Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yvain 04-27-08, 01:22 AM	My DM tells me that Hoar, god of revenge and poetic justice in the Forgotten realms setting is, in fact, turning evil, that his dogma has been revised and that it no longer charges his clerics and paladins with upholding justice and maintaining the spirit of the law, but now only concerns itself with the letter of the law and seeking vengeance at all costs, and no longer cares for justice. He says he has this from official sources, but try as I might I cannot seem to find any sources where this new dogma of Hoar is mentioned. If true, this would badly affect the character I am playing in his campaign, who is a paladin of Hoar. I have expressed my decision to never abandon Hoar, even if he would abandon me and turn evil, and although it might be interesting to role play the paladin of a fallen deity who refuses to give up on his god, it would also mean I´d lose all my benefits as a paladin (essentially becoming a Lawful Good fallen paladin, which would be a very rare thing). Still, I´d like confirmation on this new dogma of Hoar, and since I can´t find it, or any mention of it, I thought I´d ask if anyone here could point me to an official source stating this change in my in-game deity. Of course, if this is the way he has decided to make Hoar in his campaign, then there´s precious little I can do about it, whether it´s backed by official sources or not. Thanks in advance for your help.
Kain_Darkwind 04-27-08, 02:19 AM	I admit I've never heard anything of the sort. However, if your DM claims this is official, why not ask him which sources allude to the idea? Unless your DM plays a very "me vs them" type of game, I don't see why he wouldn't share the source material with you.
The_Shaman 04-27-08, 06:44 AM	I haven't heard it, and it seems quite different from the Hoar dogma in Faiths and Pantheons which stressed that Hoarites believe in the spirit of the law and not the letter - hence their reputation for avengers/vigilantes/troublemakers. As far as I know, your DM has decided to make his own version of the deity, that's all. OTOH, I haven't heard of paladins of Hoar either, at least not a serious order.
goldomark 04-28-08, 12:58 AM	I think your DM is just creating on is how. Which isn't a bad thing, the new options that open to you are very nice, but if you don't like them I think your character should at least have the opportunity to set his god straight. DMs and players should always get their expectations staight in the open, and everybody should try to have fun along these lines.
Orchomenos 04-28-08, 11:07 AM	In FR, do you actually need to have a patron deity to be a paladin? Or can you be a paladin to an ideal concept, as in Core? You could also deny the fact that Hoar is changing (whether this is Official, or just a DM plot), and keep all your power as a paladin of former-Hoar's dogma. With a little luck and work, you could even turn out being the new personification of "poetic justice" and "spirit of the law", and gain a Divine Rank... That would be quite a poetic justice against Hoar who betrayed you! :smirk: or rather :angel:, since YOU are still LG...
Kain_Darkwind 04-28-08, 12:42 PM	In FR, do you actually need to have a patron deity to be a paladin? Or can you be a paladin to an ideal concept, as in Core? You could also deny the fact that Hoar is changing (whether this is Official, or just a DM plot), and keep all your power as a paladin of former-Hoar's dogma. With a little luck and work, you could even turn out being the new personification of "poetic justice" and "spirit of the law", and gain a Divine Rank... That would be quite a poetic justice against Hoar who betrayed you! :smirk: or rather :angel:, since YOU are still LG... In FR, not only do you need a patron for paladin and clerichood, you need one to be a ranger, druid or any other divine spellcaster.
Orchomenos 04-29-08, 11:00 AM	...then perhaps turn to Tyr (or Kelemvor, if you want to stay with a LN god; he's a judge of some sort, and should bring justice), while keeping Hoar's former dogma. My point is, by turning evil, your own god betrayed you...
The_Shaman 04-29-08, 01:24 PM	That can make for a very nice story for an epic paladin... bringing your patron deity back to good - or at least neutral :) Anyway, yes, in the Realms divine power, such as spells, comes only from a divine being - a deity. Those who do not venerate one can't cast divine spells and iirc can not be resurrected by anything below true resurrection. On the other hand, it's kinda hard not to at least acknowledge a patron deity when there are so many and so obvious.
Auspex7 05-05-08, 04:28 PM	i've never liked the idea of paladins, clerics, etc abandoning their faiths. if hoar is appearing evil in your campaign, it's not an arbitrary decision to be 'evil'. it would be due to a philosophical change in the heart of the deity itself. presumably, paladins and clerics of hoar would be inclined to accept that their god had an epiphany that they were as yet unable to understand, but which would be revealed to them through the course of their service to him. lets say god were to 'go all Old Testament' on us, right? he starts sending angels down to the earth to rain fire, punish the wicked, etc. he visits famine and pestilence on cities, etc. these would be considered 'evil' acts by many, correct? to true believers, they would be considered justified acts of retribution against those without god in their hearts. the pope isn't going to jump off god's bandwagon and become a follower of Oprah because of this. he's going to try to understand it, and probably delve into his faith even deeper in an attempt to do so.
turalisj 05-06-08, 12:07 AM	Hoar is a *gets gunned down by FR fans before finishing*