Hellfire? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Hellfire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Prime32
01-04-08, 03:54 PM I was curious...

I've heard of it (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3), but what can you tell me about it? (without violating CoC)
Kihon
01-04-08, 04:01 PM It has great possibilities as a major bad-dude to fight. Since characters will likely be resistant to fire, this might really surprise them. Have a few devils engage them in close quarters battle and the the Hellfire Warlock rain Hellfire on them from above (fly+improved Invis) - always a fun combo.
Prime32
01-04-08, 04:54 PM I wasn't referring to the class - I was wondering what people could tell me about hellfire itself (I keep thinking of the Amaterasu technique from Naruto)
RAGNAROKISCOMING2007
01-04-08, 05:20 PM basically its fire which ignores fire resistance and immunities. which would probably mean it's not an element but rather unholy energy.
mists_cloud
01-04-08, 09:18 PM From what I know it's an mixture of the coldest hottest element that was made by Asmodius, there isn't any resistance from it, I don't think Asmodius himself has resistance to it.
E'tii'stil Shadowsil
01-04-08, 09:37 PM Hellfire was/is said to be drawn from the very heart/core of Hell itself, dealing damage that may look like fire but is not subject to being reduced by any resistance to fire.
ZiggZagg
01-04-08, 10:31 PM I thought it was Mesphistopholes with invented Hellfire? Was the flavor changed in the Fiendish Codex II? The Book of Vile Darkness credits him with its invention. Same with Hellfire Engines
Jere_RB
01-04-08, 11:00 PM Yes, Mesphistopholes has the credit for its creation.

But, when you think about it, nothing in Hell happens without the express consent of Asmodeus. So, going down that angle, why would he allow an underling to create a weapon that even he isn't immune to? Why hand his lieutenant, who is always looking for a promotion, the perfect knife for his back?

Mmmm...intrigue on top of intrigue...
ZiggZagg
01-04-08, 11:11 PM There are machinations going on all over hell that Asmodeus doesn't know about. Granted he rules supreme, and probably will for somtime, but the power of Mephistopholes is not to be ignored. One of the greatest spellcasters in all of the Nine Hells, made himself immune to cold by just grunting through the colds of Cania (or whatever his layer is called), and invented a weapon that nothing is resistant to, and another weapon that makes enormous use of his first invention.
Prime32
01-05-08, 07:50 AM But does weakness to fire apply?
BowenSilverclaw1986
01-05-08, 11:39 AM Since Hellfire isn't fire, no it does not.

Bowen
Eldritch_Lord
01-05-08, 01:32 PM Yes, weakness should apply; from what I recall from Fiendish Codex II, it's still basically fire, it just ignores immunity and resistance to fire, so weakness, vulnerability, etc. to fire still applies. I'll see if I can dig up the description and post it here.
Shemeska the Marauder
01-05-08, 03:23 PM It's not so much that Mephistopheles invented Hellfire, but that he discovered and tapped into it, which I suppose leaves it an open question of its source and origin.

It's possible that it's a power created by the ancient baatorians, and seeing how many of them, and some of their cities even, are locked into the ice of Cania, it's perhaps not a wonder that Mephistopheles found something in the ice, and managed to tap into it. Perhaps he doesn't truly understand what he's found, and perhaps he's bitten off more than he can chew. Asmodeus might be even more clueless than the Lord of the 8th on the matter, given that if it's linked to the ancients, it predates even him.
Shemeska the Marauder
01-05-08, 03:29 PM ...
Shemeska the Marauder
01-05-08, 03:34 PM ...
Shemeska the Marauder
01-05-08, 03:42 PM 'druple post
Doom_Linnorm
01-05-08, 04:21 PM Canon its irresistible, but I personally allow fire resist to effect it 50%.
But that's because in my setting I look at it as a hybrid element of Fire and Dark.
This makes it a little less devastating to my PCs who will have to deal with it... SOON :devil:
E'tii'stil Shadowsil
01-06-08, 12:21 AM Given that the plane is rumored to be semi-sentient (I recall reading that in one of the supplements), could it be that hellfire is in fact the beating heart and burning blood of Baator itself?

