Kord and Orcs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kord and Orcs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ogrebear
04-11-07, 09:02 AM I was mulling a new D&D world a few pints with some mates and we where discussing the idea of having Grummish and his pantheon all dead after one too many wars on the other races the other gods, Epic Heroes etc had taken down the Last Orcish Horde and their Gods.

In their place we where thinking of having the Orcish race be spiritually directionless for a while until some of the other Gods picked them up as worshippers; mostly this would be the more evil gods, but we where mulling the idea that a more disciplined chunk of the Horde (more LE than CE) where converted to Kord... his portfolio with strength, discipline and proving yourself seemed to fit an Orcish mindset.

In the years since Kord worship has spread amongst the Orcs leading most of them towards Neutrality leading to a very different relationship between the Orcs and the 'civilized' races. I am still considering what that relationship is.

How likely does this seem? and how would Kord worshipping Orcs get on with the civilized world?
retillin
04-11-07, 11:07 AM I think it fits very very well. If you are just using the PHB and you play a half-orc you tend to worship Kord. So having a god come into a vacuum such as that feels right. Orcs are a strong race, so they would worship someone who is embodies what they are. So I think you are on the right track there.

How they would interact with the other races might take time to change. But lets say they stoped raiding and killing, then I could see them heading to a tentative peace with most races.
AQuebman
04-11-07, 01:15 PM Though the monster manual may describe orcs as being one particular way I personally assume like humans there will be differing opinions and personalities so I think your on the right track. I personally run a campaign with a town that's torn between followers of Gruumsh and those who believe in piece with the other races of the land. Keep us updated on how this goes if you stick with it!
WombleHunter
04-11-07, 02:07 PM the idea that a more disciplined chunk of the Horde (more LE than CE) where converted to Kord... his portfolio with strength, discipline and proving yourself seemed to fit an Orcish mindset.

The whole idea is very cool, but I would just point out that Kord is Chaotic Good, not Lawful at all.

With that in mind, you could easily see a more CN-aligned contingent of the orcs falling into Kord-worship, and that idea spreading until the tenets of personal strength and competition were primary factors in orc religious belief.

You could end up, eventually, with something like the Goliath tribal system described in Races of Stone: nomadic tribes of generally friendly outlook, but with nonlethal competition being the way that tribal hierarchy is decided, and physical strength/prowess the greatest ideal.

Mixing orcs (usually CE) with Kord (CG) doesn't lend itself to the emergence of "discipline", though ;).
Ogrebear
04-12-07, 08:58 AM The whole idea is very cool, but I would just point out that Kord is Chaotic Good, not Lawful at all.

With that in mind, you could easily see a more CN-aligned contingent of the orcs falling into Kord-worship, and that idea spreading until the tenets of personal strength and competition were primary factors in orc religious belief.
I was suggesting a more disciplined group of Orcs leaning more towards lawful evil than chaotic evil lead their kin towards Kord who's chaotic good nature is a good fit for them, I wasn't thinking of a wholesale conversion.

We where taking into account their old OD&D-AD&D2nd LE alignment and thinking that some of the surviving leaders might be more LE than CE; more brains than brawn if you will.

Mixing orcs (usually CE) with Kord (CG) doesn't lend itself to the emergence of "discipline", though ;).
I was thinking of the discipline that comes from strength training, the dedication needed, that sort of thing. It lends itself to structure in ones life even if part of the day is wrestling and drinking etc.

Kord's description (http://ratik.rpga-apac.com/content/view/50/39/) to me suggests more the gladiator, the trained sportsman, the martial artist rather than free for all brawler who has no training, no discipline to focus his strength and energy. Not that Kord's people can't party, can't fight, but its with training and the knowledge of how to fight properly.
WombleHunter
04-12-07, 10:01 AM I was suggesting a more disciplined group of Orcs leaning more towards lawful evil than chaotic evil lead their kin towards Kord who's chaotic good nature is a good fit for them, I wasn't thinking of a wholesale conversion.

We where taking into account their old OD&D-AD&D2nd LE alignment and thinking that some of the surviving leaders might be more LE than CE; more brains than brawn if you will.Sorry, I'm just not seeing how some combination of Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil end up siding with a Chaotic Good deity. I mean, this hypothetical faction of LE orcs you are positing oppose Kord's ideals on every alignment axis!I was thinking of the discipline that comes from strength training, the dedication needed, that sort of thing. It lends itself to structure in ones life even if part of the day is wrestling and drinking etc.

