Is there a creation mythology for Greyhawk? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is there a creation mythology for Greyhawk? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ElyasRavenwood
05-26-07, 01:20 AM From what I understand Greyhawk is the “default” world for the Dungeons and Dragons products right?
Is there a creation mythology for Greyhawk? Is there a mythology that explains the creation of the Flaness? The Creation of the Gods? The creation of the Celestials? The Creation of the Demons and the Devils? The Abolehts? The Illithid? The Githyanki? The Githerzai? The Genies? The Dragons? I am sure I forgot something.
any information would be very helpful. Thank you
ripvanwormer
05-26-07, 01:40 AM From what I understand Greyhawk is the “default” world for the Dungeons and Dragons products right?

Kind of. It's a source of proper nouns, primarily. Sometimes it's more than that - some of the designers, like James Jacobs, are pretty familiar with the world and try to incorporate actual bits of it - but just as often the proper nouns you see in core books have nothing to do with Greyhawk at all. They're just things the designers make up on the spot, and it may or may not be compatible with Greyhawk lore.

For example, Complete Arcane and the DMG II, have a bit of Greyhawk, while Complete Adventurer and Cityscape have none.

Is there a creation mythology for Greyhawk?

No, not one tied to the Greyhawk gods. The various races - humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and orcs - have creation myths in Races of Destiny, Races of the Wild, Drow of the Underdark and Races of Stone.

Is there a mythology that explains the creation of the Flaness?

Nope. It's hinted elsewhere that the Material Plane formed from the combination of the various elemental planes.

Dwarves believe the world was created by Moradin. Giants believe it was created or dreamt into existence by their creator god, Annam. Elves seem to believe the world was a collaborative effort, and Corellon Larethian played just one part in making it. Dragons believe the multiverse was brought into being by their god Io, who created first the First Void that allowed possibility to exist, and then the Second Void that allowed actuality to exist. See Monster Mythology.

We don't know what humans believe. They probably believe all sorts of things. Maybe they believe the world was created by Pelor and Nerull acting in concert, or by Boccob or Lendor or Istus, or by a variety of greater gods working together.

The creation of the Celestials? The Creation of the Demons and the Devils?

No. Here, the best source would be Planescape material - it's implied that there was a progenitor race of pure good, and one of pure evil (and one of pure law and one of pure chaos) who created the various alignment-based races.

But there's nothing tying any of this to mythology as it would be believed by mortals in the Flanaess.

The Abolehts? The Illithid?

The origins of the aboleths and illithids, and something about what other races believe about them, are discussed in Lords of Madness and in the 2nd edition accessory The Illithiad.

The Githyanki? The Githzerai?

The githyanki and githzerai were originally a single race descended from humans enslaved and modified by the illithids long, long ago. They were liberated by their legendary leader, Gith. One of Gith's followers, Zerthimon, claimed that Gith had descended into evil and tyranny, and he led his own followers to war against the loyalists of Gith. Zerthimon died in that battle, but his followers went to Limbo to become the githzerai.

We don't know if the people of the Flanaess believe something different. There are no human myths.

The Genies? The Dragons?

There's nothing about genie origins. Secrets of the Lamp says they're manifestations of magic in its elemental provinces.

Dragons were created by their god, Io, or they're the descendants of Bahamut and Tiamat. The dwarves believe they were sparks from Moradin's forge, transformed into living beings when Moradin blew on them to cool them.
ElberethSilverleaf
05-26-07, 02:12 AM There is no one "True" creation myth as they are all myths. Even with different races, different creation myths exist.
XHereticX
05-26-07, 10:23 AM I did recall something saying that Ishtar created the world or something. Pelor, Nerull, Obad-Hai, and Tharizdun also play large roles. And I seem to remember that GH has not 1, but 3 overdeities.
ElyasRavenwood
05-26-07, 11:33 AM Thank you XHereticX and ElberethSilverleaf for your thoughts and thank you Ripvanwormer for your thorough answer.
I guess at the end of the day, there is such variety because we as DMs are free to pick and choose, as we like. And without a "creation mythology" we are free to create our own.
Dunamin
05-26-07, 03:08 PM I guess at the end of the day, there is such variety because we as DMs are free to pick and choose, as we like. And without a "creation mythology" we are free to create our own.
Such is particularly the case for Greyhawk; the setting is deliberately designed with plenty of room for a DM to shape as he sees fit (unlike Forgotten Realms, where an extreme amount of the setting is given in great detail).
Frumpkis
05-29-07, 10:13 PM Presumably, all the human subraces (Oeridian, Suel, etc) would have different beliefs and creation myths.

