virtual divine rank equal to his Godslayer class level. After 20 levels, this bonus instead increases at a rate of 1 every 3 Godslayer classes, reflecting the massive divine power contained by Overgods and the like, whose divinity is intrinsic to the nature of Creation itself. Godblight: At 10th level, a Godslayer becomes a true bane of the divine, a theological nightmare that warps the nature of Divinity itself. Whenever he is in an area that would be affected by a deity's Divine Aura, the deity in question loses all Divine Bonuses to their Ac, Checks, Saves, Attacks, etc, and instead gains a Divine Penalty equal to the same of amount. In addition, the Godslayer gains an Antidivine Bonus to all of his Ac, Checks, Saves, Attacks, etc, equal to the oppsoing god's Divine Rank. This ability can negate up to 1 Divine Rank per Godslayer Level and may spread amongst as may deities as fall into the affected area. I would appreciate any thoughts, comments, and/or constructive criticism Thank you |
| Aryxbez09-17-07, 08:49 PM | I find this interesting, however if it is for epic, then this should go on the epic forums yes? Otherwise I guess I can like it, as I had always wanted to make something that could slay gods. Of course that was my original campaign idea back when I first DMed, however that idea evolved out of that and became a campaign world I like ever so. I think Favored enemy (gods) should just be favored enemy, and stacks with any other favored enemy (if applicable) to the current enemy. Only problem with this is that I can't figure out a NPC that would be this. Also that the fact it is epic, means it's balance is questionable, also it is at 27th, the very least, which is too far into the field of epic for me. Otherwise think you did a pretty good job. |
| mortalgod66609-17-07, 09:12 PM | 2 words...kratos....dude I thank you for giving me a reason to live. No seriously I do love it though( and am gonna use it for an NpC, in my recent campaign,if thats cool) |
| Taeldrin Laesrash09-17-07, 09:21 PM | I personally think it's a bit much. Godblight makes little sense (Why does the god suddenly get penalties just because the godslayer is within a hundred feet of them?), and Atheist Paroxysm should definately be the capstone ability, and still toned down (Taking away anything's innate immunities and traits is unprecedented). Also, I do have to agree, it is relatively flavorless. Slaying a god is not meant to be a general thing; specific steps have to be taken for each individual god. Evil cosmic murderers are just too general for this kind of thing; the death of a god is often a multiverse-altering catastrophe. I understand that you need an NPC to kill a god, but given their power levels, you're better off using a statless effect that won't raise questions. |
| Kamin_Majere09-17-07, 09:34 PM | wow... i mean just wow. I'll just take this class and then wall down to the depths of hell and pun kick Asmodeus in the nuts. I mean surely a single prestige class should be able to over power beings that have millions of prime worlds under their heels. Sorry if that not constructive, but really... its a bit much. I mean does your world actually have gods anymore? I'm pretty sure even one of those character that reaches say 50th level would just kill them all as the greater the god the weaker it actually becomes. Its just a poor class IMO, sorry :( |
| Bluehero09-17-07, 10:22 PM | I like it. I think that while it may seem over powered to some, this sort of thing is really the only way a mortal can have a chance against a god. I think its wonderful myself, especially since my campaign has a lot to do with killing multiple gods and I can see myself using this on more than one occassion in the future. My only question is: is deicide ancension god blight? or is it some other class ability you got rid of but didn't take off the level up chart? |
| dndfencer09-17-07, 11:06 PM | I see Kamin Majere's point about this entity wiping out all gods but there are a number of roleplaying reasons you could use to prevent this and so it is a kick ass class. Perhaps once they kill enough gods they incidentally become one or cannot esixt without gods. OR whatever the hell you want. However, you could also give some gods the ability to be immune to his abilities or allow the gods to keep some of their bonuses (i mean really you seem to make this a class that reduces gods to just another 40 or 60 level character). |
| Taeldrin Laesrash09-17-07, 11:06 PM | I like it. I think that while it may seem over powered to some, this sort of thing is really the only way a mortal can have a chance against a god. I think its wonderful myself, especially since my campaign has a lot to do with killing multiple gods and I can see myself using this on more than one occassion in the future. My only question is: is deicide ancension god blight? or is it some other class ability you got rid of but didn't take off the level up chart? Yeah, but did you just have the players face down random gods with their basic gear? With this class, you're another evil fighter or anti-paladin, no big deal. Then, one level later, you're the sworn enemy of the divine, and can kick the butt of omnipotent beings. Are mortals supposed to have a chance against a god? Don't get me wrong, I'm okay with dieing gods, but this seems to be a major oversimplification. |
| captianhowdy09-18-07, 12:37 AM | You could give it more flavor as to being the servant of the gods to kill gods opposed to them where they normally could not, exactly how Kratos was used by the gods to kill Ares |
| zeratulcraft09-18-07, 12:57 AM | How do you get a base attack bonus higher than 20? Once you hit epic you don't get any more base attack...unless you mean epic base attack bonus too, in which case you get into this at 34th at the lowest. |
| Witch09-18-07, 06:09 AM | How do you get a base attack bonus higher than 20? Once you hit epic you don't get any more base attack...unless you mean epic base attack bonus too, in which case you get into this at 34th at the lowest. He knows that. Epic Attack Bonus counts as Base Attack Bonus for all purposes. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-18-07, 10:16 AM | My only question is: is deicide ancension god blight? or is it some other class ability you got rid of but didn't take off the level up chart? Thanks for catching that. Originally he gained abomination traits at 10th level, but it was agreed upon that such traits would be oxymoronical to his antidivine nature, as it provides Dvr 0. Also, thanks for commenting on my Godslayer, and feel free to use it if you want. Keep in mind that it does its job very well. Also, in my campaign, the gods, or as I term them, the Antedeluvian Entities, could pwn any would-be godslayers by sheer virtue of their immense hd and ability scores, not to mention double gestalt class features. Keep in mind a mortal has to level up to gain power, while my gods simply start at 150hd, so it really is only a threat to demigods and the like. Also, if you don't like it, or think its overpowered, I never saids that you have to use it. I know that some people don't like mortals killing gods, and that's fine, I justwanted some feedback. And also, if I was going to use this in an actual game, I would have the aspirant to deicide be required to somehow learn some fundamental secret fault within the nature of divinity itself, before he could gain the power to become a Godslayer. Thank you for the comments |
| Kamin_Majere09-18-07, 12:29 PM | Also, in my campaign, the gods, or as I term them, the Antedeluvian Entities, could pwn any would-be godslayers by sheer virtue of their immense hd and ability scores, not to mention double gestalt class features. Keep in mind a mortal has to level up to gain power, while my gods simply start at 150hd, so it really is only a threat to demigods and the like. Also, if you don't like it, or think its overpowered, I never saids that you have to use it. I know that some people don't like mortals killing gods, and that's fine, I justwanted some feedback. And also, if I was going to use this in an actual game, I would have the aspirant to deicide be required to somehow learn some fundamental secret fault within the nature of divinity itself, before he could gain the power to become a Godslayer. Thank you for the comments Ok wow, never mind what i said, if your gods are rocking around with Gestalt classes and 150 HD then i guess the power of this class loses alot of its "zing" I honestly dont mind gods dieing, i just dislike the fact most people go on the "godslayer" powertrip and then think themselves something amazing becasue of it. This class would be retarded going agasint something that WotC has made in the past, but with the gods you describe then i think its a fine class, as it could really never challenge anything with 150 HD (espicallly gestalted) |
| Gemstone09-18-07, 12:53 PM | Atheist Paroxysm: Once per day, a 7th level Godslayer can emit an inhibitive sphere of apostasic antidivinity. This effect lasts 1 round per Godslayer class level and extends to a radius of 100ft per Godslayer class level. Any deity, cosmic entity, avatar, or proxy in this area has their divinity temporarily negated, depriving them of any Divine Immunities, Traits, Domain Powers, Spelllike Abilities granted from Domains, or the use of any Salient Divine Abilities. The Deity receives a Will Save each round equal to 10 +the 1/2 Godslayer's hd +the Godslayer's Charisma modifier to negate the effects of this ability each round, taking a penalty on their Saving Throw equal to their Divine Rank (This penalty stacks with the penalty from Godblight). A Godslayer receives an extra use of this ability at every 10 levels beyond 7th. (17th, 27th, 37th, etc.) Godslaughter: A 9th level Godslayer is so mightily steeped in the lore of deicide that he can openly defy and challenge divine entities as can no other mortal. He can make Rank Checks against deities or cosmic entities as if he had a virtual divine rank equal to his Godslayer class level. Godblight: At 10th level, a Godslayer becomes a true bane of the divine, a theological nightmare that warps the nature of Divinity itself. Whenever he is in an area that would be affected by a deity's Divine Aura, the deity in question loses all Divine Bonuses to their Ac, Checks, Saves, Attacks, etc, and instead gains a Divine Penalty equal to the same of amount. In addition, the Godslayer gains an Antidivine Bonus to all of his Ac, Checks, Saves, Attacks, etc, equal to the oppsoing god's Divine Rank. While the prestige class is fine, these are very problematic, as they are broken in my oppinion. I suppose the following changes: Divine Spell Resistance: Change to either 12+character level, or 14+character level. 20 is just insanely good :) Atheist Paroxysm: If I understand this correctly, it works as an antimagic field against all abilities.. I would rather write is as that the character is unaffected by any divine abilities unless the deity succeds with a DvR check against DC 10+½ Godslayer level + charisma bonus (which includes any spell-like abilities) Godslaughter: Change name to something more akin to the ability itself, such as Antidivine Will. Change the virtua rank to: Godslayer class level, up to a maximum of 20 virtual Divine ranks. After that, +½ per class level. Godblight: Change so that the character can designate one deity within 50 ft per character level. Set penalty to -1 per Godslayer level and allow a will save (DC 20+½ HD + Cha bonus) for half or negate. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-18-07, 03:23 PM | I suppose the following changes: Divine Spell Resistance: Change to either 12+character level, or 14+character level. 20 is just insanely good Atheist Paroxysm: If I understand this correctly, it works as an antimagic field against all abilities.. I would rather write is as that the character is unaffected by any divine abilities unless the deity succeds with a DvR check against DC 10+½ Godslayer level + charisma bonus (which includes any spell-like abilities) Godslaughter: Change name to something more akin to the ability itself, such as Antidivine Will. Change the virtua rank to: Godslayer class level, up to a maximum of 20 virtual Divine ranks. After that, +½ per class level. Godblight: Change so that the character can designate one deity within 50 ft per character level. Set penalty to -1 per Godslayer level and allow a will save (DC 20+½ HD + Cha bonus) for half or negate. Let me adress these individually, while saying that, among other things, these four would need to be changed drastically in a game with normal deities. If you offer a convincing enough arguement to my points here, I would be happy to change it. Also, does anyone think that the damage calculation for Smite Gods is either overpowered or underpowered? That caused some prblems on Dicefreaks for some people. Divine Spell Resistance: Keep in mind that he's going to be facing things with far more Hd than he has class levels usually. (Which in itself is problematic for a player character) Atheist Paroxysm: It works somewhat in that maner, however, it only abjures features and abilities that stem from divine traits, eg, those listed. As to your suggested, I thought of the ability as a field that nullifies the deity's divinity while within it, rahter than as a personal protection of the Godslayer's Godslaughter: I'm not sure if your familiar with the rules used by DIcefreaks, for whcih this ability was designed, but it allows him to make Rank CHecks to keep them dead and prevent them rejuvinating, hence the term Godslaughter. However, the 1/2 scaling afterwards is a very good idea, since I don;t exactly want him running around bumping off Overgods. (Who I assume would be beyond his abilities anyways) Godblight: Perhaps 1 deity per 5 character levels after 10? Also, for the second, would you consider a Rank Check for such equally valid? I'm not trying to make some munchkin class for stupid pcs to slaughter pantheons with, however, I do think that a 20th level Godslayer should be considered a major threat to most pantheons, and be able to back up that perception. |
