I Request the Experts' Aid for Tanar'ri Lord Stats [Archive] - Wizards Community

I Request the Experts' Aid for Tanar'ri Lord Stats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
phaaf_glien
03-05-07, 04:40 PM Greetings all. I am a 2nd edition DM, and I am very impressed with the work you have all done compiling your lists and statistics of the powers. As a 2nd edition DM however, I am without real statistics for the gods themselves (not their avatars) in 2nd edition terms, and therefore I would be very grateful if anyone of you might give statistics for a greater power, and, if possible, a quasi-power, such as one of the tanar'ri lords (Lupercio in particular). If this is too much to ask, a guestimation of a greater power and quasi-power's hit dice, hit points, AC, THACO, weapons, damage adjustments and other basic stats in 2nd edition terms would also be much welcomed.

I am running a campaign where it might be useful for me to be familiar with these items... Lupercio might be one of the final villains for a very long story-arch of the campaign... but I must know how powerful he really is (I have been unable to find meaningful 2nd edition statistics for him).

Again, if any of you could help, I would be very grateful.

Great work all... these threads are fascinating.
Mirtek
03-07-07, 02:07 PM This is a very hard question, IMO it's basically impossible.

"This is because the power of the gods is such that it is impossible to quantify it.
Statistics quite simply become meaningless when dealing with the gods.", 2e Legends&Lore

The problem is that this quote is basically right, there is no way to stat the powers themselves without either making them very weak or breaking the 2e rules. Because 2e had fixed limits how far you could go with things like THAC0 and AC. So basically all deities would have AC -12 and THAC0 -10 (the maximum allowed by 2e rules) and the only thing left to make them powerfull would to simply give them 100,000 hp and 500 attacks per round. But I don't think this would help you.

The other way would be to ignore the limits for AC and THAC0 and simply given them THAC0 -95 and AC -115, but I don't think that really works either.
phaaf_glien
03-07-07, 02:31 PM Thanks Mirtek. Yeah... I basically agree with you, as I agree that the gods probably shouldn't be statted, in case you get any happy players daring to intimidate gods or the like.

Nevertheless, demigods actually walk around the Prime Material Plane, and it'd be great to have an idea of their powers.

Also, again, if anyone can help with statting 2nd edition tanar'ri lords (especially Lupercio), I would be most grateful.
ripvanwormer
03-07-07, 05:15 PM Nevertheless, demigods actually walk around the Prime Material Plane, and it'd be great to have an idea of their powers.

Certain demigods were statted in 2nd edition - Heracles, Iuz, and the Dragon Kings were a few examples. These were demigods not powerful enough to create avatar forms, so they had to appear in their true forms. They weren't, however, much (if at all) more powerful than typical avatars were.

They do get all the standard divine and demigod abilities, including immunity to death by anything save a demigod or greater. Iuz can be weakened by destroying the soul husks that empower him.

Also, again, if anyone can help with statting 2nd edition tanar'ri lords (especially Lupercio), I would be most grateful.

Graz'zt and Pazrael appeared in Planes of Chaos and Iuz the Evil, and those stats could be used as a model.
ripvanwormer
03-07-07, 05:39 PM I favor the interpretation that most 2nd edition gods don't really have "true forms" - the avatars are the most they're able to manifest anywhere. The rest of their essence is bound to their realms.

As for Lupercio, this is what I put on my site:

Lupercio. A prince, Baron of Sloth. Lupercio, a son of Pale Night and an unknown father, is the embodiment of the strength of darkness. He is the mother of neglect, the father of inaction, and the brother of uncaring. The darkness of his body spills for miles, with only his smiling maw visible to his victims. Shadow fiends cluster around him, eagerly feeding on his limitless shadows. When properly moved, he can strike with his fists for 9d10 points of damage, and cause earthquakes by stomping the ground. He can utter curses so foul that they sear the air and boil flesh. His home layer, the Slugbed, is covered with his filth and dung, but also contains clouds of radiance, beautiful forests and graceful castles - there is no overriding theme. Sometimes his presence oozes onto other layers of the Abyss; Lupercio seems to hardly know the difference.

I'd start with a slow shadow as a base, give him 50 or so hit dice, and let him either strike with two fists 9d10/9d10 per round (plus strength drain as a shadow), use power words, or create an earthquake effect once per round.
phaaf_glien
03-07-07, 07:10 PM This is great stuff Ripvanwormer... it'll definately take me in some new directions. Thanks for reminding me about the lords statted in Planes of Chaos... that'll be really helpful, along with your suggestions.