The Living Greyhawk campaign, if you're into that, has done some fabulous work fleshing out the Flanaess. In particular, the region of the Duchy of Urnst has written up a Suel creation mythology that's really well done, IMHO. You can find it here: http://www.duchyurnst.org/Downloads/Metagaming/Metaorgs_2006.zip (open the "Duchy of Urnst Metaorg Book", and scroll down all the way to the 3rd-from-last page. It's under the org of "Temple of the Suel Pantheon"). Hope that helps.
El_Machinae
05-30-07, 07:58 AM Like in the real world, I'd imagine that there are groups that are rather interested in learning about the natural history of their realm and are willing to engage in expensive investigations/research to learn about it. And, like in the real world, I'd imagine that there are plenty of religious organisations who seek to hamper and restrict people from learning the truth (in the favour of their own 'truth')

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElyasRavenwood 05-26-07, 01:20 AM	From what I understand Greyhawk is the “default” world for the Dungeons and Dragons products right? Is there a creation mythology for Greyhawk? Is there a mythology that explains the creation of the Flaness? The Creation of the Gods? The creation of the Celestials? The Creation of the Demons and the Devils? The Abolehts? The Illithid? The Githyanki? The Githerzai? The Genies? The Dragons? I am sure I forgot something. any information would be very helpful. Thank you
ripvanwormer 05-26-07, 01:40 AM	From what I understand Greyhawk is the “default” world for the Dungeons and Dragons products right? Kind of. It's a source of proper nouns, primarily. Sometimes it's more than that - some of the designers, like James Jacobs, are pretty familiar with the world and try to incorporate actual bits of it - but just as often the proper nouns you see in core books have nothing to do with Greyhawk at all. They're just things the designers make up on the spot, and it may or may not be compatible with Greyhawk lore. For example, Complete Arcane and the DMG II, have a bit of Greyhawk, while Complete Adventurer and Cityscape have none. Is there a creation mythology for Greyhawk? No, not one tied to the Greyhawk gods. The various races - humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and orcs - have creation myths in Races of Destiny, Races of the Wild, Drow of the Underdark and Races of Stone. Is there a mythology that explains the creation of the Flaness? Nope. It's hinted elsewhere that the Material Plane formed from the combination of the various elemental planes. Dwarves believe the world was created by Moradin. Giants believe it was created or dreamt into existence by their creator god, Annam. Elves seem to believe the world was a collaborative effort, and Corellon Larethian played just one part in making it. Dragons believe the multiverse was brought into being by their god Io, who created first the First Void that allowed possibility to exist, and then the Second Void that allowed actuality to exist. See Monster Mythology. We don't know what humans believe. They probably believe all sorts of things. Maybe they believe the world was created by Pelor and Nerull acting in concert, or by Boccob or Lendor or Istus, or by a variety of greater gods working together. The creation of the Celestials? The Creation of the Demons and the Devils? No. Here, the best source would be Planescape material - it's implied that there was a progenitor race of pure good, and one of pure evil (and one of pure law and one of pure chaos) who created the various alignment-based races. But there's nothing tying any of this to mythology as it would be believed by mortals in the Flanaess. The Abolehts? The Illithid? The origins of the aboleths and illithids, and something about what other races believe about them, are discussed in Lords of Madness and in the 2nd edition accessory The Illithiad. The Githyanki? The Githzerai? The githyanki and githzerai were originally a single race descended from humans enslaved and modified by the illithids long, long ago. They were liberated by their legendary leader, Gith. One of Gith's followers, Zerthimon, claimed that Gith had descended into evil and tyranny, and he led his own followers to war against the loyalists of Gith. Zerthimon died in that battle, but his followers went to Limbo to become the githzerai. We don't know if the people of the Flanaess believe something different. There are no human myths. The Genies? The Dragons? There's nothing about genie origins. Secrets of the Lamp says they're manifestations of magic in its elemental provinces. Dragons were created by their god, Io, or they're the descendants of Bahamut and Tiamat. The dwarves believe they were sparks from Moradin's forge, transformed into living beings when Moradin blew on them to cool them.
ElberethSilverleaf 05-26-07, 02:12 AM	There is no one "True" creation myth as they are all myths. Even with different races, different creation myths exist.
XHereticX 05-26-07, 10:23 AM	I did recall something saying that Ishtar created the world or something. Pelor, Nerull, Obad-Hai, and Tharizdun also play large roles. And I seem to remember that GH has not 1, but 3 overdeities.
ElyasRavenwood 05-26-07, 11:33 AM	Thank you XHereticX and ElberethSilverleaf for your thoughts and thank you Ripvanwormer for your thorough answer. I guess at the end of the day, there is such variety because we as DMs are free to pick and choose, as we like. And without a "creation mythology" we are free to create our own.
Dunamin 05-26-07, 03:08 PM	I guess at the end of the day, there is such variety because we as DMs are free to pick and choose, as we like. And without a "creation mythology" we are free to create our own. Such is particularly the case for Greyhawk; the setting is deliberately designed with plenty of room for a DM to shape as he sees fit (unlike Forgotten Realms, where an extreme amount of the setting is given in great detail).
Frumpkis 05-29-07, 10:13 PM	Presumably, all the human subraces (Oeridian, Suel, etc) would have different beliefs and creation myths. The Living Greyhawk campaign, if you're into that, has done some fabulous work fleshing out the Flanaess. In particular, the region of the Duchy of Urnst has written up a Suel creation mythology that's really well done, IMHO. You can find it here: http://www.duchyurnst.org/Downloads/Metagaming/Metaorgs_2006.zip (open the "Duchy of Urnst Metaorg Book", and scroll down all the way to the 3rd-from-last page. It's under the org of "Temple of the Suel Pantheon"). Hope that helps.
El_Machinae 05-30-07, 07:58 AM	Like in the real world, I'd imagine that there are groups that are rather interested in learning about the natural history of their realm and are willing to engage in expensive investigations/research to learn about it. And, like in the real world, I'd imagine that there are plenty of religious organisations who seek to hamper and restrict people from learning the truth (in the favour of their own 'truth')