| Gemstone09-18-07, 07:04 PM | Let me adress these individually, while saying that, among other things, these four would need to be changed drastically in a game with normal deities. As I once said: "Sure, why not?" Divine Spell Resistance: Keep in mind that he's going to be facing things with far more Hd than he has class levels usually. (Which in itself is problematic for a player character) The problem here will be twofold. A god gains its divine rank as a bonus to its caster level checks (IIRC), thus 20+level would be good. But since you negate the bonus by a higher level ability, you suddenly run around with an SR that a character of equal level would require a natural 20 to beat. This is not balanced, especially as gods gains a hefty bonus to their CR from their ranks, so you'll basicly be putting them back a few caster levels, so even spell penetration won't help them much. For example, say that you face a 30 HD wizard deity (DvR 6). Such a wizard would be around CR 36 in my calculations (since at that level DvR doesn't put you forth that much). That gives him caster level 36. If you face him as... Very Easy 20 Easy 20 Moderate 20 difficult 18+ Very difficult 16+ This means that magic using gods will be very taxed when facing him (as they only have 25% chance to affect him with SR spells). Atheist Paroxysm: It works somewhat in that maner, however, it only abjures features and abilities that stem from divine traits, eg, those listed. As to your suggested, I thought of the ability as a field that nullifies the deity's divinity while within it, rahter than as a personal protection of the Godslayer's Very well, put it into an area effect then that forces the deity to make checks against you character level as I suggested earlier :) This could be similiar to an antimagic field, which would make it easier to understand. Godslaughter: I'm not sure if your familiar with the rules used by DIcefreaks, for whcih this ability was designed, but it allows him to make Rank Checks to keep them dead and prevent them rejuvinating, hence the term Godslaughter. However, the 1/2 scaling afterwards is a very good idea, since I don;t exactly want him running around bumping off Overgods. (Who I assume would be beyond his abilities anyways) While I'm not exactly familiar with them (I've only skimmed them through), I have my own system of virtual DvR that's not that different. Perhaps +1 VDvR per 3 class levels would be better. That means that at level 77 (27 levels others and 50 levels of godslayer), you could take down a DvR 30 deity! Now that's Epic! Godblight: Perhaps 1 deity per 5 character levels after 10? Also, for the second, would you consider a Rank Check for such equally valid? Hmm... workable. You could also rewrite it so that you can designate several deities to a lower effect. So being level 6, you could lessen 6 DvR 1 deities, or 2 DvR 3... not sure about the balance, but it makes divine minions much easier to go through, as well as proxies. Perhaps a bit more akin to what you wanted? I'm not trying to make some munchkin class for stupid pcs to slaughter pantheons with, however, I do think that a 20th level Godslayer should be considered a major threat to most pantheons, and be able to back up that perception. The problem here is the view of a PC. Some people think that mortals are just below deities, while others believe them to be able to achieve equal or greater status. I'm off the mind that a 20th level godslayer will be legendary, but not a threat to an entire pantheon :) A single greater deity will fear him, but two or three? I SAY THEE... http://www.amazingcomics.it/thor5web.jpg NAY! |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-18-07, 08:04 PM | ^^ That's awesome ^^ Also, keep in mind that DIvine Spell Resistance only affect Divine Spells (i.e. Clerical/Druidic/ etc) not spells cast by deities, so the wizard god would be casting at full power against him. Do you still think it should be lowered? Alright, I'll fix atheist paroxysm, and since I'm too lazy at the moment to look up AMF, could explain to me what you mean? 1/3 does sound more logical. (honestly, I never even considered taking this class beyond level 20:embarrass the Npc I use it for is a Paragon Storm Giant Fighter 20 Black Guard 20 Ur-Priest 30 Godslayer 20, along with an artifact sword that permanently gives him 1 SDA from any god he slays, usable at his Virtual DvR, so he's pretty powerful) I like that idea for Godblight, since the current version would nearly allow him to take the entire pantheon at once. With that at least he'll have to have quite a few levels of Godslayer to make it effective against a large group of deities. I'll get to work updating that. Thanks for the help, Gemstone. |
| Gemstone09-19-07, 04:58 AM | ^^ That's awesome ^^ I just had too :) Also, keep in mind that DIvine Spell Resistance only affect Divine Spells (i.e. Clerical/Druidic/ etc) not spells cast by deities, so the wizard god would be casting at full power against him. Do you still think it should be lowered? Holy thor! I misread it copletly! :eek: But if it only affects clerics and druids and divine casters, it's much to high indeed. The same calculation as my last post still applies, so I suggest lowering it to 15 or 16 plus character level. It will make him nigh impenetrable by such spells, but it will give the caster a chance (especially with spell focus, as it will be 11 or 12 plus character level). But 20 is still a bit above the top :) Alright, I'll fix atheist paroxysm, and since I'm too lazy at the moment to look up AMF, could explain to me what you mean? Basicly, write it as: Atheist Paroxysm (Ex): The Godslayer is constantly surrounded by a field of antidivinity, twisting and reordering the very core of divinity. From xth level and on, he's emanating a field that negates any SDA's or other abilities coming directly from a deity unless the deity succeds with a rank check (DC 10+½ Godslayer level + Cha bonus to). Divine spells cast from clerics isn't affected by this ability. 1/3 does sound more logical. (honestly, I never even considered taking this class beyond level 20:embarrass the Npc I use it for is a Paragon Storm Giant Fighter 10 Black Guard 10 Ur-Priest 30 Godslayer 20, along with an artifact sword that permanently gives him 1 SDA from any god he slays, usable at his Virtual DvR, so he's pretty powerful) I like that idea for Godblight, since the current version would nearly allow him to take the entire pantheon at once. With that at least he'll have to have quite a few levels of Godslayer to make it effective against a large group of deities. Yeah, 1/3 sounds better and more balanced. I can see why that giant is so powerful though O_o I don't think I have a NPC's that's that high ECL in any of my worlds (the nearest being Arcanus, my archwizard npc). May I suggest giving him an armor that protects him from divine powers, gained before he got the levels of godslayer? I'll get to work updating that. Thanks for the help, Gemstone. Your welcome :) I can understand that dicefreaks knee-jerked at this class, as they seem to be off the mind that Deities ALWAYS > mortals. I'm glad to help. /Gemstone |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-19-07, 08:15 AM | Alright, I fixed Divine Spell Resistance to 16 I'm still confused about Atheist Paroxysm. RIght now, it only works 1/day for a number of round equal to his Godslayer level. You want it always active? Also, am I reading it that the deity receives a single Rank Check to be immune to the ability, instead of ever round? And if its calculated that way (Dc 10 +1/2 Godslayer Level + Cha Bonus), its going to be very difficult for anything short of an Overdeity to make that check at all. That's why I was basing it on a Dc solely to his Godslayer Class Level, including the +1/3 progression after 20. Do you still think it would be better that way or should we try something else? Also, that's a neat idea about the armor. If I have time, I'll update his stats an post him here. Thanks again |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-19-07, 02:57 PM | Here he is. Keep in mind he uses a lot of the Dicefreaks Fighter Feats. Anyways, brace yourselves for the cosmic horror that is, Ra’va’grale The Godbane, Murderer to Those Divine Huge Giant (Extraplanar, Evil, Chaotic) Antidivine Rank 9 Paragon Storm Giant Fighter 20 Black Guard 20 Godslayer 20 Ur-Priest 30 Hd: 20d10 +20d10 +20d10 +30d8 +19d8 +1308 +2289 (4,599 hp) Initiative: +24, always first (+16 Dexterity +8 Improved Initiative) Speed: 300 ft Ac: 151 (10 +12 Luck +12 Insight +39 Natural +34 Deflection +9 Antiivine +19 Armor +16 Dexterity) Touch: 60 Flat-footed 135 Attacks Stormrender +191/+191 8d6+143 +2d6 Unholy +3d6 Hellshock +3d6 15-20/x3 Hellfire (+24/+4d6+20 v. Gods) Full Attack: Stormrender +191/+191/+187/+183/+179/+175 8d6+143 +2d10 Unholy +2d6 Unholy +3d6 Hellshock +3d6 Hellfire 15-20/x3 (+24/+4d6+20 v. Gods) Special Abilities: Aura of Evil, Poison Use, Blackguard Spells, Smite Good 13/day +34 to hit; +180 to damage, Aura of Despair, Sneak Attack +9d6, Rebuke/Command Undead 37/day, Charging Smite, Favored Enemy (Gods) +20, Smite Gods 14/day, Parallax Distortion 2/day, Atheist Paroxysm 2/day, Godslaughter, Godblight, Siphon Spell Power, Steal Spell-like Ability, Domain Powers (Evil, Death Destruction), Salient Divine Abilities, Spell-like Abilities, Travel, Divine Blast 43/day 43d12 Special Qualities: Dark Blessing, Antidivinty, Divine Spell Resistance 134, Anathema Cloak, Dr 30/Epic and Mithral, Divine Aura 900 ft Dc 63, Immortal, Sr 109, immune to: Transmutation, Mind Affecting Effects, Electricity, Cold, Acid, Disease, Poison, Stunning, Sleep, Paralysis, Death Effects, Disintegrate, Ability Drain, Ability Damage, Level Loss, Resist Fire 29,Resist Divine Damage 218, Portfolio Sense, Automatic Actions Dc19 5/round, Create Magic Items- 30,000 gp value, Godly Realm, Remote Communication Saves: Fort +147 Ref +125 Will +126 Str 100 Dex 42 Con 62 Int 45 Wis 48 Cha 78 Alignment: Neutral Evil Cr: 125 Possessions: Storm Render, +14 darksoul protection demonmight ward ghost touch ethereal breastplate, periapt of wisdom +12, Cloak of Charisma + 12, Bracers of Ungodly Might Storm Render Storm Render is a malefic weapon wielded by the apostate storm giant Ra’va’grale the Godbane. It is a massive black greatsword that emits dark lightning from its blade. The weapon is a Huge +15 ghost touch deity dread unholy great sword of hellshock blasting and hellfire blasting. Bracers of Ungodly Might This smooth ebon bands are featureless and devoid of any color, however, their emptiness is only he beginning of their malignancy. They grant the wearer a +20 Vile bonus to Strength and make him immune to damage of a Divine Origin, such as a Divine Blast or half of a Flamestrike spell Spell- like Abilities- Caster Level 118th Dc 53 + spell level At Will- Wish (From Ur-Priest) 9/day-Animate Dead, Blasphemy, Cause Fear, Create Greater Undead, Create Undead, Death Knell, Death Ward, Desecrate, Destruction, Dispel Good, Magic Circle Against Good, Protection from Good, Slay Living, Summon Fiend IX, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Wail of the Banshee, Implosion, Mass Inflict Critical Wounds, Disintegrate, Prismatic Sphere, Earth Quake, Bigby’s Clenched Fist, Bigby’s Grasping Hand, Bigby’s Crushing Hand, Harm Blackguard Spells- Caster Level 30th Dc 29+Spell Level 7/7/6/5 1- Death Grimace, Bone Blast, Demon Flesh, Divine Sacrifice, Know Greatest Enemy, Resurgence, Strategic Charge, Blade of Blood 2- Bone Blade, Blade of Pain and Fear, Curse of Ill Fortune, Demon Hide, Veil of Shadow, Wave of Grief, Zeal, Hand of Divinity 3- Abyssal Might, Hell’s Power, Demon Wings, Weapon of the Deity, Unholy Storm, Fangs of the Vampire King, Mass Resurgence 4- Claws of the Savage, Vile Lance, Implacable Pursuer, Reverence, Lesser Visage of the Deity, Freedom of Movement Ur-Priest Spells- Caster Level 39th Dc 29+Spell Level 6/10/10/9/8/8/8/7/5/4 0-No Light, Resistance, Virtue, Inflict Minor Wounds, Cure Minor Wounds, Slash Tongue 1- Angry Ache, Heartache, Sacrificial Skill, Slow Consumption, Sorrow, Gravestrike, Omen of Peril, Resurgence, Night Shield, Conviction 2- Boneblast, Darkbolt, Sap Strength, Wave of Grief, Wither Limb, Curse of Ill Fortune, Dark Way, Infernal Wound, Iron Silence, Shroud of Undeath 3- Boneblade, Circle of Nausea, Clutch of Orcus, Flesh Ripper, Masochism, Sadism, Vile Lance, Wrack, Darkfire 4- Damning Darkness, Stop Heart, Castigate, Negative Energy Aura, Greater Resistance, Shadow Blast, Spell Vulnerability, Wall of Evil, Revenance 5- Charnel Fire, Heart Clutch, Morality Undone, Resonating Resistance, Mass Contagion, Doom Tide, Death Throes, Revivify 6- Thousand Needles, Barghest’s Feast, Opalescent Glare, Revive Outsider, Superior Resistance, Zealot Pact, Comet Fall, Ghost Trap 7- Bestow Greater Curse, Imprison Soul, Wretched Blight, Blood to Water, Brilliant Blade, Evil Glare, Withering Palm 8- Evil Weather, Befoul, Pestilence, Death Pact, Mass Death Ward 9- Apocalypse from the Sky, Despoil, Miracle, Spread of Savagery Feats(50)- Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Greater Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Greater Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Improved