Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mazaron 05-02-07, 12:30 AM	Can someone provide me with a list of gods, preferably ones based on mythology, that either 1) dealt with creation (as in creating the world, the universe) and/or 2) the creative arts, particularly metalurgy, and 3) gods of theives, gluttony, destruction, ending life. Thanks!
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 02:14 AM	OK Greek Mithology The Titans created the world and after they were defeated, Zeus, Posidon, and Hades devided what was left amongst themselves. Zues got the sky, Posidon the water, and Hades the earth Lets see.... Abassi: Sky god of Nigeria. He placed the first man and woman on earth made of clay Adad: Mesopotamian rain god, flooded the earth. Adroa: the creator god of the Lugbare people of Zaire. His belly is the earth. Aegir: German pagan god and brother to Loki, he took the role of Posidon Aeolus: Greek god of wind, who lived on a floating island of Aeolia where he kept the winds in a cave. Agdistis: A castrated god of purity Aglookik: Eskimo god of the hunt Agunua: Creator god of Solomon Islanders, a great serpant who fasioned man and woman from clay and then sowed all plants on earth Aine: Irish pagan goddess of love and sex. Loved mortals but was vicious when men tried to force their love on her. Aiomum Kondi: Arawak Indians believed he destroyed the earth with fire and then a great flood. Ajysyt: Turkish pagan goddess, provides the souls for new born babies. Alchera: Australian pagan god who sang the world into existance Alcina: Frankish pagan goddes who seduced Charlemagne, and protected water falls Alfar: Germanic pagan god who created the Elves and the Dwarfs Alfodr: Also known as Odin Alklha: Siberian pagan god who swalows the sun and moon, spots on the moon are scars left by him Amida-Nyorai: Japanese Buddist keeper of heaven Annut: Egyptian god, half jackel half crocodile, punished damned souls by eating them.
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 02:27 AM	Amphitrite: Wife of the sea god Posidon, was loyal but reluctant Anat: Canaanite goddess who rescued souls from hell Andvari: Germanic pagan magic god of dwarfs Angurbodi: Germanic pagan goddes and second wife of Loki, a giantess of un-equaled ugliness and was the mother of Hel Angus: the Irish love god Anna Perenna: A Roman goddess and sister of the Carthaginian queen Dido. She was the goddess of the new year. Annency: Spider and trickster god of west india Anshar: Babylonian god of the morning Anunnaki: Baylonian god of the dead Apis: Egyptian creator god of memphis Apollyon: Cristian the angel who ruled over the damned in the bottomless pit of Satans kingdom Argus: Greek monster similar to a beholder Aruna: Hindu god of the sun Aruru: Mesopotamian godess of germs and desiese Asmodeus: Christian demon of drunkeness and lust Aswinis: Hindu twins of day and night sky Atlanta: Greek a servant of Artamis, known for her speed and dareing. Atar: Iranian god of fire. Ate: Greek godess of discord and chaos, wickedness and folly.
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 02:49 AM	Aten: Creator god of some pharaohs, but was wiped out. Atlas:Greek the Titan who holds the world on his sholders Audumla: Germanic pagan a great cow that created the first man out of salt and rocks Aurora: Roman godess of the dawn also Eos Bacabs: Maya gods 4 brothers who held up the world Balor: Irish pagan one eyed god of evil Bannik: Russian pagan god of bath houses Bastet: Cat godess of Egypt. Ruled the moon Bellona: Roman godess of war before Mars killed her Bertha: Germanic/Christian woman who watched over unbaptized children and fortold death Bes: Egyptian god of dwarfs and protector of children Bishamon: Buddhist Japan, god of fortune and prosperity, war and riches Bona Dea: Roman godess of women, looked like a serpent and practiced lesbianism Borak: Islamic, a winged sphynx like creature mohamid rode into heven Brag: Germanic pagan god of speach and poetry Brian: Irish pagan, son of the godess Brigit Britomairs: Cretan godess of the sea, and wild places Bruga: Siberian pagan, created the world and men from fire, clay, iron, and water Caishen: Chinese god of money Calliope: a muse of singing Callisto: a beautiful nymph and atendant of Artamis Camilla: Roman,Favorite nymph of Artamis Cardia: Roman, god of doors and protection Cerberus: Greek, multi headed dog gardian of Hades Ceres: Roman, godess of vegetation, especialy corns and fruit Cain: Irish, father of the sun Cupay: Peruvian pagan god of death Dambhodbhava: Hindu, god of vice and pride Daphne: a mountain nymph lesbian who was seduced by Apollo Dazhbog: Slavic pagan sun god
Return of the Flumph 05-02-07, 02:55 AM	Creator Gods: Ame-no-Minaka: Ame-no-Minaka is a deistic creator type who constructed the land masses, then retreated and allowed the other gods to populate them. Hasn't really been active since then. His son (Izanagi) and daughter (Izanami) went about making the first life forms. Yahweh/Baal/Marduk: Different names for slightly different cultural versions of the same general concept. Before this god (who is usually associated with storms and lightning) came around, the world was a big swirly ocean of chaos ruled by an evil dragon beast. The storm god kills said dragon and imposes order on reality, creating life and usually presenting mankind with a set of divine commandments. Odin: Created Midgard (basically the Prime Material) from the carcass of a demonic giant he and his buddies killed. Odin created mankind at least partly out of a need for more soldiers to serve in his army for protection (that evil giant had a lot of friends). Raven/Coyote: In various Native American mythos, the enigmatic trickster/creator deity is usually anthropomorphocized as either a coyote or a raven, although its clearly the same character (the Yahweh/Baal/Marduk phenomenon). Basically a selfish, conniving schmuck who sort of created everything on a whim and, though clearly powerful, is not all that respected. Metalworking Gods: Hephaestus: Possibly the only likable member of the Greek pantheon, Hephaestus was born hideously deformed, and was thrown from Olympus by his mother Hera in disgust. He worked his way back into the good graces of the other gods and became the creative genius of olympus, forging magical artifacts of incredible power and teaching mankind the art of smithing. Hmmm....can't think of any others off the top of my head. If I remember another blacksmith god I'll add it. Greedy/Destroyer Gods: Set: The living definition of "asshat," Set is an Egyptian god of rage, greed, envy, and sandstorms (oh, one of these things is not like the other things, one of these things doesn't belong). Set killed his brother Osiris out of jealousy and tried to kill his wife and son, but ended up being defeated by said heir. Has prowled around being angry and malicious ever since. Loki: God of liars and thieves, Loki was actually a deserter from Team Evil that the good gods decided to accept for some reason. After stealing some things and commiting countless petty crimes, Loki tricked one of the gods into killing another one, and subsequently booked it. The good guys caught him, though, and chained him beneath the earth where a snake drools a corrosive poison in his eyes forevermore. If he ever escapes, it will herald the destruction of the world. Tezcatlipoca: Mercurial jaguar god who likes pulling big, elaborate pranks that he thinks are funny, but that result in other people being dishonored, hurt, or killed. God of rogues and con men, but also has some intellectual aspects that were considered beneficial. Land Otter Chief: Formerly human, this scary mofo of Native Alaskan myth was captured by a tribe of malevolent otter spirits (basically the demons of this mythology) and transformed into an unstoppable supernatural menace. Since he is only permitted to take the souls of those who despoil nature, he tries to encourage people down this wasteful and gluttonous path, so that he can add them to his tribe.