I'd actually rule hellfire as dealing profane damage. This'd mean that even those who have immunity to fire would be dealt the full allotted damage.
Kain_Darkwind
01-06-08, 10:32 AM Yes, weakness should apply; from what I recall from Fiendish Codex II, it's still basically fire, it just ignores immunity and resistance to fire, so weakness, vulnerability, etc. to fire still applies. I'll see if I can dig up the description and post it here.

Wrong. As per the spell description on page 101 in the FC1, 'the damage is not fire damage'
Sinfire Titan
01-08-08, 12:48 AM It's not so much that Mephistopheles invented Hellfire, but that he discovered and tapped into it, which I suppose leaves it an open question of its source and origin.

It's possible that it's a power created by the ancient baatorians, and seeing how many of them, and some of their cities even, are locked into the ice of Cania, it's perhaps not a wonder that Mephistopheles found something in the ice, and managed to tap into it. Perhaps he doesn't truly understand what he's found, and perhaps he's bitten off more than he can chew. Asmodeus might be even more clueless than the Lord of the 8th on the matter, given that if it's linked to the ancients, it predates even him.

Rather difficult for something in Baator to be older than Asmodeus, considering the FC2 syas the plane came into existence when he fell from heaven.
Kain_Darkwind
01-08-08, 01:02 AM Rather difficult for something in Baator to be older than Asmodeus, considering the FC2 syas the plane came into existence when he fell from heaven.

FC 2, Page 5.

"And he [Asmodeus] pointed to an empty land, which is now called Baator."

"Once it [the Pact Primeval] was signed, Asmodeus, Mephistopheles and Dispater decamped to Baator, which was then a bleak and featureless palin. With them went a host of other dark angels that called themselves erinyes."

Elder Evils, page 145

"Eons earlier, Zargon had ruled the Nine Hells of Baator as father of the ancient baatorians, a long-extinct race that preceded the baatezu.....When Asmodeus and his allies seized the Nine Hells, they purged the plane of the baatorians, enslaving them and destroying their lords."

Sounds like you are wrong.
Shemeska the Marauder
01-08-08, 01:18 AM Rather difficult for something in Baator to be older than Asmodeus, considering the FC2 syas the plane came into existence when he fell from heaven.

The baatezu origin myth presented in FC:II is explicitely from the perspective and bias of the baatezu. Of course they wouldn't mention, or would downplay, the fact that Baator existed prior to their arrival, nor that it had natives with an arguably closer attachment to the plane than they did originally. There are other sources of information on planar prehistory than FC:II, and they paint a rather different picture, and one with a wider scope.

FC:II didn't discuss the Ancient Baatorians largely for space issues (as one of the book's authors stated). But the hints are there if you're familiar with prior material (such as the one ancient baatorian city in Cania, and that technically baator is admitted to have already been there in the origin myth, just not given any detail).

FC:I describes the ancient baatorians as LE counterparts of the obyriths (both creations of the baernaloths).

Elder Evils (written by one of the authors of FC:II) talks about a unique ancient baatorian.
sciborg3
01-08-08, 11:06 AM (both creations of the baernaloths)

Stop spreading 'loth propaganda and go work on your story hour! ;)
Prime32
01-08-08, 12:37 PM I can't say I know much about infernal history, but I've played Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark, and the ancient baatorians encountered in it do not seem to indicate an alignment of "Always Lawful Evil" - one is in love with a planetar(!) I'm not saying NWN is the first source to look to, but still...
sciborg3
01-08-08, 12:56 PM Zargon's tyrannical attitude is the only evidence we have for the behavior of ancient baatorians. Even in Planescape iirc there were the nupperibos who were ancient baatorian larvae (or something) and a dormant one that ate light.
Deacon Liadon
01-08-08, 06:37 PM I can't say I know much about infernal history, but I've played Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark, and the ancient baatorians encountered in it do not seem to indicate an alignment of "Always Lawful Evil" - one is in love with a planetar(!) I'm not saying NWN is the first source to look to, but still...