Critical (Greatsword), Improved Initiative, Power Critical (Greatsword), Melee Weapon Mastery, Slashing Flurry, Weapon Mastery (Greatsword), Greater Weapon Mastery (Greatsword), High Weapon Mastery (Greatsword), Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Extra Smiting (Gods) (2), Extra Smiting (Good) (2), Evil Brand, Dark Speech, Vile Martial Strike, Malign Spell Focus, Run, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Combat Reflexes, Improved Overrun, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Two Handed Mastery Epic Feats: Superior Initiative, Overwhelming Critical (Greatsword), Devastating Critical (Greatsword), Dire Charge, Epic Prowess, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Improved Combat Reflexes, Great Smiting (Good) (2), Bane of Enemies (Gods), Death of Enemies (Gods), Epic Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Epic Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Unholy Strike Salient Divine Abilities(11): Divine Blackguard, Irresistible Blows, Divine Armor Mastery, Divine Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Divine Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Divine Blast 21d12 9/day, Improved damage reduction, Indomitable Strength, Sunder and Disjoin, Annihilating Strike, Supreme Initiative, Murderer to those Divine (B) Murderer to Those Divine: A technique gained from his study with the deific vampire, Lord Raizil, Ra’va’grale has learned how to siphon a defeated deity’s divine energy and pervert it into unholy power of his own. He gains the Divine Rank of any deity he slays in combat, as an Antidivine Rank, which functions identical to Divine Rank but rather draws from cosmic forces of nonexistence rather than any inherent divine spark. This ability does not stack with itself. If two or more deities are felled by Ra’va’grale, he inherits the higher Divine Rank, along with all of their Salient Divine Abilities. In addition, his Smite Gods damage is tripled. Before you looms a terrifying, imposing being. He stands over thirty feet tall and is adorned head-to-foot in unblemished, sable armor that crackles with infernal power. His head remains bare and displays a wild mane of flowing crimson hair, so red that it is almost black, along with a matching beard. His skin is pale violet, like a lighting bolt as it splits the passionless night sky, while his eyes are a blistering, demonic yellow. He brandishes a massive, curved greatsword of terrible obsidian malevolence. Its entire length coruscates with nefarious potency and its edge is coated and stained with what can only be the blood of gods… I have yet to actually test him against any of my deities in combat, but I think he mihgt have a chance against them, although most them clock in around Cr 150ish. Let me know if he needs flavor text, since it'll take me a little bit to write it out. |
| Gemstone09-19-07, 02:59 PM | Alright, I fixed Divine Spell Resistance to 16 I'm still confused about Atheist Paroxysm. RIght now, it only works 1/day for a number of round equal to his Godslayer level. You want it always active? Also, am I reading it that the deity receives a single Rank Check to be immune to the ability, instead of ever round? And if its calculated that way (Dc 10 +1/2 Godslayer Level + Cha Bonus), its going to be very difficult for anything short of an Overdeity to make that check at all. That's why I was basing it on a Dc solely to his Godslayer Class Level, including the +1/3 progression after 20. Do you still think it would be better that way or should we try something else? Also, that's a neat idea about the armor. If I have time, I'll update his stats an post him here. Thanks again http://www.samcci.comics.org/reviews/covers/halfsize-thor127.jpg Okay, I completly misread the entire ability :embarrass I've read it through once again and I suggest the following alterations: Atheist Paroxysm: Once per day (and one more time per each five levels there after), the Godslayer can surround himself by a field which denies deities. This field emanates from the Godslayer and stretches for 10 ft. per Godslayer level. In order to affect anything inside the field (through the use of a spell, attack, SDA or anything that steems directly from the divinity of the deity), the deity must succed with a rank check (DC 10+½ godslayer level + Charisma bonus) each time it tries to affect anything inside the field. It lasts for 1 round per level of Godslayer the godslayer has. Divine spells cast by clerics or druids (and similiar mortal classes) aren't affected by this ability. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-19-07, 03:22 PM | Alright, I'll change those mechanics in. Just to clarify, you're reducing the area and making it harder to resist, right? Also, for the Rank Check, deities get a +4 bonus for each Divine Strata they are higher than their adversary. (i.e. a Lesser God gets a +4 v. a Demigod, a Greater God gets a +12 over a Demigod, etc.) How should that be handled for the Rank Check? Oh, and how does Ra'va'grale the Godbane look? |
| Gemstone09-19-07, 03:47 PM | Alright, I'll change those mechanics in. Just to clarify, you're reducing the area and making it harder to resist, right? Also, for the Rank Check, deities get a +4 bonus for each Divine Strata they are higher than their adversary. (i.e. a Lesser God gets a +4 v. a Demigod, a Greater God gets a +12 over a Demigod, etc.) How should that be handled for the Rank Check? Oh, and how does Ra'va'grale the Godbane look? Hmm... that's something quite different from how I handle it, but I agree it's a good idea to give +4 for each DvR status above... I have to think of that The Godbane looks good :) insanely powerful |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-19-07, 04:02 PM | Thanks Everything else look in order then? |
| Gemstone09-19-07, 04:04 PM | Thanks Everything else look in order then? Well, I'm no expert on game balance (especially at epic levels), but I deem it to be more balanced now than at the frist posting :) glad to be able to help |
| ArgulFraster09-19-07, 07:26 PM | Is there a good-aligned version of this class? I.E. one meant to take down evil gods? |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-19-07, 07:59 PM | Not in my version. My Godslayer's power is fueled by his absolute loathing of the divine and his insatiable desire to murder every creature with the divine spark. He's a cosmic serial killer who lives only for deicide. However, on dicefreaks, in the thread with the same title as this one, Mythmage saw fit to make a revised Godslayer with an alteration to some of its abilities, along with the removal of the alignment requirement. I hopoe that helps. Also, on the thread at Dicefreaks, there's a long discussion on exactly what you posted. So, here's the link, to save you the trouble. http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=8146 |
| JoshuaZ09-19-07, 08:21 PM | Whether this is an ok PrC depends a lot on how poweful you intend deities to be in your campaign. The lowest level conceptions seem to be close the Norse deities where Loki needs a magic item even to be able to shapechange, whereas higher level conceptions, if a mortal pisses off a deity, the mortal is dead with no discussion. Now, assuming your deities are more or less in line with the SRD deities I would suggest that at first level of the PRC the character becomes immune to the divine ability Hand Of Death and all similar abilities. If not, anyone after they take 1 level in the PRC will simply have some deity stop by and get rid of them. Second, the name "Atheist Paroxysm" is poorly named since Atheism has nothing to do with fighting deities, but not believing they exist. I would suggest replacing it with "Blasphemy Against the Gods" although someone else may come up with a better name. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-19-07, 08:50 PM | I was actually considering calling the ability Theological Nihilism, but since it isn't always active, I thought that Paroxysm would fit better for the name of the effect. And also, this is DnD, not RL. And the Godslayer is literally taking his Atheism, and his denial of the power of divinity itself, and making it reality for a short period of time, hence Atheist Paroxysm. Perhaps, Fulguration of Sacrelige? Or Gramaryre Maelstrom? Aegis of Execration? I suppose Denounce Divinity would work, but it sounds so simplistic. Ecclesiatical Wasteland? No, that doesn't sound very good... How about Impious Banality? Anyways, I don't see what the big deal about the name is, I mean, I myself am an atheist and don't feel offended by the term, but if it really bothers you that much, I guess I can change it. In my mind, I kind of see a Godslayer's ultimate goal as making the entire multiverse into atheists. Also, Ibelieve I said earlier that my gods, or rather, the Antedeluvian Entities, are 150 Outsider Hd Double Gestalts who get their Wisdom to their Ac and their a divine bonus on all their stats equal to their Dvr. Edit: That is a good point about Hand of Death though. Anyone have any suggestions? Of course, his Anathema Cloak prevents the God from locating through portfolio sense, so... |
| JoshuaZ09-19-07, 09:22 PM | I was actually considering calling the ability Theological Nihilism, but since it isn't always active, I thought that Paroxysm would fit better for the name of the effect. And also, this is DnD, not RL. And the Godslayer is literally taking his Atheism, and his denial of the power of divinity itself, and making it reality for a short period of time, hence Atheist Paroxysm. Perhaps, Fulguration of Sacrelige? Or Gramaryre Maelstrom? Aegis of Execration? I suppose Denounce Divinity would work, but it sounds so simplistic. Ecclesiatical Wasteland? No, that doesn't sound very good... How about Impious Banality? Anyways, I don't see what the big deal about the name is, I mean, I myself am an atheist and don't feel offended by the term, but if it really bothers you that much, I guess I can change it. In my mind, I kind of see a Godslayer's ultimate goal as making the entire multiverse into atheists. Also, Ibelieve I said earlier that my gods, or rather, the Antedeluvian Entities, are 150 Outsider Hd Double Gestalts who get their Wisdom to their Ac and their a divine bonus on all their stats equal to their Dvr. Edit: That is a good point about Hand of Death though. Anyone have any suggestions? Of course, his Anathema Cloak prevents the God from locating through portfolio sense, so... Hmm, I like Theological Nihilism. I shouldn't go too far down the road of discussing the atheism issue because those sorts of things can get threads locked, but I'm guessing that you aren't that familiar with many forms of religious apologetics. A very common claim among certain religious types is that atheists hate God or the gods. This seems to reinforce that sort of claim. Although I suspect that anyone who took that sort of claim seriously wouldn't be playing D&D, so I dunno. Lastly, deities (sensible ones at least) will have many methods of getting information that aren't directly in their portfolio sense. For example, many deities will be able to cast Legend Lore so just regularly they just cast Legend Lore on anyone who nearly meets the Prereqs for the class. There's one divine ability that let's a deity do this for free although it has some steep prereqs. Alternatively, if a given deity has a broad enough portfolio, they can just keep a careful watch on epic characters and if any of the epic characters drop out of their portfolio sight, something is wrong. Furthermore, as the PrC is set up, the character doesn't even get the Cloak until after they've got a few levels in the PrC, giving deities plenty of time for smiting. All of that said, here are my suggestions: First, swap the levels they gain Anathema Cloak and Divine Spell Resistance. Second, add the following to deal with automatic death affects and similar problems at level 1. Resist the Divine: Whenever any divine ability would affect the Godslayer, that ability would not normally allow a save, and it is an ability that can only affect mortals, the Godslayer may make a will save against the ability (DC equal to twice the divine rank + the deities charisma modifier). Once the Godslayer has succeeded on one such check against a specific divine ability, the Godslayer is immune to that ability from that deity for 1 week. Also, I'd consider making an ability that allowed a Godslayer's spells to do ability damage and ability drain to deities (maybe they gain a special metamagic feat that adds 3 levels to a spell? That way, you can't use the ability with bigs spells until your crazy epic, but it should still help out nicely in a pinch). Also, I would suggest as an additional prerequisite that the Godslayer should have some number of ranks in Knowledge(Arcana) since presumably the Godslayer needs to know about those very powerful things which are independent of the gods. Maybe 12 ranks in Knowledge(Arcana)? |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-20-07, 08:49 AM | Well, Theological Nihilism, while soundig awesome, sounds like its something he constantly generates, more like Godblight. And yeah, I'm not getting to RL religion here. But in DnD, how can one be a traditional atheist if one beholds a cleric calling down a pillar of divine fire from the heavens to smite him? The only class with any flavor like that that i've ever heard of is the Defiant in the Planar Handbook, which was one of the classes (among Blackguard, Ur-Priest, Antipaladin, etc) that I considered would lead to taking the Godslayer class in Epic Levels (although they obviously wouldn't have to) And interestingly enough, the Definat, because he refuses to believe in gods, is highly resistant to divine effects, so is it really that much of a stretch that the Godslayer, especially a Godslyaer like the one I posted above, couldn't inhibit a god's own divinity, making them too doubt their divine status? As to Knowledge Arcana, I believe I had it in the prerequisites originally, but took it out after discussion on Dicefreaks. As to the Hand of Death etc quandary, most deiities are incredibly vein, and would never conceive that as mortal could bring about their death. Don't forget, this class is only a metagame concept to reflect the deicidal lore that he's uncovered (which makes a good case for Knowledge Arcana too). I don't think a Greater God is going to take action even if the Godslayer starts bumping off quasi and demi deities, espeically since they won't know who did it due to anathema cloak. Sure, once he starts killing off the higher-ups, the oantheon heads might take action, but by then, it'll already be too late. And I, as a DM in an epic game, would be very hesistant to allow spells like Commune and Legend Lore and the like to fundtion for deities- Imean, what force are they exactly contacting to discern this lore. And I'm not chanigng Atheist Paroxysm, on the grounds that I've called it that for over a year now and don't feel like getting it confused with something else when I'm discussing this class. If its that big of a deal, do what they did at Dicefreaks and feel free to make your own Godslayer class that you feel would work better. There's so many different abilties that this thing could have that you could almost design a completely different class with the same title. |