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 03:10 AM	Dhanvantari: Hindu, physician of the gods Diana: Roman, goddess of the hunt and chastity, also Artamis Dian-Cecht: Irish, god of medicine and healing Domovoi: Slavic god of the stove Donn: Irish god of the dead and instructor of how to find the afterlife Echo: Greek nymph of endless speach Egeria: Roman water nymph and protector of children from drowning Ek Chuah: Maya, blood thirsty war god with one eye Emma-O: Buddhist Japanese god of death and of the 8 hells Epona: Irish, goddess of horsemen Eros (Cupid): Greeko-Roman god of love and sex Evander: Greek god of tricks Fafnir: Germanic dragon god clad in red gold, ruled magics Fengobo: Chinese god of the 4 winds Fides: Roman goddess of faith and truth, usualy rideing a chariot. Fintan: Irish, fish god of all knowledge. Flora: roman goddess of flowers and wife of Hades Fortuna or Tyche: Roman goddess of luck and chance Freya: Germanic, godess of youth and sex Fuji Hime: Shinto japanese a goddess of nature who lives on Mt. Fujiyama Fuxi: Chinese god of rain who flooded the earth Gaia: Greek goddess of the earth Garm: Germanic dog guard to the underworld Gefjion: Germanic goddess of the plough Genius: Roman god of destiny Golem: Hebrew, an artaficial man who defended the jews Gwynn: Celtic god of death god im tired...... ill just write down a few more, if your interested in any more just ask ok........:whatsthis
ArcTan 05-02-07, 03:12 AM	Holy crap on a stick please tell me you're not holding a dictionary of mythology open and copying over things verbatim in alphabetical order. (And how the hell does, say, a "castrated god of love and purity" fulfill any of the OP's requirements?) I'm going to try to help you in a more structured way by doing what D&D does -- arbitrarily taking some important real-life pantheons and pointing out which god(s) fill which of the roles you've named, which are pretty important roles (the creator-god, the god of smithcraft, the demon who represents the antisocial and selfish). Greek Pantheon: Universal creation is the result of Gaia, the Earth-Mother, springing forth from Chaos (the emptiness before all). Her siblings are Tartarus, the Abyss beneath the Earth that swallows all in death, and Eros, the force of love and life from which all else springs. It is Eros' influence that allows Gaia to give birth to Ouranos, the god who represents the Heavens, and it is Gaia and Ouranos' mating that produces the other beings of the world. In this mythology the closest thing to a "creator", then, is Eros, who here represents the force of love that underlies all reproduction and all life, in opposition to Tartarus, the force of entropy and death. We all know, of course, that the Olympian god who watches over smiths in the Greek Pantheon is Hephaestos, who makes most of the important tools and weapons used by the gods. Finally, as for your final request -- these concepts (theft, gluttony, destruction, killing) are hardly universally related in most religions. The Olympian god of thieves is Hermes, but Hermes is hardly a destructive force in these other senses -- I'm sensing that you're trying to take qualities D&D has put together for gods or demons like Orcus and Bane and Cyric and associate them for real religions, when in reality they aren't always or even usually associated that way. However, I'll go along with you and basically take it as a request to name demon figures who represent these sorts of negative things -- selfish desire and such. The Greek figure who fits this bill the best is Ares, who is the god of selfish and destructive wars, portrayed as a coward who only fights foes who are outmatched by him and who loves war for the glory he can gain from it rather than for any just cause (that being the domain of his sister Athena). Another of D&D's classic pantheons is the Egyptian Pantheon. In that pantheon the sun-god Ra is the most common god invoked as creator, though interestingly Ptah, the god of crafts and artifice, is frequently seen as having preceded Ra and created him -- Ptah merely having created the world with Ra as its rightful ruler. (As D&D's D&DG notes, Ra was frequently integrated with other gods, such as combining him with the god Amon to become Amon-Re, or the god Horus to become Re-Horakhty.) Note that Ptah himself was originally just a figure who represented creation and the beginnings of things, like Eros in Greek mythology, but got integrated with Seker -- the winged god who presided over the mummification process and was later associated with metallurgy, crafts, stonework and such -- to become the single deity Ptah-Seker. Finally, a destructive bad deity in Egypt would probably be Set, the god who selfishly betrayed and killed Osiris in an attempt to steal power -- note that this is a twist of Set's original nature as a heroic deity and defender of Ra, mostly for political reasons (he was the chief god of the Hyksos, who conquered the Egyptians). In this role he's a more humanized deity -- he represents a specific people, and the human qualities of corruption and tyranny -- than the more cosmic evil he displaced, the Great Serpent Apep. Finally, in the Norse Pantheon (based on the Norse deities found in the Elder Edda), the most obvious creator-god figure is Odin himself, who fashions the world from the Frost Giant Ymir. Artifice and craft, interestingly, doesn't get a god among the Aesir or Vanir for the Norse -- instead craftsmanship is the domain of the Duergar/Svartalf (i.e. Dwarves/Dark Elves), who -- unlike the later portrayals of them in fantasy -- are in Norse mythology a kind of demigod or faerie race. (And no clear distinction between the idea of a "dwarf" or "dark elf" is made, and "dwarfs" aren't particularly shorter than humans are -- the idea that Jotun or "giant" means a big human and Duergar or "dwarf" means a small human is a later invention.) The Dwarfs were "worshipped" -- or, more accurately, propitiated -- as a group by Norsemen, given offerings and prayers and such, but not seen as being on the level of the gods (Aesir and Vanir). The most important individual Dwarfs were Montognir, Durin and Dvalin, the three firstborn Dwarfs made by Odin and the three highest among them, although the most *famous* Dwarf is probably Brock, who made Thor's hammer Mjollnir among other things. And the god of stealing things, causing unnecessary death and being a selfish ass is pretty clearly Loki in Norse myth, with Loki being a prototypical Satan-figure from which a lot of later Christian ideas of Satan were derived.