"For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Juliet and her Romeo."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Prime32 01-04-08, 03:54 PM	I was curious... I've heard of it (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3), but what can you tell me about it? (without violating CoC)
Kihon 01-04-08, 04:01 PM	It has great possibilities as a major bad-dude to fight. Since characters will likely be resistant to fire, this might really surprise them. Have a few devils engage them in close quarters battle and the the Hellfire Warlock rain Hellfire on them from above (fly+improved Invis) - always a fun combo.
Prime32 01-04-08, 04:54 PM	I wasn't referring to the class - I was wondering what people could tell me about hellfire itself (I keep thinking of the Amaterasu technique from Naruto)
RAGNAROKISCOMING2007 01-04-08, 05:20 PM	basically its fire which ignores fire resistance and immunities. which would probably mean it's not an element but rather unholy energy.
mists_cloud 01-04-08, 09:18 PM	From what I know it's an mixture of the coldest hottest element that was made by Asmodius, there isn't any resistance from it, I don't think Asmodius himself has resistance to it.
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-04-08, 09:37 PM	Hellfire was/is said to be drawn from the very heart/core of Hell itself, dealing damage that may look like fire but is not subject to being reduced by any resistance to fire.
ZiggZagg 01-04-08, 10:31 PM	I thought it was Mesphistopholes with invented Hellfire? Was the flavor changed in the Fiendish Codex II? The Book of Vile Darkness credits him with its invention. Same with Hellfire Engines
Jere_RB 01-04-08, 11:00 PM	Yes, Mesphistopholes has the credit for its creation. But, when you think about it, nothing in Hell happens without the express consent of Asmodeus. So, going down that angle, why would he allow an underling to create a weapon that even he isn't immune to? Why hand his lieutenant, who is always looking for a promotion, the perfect knife for his back? Mmmm...intrigue on top of intrigue...
ZiggZagg 01-04-08, 11:11 PM	There are machinations going on all over hell that Asmodeus doesn't know about. Granted he rules supreme, and probably will for somtime, but the power of Mephistopholes is not to be ignored. One of the greatest spellcasters in all of the Nine Hells, made himself immune to cold by just grunting through the colds of Cania (or whatever his layer is called), and invented a weapon that nothing is resistant to, and another weapon that makes enormous use of his first invention.
Prime32 01-05-08, 07:50 AM	But does weakness to fire apply?
BowenSilverclaw1986 01-05-08, 11:39 AM	Since Hellfire isn't fire, no it does not. Bowen
Eldritch_Lord 01-05-08, 01:32 PM	Yes, weakness should apply; from what I recall from Fiendish Codex II, it's still basically fire, it just ignores immunity and resistance to fire, so weakness, vulnerability, etc. to fire still applies. I'll see if I can dig up the description and post it here.
Shemeska the Marauder 01-05-08, 03:23 PM	It's not so much that Mephistopheles invented Hellfire, but that he discovered and tapped into it, which I suppose leaves it an open question of its source and origin. It's possible that it's a power created by the ancient baatorians, and seeing how many of them, and some of their cities even, are locked into the ice of Cania, it's perhaps not a wonder that Mephistopheles found something in the ice, and managed to tap into it. Perhaps he doesn't truly understand what he's found, and perhaps he's bitten off more than he can chew. Asmodeus might be even more clueless than the Lord of the 8th on the matter, given that if it's linked to the ancients, it predates even him.
Shemeska the Marauder 01-05-08, 03:29 PM	...
Shemeska the Marauder 01-05-08, 03:34 PM	...
Shemeska the Marauder 01-05-08, 03:42 PM	'druple post
Doom_Linnorm 01-05-08, 04:21 PM	Canon its irresistible, but I personally allow fire resist to effect it 50%. But that's because in my setting I look at it as a hybrid element of Fire and Dark. This makes it a little less devastating to my PCs who will have to deal with it... SOON :devil:
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-06-08, 12:21 AM	Given that the plane is rumored to be semi-sentient (I recall reading that in one of the supplements), could it be that hellfire is in fact the beating heart and burning blood of Baator itself? I'd actually rule hellfire as dealing profane damage. This'd mean that even those who have immunity to fire would be dealt the full allotted damage.