| Orodruin09-21-07, 10:19 PM | Also, in my campaign, the gods, or as I term them, the Antedeluvian Entities, could pwn any would-be godslayers by sheer virtue of their immense hd and ability scores... There was a big flood in your campaign world? |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-22-07, 07:15 AM | The word means anceint, referncing a time before the flood of Genesis. Its just one of my favroite words |
| Orodruin09-22-07, 07:41 AM | The word means anceint, referncing a time before the flood of Genesis. Its just one of my favroite words Actually, it means "prior to", or "before", "the flood." To call something an "antediluvian" implies that there was indeed a flood for it to pre-date. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid09-22-07, 08:33 AM | I know that it means literally "before the blood" hence "ante- deluvian", I was going for a more metaphorical approach, i.e. predating the current world. Sorry if you have a problem with it. Do you have a better word that doesn't sound like its been used a thousand times? Edit: I quote the dictionary: Antedeluvian: –adjective 1. of or belonging to the period before the Flood. Gen. 7, 8. 2. very old, old-fashioned, or out of date; antiquated; primitive |
| Orodruin09-22-07, 10:06 PM | I know that it means literally "before the blood" hence "ante- deluvian", I was going for a more metaphorical approach, i.e. predating the current world. Sorry if you have a problem with it. Do you have a better word that doesn't sound like its been used a thousand times? Edit: I quote the dictionary: Antedeluvian: –adjective 1. of or belonging to the period before the Flood. Gen. 7, 8. 2. very old, old-fashioned, or out of date; antiquated; primitive I don't really have a problem with it. I simply thought it was a curious choice since it contextually refers to a particular event. Though taking this particular hobby into account, the term "Antediluvian" is more likely to evoke images of rediculously ancient, godlike vampires than anything else...:P |
| Aspiring_Lichlord03-10-08, 02:07 PM | holy crap, you've created a new class of predator, an anti-god perhaps totally awesome, I am inspired; now i just have to read all the source material so I can wholly understand what you've done |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-10-08, 02:17 PM | ^Holy thread ressurection is more like it. :D Or unholy as the case may be. :P What source material would you be referring to? If its the stuff in my sig, I guess thats a start, but its nowhere near finished. Although I was actually just considering writing a story about the godslayer in my campaign setting |
| Gemstone03-10-08, 07:00 PM | Thradis Attandor ...the one in the dark ...the wielder of the Aegis ...Mjölnirs Bane Thradis always was an unusual elf. A bit unhinged already from his birth, he became less stable when his parents was slaughtered by the priests of Lolth. Seeing his father, a high noble of the elves, and his mother, a grand priestess of the elven gods, slain without any help from their so called deities. Thradis was even more cracked when his beloved brother was taken by the priests and trained as a holy warrior, only to be killed in his first battle. That was enough for the elven lord. From viewing the gods as a mean of salvation, he started to see them as what they truly were... leeches on reality. He decided to do what he had to do... kill them... kill them all. Through the use of an ancient elven artifact, Thradis challenged the gods rule and despite the try of many heroes, he managed to annihilate his own reality through the use of something called Infinity Gem (a left over from Infity's first attempt to wipe the universe clean. See my own multi-versal setting for more info). The destruction of his home world inbued Thradis with powers beyond that of the mortal keen. he was transformed into a virtual paragon of his people as he contained all the life force in his universe... It took Thradis 400 years of floating around the void that once was his world to finaly learn how to transport himself into another world... there, he accidently ran into a demi-god, called Hercules. He slayed the would-be god (only that world's). Zeus, enraged by the murder of his son, confronted the would-be deity slayer in perosnal combat. In the much smaller world, the Zeus incarnation was weaker and was mortaly wounded. He managed to planeshift into another world and without his power, the titans escaped their prison. Togheter with Thradis, the Titans invaded olympys and slayed the gods. Then, Thradis killed Chronos and the rest of the titans before venturing off-world again... Today, Thradis wields a mjölnir hammer, imbued with the souls of an entire norse pantheon and he wields several other artifacts as well. His sole purpose? Destroy EVERY god in existance... Race: Paragon Elf Levels: Fighter 2/Barbarian 4/Ranger 10/Cleric 18/Ur-priest 10/Godslayer 10 ECL: 69 |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-10-08, 07:08 PM | Nice work Gemstone. Its awesome to see someone actually use a class Imade. I like his concept. Good work. Can we look forward to seeing his full stats in the future? (Or do you have them already?) |
| Gemstone03-10-08, 08:09 PM | Nice work Gemstone. Its awesome to see someone actually use a class Imade. I like his concept. Good work. Can we look forward to seeing his full stats in the future? (Or do you have them already?) Far from :) I just made up the backstory and statted out his levels and race... But I could do a stat up if you wish |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-10-08, 08:21 PM | That would be awesome. |
| The_Black_Hand03-29-08, 02:28 AM | How do you get a base attack bonus higher than 20? Once you hit epic you don't get any more base attack...unless you mean epic base attack bonus too, in which case you get into this at 34th at the lowest. It is still a base attack bonus, doesn't matter where the base attack bonus comes from. Ok now onto this PrC. No diety would allow any mortal to gain more than 1 level in this PrC. The instant they did (gain the first level that is) what ever God of knowledge would know immediatly and sound the alarm. Then all of Gods and thier minions would work together to immediatly kill said foolish mortal. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-29-08, 12:44 PM | Which is why, I THOUGHT i changed Anathema Cloak to 1st level and put Antidivinity to 3rd... but I guess I didn't. Consider it fixed. THere, he is now immune to a deity's divine senses and portfolio sense. Also, this class was made for my campagin setting, in which about 90% of the deities have already died, and the ones who are left are either too afraid to do anything about a Godslayer or too powerful to even remotely care. For more info, check the links in my sig. Although Murderer to Those Divine isn't finished, its a drama about the rise of the most powerful Godslyaer in my setting. Thanks for pointing out that error though, I could swear I fixed it. And yes, you need to be high epic to take the class, hence the massive attack bonus requirement. Edit- there, I switched Divine Spell Resistance to 2nd level and put Anathema Cloak to 1st. |
| Hellsbells03-29-08, 02:19 PM | Very cool idea, I like the theme even if its much to epic for anything I ever get into. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-29-08, 03:59 PM | Thanks. Who doesn't love a little deicide every now and then? In my CS setting though, between an entire "pantheon" of Antidivinities and a burgeoning order of Godslayers (led by the storm giant on page 1) being a god is not really a benefit as much as it is a handicap. |
| MadPrak_Mark203-29-08, 05:00 PM | Not bad, however the first problem with it is that the flavour text should be rewritten a bit because right now it essentially reads as "The Godslayer hatehatehatehate diediedie deathtogodsdeathtogods emomacabremorosebrood hatehatehatehate diediedie deathtogodsdeathtogods emomacabremorosebrood hatehatehatehate diediedie deathtogodsdeathtogods emomacabremorosebrood hatehatehatehate diediedie deathtogodsdeathtogods emomacabremorosebrood hatehatehatehate diediedie deathtogodsdeathtogods emomacabremorosebrood hatehatehatehate diediedie deathtogodsdeathtogods emomacabremorosebrood hatehatehatehate diediedie deathtogodsdeathtogods emomacabremorosebrood ...." and so on. The requirements are fine, I suppose, although I personally would design it for entry at level 21, maybe a bit higher, since there's nothing to do past forty and three levels into this, they're there. Oh, nitpick, magic, at least arcane(and possibly druidic), isn't made by the gods, even divine spells aren't neccessarily created by the gods, just given. But, this is just how it is in generic D&D, it may be different in you campaign, as it is in Forgotten Realms. Antidivinity and Favoured Enemy(Gods), they're fine, kinda cool in my opinion, but you may want to consider giving someother benefits with FE and calling it something else, but saying it qualifies them for the epic feats. Divine Spell Resistance: Here's a problem, because spell resistance is basically a DC for a level check, it means it's the number people have to roll plus your CR. This means that a divine caster has to roll a 16 to affect the godslayer... this is REALLY EASY for gods, up it to something difficult for them, maybe even just saying the Godslayer's SR is equal to twice their HD, which basically means they have to roll a number equal to the Godslayer's HD to affect him. The Smite: wow, very nice, I do like the fact that it does more damage to powerful dieties. After 20 levels, this bonus instead increases at a rate of 1 every 3 Godslayer classes, reflecting the massive divine power contained by Overgods and the like, whose divinity is intrinsic to the nature of Creation itself. huh? your meaning's unclear here, try again. Godblight: CHRIST!! that's damned powerful, you effectively give dieties a penalty to those rolls equal to THRICE their divine bonus(when effecting the slayer), up to THRICE you class level... that's insane, but... with your req.s, it comes online at level 47 or so, so it's not too bad. However, if you decide to allow access earlier, you may want to tone this down or make the class longer and keep this as an incredibly late game capstone ability. I kinda feel I was a bit harsh on the initial flavour, it's good, just rework it a bit so it's not hitting people over the head with the "I hate gods" thing so often. oh. How would this function against Archfiends? They have Divine Ranks(occasionally) but their not gods... |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-29-08, 06:02 PM | You seem to have missed the fact that this is for my homebrew, where Magic is in fact a force directly influenced by divinity. Also, I have deities with up to 60 divine ranks, so this class is far from uselss after 43 or whatever you said. Also, deities in my setting clock in at ECL 150, so once again, there's plenty to do. If anything, it can be accessed at TOO LOW of a level. Divine Spell Resistance... how is it easy for a god to roll a 16? To my knowledge, deities roll 1d20 for SR checks like anyone else. I kind of figured that they have less HD than their CR though since their divine template would imply a huge adjustment, thereby canceling out the Divine Bonus on SR checks. Which is later negated by Godblight. For Godslaughter, persoanally, I don't feel that the clause about Overgods is neccessary, since I don't really have a distinction between DvR 20 and DvR 21+ in my setting. It was put there so that, in a normal game, a 50th level Godslayer can't kill an Overgod in combat without gaining 3 times the levels he would need to slay a regular deity. Bottom line: I don't even endorse that clause, so make of it what you will. So, at 20 levels of Godslayer, you're considered DvR 20 for purposes of making Rank Checks to keep deities dead. You aren't considered DvR 21 until you have 23 levels of Godslayer? Any better? Or do you just not take Rank Checks or Overgods into consideration? For Godblight, yeah, its supposed to be powerful. On flavor text, you porbably took more time to write that unneccesarily-agrresive-in-my-opinion attack on it than I took to write said flavor text. What else did you want it to say exactly? Godslayers despise all things divine and gain their deicidal abilities from that hatred. I'm not including information about godslayers in my world, since I'm at least making an ATTEMPT to keep it setting neutral. On archfiends and the like, if they DvR they're affected. Or Cosmic Rank, or Virtual DvR or anything in between. Its the kind of thing that needs to be calibrated to the system you use. I also find you calling Godslayers "emo" to be incredibly insulting, since I envision them to more or less lack emotions entirely except for icy hatred (and perhaps arrogant exultation at their power over gods) I'm really at a loss at what you're looking for in the flavor text though. I'm not going to rewrite until i get a convincing argument as to WHY it doesn't function to describe what the class is, where it comes from, and what it does. |