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 03:18 AM	well you cant blame me for trying to be helpful:cool: I do actualy have a dictionary of mythos its called the Macmillan illustrated encyclopedia of Myths and Legends by Artur Cotterell I would get a copy at your local library, if you want ideas from demons to demi-gods
Return of the Flumph 05-02-07, 03:26 AM	well you cant blame me for trying to be helpful:cool: I do actualy have a dictionary of mythos its called the Macmillan illustrated encyclopedia of Myths and Legends by Artur Cotterell I would get a copy at your local library, if you want ideas from demons to demi-gods When the OP said he wanted a few interesting and detailed examples of gods with a certain portfolio, he did NOT mean "throw a gazillion names of every god of anything who was ever worshipped at me."
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 03:33 AM	:gah: sorry, sheesh! I though if he saw one he liked he could just ask and Id break out the big old book and go into SUPER DETAILED MODE. :teach: pluss thats really only half of whats actauly in the book. :surrender dont be so grumpy.... lets let him descide if I was helpful or not (probably the latter) but still peace and love man~:tie:
ArcTan 05-02-07, 03:34 AM	Creator Gods: Ame-no-Minaka: Ame-no-Minaka is a deistic creator type who constructed the land masses, then retreated and allowed the other gods to populate them. Hasn't really been active since then. His son (Izanagi) and daughter (Izanami) went about making the first life forms. Yahweh/Baal/Marduk: Different names for slightly different cultural versions of the same general concept. Before this god (who is usually associated with storms and lightning) came around, the world was a big swirly ocean of chaos ruled by an evil dragon beast. The storm god kills said dragon and imposes order on reality, creating life and usually presenting mankind with a set of divine commandments. By the time Yahweh gets called Yahweh and becomes the monotheistic deity of Judaism, he's pretty different from a "storm deity" -- and being fair to the overall conception of Yahweh in Judaism and Christianity should acknowledge that there is a really big split from the Sumerian origins there. (There is no preexisting Tiamat character, there is no particular association with storms over anything else, etc.) And Marduk's own creation myth, the Enuma Elish, makes it clear that Marduk isn't the original creator-deity -- he's empowered by his predecessors Enlil and Ea to take back creation from Tiamat, but he himself comes in late in the game. Odin: Created Midgard (basically the Prime Material) from the carcass of a demonic giant he and his buddies killed. Odin created mankind at least partly out of a need for more soldiers to serve in his army for protection (that evil giant had a lot of friends). That's a somewhat cynical take on it even for a Norseman. Seriously, the Aesir's war with the Jotun isn't a factor yet when the first stories about Odin, Vili and Ve making the first humans occur. Presumably the events of Ragnarok don't become an inevitability for Odin until long after he makes his journey to learn the future, which itself occurs long after the *first* major war the Aesir fight, which is against the Vanir, and in which Einheriar don't figure at all. After all, remember that most of Ymir's fellow Jotun were killed at the same time he was killed, and that the later Jotun are depicted as a growing, rebuilding race the same as the Aesir after that. And that the Jotun are sometimes allies and friends with the Aesir all through this time period (that's how Loki comes to be one of them in the first place). Raven/Coyote: In various Native American mythos, the enigmatic trickster/creator deity is usually anthropomorphocized as either a coyote or a raven, although its clearly the same character (the Yahweh/Baal/Marduk phenomenon). Basically a selfish, conniving schmuck who sort of created everything on a whim and, though clearly powerful, is not all that respected. Er, Raven and Coyote are both as respected as trickster-heroes usually are -- which is to say, a lot. The stories make them look ridiculous, sure, but the day-to-day religion absolutely is about giving them their due as creator figures and examples for humans to follow. Raven and Coyote in these stories have a great deal more in common with Prometheus in Greek mythology than they do with Yahweh or Marduk, neither of whom is a "trickster" in any real sense. You would've done better to compare Odin to Marduk, since Odin's act of creating Midgard from Ymir is much more akin to what Marduk does when he creates the world from Tiamat. And placing Yahweh in this category doesn't serve much purpose beyond snarking at Jews and Christians -- to meaningfully talk about Yahweh is to talk about the Yahweh we have a recorred attestation of, which is the Book of Genesis, which has Elohim/Yahweh creating the world from chaos using solely the power of his word, the whole concept of conquering and killing another creature having been wiped from the story. Metalworking Gods: Hephaestus: Possibly the only likable member of the Greek pantheon, Hephaestus was born hideously deformed, and was thrown from Olympus by his mother Hera in disgust. He worked his way back into the good graces of the other gods and became the creative genius of olympus, forging magical artifacts of incredible power and teaching mankind the art of smithing. Hmmm....can't think of any others off the top of my head. If I remember another blacksmith god I'll add it. Oh, come now. You don't remember Wayland-Smith? For shame. Wayland is an Anglo-Saxon deity who has various adventures -- he marries a Valkyrie, gets magic rings stolen from him, etc. There's a place in Britain named for him -- a hill called Wayland's Smithy where, legend has it, if you leave your horse there with a silver coin you'll find the horse magically shod and the coin gone in the morning. By the way, despite a tendency for modern fantasy writers to make Hephaestos the decent-lovable-dude of the pantheon (everyone loves geeks and techies, right?) he's not actually that nice a guy. Among the things he's done is attempted to rape Athena -- his semen left on her thigh is the source of Athena's only "child". His other habits, like setting traps to snare his cheating wife Aphrodite or building lovers for himself out of metal, might not be as obviously reprehensible but are kind of nasty. (In that way I guess he does fulfill the geek stereotype.) Greedy/Destroyer Gods: Set: The living definition of "asshat," Set is an Egyptian god of rage, greed, envy, and sandstorms (oh, one of these things is not like the other things, one of these things doesn't belong). Set killed his brother Osiris out of jealousy and tried to kill his wife and son, but ended up being defeated by said heir. Has prowled around being angry and malicious ever since. Snark about those silly ancients all you will, but living in a desert civilization, sandstorms are exactly the sort of thing that make you think there's some spiteful nasty person out there trying to get you. But Set wasn't always evil -- in the Middle Kingdom period preceding the New Kingdom Osiris-slaying myth you cite, he was actually the hero who defeated the serpent Apep every night, guarding Ra's solar barge as it sailed through the Twelve Hours of the Night (the Underworld). The reason Set went from hero to villain is the same as the reason Marduk displaced his dad Ea as creator-god of the Mesopotamians -- politics. (Marduk was the god of Babylon, Ea was the god of Sumeria, when Babylon beat Sumeria, the creation myth had to be rewritten.) Set was generally the god of the desert peoples in the way that Horus was the god of those who lived around the Nile. When these two peoples -- Upper and Lower Egypt -- got along and created a united empire, Set and Horus got along and were the two beloved sons of Ra, each with their place (Horus as Ra's crown prince and ruler on his behalf, Set as Ra's strong right arm and defender). When the desert Hyksos conquered the Egyptians and wrecked their scene for a few years, Set, their god, metamorphosed into a villain who represented everything the Egyptians hated. Loki: God of liars and thieves, Loki was actually a deserter from Team Evil that the good gods decided to accept for some reason. After stealing some things and commiting countless petty crimes, Loki tricked one of the gods into killing another one, and subsequently booked it. The good guys caught him, though, and chained him beneath the earth where a snake drools a corrosive poison in his eyes forevermore. If he ever escapes, it will herald the destruction of the world. Jotunheim isn't originally "Team Evil". They only become so at Ragnarok, thanks to a long series of bitter feuds, many of which are arguably the Aesir's fault. The Jotun more accurately represent the uncivilized wilderness whle the gods represent the forces of human civilization -- and in this sense Loki is the wildness or chaos still implicit in human life and impossible to displace. Land Otter Chief: Formerly human, this scary mofo of Native Alaskan myth was captured by a tribe of malevolent otter spirits (basically the demons of this mythology) and transformed into an unstoppable supernatural menace. Since he is only permitted to take the souls of those who despoil nature, he tries to encourage people down this wasteful and gluttonous path, so that he can add them to his tribe. I don't know anything about Alaskan myth, so I'll take your word on this one.