Kain_Darkwind 01-06-08, 10:32 AM	Yes, weakness should apply; from what I recall from Fiendish Codex II, it's still basically fire, it just ignores immunity and resistance to fire, so weakness, vulnerability, etc. to fire still applies. I'll see if I can dig up the description and post it here. Wrong. As per the spell description on page 101 in the FC1, 'the damage is not fire damage'
Sinfire Titan 01-08-08, 12:48 AM	It's not so much that Mephistopheles invented Hellfire, but that he discovered and tapped into it, which I suppose leaves it an open question of its source and origin. It's possible that it's a power created by the ancient baatorians, and seeing how many of them, and some of their cities even, are locked into the ice of Cania, it's perhaps not a wonder that Mephistopheles found something in the ice, and managed to tap into it. Perhaps he doesn't truly understand what he's found, and perhaps he's bitten off more than he can chew. Asmodeus might be even more clueless than the Lord of the 8th on the matter, given that if it's linked to the ancients, it predates even him. Rather difficult for something in Baator to be older than Asmodeus, considering the FC2 syas the plane came into existence when he fell from heaven.
Kain_Darkwind 01-08-08, 01:02 AM	Rather difficult for something in Baator to be older than Asmodeus, considering the FC2 syas the plane came into existence when he fell from heaven. FC 2, Page 5. "And he [Asmodeus] pointed to an empty land, which is now called Baator." "Once it [the Pact Primeval] was signed, Asmodeus, Mephistopheles and Dispater decamped to Baator, which was then a bleak and featureless palin. With them went a host of other dark angels that called themselves erinyes." Elder Evils, page 145 "Eons earlier, Zargon had ruled the Nine Hells of Baator as father of the ancient baatorians, a long-extinct race that preceded the baatezu.....When Asmodeus and his allies seized the Nine Hells, they purged the plane of the baatorians, enslaving them and destroying their lords." Sounds like you are wrong.
Shemeska the Marauder 01-08-08, 01:18 AM	Rather difficult for something in Baator to be older than Asmodeus, considering the FC2 syas the plane came into existence when he fell from heaven. The baatezu origin myth presented in FC:II is explicitely from the perspective and bias of the baatezu. Of course they wouldn't mention, or would downplay, the fact that Baator existed prior to their arrival, nor that it had natives with an arguably closer attachment to the plane than they did originally. There are other sources of information on planar prehistory than FC:II, and they paint a rather different picture, and one with a wider scope. FC:II didn't discuss the Ancient Baatorians largely for space issues (as one of the book's authors stated). But the hints are there if you're familiar with prior material (such as the one ancient baatorian city in Cania, and that technically baator is admitted to have already been there in the origin myth, just not given any detail). FC:I describes the ancient baatorians as LE counterparts of the obyriths (both creations of the baernaloths). Elder Evils (written by one of the authors of FC:II) talks about a unique ancient baatorian.
sciborg3 01-08-08, 11:06 AM	(both creations of the baernaloths) Stop spreading 'loth propaganda and go work on your story hour! ;)
Prime32 01-08-08, 12:37 PM	I can't say I know much about infernal history, but I've played Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark, and the ancient baatorians encountered in it do not seem to indicate an alignment of "Always Lawful Evil" - one is in love with a planetar(!) I'm not saying NWN is the first source to look to, but still...
sciborg3 01-08-08, 12:56 PM	Zargon's tyrannical attitude is the only evidence we have for the behavior of ancient baatorians. Even in Planescape iirc there were the nupperibos who were ancient baatorian larvae (or something) and a dormant one that ate light.
Deacon Liadon 01-08-08, 06:37 PM	I can't say I know much about infernal history, but I've played Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark, and the ancient baatorians encountered in it do not seem to indicate an alignment of "Always Lawful Evil" - one is in love with a planetar(!) I'm not saying NWN is the first source to look to, but still... "For never was a story of more woe Than this of Juliet and her Romeo."