Thanks again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
phaaf_glien 03-05-07, 04:40 PM	Greetings all. I am a 2nd edition DM, and I am very impressed with the work you have all done compiling your lists and statistics of the powers. As a 2nd edition DM however, I am without real statistics for the gods themselves (not their avatars) in 2nd edition terms, and therefore I would be very grateful if anyone of you might give statistics for a greater power, and, if possible, a quasi-power, such as one of the tanar'ri lords (Lupercio in particular). If this is too much to ask, a guestimation of a greater power and quasi-power's hit dice, hit points, AC, THACO, weapons, damage adjustments and other basic stats in 2nd edition terms would also be much welcomed. I am running a campaign where it might be useful for me to be familiar with these items... Lupercio might be one of the final villains for a very long story-arch of the campaign... but I must know how powerful he really is (I have been unable to find meaningful 2nd edition statistics for him). Again, if any of you could help, I would be very grateful. Great work all... these threads are fascinating.
Mirtek 03-07-07, 02:07 PM	This is a very hard question, IMO it's basically impossible. "This is because the power of the gods is such that it is impossible to quantify it. Statistics quite simply become meaningless when dealing with the gods.", 2e Legends&Lore The problem is that this quote is basically right, there is no way to stat the powers themselves without either making them very weak or breaking the 2e rules. Because 2e had fixed limits how far you could go with things like THAC0 and AC. So basically all deities would have AC -12 and THAC0 -10 (the maximum allowed by 2e rules) and the only thing left to make them powerfull would to simply give them 100,000 hp and 500 attacks per round. But I don't think this would help you. The other way would be to ignore the limits for AC and THAC0 and simply given them THAC0 -95 and AC -115, but I don't think that really works either.
phaaf_glien 03-07-07, 02:31 PM	Thanks Mirtek. Yeah... I basically agree with you, as I agree that the gods probably shouldn't be statted, in case you get any happy players daring to intimidate gods or the like. Nevertheless, demigods actually walk around the Prime Material Plane, and it'd be great to have an idea of their powers. Also, again, if anyone can help with statting 2nd edition tanar'ri lords (especially Lupercio), I would be most grateful.
ripvanwormer 03-07-07, 05:15 PM	Nevertheless, demigods actually walk around the Prime Material Plane, and it'd be great to have an idea of their powers. Certain demigods were statted in 2nd edition - Heracles, Iuz, and the Dragon Kings were a few examples. These were demigods not powerful enough to create avatar forms, so they had to appear in their true forms. They weren't, however, much (if at all) more powerful than typical avatars were. They do get all the standard divine and demigod abilities, including immunity to death by anything save a demigod or greater. Iuz can be weakened by destroying the soul husks that empower him. Also, again, if anyone can help with statting 2nd edition tanar'ri lords (especially Lupercio), I would be most grateful. Graz'zt and Pazrael appeared in Planes of Chaos and Iuz the Evil, and those stats could be used as a model.
ripvanwormer 03-07-07, 05:39 PM	I favor the interpretation that most 2nd edition gods don't really have "true forms" - the avatars are the most they're able to manifest anywhere. The rest of their essence is bound to their realms. As for Lupercio, this is what I put on my site: Lupercio. A prince, Baron of Sloth. Lupercio, a son of Pale Night and an unknown father, is the embodiment of the strength of darkness. He is the mother of neglect, the father of inaction, and the brother of uncaring. The darkness of his body spills for miles, with only his smiling maw visible to his victims. Shadow fiends cluster around him, eagerly feeding on his limitless shadows. When properly moved, he can strike with his fists for 9d10 points of damage, and cause earthquakes by stomping the ground. He can utter curses so foul that they sear the air and boil flesh. His home layer, the Slugbed, is covered with his filth and dung, but also contains clouds of radiance, beautiful forests and graceful castles - there is no overriding theme. Sometimes his presence oozes onto other layers of the Abyss; Lupercio seems to hardly know the difference. I'd start with a slow shadow as a base, give him 50 or so hit dice, and let him either strike with two fists 9d10/9d10 per round (plus strength drain as a shadow), use power words, or create an earthquake effect once per round.
phaaf_glien 03-07-07, 07:10 PM	This is great stuff Ripvanwormer... it'll definately take me in some new directions. Thanks for reminding me about the lords statted in Planes of Chaos... that'll be really helpful, along with your suggestions. Thanks again.