ArcTan 05-02-07, 03:35 AM	:gah: sorry, sheesh! I though if he saw one he liked he could just ask and Id break out the big old book and go into SUPER DETAILED MODE. :teach: pluss thats really only half of whats actauly in the book. :surrender dont be so grumpy.... lets let him descide if I was helpful or not (probably the latter) but still peace and love man~:tie: Seriously, dude, the big list is not helpful. A much more helpful thing, if that's what you're going to do, is to point him to the book or to a website with a list. Presumably he can find that on his own and the reason he's asking questions here is he wants more detailed info than you get from a big list. And it really does seem like you put no effort into culling that list, whatsoever. The Greek Titan Atlas, for instance, doesn't fit into *any* of the three categories the OP mentioned -- he didn't create the world, has no association with crafts or smithing, and has no particular trait of selfishness or destruction.
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 03:49 AM	Well you see Atlas holds the world and with out him It would fall and be destroyed, He was also a Titan who was an overseer god, before Zeus kicked his butt. So, under that pretence I included him. So hes sort of a great regulator, albeit reluctantly. Plus most races gods overlapp in their portfolio, so it was more listing off names. All you have to do is look at the breif description and trace it back to the corisponding greek god.
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 04:06 AM	Ok heres a good one ictinike: The adventurous trickster god and son of the sun god in the mythology of the north american sioux or dakota indians Ictinike is depicted as an warrior interested both in warfare and its customs, he is often referred to as the inventor of lies and stories. He is cunning and deceitful. He was expeled from heaven.:D
ArcTan 05-02-07, 04:07 AM	Well you see Atlas holds the world and with out him It would fall and be destroyed, He was also a Titan who was an overseer god, before Zeus kicked his butt. So, under that pretence I included him. So hes sort of a great regulator, albeit reluctantly. ...You see why that's pointless, right? He didn't ask about overseers. The role of the chief god, the god who maintains order and the god who created the universe are very often three completely different roles in various mythologies (even though monotheistic religion has trained us to expect them to be the same entity). Do this and you're basically listing every god who was worshipped anywhere. Plus most races gods overlapp in their portfolio, so it was more listing off names. All you have to do is look at the breif description and trace it back to the corisponding greek god. Yeah, I fail to see how that's helpful. If all I wanted was names of gods without context, I might as well just make up my own.
Return of the Flumph 05-02-07, 04:15 AM	Kinda sorta on a lot of those refutations. While I admit that some (like Marduk's empowerment by the earlier gods and the timeline of the war between the Aesir and Jotuns) were oversights on my part, I don't think you're being fair in a lot of ways. No one knows for sure when Yawheh started being called Yawheh (actually an acronym, I know, but its the name he's best known by) and whether he was still a storm god at that part, and Rahab (the hebrew version of the big Tiamat beast) existed well into early Jewish mythology. Sure, Yawheh might not be a storm god anymore and Rahab is no longer believed in at all, but for a good chunk of time they were. I don't see how I was attacking Christianity or Judaism; I was simply alluding to an earlier, more pagan precursor of the Jewish faith. With Raven/Coyote, perhaps I am lumping too many disparate traditions together. In know how raven and coyote were seen in certain west coast Native myth cycles, and they generally saw him as a bad example of how to behave. Things might have been different in the midwest/east coast. I don't know. If so, we're both right. Never heard the story with him trying to rape Athena...probably the cleaned up mythology they have kids read these days. On the other hand, I thought it was supremely funny when he set the trap for Aries and Aphrodite and can't really say I blame him for it...same goes for that chair he made Hera. And yes, I understand the mythological connotations sandstorms are likely to acquire in a desert civilization. It just sounded funny when they were listed like that. No need to be uptight. This is a game, after all.
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 04:30 AM	gluttony and lust Ishtar: the babylonian goddess of fertility and love. She was very agressive and passionate. Once a year she would decend into the world of the dead and rule with her sister Ereshkigal who would cow to her approach. Kamapua'a: The pig god of Hawaiian mythology. Extreamly amorous and warlike. His parents tried to kill him. He had the head of a pig and body of a man. He wooed the fire goddess Pele. Tricksters Mara: Buddhist demon, and master of illusion, he often would send his veluptuous daughters to destract holy men from their meditations. The souls of those he tempts become his captives. Nanabozho: Trickster of the algonquin indians means big rabbit He killed his younger brothers, and yet hated murderers. He was a contradictory character whose greed and deceit often brought him to the point of disaster. Olofat: Micronesian god, olofat was the son of the sun god. He rode around on a column of smoke. He unintentionally gave the shark its sharp teeth, gave fire to man, as well as tattoos. art and metalurgy Lugh: A prominent deity in the old Irish sagas, Lugh was a sun god, known for his radiant beauty and his skills with arts and crafts. Mainly bow makeing and spear makeing, thrown wepons. The son of Balor (see above) He was raised by Goibhniu the Irish smith god. Ogun: the war god of the Yoruba of west africa. He is associated with iron. Also known as Gu, he is the bringer of war and the crafter of metal and stone into tools of war.
MrSpaceBear 05-02-07, 04:42 AM	Here are some interesting creator gods Sedna: Eskimo goddess of the underworld. She created all sea life, and she is the daughter of Anguta who created the earth sea and heavens Ta'Aroa: The creator god for the Tahitians, he hatched from a cosmic shell and was depressed by the void and so created the heavens and the earth Welle: Deity of Abaluyia of Kenya, he first created the sky and supported it on pillars, he then created 2 brothers the sun and moon to assist him with the rest of creation.