Kord's description (http://ratik.rpga-apac.com/content/view/50/39/) to me suggests more the gladiator, the trained sportsman, the martial artist rather than free for all brawler who has no training, no discipline to focus his strength and energy. Not that Kord's people can't party, can't fight, but its with training and the knowledge of how to fight properly. I see what you are saying, but I disagree in its applicability here. D&D doesn't have anything to suggest that Lawfulness begets ability. If you want to houserule in your game that Kord is Lawful Good instead of Chaotic Good, then that's a different story, but I don't think it hangs together all that well otherwise. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ogrebear 04-11-07, 09:02 AM	I was mulling a new D&D world a few pints with some mates and we where discussing the idea of having Grummish and his pantheon all dead after one too many wars on the other races the other gods, Epic Heroes etc had taken down the Last Orcish Horde and their Gods. In their place we where thinking of having the Orcish race be spiritually directionless for a while until some of the other Gods picked them up as worshippers; mostly this would be the more evil gods, but we where mulling the idea that a more disciplined chunk of the Horde (more LE than CE) where converted to Kord... his portfolio with strength, discipline and proving yourself seemed to fit an Orcish mindset. In the years since Kord worship has spread amongst the Orcs leading most of them towards Neutrality leading to a very different relationship between the Orcs and the 'civilized' races. I am still considering what that relationship is. How likely does this seem? and how would Kord worshipping Orcs get on with the civilized world?
retillin 04-11-07, 11:07 AM	I think it fits very very well. If you are just using the PHB and you play a half-orc you tend to worship Kord. So having a god come into a vacuum such as that feels right. Orcs are a strong race, so they would worship someone who is embodies what they are. So I think you are on the right track there. How they would interact with the other races might take time to change. But lets say they stoped raiding and killing, then I could see them heading to a tentative peace with most races.
AQuebman 04-11-07, 01:15 PM	Though the monster manual may describe orcs as being one particular way I personally assume like humans there will be differing opinions and personalities so I think your on the right track. I personally run a campaign with a town that's torn between followers of Gruumsh and those who believe in piece with the other races of the land. Keep us updated on how this goes if you stick with it!
WombleHunter 04-11-07, 02:07 PM	the idea that a more disciplined chunk of the Horde (more LE than CE) where converted to Kord... his portfolio with strength, discipline and proving yourself seemed to fit an Orcish mindset. The whole idea is very cool, but I would just point out that Kord is Chaotic Good, not Lawful at all. With that in mind, you could easily see a more CN-aligned contingent of the orcs falling into Kord-worship, and that idea spreading until the tenets of personal strength and competition were primary factors in orc religious belief. You could end up, eventually, with something like the Goliath tribal system described in Races of Stone: nomadic tribes of generally friendly outlook, but with nonlethal competition being the way that tribal hierarchy is decided, and physical strength/prowess the greatest ideal. Mixing orcs (usually CE) with Kord (CG) doesn't lend itself to the emergence of "discipline", though ;).
Ogrebear 04-12-07, 08:58 AM	The whole idea is very cool, but I would just point out that Kord is Chaotic Good, not Lawful at all. With that in mind, you could easily see a more CN-aligned contingent of the orcs falling into Kord-worship, and that idea spreading until the tenets of personal strength and competition were primary factors in orc religious belief. I was suggesting a more disciplined group of Orcs leaning more towards lawful evil than chaotic evil lead their kin towards Kord who's chaotic good nature is a good fit for them, I wasn't thinking of a wholesale conversion. We where taking into account their old OD&D-AD&D2nd LE alignment and thinking that some of the surviving leaders might be more LE than CE; more brains than brawn if you will. Mixing orcs (usually CE) with Kord (CG) doesn't lend itself to the emergence of "discipline", though ;). I was thinking of the discipline that comes from strength training, the dedication needed, that sort of thing. It lends itself to structure in ones life even if part of the day is wrestling and drinking etc. Kord's description (http://ratik.rpga-apac.com/content/view/50/39/) to me suggests more the gladiator, the trained sportsman, the martial artist rather than free for all brawler who has no training, no discipline to focus his strength and energy. Not that Kord's people can't party, can't fight, but its with training and the knowledge of how to fight properly.
WombleHunter 04-12-07, 10:01 AM	I was suggesting a more disciplined group of Orcs leaning more towards lawful evil than chaotic evil lead their kin towards Kord who's chaotic good nature is a good fit for them, I wasn't thinking of a wholesale conversion. We where taking into account their old OD&D-AD&D2nd LE alignment and thinking that some of the surviving leaders might be more LE than CE; more brains than brawn if you will.Sorry, I'm just not seeing how some combination of Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil end up siding with a Chaotic Good deity. I mean, this hypothetical faction of LE orcs you are positing oppose Kord's ideals on every alignment axis!I was thinking of the discipline that comes from strength training, the dedication needed, that sort of thing. It lends itself to structure in ones life even if part of the day is wrestling and drinking etc. Kord's description (http://ratik.rpga-apac.com/content/view/50/39/) to me suggests more the gladiator, the trained sportsman, the martial artist rather than free for all brawler who has no training, no discipline to focus his strength and energy. Not that Kord's people can't party, can't fight, but its with training and the knowledge of how to fight properly. I see what you are saying, but I disagree in its applicability here. D&D doesn't have anything to suggest that Lawfulness begets ability. If you want to houserule in your game that Kord is Lawful Good instead of Chaotic Good, then that's a different story, but I don't think it hangs together all that well otherwise. :)