| MadPrak_Mark203-29-08, 10:25 PM | You seem to have missed the fact that this is for my homebrew, where Magic is in fact a force directly influenced by divinity. I didn't miss that actually, I was more or less asking "in your game world, does all magic come from the gods?" Also, I have deities with up to 60 divine ranks, so this class is far from uselss after 43 or whatever you said. Also, deities in my setting clock in at ECL 150, so once again, there's plenty to do. If anything, it can be accessed at TOO LOW of a level. It's a comment about epic play in general, not your class. If you try to make characters above 40th level(that aren't gods) they have very little to get excited about because the feats give flat numerical bonuses that are too small at that point(yes, even the epic ones), classes just give more uses of abilities, etc. The only characters that get excited are spellcasters, and only if they have Epic Spellcasting. Divine Spell Resistance... how is it easy for a god to roll a 16? To my knowledge, deities roll 1d20 for SR checks like anyone else. I kind of figured that they have less HD than their CR though since their divine template would imply a huge adjustment, thereby canceling out the Divine Bonus on SR checks. Which is later negated by Godblight. Gods past a certain very low rank always score a 20, it is suggested they roll anyway to check for critical threats, but they still have a 20, regardless of what they roll, plus their mods. SR is #+(the CR of the creature whose SR it is), so a 3rd level Godslayer is walking around with SR 56, 40 of which is just his CR, and 16 of which actually needs to be beat by the god in question. For Godslaughter, persoanally, I don't feel that the clause about Overgods is neccessary, since I don't really have a distinction between DvR 20 and DvR 21+ in my setting. It was put there so that, in a normal game, a 50th level Godslayer can't kill an Overgod in combat without gaining 3 times the levels he would need to slay a regular deity. Bottom line: I don't even endorse that clause, so make of it what you will. So, at 20 levels of Godslayer, you're considered DvR 20 for purposes of making Rank Checks to keep deities dead. You aren't considered DvR 21 until you have 23 levels of Godslayer? Any better? Or do you just not take Rank Checks or Overgods into consideration? ok, that explanation makes sense, sorry I was just confused over what you were trying to say. That works. For Godblight, yeah, its supposed to be powerful. ok, no problem, it's epic level, the characters pretty much won the game at 15th. On flavor text, you porbably took more time to write that unneccesarily-agrresive-in-my-opinion attack on it than I took to write said flavor text. What else did you want it to say exactly? Godslayers despise all things divine and gain their deicidal abilities from that hatred. I'm not including information about godslayers in my world, since I'm at least making an ATTEMPT to keep it setting neutral. First, I spent hard any time on it as I C/P'ed. Second... I just think it's a bit too repetitive and redundant. On archfiends and the like, if they DvR they're affected. Or Cosmic Rank, or Virtual DvR or anything in between. Its the kind of thing that needs to be calibrated to the system you use. Ok, might want to say that, but it can be inferred too. I also find you calling Godslayers "emo" to be incredibly insulting, since I envision them to more or less lack emotions entirely except for icy hatred (and perhaps arrogant exultation at their power over gods) It was the bit about morose brooding, sorry, mainstream media and it's characterization of brooding as emo took over momentarily. I'm really at a loss at what you're looking for in the flavor text though. I'm not going to rewrite until i get a convincing argument as to WHY it doesn't function to describe what the class is, where it comes from, and what it does. It describes it perfectly well, it just needs some punching up. |
| Gemstone03-30-08, 07:05 AM | It's a comment about epic play in general, not your class. If you try to make characters above 40th level(that aren't gods) they have very little to get excited about because the feats give flat numerical bonuses that are too small at that point(yes, even the epic ones), classes just give more uses of abilities, etc. The only characters that get excited are spellcasters, and only if they have Epic Spellcasting. I disagree. In my games, we've reached ECL 35 this far, which has put us up several levels of power, but play isn't all that different yet if the players and the DM are on the same page :) ok, that explanation makes sense, sorry I was just confused over what you were trying to say. That works. ok, no problem, it's epic level, the characters pretty much won the game at 15th. That fully depends on how you play. Sure, if you do a Pun-Pun, you can "beat" the game at 5th level, but that's hardly the point... there's always something new behind the door, even at epic. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-30-08, 09:06 AM | Um... considering I have an 1.5 inch binder filled to bursting with homebrewed feats and prestiege classes for high-epic, I'm not too worried about running out of options at high levels. Plus, I'll be switching over fully to the Immortals Handbook when I Ascenion comes our. As for SR, I use the Dicefreaks rulings that Deities no longer auto-maximize d20 roles. Even still, that's still for Greater Deities only. I don't think a low-level Godslayer should be killing Greater Deities to begin with. So, DvR 15 is now a "certain very low rank"? :confused: Even in my setting, the low-rank gods outnumber the high-rank gods by a massive amount. Good luck winning MY game at 15th though. Most of the threats won't even notice you exist until you hit 70 or so. As for the flavor text, I'm still not rewriting it. And seeing as my mind isn't posioned by popular culture, I don't think of EMO when I think of brooding and morose cosmic murderers who spend their time wandering lightless caverns beneath the earth reflecting on how fallacious the concept of divinity is. As for being redundant, I fail to see even 1 adjective repeated throughout those paragraphs. And there really isn't that much to say. Godslayers hate gods. Godslayers use that hatred to gain an edge of gods in combat and eventually become their bane. Godslayers are the masters of forbidden and blasphemous arts. Godslayers typically come from X walks of life. |
| MadPrak_Mark203-30-08, 06:43 PM | Um... considering I have an 1.5 inch binder filled to bursting with homebrewed feats and prestiege classes for high-epic, I'm not too worried about running out of options at high levels. Plus, I'll be switching over fully to the Immortals Handbook when I Ascenion comes our. Ah. well then yeah, there'll be things to do. As for SR, I use the Dicefreaks rulings that Deities no longer auto-maximize d20 roles. Even still, that's still for Greater Deities only. I don't think a low-level Godslayer should be killing Greater Deities to begin with. So, DvR 15 is now a "certain very low rank"? :confused: Even in my setting, the low-rank gods outnumber the high-rank gods by a massive amount. I couldn't remember the exact rank, ok, so it's not that low... and you don't even use it anyway, so no problem there. Good luck winning MY game at 15th though. Most of the threats won't even notice you exist until you hit 70 or so. Good, I can beat efriit up for inherent bonuses to abilities, wish up +10 Flaming Power huge sized fullblades made of neutronium which I can weild with thor's gauntlets and chain-bind balors before I scry-and-die on those threats. As for the flavor text, I'm still not rewriting it. And seeing as my mind isn't posioned by popular culture, I don't think of EMO when I think of brooding and morose cosmic murderers who spend their time wandering lightless caverns beneath the earth reflecting on how fallacious the concept of divinity is. As for being redundant, I fail to see even 1 adjective repeated throughout those paragraphs. And there really isn't that much to say. Godslayers hate gods. Godslayers use that hatred to gain an edge of gods in combat and eventually become their bane. Godslayers are the masters of forbidden and blasphemous arts. Godslayers typically come from X walks of life. they're only masters of blasphemous acts because they kill gods, and even that's hardly blasphemous... |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-30-08, 06:58 PM | Editted. Gemstone is wise, I call a truce. Sorry for any impropriety on my part. |
| Gemstone03-30-08, 07:59 PM | There are ways to take down basicly anything at any given level above 20 because of the way the system works. What is a CR 150 challenge in one game, is a CR 50 in another game etc. So I suggest you agree on disagreeing before a mod comes and smithen us all :D |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-30-08, 08:06 PM | Yeah, that's veering off-topic anyways. Hell, veering? Bottom line, back to Godslaughter. (And note, that would be the SLAUGHTER of GODS, not the LAUGHTER of GOD as my friend insists on reading it. :P ) Question: In my setting, I have a system of "anti-divine ranks" that I use for abominatons and such, basically the antithesis of divinity. Should a Godslayer affect beings with this as well, do you think? I'm leaning towards no, since the whole idea of killing gods is kind of "deified" in these beings. |
| Gemstone03-31-08, 06:12 AM | Yeah, that's veering off-topic anyways. Hell, veering? Bottom line, back to Godslaughter. (And note, that would be the SLAUGHTER of GODS, not the LAUGHTER of GOD as my friend insists on reading it. :P ) Question: In my setting, I have a system of "anti-divine ranks" that I use for abominatons and such, basically the antithesis of divinity. Should a Godslayer affect beings with this as well, do you think? I'm leaning towards no, since the whole idea of killing gods is kind of "deified" in these beings. First of all, define anti-divinity. is it the opposite of divinity, such as matter is to anti-matter, or is it just a way to measure power simply called "anti-divine ranks"? Abominations are, as far as I know, "half-Deities" that are born from the twisted union of passion and divinity. This might be anything really, from a creator deity working in his forge to much or anything similiar. In that case, I say yes, they should affect them in similiar ways... On the other hand, if they really are anti-divine, that is, they destroy divinity, I say no. They should be the comedians (couldn't help myself) best friends. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-31-08, 08:15 AM | Well, its kind of hard to explain, but kind of the horrendous inverse of divinity, not mortality mind you, but equally powerful, just horribly perverse. Kind of like antimatter, I suppose, as long as you don't look at it that mortality is the opposite of divinity. And in my setting, abominations are mockeries of the gods created by the overgod of nonexistence to fight against them, since (i suppose rather cliche) he cannot create but only pervert that which is already made. So I think antidivine rank fits them, especially their leaders who have more than rank 0. |
| Gemstone03-31-08, 01:53 PM | Well, its kind of hard to explain, but kind of the horrendous inverse of divinity, not mortality mind you, but equally powerful, just horribly perverse. Kind of like antimatter, I suppose, as long as you don't look at it that mortality is the opposite of divinity. And in my setting, abominations are mockeries of the gods created by the overgod of nonexistence to fight against them, since (i suppose rather cliche) he cannot create but only pervert that which is already made. So I think antidivine rank fits them, especially their leaders who have more than rank 0. In that case, I think that they shouldn't be affected by the godslayers abilities, as they are not the same thing, but a mockery of the gods power. There should be another prestige class for that... maybe Holy Defender or something along those lines. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-31-08, 05:14 PM | I agree. The Godslayer fits right in with their line of thinking. I think he would view them more as potential allies then with the unquenchable hatred he has for gods. The storm giant example I posted earlier actually has an Antidivine rank so that's definately the direction I'll take it. As for your other suggestion, I really like that idea. The hard part would be to avoid making it a carbon copy of the Godslayer and coming up with a name. (Nothing wrong with yours, but I have holy and unholy gods in alliance against the Antidivinities.) I'll just list a few random ones as they come to me. Akashic Sentinel Aethereal Champion Seneschal of Harmony Sidereal Warden Astral Avenger Eternity's Magistrate Destiny's Intercessor Herald of Quintessential Justice And, I'm running dry here, let me know if there's any you like or if you have any other ideas. As for abilities, I'm thinking more defensive then the Godslayer, maybe immune to antidivine, vile, and permanent damage. I think if I go with, god-granted-but-not-divine power he could have some cool abilities to combat the Antidivinities. Maybe some temporal powers since a lot of them have control over time. We'll see, again let me know if you've got anything else.:) |