Mazaron 05-02-07, 01:22 PM	Universal creation is the result of Gaia, the Earth-Mother, springing forth from Chaos (the emptiness before all). Her siblings are Tartarus, the Abyss beneath the Earth that swallows all in death, and Eros, the force of love and life from which all else springs. It is Eros' influence that allows Gaia to give birth to Ouranos, the god who represents the Heavens, and it is Gaia and Ouranos' mating that produces the other beings of the world. **I wasn't sure if Gaia was a god or just a personfication of the Earth somehow, a primal force rather than a diety. I am afraid I wasn't familiar with Tartarus - I though that was a Greek name for the underworld - or Eros. We all know, of course, that the Olympian god who watches over smiths in the Greek Pantheon is Hephaestos, who makes most of the important tools and weapons used by the gods. **Yes, him I knew. Or to the Romans, Vulcan. Finally, as for your final request -- these concepts (theft, gluttony, destruction, killing) are hardly universally related in most religions. The Olympian god of thieves is Hermes, but Hermes is hardly a destructive force in these other senses -- I'm sensing that you're trying to take qualities D&D has put together for gods or demons like Orcus and Bane and Cyric and associate them for real religions, when in reality they aren't always or even usually associated that way. *Right, I knew of the Hermes-thief connection, but to me that was more of a rascally side of him, not a destructive side. I was looking for destroyer gods, counterpoints to creator/renewal gods. However, I'll go along with you and basically take it as a request to name demon figures who represent these sorts of negative things -- selfish desire and such. The Greek figure who fits this bill the best is Ares, who is the god of selfish and destructive wars, portrayed as a coward who only fights foes who are outmatched by him and who loves war for the glory he can gain from it rather than for any just cause (that being the domain of his sister Athena). ***In sharp contrast to the Roman version, Mars, who was venerated as an hornable god, one of the few examples where the Roman take on the Greek pantheon was actually quite different. Ares is definitely more towards what I was thinking. Another of D&D's classic pantheons is the Egyptian Pantheon. In that pantheon the sun-god Ra is the most common god invoked as creator, though interestingly Ptah, the god of crafts and artifice, is frequently seen as having preceded Ra and created him -- Ptah merely having created the world with Ra as its rightful ruler. (As D&D's D&DG notes, Ra was frequently integrated with other gods, such as combining him with the god Amon to become Amon-Re, or the god Horus to become Re-Horakhty.) ***Right, not surprising really, given how many centuries Egyptian civlization lasted. I had always thought of Ptah as the creator there, Ra as merely that pantheon's Zeus, its "current" chief. Note that Ptah himself was originally just a figure who represented creation and the beginnings of things, like Eros in Greek mythology, but got integrated with Seker -- the winged god who presided over the mummification process and was later associated with metallurgy, crafts, stonework and such -- to become the single deity Ptah-Seker. **That I did not know. Finally, a destructive bad deity in Egypt would probably be Set, the god who selfishly betrayed and killed Osiris in an attempt to steal power -- note that this is a twist of Set's original nature as a heroic deity and defender of Ra, mostly for political reasons (he was the chief god of the Hyksos, who conquered the Egyptians). In this role he's a more humanized deity -- he represents a specific people, and the human qualities of corruption and tyranny -- than the more cosmic evil he displaced, the Great Serpent Apep. ***Or Apophis, yes. Interesting to note that btw researchers don't know what Set is. Many think he is a jackal but actually isn't if you look closely at his depictions (Anubis is a jackal-headed god). Some think he is an aardvark, others some imaginary beast or something now extinct. Finally, in the Norse Pantheon (based on the Norse deities found in the Elder Edda), the most obvious creator-god figure is Odin himself, who fashions the world from the Frost Giant Ymir. **I seem to remember reading that but I wasn't sure if he acted alone and then also who created Odin. Artifice and craft, interestingly, doesn't get a god among the Aesir or Vanir for the Norse -- instead craftsmanship is the domain of the Duergar/Svartalf (i.e. Dwarves/Dark Elves), who -- unlike the later portrayals of them in fantasy -- are in Norse mythology a kind of demigod or faerie race. (And no clear distinction between the idea of a "dwarf" or "dark elf" is made, and "dwarfs" aren't particularly shorter than humans are -- the idea that Jotun or "giant" means a big human and Duergar or "dwarf" means a small human is a later invention.) The Dwarfs were "worshipped" -- or, more accurately, propitiated -- as a group by Norsemen, given offerings and prayers and such, but not seen as being on the level of the gods (Aesir and Vanir). **Seems like in the tales I have read every time they need some super weapon like Mjilonor or something to bind Garm or the like, they have to go to the dwarves but otherwise they don't figure in the legends much otherwise. By some accounts the Norse invented the drow. Planescape has the third layer of Ysgard populated by dark elves (not drow) which are much more in line with what you describe above. And the god of stealing things, causing unnecessary death and being a selfish ass is pretty clearly Loki in Norse myth, with Loki being a prototypical Satan-figure from which a lot of later Christian ideas of Satan were derived.[/QUOTE] ***Loki though had a lot of good qualities and wasn't all evil in the stories I read. He angered the other Asgardians a lot but he generally wasn't out to destroy them, though if memory serves his children were quite destructive. Thanks!
Mazaron 05-02-07, 01:23 PM	:gah: sorry, sheesh! I though if he saw one he liked he could just ask and Id break out the big old book and go into SUPER DETAILED MODE. :teach: pluss thats really only half of whats actauly in the book. :surrender dont be so grumpy.... lets let him descide if I was helpful or not (probably the latter) but still peace and love man~:tie: Thanks for the effort Mr. Space Bear but I have to say many of these deities didn't really fit the bill for what I was looking for. Thanks though for the obvious effort.
