Memories in Hell [Archive] - Wizards Community

Memories in Hell [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thegans
06-10-07, 03:41 PM After looking through the Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of Hell I am having trouble telling the exact reason the memories are removed.

Devils are apparently created from tortured souls after having divine energy extracted from them leaving a lemure.

Is there a connection between the removal of the memories and the divine energy or are they removed for a different reason such as to get rid of mortal goals?
Deamon
06-10-07, 03:46 PM I thought that petioners lost their memories on death?
Thegans
06-10-07, 03:49 PM I originally thought that but it mentioned that the servants of lawful evil dieties become fiendish creatures but keep their memories.
Zousha_Omenohu
06-10-07, 04:18 PM For the petitioners, I'm not sure if they retain their memories, but I'd assume that their baatezu captors taunt them with what they did in life and that they are assigned a place in Baator according to their sins.

As for their conversions into fiends, I don't think that they retain their memories. Frankly, if they did keep them, would they really care? Now they have much more power than they could ever hope to gain in their mortal life, so why should their past matter to them?
Thegans
06-10-07, 04:23 PM For the petitioners, I'm not sure if they retain their memories, but I'd assume that their baatezu captors taunt them with what they did in life and that they are assigned a place in Baator according to their sins.

As for their conversions into fiends, I don't think that they retain their memories. Frankly, if they did keep them, would they really care? Now they have much more power than they could ever hope to gain in their mortal life, so why should their past matter to them?

Actually souls that are damned just for being lawful evil almost always become mindless lemures but the souls that worship evil dieties retain their memories. I am just trying to figure out if the removed memories serve a function.
Zousha_Omenohu
06-10-07, 06:47 PM Other than continued torment for a misconducted life? Probably not much. Also remember, the souls that are made into lemures don't get turned into lemures immediately. First they are tortured and worked past death by their baatezu masters, wearing away at the soul's identity until there is virtually nothing left. Then it becomes a lemures. There's plenty of time for them to remember their sins and regret them, until they are finally stripped away. You are right that those who worship Lawful Evil deities get "rescued" by their deity and don't go through this.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
06-10-07, 06:56 PM Except in rare cases, petitioners don't remember their lives. I'd assume that's because the memories are stored in the brain, which they can't exactly access, what with it being on a completely different plane. And being eaten by worms.
Zousha_Omenohu
06-10-07, 07:15 PM True, but that doesn't mean they don't have an identity or that they are immediately mindless. They still appear as they did in life and if I'm correct, the identity is what is destroyed prior to conversion into a full-fledged lemures
ripvanwormer
06-10-07, 08:32 PM The extreme torture experienced by the soulshells destroys their minds. Lemures are too mindless to retain any memories.

Also, petitioners lose the majority of their mortal memories by default, so they wouldn't have any memories even if they weren't tortured, and even if they weren't mindless.
Arbourean
06-10-07, 10:29 PM I do have to wonder who being mindless and without individuality a lemure is supposed to stand out and be noticed for promotion.
A superior just promoting one to a spinagon on a whim seems rather....chaotic.
Thegans
06-10-07, 10:35 PM I do have to wonder who being mindless and without individuality a lemure is supposed to stand out and be noticed for promotion.
A superior just promoting one to a spinagon on a whim seems rather....chaotic.

I always imagined it was something along the lines of this.

Pit Fiend watches lemure soldiers fight.
Pit Fiend looks at a lemure.
Pit Fiend - "You killed the most demons your an imp." or "Your still alive your an imp."
Lemure turns into an imp.
Imp - "Don't send me back there!"
Tobias Talco'un
06-11-07, 12:08 AM "Your still alive your an imp."

Yeah, I think it is more like that. So a couple of hundred lemures go off, one or two comes back, and they get promoted. Lemures are less than the rank and file troops, and as such no attention is given to them except when they live, and then they are advanced in rank because they would be more useful in battle that way.