| The_Black_Hand03-31-08, 07:57 PM | It doesn't matter what abilities you give your "it'z kewl 2 kill godz" PrC. Any diety (unless newly ascended and completely inept) would have the means to notice a mortal that could be a threat to them. They would then let other dieties know this and hunt down the mortal in force and kill him in short fasion. |
| Gemstone03-31-08, 08:04 PM | hmm... I suggest that instead of actually slaying the anti-divine creature, the "god-defender" chains the creature when it reaches 0 hp or is otherwise incapacitated or destroyed. This could actually empower the class (why not even make it a requirement to gain a level? Every level you need to slay an abomination). For further "unique" mechanics, the abomination slain could determine the abilities such a class gets. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-31-08, 08:25 PM | Well you're free to disagree, I'm looking for helpful feedback though. Any particular reason why you think that? What exactly allows a god to detect an ascendent Godslayer? Once again, this class isn't really meant, at its heart, to be setting neutral, and the gods in my setting are fighting a losing battle against a plague of antidivinities as it is, so they don't exactly have time to deal with Godslayers. I'm really quite baffled by the reactions this class gets though. If you don't like, don't use it. Simple enough. It works fine in my games, but my games (and stories) are based entirely around an nigh-endless cycle of deicide. @ Gemstone: I think I get kind of get the idea of what you're saying, and it sounds cool. Do you think you could elaborate a little more? What do you mean by "chain" though? As in binds its power as his own or binds a la the Greek titans? That's kind of a cool idea, especially against some of the higher-ups which literally have abilities that say they can't die. How about say... a Divine Blast type effect based on the last abomination/anti-divinity slain that does 1/2 divine and 1/2 energy damage based on that "god's" portfolio? Might get complicated though. I also like the idea about keying the slaying of such anathemas to leveling up, but the class needs to be super good if that's the case. This is shaping up to be really cool idea though. Once I get enough solid abilites I'll think about writing something up. BTW, any thoughts on the names for said god defender? |
| Gemstone04-01-08, 08:34 AM | It doesn't matter what abilities you give your "it'z kewl 2 kill godz" PrC. Any diety (unless newly ascended and completely inept) would have the means to notice a mortal that could be a threat to them. They would then let other dieties know this and hunt down the mortal in force and kill him in short fasion. Actually, if he added "this change is retroactive and stretches backwards in time" to an "undetectable aura", that would help. Also, if this would be true, why doesn't deities hunt heroes and such in any game? Any PC is a potential threat as they can achieve enough levels etc. The simple answer is: because the DM says they can't. The longer answer is: bla bla bla bla [other deities preventing them] bla bla bla bla [other stuff that prevents them] etc. etc. I'm really quite baffled by the reactions this class gets though. If you don't like, don't use it. Simple enough. It works fine in my games, but my games (and stories) are based entirely around an nigh-endless cycle of deicide Many reactions come from people who view gods as unkillable, while the DnD gods is more akin to the olympian gods or the norse gods (which can, and in some cases will, be killed). It all boils down to the setting, but even those who think dieties can be killed will have a hard time with a PRC that completly revolves around killing deities. What do you mean by "chain" though? As in binds its power as his own or binds a la the Greek titans? That's kind of a cool idea, especially against some of the higher-ups which literally have abilities that say they can't die Something akin to that yeah... the deities should've built prisons or wards that can keep such a being trapped, without any ability to escape. My suggestion is that you make up a "choseable" set of class abilities that all have the requirement to slay an abomination of a special portfolio. Maybe something akin to: Air Mastery Requirement: Slaying an abomination of the Air-Portfolio At 5th level, the Divine Prosecutor adds his class level in the Divine Prosecutor to all damage rolls for as long as he is either under the affect of a fly spell or any other effect that gives him the ability to move around as if flying (he can't be touching the ground). Thus, my name suggestion is: Divine Prosecutor |
| DungeonOverlord04-01-08, 09:51 AM | God-slayer? Are you kidding? Annihilating strike, hand of death, life and death salient divine abilities and your god-slayer is dust, that just happened. Not to mention Rejuvenation, so killing is only temporary. I just don't see a character of 34th-44th level beating a god (given 33rd is the min level they'll be eligible for the class, assuming they had a BAB of +20 at 20th lv, and most deities have between 40-70 hit dice) I do like the IDEA of it, but I would change it so only an outsider can achieve such a class (It could be originally a human who's now become a fiend of some sort through a ritual or risen as a vile version of the saint. Plus there's something cool of a powerful demon or devil (or fallen angel) that challenges the divine right, could tie in with Orcus's story and the last word), I would also increase the requirements so one would have to be higher level. I just could not see a character with this class beating an intermediate or higher deity though, considering a greater deity always gets 20 on any rolls and have around 60 HD. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-01-08, 10:17 AM | ^ Feel free to change it however you see fit, since I use a lot of house rules when it comes to gods which deal with many of those issues. For a lot of them, check the deity rules at Project Dicefreaks. Plus, the only Godslayer in my campaign was already a 90th level paragon storm gaint before he took a single level. You do bring up an interesting point however. Would it be unfair to allow a 1st level Godslayer (or perhaps higher) to receive a Rank Check against those abilites, perhaps equal to his class level? Perhaps under Antidivinity? What if it nullified strata bonuses as well? WOuld that be too much? @Gemstone, that seems like it good work. So basically he gains divine abilites that aren't divine? That's cool. He'd make a great anti-godslayer then too. And I suppose he could have even more powerful abilities, since he would be required to kill a more powerful entity to obtain them. Would you suggest allowing 1/level? Or how should his progression work? Also, Divine Proesecutor sounds perfect. |
| M-bark04-01-08, 12:13 PM | Well, I like the fluff and what it's supposed to do, and I don't think it's necessarily much, but I do think that's quite a lot of strong abilities in merely 10 levels. Even in an Epic game, a Godslayer's power grows incredibly fast. That is to say, the bonuses he gets only work against gods, right? Not against non-gods (be they mortal or immortal)? |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-01-08, 01:38 PM | Most of his abilities affect only beings with Divine Rank or Cosmic Rank. (If you use that). Also, yes, he is immensly good at his job, but against a deity's mortal worshippers, he is virtually powerless (or rather gains no tangible benefit from his Godslayer levels) so it is therefore suggested that any would-be Godslayers have the means and wherewithal to deal with high-priests, arch-angels, and the like. (i.e., a party) Also, looking over it, I propose the following additions: For Anathema Cloak, add that a Godslayer is warded by a constant Nondetection Effect, which can only be dispelled by a deity with a higher DvR than the Godslayer's class level. And for Antidivinity, adding a clause that says, the Godslayer is no longer considered Mortal for the purposes of SDAs that specifically target Mortals such as Life and Death, Hand of Death, and Divine Supremacy. For Divine Spell Resistance, should it apply to Divine Spells (i.e. cleric, druid, favored soul, etc) or spells cast by Divine Beings (Boccob, Vecna, Wee Jas, etc)? Also, I'd like some more opinions on what a good value would be, taking Godblight into consideration as well as the CR adjustment of a deity's divine template. Oh, and Gemstone, for the Divine Prosecutor, how about giving him an ability like that every other level and then letting him pick from a pool of class abilities for the other five? (Just in case he gets unlucky or runs out of abominations to kill) |
| Gemstone04-01-08, 02:45 PM | Oh, and Gemstone, for the Divine Prosecutor, how about giving him an ability like that every other level and then letting him pick from a pool of class abilities for the other five? (Just in case he gets unlucky or runs out of abominations to kill) Yes, requriung him to slay an abomination each level is a good thing, but I remove my suggestion of giving him abilities per slain abomination. That would make for a truly clunky progression. Rather do what the archmage does. have a set of abilities that you choose as you gain class levels. A single ability every level should do. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-01-08, 02:58 PM | Anything you think he should get in addition? Or should everything be completely up to what abilities you take? Maybe he should have some similar protections to the Godslayer against some of their nastier abilities? |
| Gemstone04-01-08, 04:03 PM | Yes of course should it have some benefits against abominations. Maybe a special sort of favored enemy, some immunities and bonuses to saves. Maybe once per week giving himself Virtual DvR for a number of rounds equal to 3+cha bonus? |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-01-08, 05:53 PM | Okay, here's a draft of the fluff and the prerequisites. Excuse the lack of formatting, I'll fix it later. Please let me know if you think I should change anything. Edit- added a basic progression and some class abilities. I still need to work out the Divine Esoterica abilities. Let me know if anything seems out of place. Thanks. Divine Prosecutor In the blackest and most forbidden corners of the cosmos, there abide horrid entities so horrendously powerful and sublimely blasphemous that they may contest the might of the gods themselves. Be they ages-forgotten terrors or elder abominations born of divine decadence, these plague-born anathemas hold the power to drive entire pantheons to their knees, perverting the essence of divinity and making a vile curse of a deity’s quintessential power. However, the gods are not without their defenders. Neither mortal nor immortal, undying yet living ever in the shadow of death, empowered by divine puissance but born and culled from the ranks of the mundane, are the Divine Prosecutors, mortals endowed with supernal power to contest the might of god-slaying abominations. They are imparted with the blessing of all immortals and exalted as the saviors from the deepest depths of the blazing hells to the highest pinnacle of the shimmering heavens. Divine Prosecutors are drawn wholly from mortal stock, with no discrimination displayed towards either class or station. They are chosen from birth by the gods themselves. All classes can be found among the ranks of the Divine Prosecutors, and all races, including powerful outsiders such as Solars, Pit Fiends, or Concordant Killers. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus: +25 Feats: Gift of Faith, Words of Creation Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 24 Ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 24 Ranks Special: A character must have slain either an Abomination, an Antidivinity, or a Godslayer to take levels in Divine Prosecutor HD: d10 Full Casting Progression 1 Supernal Grace, Pious Resolution, Bulwark of Faith 2 Divine Esoterica, Smite Anathema 1/day 3 Akashic Mantle 4 Divine Esoterica, Smite Anathema 2/day 5 Sidereal Benefactions 6 Divine Esoterica, Smite Anathema 3/day 7 Sword of Heaven and Hell 8 Divine Esoterica, Smite Anathema 4/day 9 Aegis of Thaumaturgy 10 Divine Esoterica, Smite Anathema 5/day, Apotheosis Supernal Grace: A Divine Prosecutor gains a bonus to all of his saving throws equal to his either his Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma Modifier, whichever is highest Pious Resolution: A Divine Prosecutor is immune to fear and mind affecting effects. He also gains a Spell Resistance equal to 14 + his HD Bulwark of Faith: A Divine Prosecutor is considered Immortal for the purposes of abilities which target only mortals. Smite Anathema: Once per day, beginning at 2nd level, a Divine Prosecutor may call down Heaven’s Wrath upon an abomination. He gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to his Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma Modifier, whichever is highest, and a bonus on the damage roll equal to his Divine Prosecutor class level x either his Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma Modifier, whichever is highest. This damage is untyped and ignores Damage Reduction or Resistance/Immunity of any kind. Akashic Mantle: Whenever a Divine Prosecutor is exposed to an effect that allows as Saving Throw for partial effect, he takes no effect on a successful save and only half the effect on a failed save. Sidereal Benefactions: A Divine Prosecutor gains a +6 Divine Bonus to each of his ability scores, as if benefiting from the Divine Blessing Salient Divine Ability Sword of Heaven and Hell: Any effect previously usable by a Divine Prosecutor that functions only against a specific alignment (such as Smite Evil) is now usable against any alignment. Also, a Divine Prosecutor becomes immune to alignment-based effects, such as Smite Evil, Holy Word, a Holy weapon’s bonus damage, and the like. Aegis of Thaumaturgy: A 9th level Divine Prosecutor becomes immune to Death Effects, Negative Energy Effects, Level Loss, Ability Drain, and Ability Damage. He also treats Vile and Permanent damage as regular damages. Apotheosis: A 10th level Divine Prosecutor is immune to Antidivine Damage, as well as Hellfire, Hellshock, Hellrime, or Hellbane damage. He is considered to have a virtual divine rank equal to his Divine Prosecutor class level for the purpose of Rank Checks against Abominations and Antidivinities. |