Mazaron 05-02-07, 01:28 PM	gluttony and lust Ishtar: the babylonian goddess of fertility and love. She was very agressive and passionate. Once a year she would decend into the world of the dead and rule with her sister Ereshkigal who would cow to her approach. Kamapua'a: The pig god of Hawaiian mythology. Extreamly amorous and warlike. His parents tried to kill him. He had the head of a pig and body of a man. He wooed the fire goddess Pele. Tricksters Mara: Buddhist demon, and master of illusion, he often would send his veluptuous daughters to destract holy men from their meditations. The souls of those he tempts become his captives. Nanabozho: Trickster of the algonquin indians means big rabbit He killed his younger brothers, and yet hated murderers. He was a contradictory character whose greed and deceit often brought him to the point of disaster. Olofat: Micronesian god, olofat was the son of the sun god. He rode around on a column of smoke. He unintentionally gave the shark its sharp teeth, gave fire to man, as well as tattoos. art and metalurgy Lugh: A prominent deity in the old Irish sagas, Lugh was a sun god, known for his radiant beauty and his skills with arts and crafts. Mainly bow makeing and spear makeing, thrown wepons. The son of Balor (see above) He was raised by Goibhniu the Irish smith god. Ogun: the war god of the Yoruba of west africa. He is associated with iron. Also known as Gu, he is the bringer of war and the crafter of metal and stone into tools of war. That's more like it! I have heard of Lugh and I believe Dragon even in the 1990s did Ogun if memory serves (they did the Yoruba pantheon for 2E when they did their series of Africa articles). Can you tell me more about Mara? I thought Mara was a Jewish word, a first name for women. Don't know anything about Buddhist cosmology, sounds interesting.
Mazaron 05-02-07, 01:41 PM	Here are some interesting creator gods Sedna: Eskimo goddess of the underworld. She created all sea life, and she is the daughter of Anguta who created the earth sea and heavens Ta'Aroa: The creator god for the Tahitians, he hatched from a cosmic shell and was depressed by the void and so created the heavens and the earth Welle: Deity of Abaluyia of Kenya, he first created the sky and supported it on pillars, he then created 2 brothers the sun and moon to assist him with the rest of creation. The middle one was helfpul, it lead me to some good Maori deity names, thanks.
Mazaron 05-02-07, 01:52 PM	And Marduk's own creation myth, the Enuma Elish, makes it clear that Marduk isn't the original creator-deity -- he's empowered by his predecessors Enlil and Ea to take back creation from Tiamat, but he himself comes in late in the game. ***Thanks, I thought Marduk was not the original creator. After all, remember that most of Ymir's fellow Jotun were killed at the same time he was killed, and that the later Jotun are depicted as a growing, rebuilding race the same as the Aesir after that. And that the Jotun are sometimes allies and friends with the Aesir all through this time period (that's how Loki comes to be one of them in the first place). **I do remember reading that even though the Aesir/Vanir and the giant know they are going to fight a t Ragnarok, that doesn't prevent them from eating, drinking, and gambling together, even friendships of a sort. Er, Raven and Coyote are both as respected as trickster-heroes usually are -- which is to say, a lot. The stories make them look ridiculous, sure, but the day-to-day religion absolutely is about giving them their due as creator figures and examples for humans to follow. **Well, I am sure they seemed lee ridiculous in context of their culture of course. They are certainly the best known Native American deities and beloved of D&D sourcebook writers. Raven and Coyote in these stories have a great deal more in common with Prometheus in Greek mythology than they do with Yahweh or Marduk, neither of whom is a "trickster" in any real sense. You would've done better to compare Odin to Marduk, since Odin's act of creating Midgard from Ymir is much more akin to what Marduk does when he creates the world from Tiamat. ***Odin and Marduk comparision, interesting. Oh, come now. You don't remember Wayland-Smith? For shame. Wayland is an Anglo-Saxon deity who has various adventures -- he marries a Valkyrie, gets magic rings stolen from him, etc. There's a place in Britain named for him -- a hill called Wayland's Smithy where, legend has it, if you leave your horse there with a silver coin you'll find the horse magically shod and the coin gone in the morning. **I don't remember Wayland-Smith either, sounds like one of the Wagner operas though. By the way, despite a tendency for modern fantasy writers to make Hephaestos the decent-lovable-dude of the pantheon (everyone loves geeks and techies, right?) he's not actually that nice a guy. Among the things he's done is attempted to rape Athena -- his semen left on her thigh is the source of Athena's only "child". His other habits, like setting traps to snare his cheating wife Aphrodite or building lovers for himself out of metal, might not be as obviously reprehensible but are kind of nasty. (In that way I guess he does fulfill the geek stereotype.) ***I didn't know that. I know that some of the myths that schoolkids read and even found in fantasy sourcebooks is cleaned up a good bit. Egyptian mythology had lots of vivid descritpions of sexaul conduct for instance and many Precolumbian religous statues were decidely not PG. But Set wasn't always evil -- in the Middle Kingdom period preceding the New Kingdom Osiris-slaying myth you cite, he was actually the hero who defeated the serpent Apep every night, guarding Ra's solar barge as it sailed through the Twelve Hours of the Night (the Underworld). ***I didn't know Set wasn't always evil until I read this thread today. And I thought I knew a fair amount about him too! The reason Set went from hero to villain is the same as the reason Marduk displaced his dad Ea as creator-god of the Mesopotamians -- politics. (Marduk was the god of Babylon, Ea was the god of Sumeria, when Babylon beat Sumeria, the creation myth had to be rewritten.) ***True, a theme throughout the ancient world, also happened with Greek mythology as well. Set was generally the god of the desert peoples in the way that Horus was the god of those who lived around the Nile. When these two peoples -- Upper and Lower Egypt -- got along and created a united empire, Set and Horus got along and were the two beloved sons of Ra, each with their place (Horus as Ra's crown prince and ruler on his behalf, Set as Ra's strong right arm and defender). **Interesting. That right there is a good campaign seed. When the desert Hyksos conquered the Egyptians and wrecked their scene for a few years, Set, their god, metamorphosed into a villain who represented everything the Egyptians hated. ***I thought the Hyskos were a martime people, would they have had Set as their deity? Jotunheim isn't originally "Team Evil". They only become so at Ragnarok, thanks to a long series of bitter feuds, many of which are arguably the Aesir's fault. The Jotun more accurately represent the uncivilized wilderness whle the gods represent the forces of human civilization -- and in this sense Loki is the wildness or chaos still implicit in human life and impossible to displace. ***Team Evil as you put was augmented as well by Aesir children like the Midgard Serpent and Hel. I don't know anything about Alaskan myth, so I'll take your word on this one.[/QUOTE] Sedna was in the news a few years ago as the name given to one of the Kuiper Belt Objects out past Pluto. I thought it was an excellent name and the IAU agreed, making it official. Thanks btw to everyone who has replied.
