Melee out of the Ethereal Plane [Archive] - Wizards Community

Melee out of the Ethereal Plane [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Angus Cotton
07-23-07, 01:03 AM Just for my info, I have a player in my group that wants to walk around in the Ethereal Plane and use a Ghost Touch weapon to attack creatures on the Material Plane. Is this possible?

I know it works the other way around, but I never thought of a character being so inventive as to reverse the process. I searched the SRD and found some interesting rules that might apply but nothing definitive. This includes (from SRD):

While it is possible to see into the Material Plane from the Ethereal Plane, the Ethereal Plane is usually invisible to those on the Material Plane. Normally, creatures on the Ethereal Plane cannot attack creatures on the Material Plane, and vice versa...While it’s possible to hit ethereal enemies with a force spell cast on the Material Plane, the reverse isn’t possible. No magical attacks cross from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane, including force attacks.

and...

A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. (An incorporeal creature’s 50% chance to avoid damage does not apply to attacks with ghost touch weapons.) The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.

So is this legal what the player wants to do?
Franco Un-American
07-23-07, 03:15 AM No. Incoporeal is not synonymous with ethereal. They are two separate conditions, and ghost touch does not allow ethereal creatures to attack material ones.
ArcTan
07-23-07, 07:09 AM Just for my info, I have a player in my group that wants to walk around in the Ethereal Plane and use a Ghost Touch weapon to attack creatures on the Material Plane. Is this possible?

I know it works the other way around, but I never thought of a character being so inventive as to reverse the process. I searched the SRD and found some interesting rules that might apply but nothing definitive. This includes (from SRD):

and...

So is this legal what the player wants to do?

You have Ethereal and Incorporeal mixed up.

Incorporeal creatures are *on* the Material Plane, they're just incorporeal. Ethereal creatures are creatures that are on the Ethereal Plane. This is not the same thing. Some ethereal creatures, like Ghosts, have the ability to manifest in incorporeal forms on the Material from the Ethereal, but this is an ability specific to them -- and the incorporeal form is a sort of projection of the Ghost's real form on the Ethereal Plane, which is *corporeal*. (That is, if you *go* to the Ethereal Plane you can beat up a Ghost physically just like anything else.)

It is impossible to attack a truly ethereal creature from the Material Plane using any kind of weapon at all. *Only* force effects like magic missile can cross over. Ghost touch only lets you fight Ghosts who have chosen to materialize. If the Ghost de-manifests and flees back to the Ethereal, you simply can't touch it at all, except by finding it with see invisibility and casting magic missile at it, or by following it into the Ethereal.
redscizor
07-24-07, 01:16 PM but
If a ghost on the Ethereal Plane has ghost touch equipment with it on that plane, however, then it uses ghost touch weaponry as a corporeal creature on the Material Plane does when attacking a foe on the Material Plane. (That is, the ghost has no miss chance, it makes a regular attack that must deal with the target's armor, and the ghost's Strength score applies to the attack and damage rolls.)

i love me succubus ethereal jaunt and use a sword ghost touch,
Orchomenos
07-26-07, 10:17 AM but

i love me succubus ethereal jaunt and use a sword ghost touch,

redscizor, where is your quote coming from?

This quote is from the Ghost entry in the SRD:
A manifested ghost can strike with its touch attack or with a ghost touch weapon (see Ghostly Equipment, below).

(...)
Ghostly Equipment
When a ghost forms, all its equipment and carried items usually become ethereal along with it. In addition, the ghost retains 2d4 items that it particularly valued in life (provided they are not in another creature’s possession). The equipment works normally on the Ethereal Plane but passes harmlessly through material objects or creatures. A weapon of +1 or better magical enhancement, however, can harm material creatures when the ghost manifests, but any such attack has a 50% chance to fail unless the weapon is a ghost touch weapon (just as magic weapons can fail to harm the ghost).