| The_Black_Hand04-01-08, 08:41 PM | Actually, if he added "this change is retroactive and stretches backwards in time" to an "undetectable aura", that would help. Also, if this would be true, why doesn't deities hunt heroes and such in any game? Any PC is a potential threat as they can achieve enough levels etc. The simple answer is: because the DM says they can't. The longer answer is: bla bla bla bla [other deities preventing them] bla bla bla bla [other stuff that prevents them] etc. etc. Many reactions come from people who view gods as unkillable, while the DnD gods is more akin to the olympian gods or the norse gods (which can, and in some cases will, be killed). It all boils down to the setting, but even those who think dieties can be killed will have a hard time with a PRC that completly revolves around killing deities. First I have no problems with Players being able to kill Gods. I do have a problem with a inpractical PrC that is intentionaly designed to kill a god at 1st level. The thing that the OP seems to keep on missing that any diety that plans on staying around for any length of time will have many different ways to detect mortals. The easiest would be thier portfolio scense, That fails they scry, that fails they have thier non-divine class oriented followers try to divine them. If that fails they have thier agents scattered all over the damn place in order to gather information on possible threats. If that fails a God is going to know that something is amiss in his own domain, He might not be able to detect the "godslayer" himself but he sure as hell is going to know something is out of place. Basically the only thing this PrC is doing is stopping the gods direct ability to scense people via divine decree(sp). He still has Magic, he still has spies, hell he still has eyes. Do you honestly think that for an instant any diety will directly confront anything right away? No, they will send minions, and avatars after the threat. If and when those fail they will then seek refuge with thier friends. Now the god slayer has 2 seperate (or more) gods to battle at once. In short the "Godslayer" will fail and be killed. Yes, he might kill 1 newly risen diety, but thats it. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-01-08, 09:17 PM | Wait, so if a god sees that nothing is wrong, that must mean that something is, in fact, definitely wrong? Also, can I ask why the venemous condescension is neccessary in your responses? If I've done anything to offend you, I immensly apologize as that was never my intent. So lets see, if I add constant Nondetection at CL = to his HD, that should foil even most gods' attempt to scry him, let alone mortals. Anathema Cloak gets rid of Portfolio Sense and Remote Sensing, and Atheist Paroxysm foils their eyes if they ever get that close. How exactly is he being detected again? And unless their domain is "keeping gods alive in the immenent future" how do they know that something is amiss? Only a Greater Deity can perceive the future, keep in mind. And just because a deity knows about an ascendent godslayer, who's to say they can do anything about it? Even still, taking the first level in the class, from a RP perspective, is that he's just happened upon some fundamental weaknes in the nature of divinity. Why should that set off any alarms, especially if he is the first one to discover it? Who's to say he isn't allied with infernal forces who oppose the gods who will back him up if the gods do indeed send an assassination sqaud. Who's to say that evil gods won't try to use him to their advantage and aid him against the good gods? There's any number of reasons why a Godslayer should be able to make it past first, although I do need to work in those abilities I posted above. Bottom line, I made this class for an NPC, who, at the time of his taking it, had just witnessed the near-complete annihilation of the entire pantheon and was elucidated the fundamental weakness of the gods. So there are no gods left who can thwart him, and those who do know of his existence are too worried to come out of hiding. There are only 9 total Godslayers in my world, him and eight vampyric storm giants with max hp, who serve him. What god in their right mind wants to fight 9 Godslayers at once, even if they're only level 1? Any thoughts on the Divine Prosecutor though? |
| Lord_of_Vain04-01-08, 10:56 PM | I think the godslayer would be cool the way you describe it, as a NPC. They'd be something interesting to watch out for if the PCs ever went divine. This may not be the place to ask, and I don't want to sound like a noober, but I've seen Gestalt used a lot in this thread. What exactly is it? |
| pigsticker04-02-08, 04:39 AM | you do realize that by going against the gods, you lose all your spells and what not gained from deities? and being someone that plans to get godslayer levels, won't the gods recognize the intent in the character and take steps to prevent the character from acquiring the needed levels or even kill the character? Saying that, I agree with DungeonOverlord that only an outsider or a character gets involved in some cosmic event that changes the character to be able to gain godslayer levels? At least, in this case, not every mortal can aspire to be a godslayer. |
| Bloodsoul04-02-08, 09:31 AM | So, a deity can not see a Godslayer in practically any shape or form. However, if a mortal were to draw or paint a picture, sculpt a statue, or some such thing.. basically, make a reasonable facsimile of the Godslayer, would the deity be able to see that? |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-02-08, 10:20 AM | Let's see, I'll answer those in order. @Lord_of_Vain, Gestalt is a variant rule that combines two class progressions into 1, taking the best of both. Rules can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm#buildingAGestaltCh aracter) @pigsticker, Godslayer doesn't grant a caster level progression. Coincidence? I think not. Pretty much only an Ur-Priest (in a normal game) or a cleric of an abomination or Antidivinity (in one of my games) would retain their divine spells. Plus, shouldn't a Godslayer refuse to utilize divine magic anyways? And how, exactly, will any deity recognize such intent? Only Greater Deities can see into the future, and even then, only to a maximum of 20 weeks. Keep in mind, this was designed for an NPC who was indeed already far removed from the mortal spectrum. And also, any Godslayer who wants to stay alive long enough to actualyl slay a god probably shouldn't go around advertising their intentions. Even still, who actually believes that kind of boasting? Isn't it blasphemy for a cleric to believe that a mortal is capable of harming his god? @Bloodsoul, same thing. How would said mortal KNOW that the Godslayer is what he is? Is every antipaladin, blackguard, ur-priest, defiant, paladin of slaughter or tyranny, etc, automatically suspected of being a threat to the gods? What is it exactly that sets off the alarms? Honestly, a lot of these complaints are easily solved on a case-by-case and dm-by-dm basis. If you're DM is going to allow you to take the class, he's not going to smite you with the wrath of heaven. Also, I suppose a god could see such an effig,y but what about it would lead them to believe it to represent a Godslayer? |
| Lord_of_Vain04-02-08, 02:35 PM | I think the only alarms that would go off for a deity would be if the deity has already encountered or heard of a previous godslayer, in which case they would most likely always be on the alert for another. And from what I'm reading, godslayers aren't exactly common, as it should be. |
| M-bark04-02-08, 05:08 PM | You know, with some tweaking, or by starting from scratch myself and make a kind of "Godslayer" PrC myself, I think I could use it in my campaign, because I am planning to introduce gods, but they'll be different from how they are presented in the books and SRD, because they'll have a creature type of their own, and lose a couple of abilities. I think the Godslayer would work perfectly in a campaign like such. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-02-08, 05:37 PM | Sounds cool. Introducing gods as players or NPCs though? What level, too? Are you thinking of implementing Godslayer as a PC or NPC? |
| maddog071404-03-08, 05:11 PM | Prince of the Void. I like the class, I'm currently using your Ra'va'Grale god slayer NPC as a cosmic being from another reality summoned by Loki to challange the norse gods, that the PC's have to stop.... The only thing I changed was "Storm Render" Instead of hellshock and hellfire, I used sunder divinity if the diety makes his save vs. Deity Dread (Which the diety would anyway unless he rolls a "1" unless I'm missing something) by the way, what would that save be against diety dread on Storm render? Otherwise, I love the idea. Good Job!! |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-03-08, 09:57 PM | ^Sounds cool, and thanks for the support. About Ra'va'grale and Storm Render: Hmm... looking at his stats (which I'll admit I haven't in a while so I might be a little rusty) i think the standard dc for Dread (21 oe 23 or whatever it is) should be sufficient, considering you don't exactly want it activating often. (Well, he might, but balance wise) its just another added threat, since there's always the chance the deity will roll a natural 1. (especially under Atheist Paroxysm when they no longer auto-maximize.) Plus, it adds extra to hti and damage against gods, which fits his flavor. If you wouldn't mind, think you could PM some more info about the campaign? Sounds really interesting. If you're using Ra'va'grale in combat, (which I've only ever done once) a tactic I find particularly devious (assuming he can force a god into direct combat) is to activate both Atehist Paroxysm and Parallax Distortion (keeping in mind that Atheist PAroxysm doesn't interfere with his own Salient Antidivine Abilities) use Annihilating Strike on the ground beneath a deity and then dive into the hole and proceed to full power attack them (which he gets a 4:1 trade off on) The only way to really counter it is if the deity has a natural, non-divine EX means of flight. (say, Bahamut, for example) Also, if you're interested, in my sig, there's a link called Murderer to Those Divine. Its a drama I'm writing over in the Once Upon a Time forums about Ra'va'grale when he was still the high priest and captain of the Storm God's armies, and about his fall into deicide and blasphemy. The only thing though (if I ever get to the part where it matters) is that his sword will be named God Render instead of Storm Render for a whole host of reasons. I'm glad someone's getting use out of both the class and him though. Let me know who he performs. :D |