ArcTan 05-02-07, 04:03 PM	**I wasn't sure if Gaia was a god or just a personfication of the Earth somehow, a primal force rather than a diety. I am afraid I wasn't familiar with Tartarus - I though that was a Greek name for the underworld - or Eros. The idea of a "primal force" and a "god" aren't clearly divided, especially when you're talking about the primordial entities who exist at creation. Gaea both literally is the earth on which we tread and is a feminine humanoid figure capable of mating and giving birth. Just as Tartarus is both a literal place -- the Abyss -- and is personified as Gaia's sibling. (I'm using the names from Hesiod's Theogony, which is the most complete creation myth we have for Greek mythology. Others will, for example, have Gaia be the child of Tartarus and his sister Nyx, the personification of night and darkness.) *Right, I knew of the Hermes-thief connection, but to me that was more of a rascally side of him, not a destructive side. I was looking for destroyer gods, counterpoints to creator/renewal gods. A pure anti-creator god would be more like one of the monsters from Greek mythology, like the eternal enemy of the gods Typhon, father of all monsters -- who's basically the equivalent of the Egyptian Apep in that sense. ***Right, not surprising really, given how many centuries Egyptian civlization lasted. I had always thought of Ptah as the creator there, Ra as merely that pantheon's Zeus, its "current" chief. But Ptah's role as creator is somewhat distant and mysteroius. Ptah is more like a pre-creator -- he brings the world into existence as a primal mound or cosmic egg from which Ra emerges, and Ra then has sex with himself (or masturbates onto the earth) and gives birth to all the other gods and all other life. ***Or Apophis, yes. Interesting to note that btw researchers don't know what Set is. Many think he is a jackal but actually isn't if you look closely at his depictions (Anubis is a jackal-headed god). Some think he is an aardvark, others some imaginary beast or something now extinct. He got himself linked to destructive animals like serpents and crocodiles mainly in his New Kingdom incarnation as the murderer of Osiris. **I seem to remember reading that but I wasn't sure if he acted alone and then also who created Odin. Odin is said to be the son of two of the primordial Giants, Bestla and Borr -- Borr himself is the son of Buri, who is either said to be one of Ymir's race of Giants or (technically) the first of the gods or Aesir, even though his grandson Odin is usually actually referred to as the firstborn god. In that version of the legend, Buri, like Ymir, forms in the void Ginnungagap between Muspellheim (primal fire) and Niflheim (primal ice) and, like Ymir, is licked out of the ice by the great cow Audumbla. This part of the myth is really obscure, though, and D&DG gives it more weight than it really deserves -- for all practical purposes Odin first appears as the slayer of Ymir. He's usually depicted as doing this along with his two brothers, Vili and Ve, but what happens to Vili and Ve afterwards is also very obscure. Sometimes the three brothers are identified as three aspects of just one deity who's later simply seen as Odin the All-Father. Sometimes Vili and Ve are said to change gender aspects and become the parents of the Vanir. Sometimes Odin kills Vili and Ve, or something -- one older account has Vili (I think) become the Aesir Hoenir, who's somewhat looked down upon and despised, and gets sent to the Vanir as a trick when they do their cultural-exchange thing after their war. (I would guess that Hoenir's brother Mimir would be the other brother, but I'm not sure. In any case both of them come to bad ends, though Mimir's place as the source of all knowledge would fit with him being Odin's sibling.) In any case, you mostly hear about Vili and Ve in the context of Vili giving Ask and Embla (Adam and Eve) the gift of consciousness and Ve giving them the gift of reason and speech -- Odin gives them the gift of life itself. **Seems like in the tales I have read every time they need some super weapon like Mjilonor or something to bind Garm or the like, they have to go to the dwarves but otherwise they don't figure in the legends much otherwise. By some accounts the Norse invented the drow. Planescape has the third layer of Ysgard populated by dark elves (not drow) which are much more in line with what you describe above. "Drow" was just a word derived from "duergar" and meant the same thing, and both words are related to the word "dwarf". It's by happenstance that all three have come to mean very different things in D&D. (Basically they needed an old-fashioned word for "dwarf" to mean "deep dwarf". And then they wanted "dark elves" who were "dark" in the sense of being just like the light elves but evil, rather than the take on "dark elves" that became Tolkien dwarves, so they borrowed the word "drow" for yet another purpose.) ***Loki though had a lot of good qualities and wasn't all evil in the stories I read. He angered the other Asgardians a lot but he generally wasn't out to destroy them, though if memory serves his children were quite destructive. The children are foreshadowing of his innate destructive nature. If you're using the Eddas as a source, then in the "present time", the age of innocence has already passed, Balder has been slain, and Loki has fallen into irredeemable evil and been imprisoned deep beneath the earth -- which is the reason the current age is an age of such struggle and suffering compared to the brighter heroic ages of the past.
ArcTan 05-02-07, 04:18 PM	He's technically a "Norse" deity, but much more associated with the people who settled and conquered Britain than the folks who would end up writing the Eddas in Scandinavia many years later. He lives in the same pantheon as Woden, Thunor and Tiw, who are sort of like Odin, Thor and Tyr in the way that Jupiter, Mars and Venus are like Zeus, Ares and Aphrodite, but with important differences. For instance, Wayland shows up at a time period when the ruler of the pantheon was Tiw (Tyr), god of courage and strength, and Woden (Odin) was a lesser deity of trickery and guile like Hermes. Odin becoming the chief god in the Eddas signifies a sort of cultural shift toward thinking and politics over raw bravery (as we can see by the myths that increasingly make Thor into a buffoon). [quote]***I didn't know that. I know that some of the myths that schoolkids read and even found in fantasy sourcebooks is cleaned up a good bit. Egyptian mythology had lots of vivid descritpions of sexaul conduct for instance and many Precolumbian religous statues were decidely not PG. Oh yeah. ***I didn't know Set wasn't always evil until I read this thread today. And I thought I knew a fair amount about him too! Yeah -- Egyptian mythology actually covers such a huge span of history that a lot of things shift in huge ways over time, and coming up with just one story that represents it all is hard. Have you seen Tome of Magic with its vestiges? The vestige named "Amun" is a direct reference to Egyptian mythology -- there used to be a god named "Amon", associated with the symbol of a ram's head, who steadily grew in importance over time until eventually he was identified as an aspect of Ra, which is why you sometimes hear the term Amon-Ra. The New Kingdom Pharoah Tutankhamon (King Tut) takes that part of his name from Amon. ...And not that long after his death, all of a sudden Amon starts fading very, very rapidly from prominence, until his name is barely mentioned at all a few generations later -- Osiris becomes a really popular god who displaces him, and Horus, as Osiris' son, becomes the far more popular aspect of Ra, and Re-Horakhty becomes invoked instead of Amon-Ra. All this is why it's a really cute reference for those of us into myths and legends to have a vestige in ToM who appears as a ram's head, has some vestigial connection with being a sun god, and is extremely, extremely bitter at all gods who are still worshipped. ***I thought the Hyskos were a martime people, would they have had Set as their deity? We don't know that much about who the Hyksos really were, because after they were beaten the Egyptians went to a lot of trouble to erasing all the records of their rulership over Egypt. There's a bunch of crazy speculation going around, including speculation that the Hyksos were the Biblical Hebrews, and that the Book of Exodus is the story of the Hyksos "invasion" from their side of the fence. In any case, they didn't have Set as a native deity -- it seems like they sort of chose him to stand in for their own native deity because he was a war-god and hero. ***Team Evil as you put was augmented as well by Aesir children like the Midgard Serpent and Hel. Yeah, although since Loki was originally a Giant, Jormungandr and Hel are both technically of the Giant race (their mothers were both Giantesses, IIRC). Loki's children Fenrir, Jormungandr and Hel are all great examples of nasty destroyer-deities on their own, by the way -- and each with a different character (Fenrir the unstoppable hunger that destroys the world at the end of time, Jormungandr the untamed wildness that destroys everything that ventures too far from the safety of land, Hel the lurking, ever-constant destruction that lies in decay, old age and death).