The original material items remain behind, just as the ghost’s physical remains do. If another creature seizes the original, the ethereal copy fades away. This loss invariably angers the ghost, who stops at nothing to return the item to its original resting place.
The ghost can use his ghost touch weapon, but only when he is Manifested, that is, only when he is Incorporeal, not merely Ethereal.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Angus Cotton 07-23-07, 01:03 AM	Just for my info, I have a player in my group that wants to walk around in the Ethereal Plane and use a Ghost Touch weapon to attack creatures on the Material Plane. Is this possible? I know it works the other way around, but I never thought of a character being so inventive as to reverse the process. I searched the SRD and found some interesting rules that might apply but nothing definitive. This includes (from SRD): While it is possible to see into the Material Plane from the Ethereal Plane, the Ethereal Plane is usually invisible to those on the Material Plane. Normally, creatures on the Ethereal Plane cannot attack creatures on the Material Plane, and vice versa...While it’s possible to hit ethereal enemies with a force spell cast on the Material Plane, the reverse isn’t possible. No magical attacks cross from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane, including force attacks. and... A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. (An incorporeal creature’s 50% chance to avoid damage does not apply to attacks with ghost touch weapons.) The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder. So is this legal what the player wants to do?
Franco Un-American 07-23-07, 03:15 AM	No. Incoporeal is not synonymous with ethereal. They are two separate conditions, and ghost touch does not allow ethereal creatures to attack material ones.
ArcTan 07-23-07, 07:09 AM	Just for my info, I have a player in my group that wants to walk around in the Ethereal Plane and use a Ghost Touch weapon to attack creatures on the Material Plane. Is this possible? I know it works the other way around, but I never thought of a character being so inventive as to reverse the process. I searched the SRD and found some interesting rules that might apply but nothing definitive. This includes (from SRD): and... So is this legal what the player wants to do? You have Ethereal and Incorporeal mixed up. Incorporeal creatures are on the Material Plane, they're just incorporeal. Ethereal creatures are creatures that are on the Ethereal Plane. This is not the same thing. Some ethereal creatures, like Ghosts, have the ability to manifest in incorporeal forms on the Material from the Ethereal, but this is an ability specific to them -- and the incorporeal form is a sort of projection of the Ghost's real form on the Ethereal Plane, which is corporeal. (That is, if you go to the Ethereal Plane you can beat up a Ghost physically just like anything else.) It is impossible to attack a truly ethereal creature from the Material Plane using any kind of weapon at all. Only force effects like magic missile can cross over. Ghost touch only lets you fight Ghosts who have chosen to materialize. If the Ghost de-manifests and flees back to the Ethereal, you simply can't touch it at all, except by finding it with see invisibility and casting magic missile at it, or by following it into the Ethereal.
redscizor 07-24-07, 01:16 PM	but If a ghost on the Ethereal Plane has ghost touch equipment with it on that plane, however, then it uses ghost touch weaponry as a corporeal creature on the Material Plane does when attacking a foe on the Material Plane. (That is, the ghost has no miss chance, it makes a regular attack that must deal with the target's armor, and the ghost's Strength score applies to the attack and damage rolls.) i love me succubus ethereal jaunt and use a sword ghost touch,
Orchomenos 07-26-07, 10:17 AM	but i love me succubus ethereal jaunt and use a sword ghost touch, redscizor, where is your quote coming from? This quote is from the Ghost entry in the SRD: A manifested ghost can strike with its touch attack or with a ghost touch weapon (see Ghostly Equipment, below). (...) Ghostly Equipment When a ghost forms, all its equipment and carried items usually become ethereal along with it. In addition, the ghost retains 2d4 items that it particularly valued in life (provided they are not in another creature’s possession). The equipment works normally on the Ethereal Plane but passes harmlessly through material objects or creatures. A weapon of +1 or better magical enhancement, however, can harm material creatures when the ghost manifests, but any such attack has a 50% chance to fail unless the weapon is a ghost touch weapon (just as magic weapons can fail to harm the ghost). The original material items remain behind, just as the ghost’s physical remains do. If another creature seizes the original, the ethereal copy fades away. This loss invariably angers the ghost, who stops at nothing to return the item to its original resting place. The ghost can use his ghost touch weapon, but only when he is Manifested, that is, only when he is Incorporeal, not merely Ethereal.