That is the reason you won't see any advanced lemures, because if they survive long enough to advance, they would have been long promoted.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thegans 06-10-07, 03:41 PM	After looking through the Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of Hell I am having trouble telling the exact reason the memories are removed. Devils are apparently created from tortured souls after having divine energy extracted from them leaving a lemure. Is there a connection between the removal of the memories and the divine energy or are they removed for a different reason such as to get rid of mortal goals?
Deamon 06-10-07, 03:46 PM	I thought that petioners lost their memories on death?
Thegans 06-10-07, 03:49 PM	I originally thought that but it mentioned that the servants of lawful evil dieties become fiendish creatures but keep their memories.
Zousha_Omenohu 06-10-07, 04:18 PM	For the petitioners, I'm not sure if they retain their memories, but I'd assume that their baatezu captors taunt them with what they did in life and that they are assigned a place in Baator according to their sins. As for their conversions into fiends, I don't think that they retain their memories. Frankly, if they did keep them, would they really care? Now they have much more power than they could ever hope to gain in their mortal life, so why should their past matter to them?
Thegans 06-10-07, 04:23 PM	For the petitioners, I'm not sure if they retain their memories, but I'd assume that their baatezu captors taunt them with what they did in life and that they are assigned a place in Baator according to their sins. As for their conversions into fiends, I don't think that they retain their memories. Frankly, if they did keep them, would they really care? Now they have much more power than they could ever hope to gain in their mortal life, so why should their past matter to them? Actually souls that are damned just for being lawful evil almost always become mindless lemures but the souls that worship evil dieties retain their memories. I am just trying to figure out if the removed memories serve a function.
Zousha_Omenohu 06-10-07, 06:47 PM	Other than continued torment for a misconducted life? Probably not much. Also remember, the souls that are made into lemures don't get turned into lemures immediately. First they are tortured and worked past death by their baatezu masters, wearing away at the soul's identity until there is virtually nothing left. Then it becomes a lemures. There's plenty of time for them to remember their sins and regret them, until they are finally stripped away. You are right that those who worship Lawful Evil deities get "rescued" by their deity and don't go through this.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 06-10-07, 06:56 PM	Except in rare cases, petitioners don't remember their lives. I'd assume that's because the memories are stored in the brain, which they can't exactly access, what with it being on a completely different plane. And being eaten by worms.
Zousha_Omenohu 06-10-07, 07:15 PM	True, but that doesn't mean they don't have an identity or that they are immediately mindless. They still appear as they did in life and if I'm correct, the identity is what is destroyed prior to conversion into a full-fledged lemures
ripvanwormer 06-10-07, 08:32 PM	The extreme torture experienced by the soulshells destroys their minds. Lemures are too mindless to retain any memories. Also, petitioners lose the majority of their mortal memories by default, so they wouldn't have any memories even if they weren't tortured, and even if they weren't mindless.
Arbourean 06-10-07, 10:29 PM	I do have to wonder who being mindless and without individuality a lemure is supposed to stand out and be noticed for promotion. A superior just promoting one to a spinagon on a whim seems rather....chaotic.
Thegans 06-10-07, 10:35 PM	I do have to wonder who being mindless and without individuality a lemure is supposed to stand out and be noticed for promotion. A superior just promoting one to a spinagon on a whim seems rather....chaotic. I always imagined it was something along the lines of this. Pit Fiend watches lemure soldiers fight. Pit Fiend looks at a lemure. Pit Fiend - "You killed the most demons your an imp." or "Your still alive your an imp." Lemure turns into an imp. Imp - "Don't send me back there!"
Tobias Talco'un 06-11-07, 12:08 AM	"Your still alive your an imp." Yeah, I think it is more like that. So a couple of hundred lemures go off, one or two comes back, and they get promoted. Lemures are less than the rank and file troops, and as such no attention is given to them except when they live, and then they are advanced in rank because they would be more useful in battle that way. That is the reason you won't see any advanced lemures, because if they survive long enough to advance, they would have been long promoted.