| Gemstone04-04-08, 02:55 AM | After re-reading Atheist Paroxysm, I'm no longer sure that it's actually workable or balanced. As it is based on charisma, it's not that difficult to make it near impossible for a deity to actually use any of it's ability. I suggest that either basing it directly upon the god slayers class levels (such as DC 10+2*class level, only 1/3 of class level above 10th) or something similiar. That would give a progression equal to: Level DC DvR 5 10 15 20 1 12 7+ 2+ -- -- 2 14 9+ 4+ -- -- 3 16 11+ 6+ -- -- 4 18 13+ 8+ 3+ -- 5 20 15+ 10+ 5+ -- 6 22 17+ 12+ 7+ 2+ 7 24 19+ 14+ 9+ 4+ 8 26 Imp 16+ 11+ 6+ 9 28 Imp 18+ 13+ 8+ 10 30 Imp 20 15+ 10+ Imo, that's a better progression. Rank checks are not like DC's, in the manner that they are very difficult (depending on the setting yes, but Deities & Demigods sets the ranks to 1-20) to increase, so allowing 10+½ level + cha bonus means that, for example, a character with high charisma will make it nigh impossible for even greater deities to use their powers. True, a very good godslayer can impede dieites, but simply negating their abilities with a single ability (and thus lowering their CR tremendously as many gods has a higher CR because of their DvR) is a bit unbalanced. So a static progression of 10+2*level works better. Decrease this to 30+½level above 10th, or even 1/3 of their level. Note: This progression gives a greater deity with DvR 20 55% chance to activate his divine abilities while inside the field. if he as to do this check everytime he activates an ability, it's much more fair than the current write up imo. As of now, even a simple +6 items forces a deity to have another +3 DvR, which is a tremendous increase in power. An epic item, giving a +10 bonus, basicly forces a deity to move up one step on the deific ladder! if there aren't many deities above DvR 20 in a world, a godslayer can basicly just improve his charisma for an auto-win in many situations. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-04-08, 08:01 AM | Hmm... I forgot we even added a save. I used to have it as auto-failure for any deity. :P Anyways, balance wise, I think your version is definately better. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, think you could work it in to the ability exactly the way you think it should sound and post it here so I can edit in? Even in my setting, gods above 20 are rare. TO my knowledge, there's, let see... a 40, a 30, a 25, and... that's it. And they shouldn't be impeded by a 20th level Godslayer anyways. Also, Gemstone, how does my (very early draft of) the Divine Prosecutor look? I still have to work out the Divine Esoterica, and I think I'm going to replace Smite Anathema with Chain Anathema, like you said, and make the smite one of his Divine Esoterica abilities. As always, thanks for the help, Gemstone. |
| Gemstone04-04-08, 09:11 AM | Hmm... I forgot we even added a save. I used to have it as auto-failure for any deity. :P OUCH! Now that is not balanced :P Anyways, balance wise, I think your version is definately better. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, think you could work it in to the ability exactly the way you think it should sound and post it here so I can edit in? Right now, I can't, but I'll try to pinch in later. Even in my setting, gods above 20 are rare. TO my knowledge, there's, let see... a 40, a 30, a 25, and... that's it. And they shouldn't be impeded by a 20th level Godslayer anyways. indeed, but with +cha bonus, there will be a possibility that (for example) a vampire sorcerer godslayer can have a cha of 18 (base) + 4 (HD) + 6 (cloak of charisma) +5 (Inherent) +4 (vampire) = 37, which ends up with a bonus of +13, which would put him, at level 1, a DC of 23! Also, Gemstone, how does my (very early draft of) the Divine Prosecutor look? I still have to work out the Divine Esoterica, and I think I'm going to replace Smite Anathema with Chain Anathema, like you said, and make the smite one of his Divine Esoterica abilities. As always, thanks for the help, Gemstone. Why did I manage to read that as Divine Erotica? Aphrodite anyone? Aaaaanyhow... I haven't looked at the draft. I'm gonna look at it later :) |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-04-08, 01:45 PM | Yeah, that ability should never have been based on Charisma. (Ironic that you're the one who suggested it though :P) I think it should be 10 + 2x Class Level +Class Level above 10th. I think allowing a check for every ability used is also a good idea. I also think it should specifiy that the diety doesn't get a strata bonus on the check (since the Godslayer doesn't have a divine strata) Reading over Godblight however, it seems like something doesn't make sense. I think I should cut the last line and add that he only affects 1 deity at a time, and every 10 levels after he can affect 1 more deity. But should the Antidivine bonus he receives stack or should he take the highest? I think the highest balance-wise. |
| Gemstone04-04-08, 01:50 PM | Yeah, that ability should never have been based on Charisma. (Ironic that you're the one who suggested it though :P) I think it should be 10 + 2x Class Level +Class Level above 10th. I think allowing a check for every ability used is also a good idea. I also think it should specifiy that the diety doesn't get a strata bonus on the check (since the Godslayer doesn't have a divine strata) Reading over Godblight however, it seems like something doesn't make sense. I think I should cut the last line and add that he only affects 1 deity at a time, and every 10 levels after he can affect 1 more deity. But should the Antidivine bonus he receives stack or should he take the highest? I think the highest balance-wise. Yeah... I can't recall why, but I think there was something strange with it back then... anyhow. Addind one to the DC for each class level will still qquickly allow him to ignore even higher gods power. I still think it's a bit to much :) I'll have to look into it, but highest makes sense |
| gravenhurst04-04-08, 02:45 PM | Thanks for catching that. Originally he gained abomination traits at 10th level, but it was agreed upon that such traits would be oxymoronical to his antidivine nature, as it provides Dvr 0. Also, thanks for commenting on my Godslayer, and feel free to use it if you want. Keep in mind that it does its job very well. Also, in my campaign, the gods, or as I term them, the Antedeluvian Entities, could pwn any would-be godslayers by sheer virtue of their immense hd and ability scores, not to mention double gestalt class features. Keep in mind a mortal has to level up to gain power, while my gods simply start at 150hd, so it really is only a threat to demigods and the like. Also, if you don't like it, or think its overpowered, I never saids that you have to use it. I know that some people don't like mortals killing gods, and that's fine, I justwanted some feedback. And also, if I was going to use this in an actual game, I would have the aspirant to deicide be required to somehow learn some fundamental secret fault within the nature of divinity itself, before he could gain the power to become a Godslayer. Thank you for the comments Please explain your double gestalt classes? |
| The_Black_Hand04-04-08, 02:53 PM | Any thoughts on the Divine Prosecutor though? Looking over this PrC, I'll give you my thoughts after I have had some time to disect the abilities and the over all purpose of this class. (no, I have not yet looked it over. I will edit this post with my opinions.) |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-04-08, 04:18 PM | ^ Keep in mind its nowhere near finished and that's just an EXTREMELY early draft. Likely the whole thing needs reworking. @gravenhurst, the gods have 150 outsider HD. They get 450 levels of virtual class features, none of whihc can be higher than 150. For example, say, (since he already came up in this thread) Orthru, god of storm giants. He functions simultaeneously as a 150th level fighter, barbarian, and cleric. Make sense? @ Gemstone, huh? I thought I restated the formula you posted. My mistake if not. I meant that it seemed ok. Or if you mean that's STILL too overpowered, keep in mind it was intended to completely shut down all of a god's options with 100% efficency. I'd say its considerably weaker. |
| gravenhurst04-04-08, 05:10 PM | 2 words...kratos....dude I thank you for giving me a reason to live. No seriously I do love it though( and am gonna use it for an NpC, in my recent campaign,if thats cool) Great example, Kratos! |
| gravenhurst04-04-08, 08:36 PM | The Godslayer class is neat for an immortal campaign such as yours. I have been intrigued with all the discussions of late about deicide, demons are devils, no more Abyss, no more gods of magic, spell plagues, etc., and I wonder if all this has been an external response to 4th edition changing things up with a cataclysm? I see the thread was picked up about 6 months later within the time frame of the new news! I for one have been on the same exploratory path for a world shattering or a new world beginning idea and all these threads have been helpful. My campaigns have always reached some form of a climatic conclusion but I always had the survivors start a new adventure the next time we played. I am not learning too much that I do know myself or that I couldn’t explore or research with my own library but it is satisfying to view so many in common with our hobby that are capable of deep thinking and over-analyzing our wonderful hobby. Great intellects! I just want to thank you all for divulging my “wee little noggin” with ample gaming ideas!:D I myself have never had a group make it to divine level (1st edition doesn’t count because in learning the rules you overlook the imbalance your game is when you are having so much fun battling your PC’s with Thor’s hammer leaving imprints in peoples bodies, or an elven deity permanently turning you green – his favourite colour – when you cross him, or a master deity of wrestling teaching worshippers how to stretch by leaving you in the pretzel shape. Ah! Those were the days, eh!), so I am envious of those making it to, or starting at, epic level. The Egg of the Phoenix module came close to epic level in 2nd edition when the PC’s had to tag team in stopping the Princes of Elemental Evil from uniting and changing their world into an orgy of battling elemental tempests. The PC’s won the battle with the aid of Doc (who would have been an epic NPC). The PC’s were ever peeved off, when their Titan ally took away the major artefact the PC’s never had a chance to properly use, to safe guard it from mortal corruption. :weep: Now back to the main point of the thread. How about using story arcs from the Elder Evils, Exemplars of Evil (ExE), and Lords of Madness handbooks as guides for non-epic PC’s to be challenged by a Godslayers coming doom? As an example, Shothotugg/Tharizdun (a Greater Deity Rank) is imprisoned and uses a minion of his essence named Shothragot/Godslayer (NPC epic level), who uses Captain Gnash from (ExE) to enact the ritual to enable the Godslayer to free his patron to perform mass deicide? The Godslayer is called to kill any deity that opposes it trying to free his progenitor. The prestige class could be applied to any (?) creature, thus you have many options to kill off a deity that sets off a chain of chaos within the pantheon, thus affecting the PC’s world. WOTC Essence of Shothragott CR 22 stats: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080318a WOTC Shadow of Shothragott CR14: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20071130 WOTC web enhancement Essence of Evil: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/duad/20071221 This adventure involves Lareth the Beautiful and the Essence of Shathragott. |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-04-08, 08:47 PM | Hmm... sounds interesting. I guess Godslayers (being rather infamous and notorious of nature) could make great over-arching nemeses for a campaign. Especially with a Tharizun-like figure in the background. (Nothing like a cosmic threat that requires the whole pantheon to subdue!) That's actually kind of the angle I designed the class from, for use as a vast unholy shadow to loom over the campaign world. Giving the Godslayer an actual aptron is a really cool idea too. (They have an entire pantheon of anti-divinities to work with/ serve in my setting.) The only flaw I can find with your idea there is that the Godslayer would have to be higher level then his master's CR to even take the class. :P (Or is that just an avatar of Tharizun? I never got around to buying Elder Evils unfortunately) |
| gravenhurst04-06-08, 01:07 AM | Hmm... sounds interesting. I guess Godslayers (being rather infamous and notorious of nature) could make great over-arching nemeses for a campaign. Especially with a Tharizun-like figure in the background. (Nothing like a cosmic threat that requires the whole pantheon to subdue!) That's actually kind of the angle I designed the class from, for use as a vast unholy shadow to loom over the campaign world. Giving the Godslayer an actual aptron is a really cool idea too. (They have an entire pantheon of anti-divinities to work with/ serve in my setting.) The only flaw I can find with your idea there is that the Godslayer would have to be higher level then his master's CR to even take the class. :P (Or is that just an avatar of Tharizun? I never got around to buying Elder Evils unfortunately) What is confusing, is, WOTC published (look at the spelling) Shothotugg in Exemplars of Evil, and then created Shothragott as a web enhancement. The latter Shoth is an avatar of the former Shoth, I assume. Or, in WOTC spin of it all, Tharizdun is the trapped Greater God who has a portion of his divine essence on the material plane (an avatar if you will or an epic NPC creature). Your Godslayer would be fine because he couldn't be greater than his patron because his existance is a minion under the pantheon radar, so to speak, to free the big daddy. The flaw with my idea of your idea is when do you cap your class? Balancing measure for prestige classes cap at 5, 10 and 20 levels before the character must move on, NPC's included! But for home grown campaigns, the sky is the limit! |
| PrinceOfTheVoid04-06-08, 08:23 AM | Reasonably, I'd say 20, but I suppose it could go as high as 60 or even 100 if you wanted him knocking off overgods and the like. (In my setting, the very highest is DvR 60, so 20 for the first 20 levels leaves 40*3 requires 140 :eek: levels of Godslayer to permanently kill him.) (Of course even then he couldn't do it) That is confusing about Tharizdun and Shothotugg. I see what you mean about how the Godslayer could exist as a direct servant of Tharizdun. i remember seeing his full-power stats over at Dicefreaks, which had him at level 100 or so, I think. Yep, or close enough. Cleric 30 WIzard 30 Blackguard 20 Legendary Dreadnaught 10. Here's a link (http://dicefreaks.forumz.cc/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=207) |