Mazaron 05-02-07, 09:52 PM	Gaea both literally is the earth on which we tread and is a feminine humanoid figure capable of mating and giving birth. Just as Tartarus is both a literal place -- the Abyss -- and is personified as Gaia's sibling. (I'm using the names from Hesiod's Theogony, which is the most complete creation myth we have for Greek mythology. Others will, for example, have Gaia be the child of Tartarus and his sister Nyx, the personification of night and darkness.) ***Interesting. A lot of the very early days in various mythologies seem like that, that definitions aren't so rigid. But Ptah's role as creator is somewhat distant and mysteroius. Ptah is more like a pre-creator -- he brings the world into existence as a primal mound or cosmic egg from which Ra emerges, and Ra then has sex with himself (or masturbates onto the earth) and gives birth to all the other gods and all other life. **I remember that masturbation thing btw, that shocked me one day reading it. What an odd beginning for a culture's mythos. Odin is said to be the son of two of the primordial Giants, Bestla and Borr -- Borr himself is the son of Buri, who is either said to be one of Ymir's race of Giants or (technically) the first of the gods or Aesir, even though his grandson Odin is usually actually referred to as the firstborn god. In that version of the legend, Buri, like Ymir, forms in the void Ginnungagap between Muspellheim (primal fire) and Niflheim (primal ice) and, like Ymir, is licked out of the ice by the great cow Audumbla. This part of the myth is really obscure, though, and D&DG gives it more weight than it really deserves -- for all practical purposes Odin first appears as the slayer of Ymir. He's usually depicted as doing this along with his two brothers, Vili and Ve, but what happens to Vili and Ve afterwards is also very obscure. Sometimes the three brothers are identified as three aspects of just one deity who's later simply seen as Odin the All-Father. Sometimes Vili and Ve are said to change gender aspects and become the parents of the Vanir. Sometimes Odin kills Vili and Ve, or something -- one older account has Vili (I think) become the Aesir Hoenir, who's somewhat looked down upon and despised, and gets sent to the Vanir as a trick when they do their cultural-exchange thing after their war. (I would guess that Hoenir's brother Mimir would be the other brother, but I'm not sure. In any case both of them come to bad ends, though Mimir's place as the source of all knowledge would fit with him being Odin's sibling.) In any case, you mostly hear about Vili and Ve in the context of Vili giving Ask and Embla (Adam and Eve) the gift of consciousness and Ve giving them the gift of reason and speech -- Odin gives them the gift of life itself. *You sound quite the expert on Norse mythology. Is that what you use in your campaign? "Drow" was just a word derived from "duergar" and meant the same thing, and both words are related to the word "dwarf". It's by happenstance that all three have come to mean very different things in D&D. (Basically they needed an old-fashioned word for "dwarf" to mean "deep dwarf". And then they wanted "dark elves" who were "dark" in the sense of being just like the light elves but evil, rather than the take on "dark elves" that became Tolkien dwarves, so they borrowed the word "drow" for yet another purpose.) **The dark elves of Ysard are not evil elves, just mining/crafting gods who live underground, probably pretty close to what the Vikings thought of.
Mazaron 05-02-07, 09:57 PM	He's technically a "Norse" deity, but much more associated with the people who settled and conquered Britain than the folks who would end up writing the Eddas in Scandinavia many years later. He lives in the same pantheon as Woden, Thunor and Tiw, who are sort of like Odin, Thor and Tyr in the way that Jupiter, Mars and Venus are like Zeus, Ares and Aphrodite, but with important differences. For instance, Wayland shows up at a time period when the ruler of the pantheon was Tiw (Tyr), god of courage and strength, and Woden (Odin) was a lesser deity of trickery and guile like Hermes. Odin becoming the chief god in the Eddas signifies a sort of cultural shift toward thinking and politics over raw bravery (as we can see by the myths that increasingly make Thor into a buffoon). **Interesting. IIRC Dragon several years ago had a Dark Ages Britain pantheon and campaign setting info. I seem to recall Woden as being one of the gods listed. Yeah -- Egyptian mythology actually covers such a huge span of history that a lot of things shift in huge ways over time, and coming up with just one story that represents it all is hard. **Yes, Egyptian history covers what over 2000 years or something? It is remarkable. Heck the Romans covered something like a thousand years, much longer than that if you count the Byzantines which lasted until the 15th century. Makes the US of A's 200 plus years seem puny. Have you seen Tome of Magic with its vestiges? The vestige named "Amun" is a direct reference to Egyptian mythology -- there used to be a god named "Amon", associated with the symbol of a ram's head, who steadily grew in importance over time until eventually he was identified as an aspect of Ra, which is why you sometimes hear the term Amon-Ra. The New Kingdom Pharoah Tutankhamon (King Tut) takes that part of his name from Amon. ***I have not. I have heard of Amon, his name gave the discoverers of ammonites inspiration (fossilized sea shells, nautilus-like organisms whose shell is curved like a ram's horn). We don't know that much about who the Hyksos really were, because after they were beaten the Egyptians went to a lot of trouble to erasing all the records of their rulership over Egypt. There's a bunch of crazy speculation going around, including speculation that the Hyksos were the Biblical Hebrews, and that the Book of Exodus is the story of the Hyksos "invasion" from their side of the fence. **I have never heard that. Do you have any sources? Loki's children Fenrir, Jormungandr and Hel are all great examples of nasty destroyer-deities on their own, by the way -- and each with a different character (Fenrir the unstoppable hunger that destroys the world at the end of time, Jormungandr the untamed wildness that destroys everything that ventures too far from the safety of land, Hel the lurking, ever-constant destruction that lies in decay, old age and death). Hel also sent the armies of the dead from her realm to do battle in Ragnarok.
MrSpaceBear 05-03-07, 01:44 AM	Hi, Im back MARA: The demon in Buddhist mythology who tried to distract Buddha while he meditated in his search for enlightenment. Mara, is a master of illusion and a subtle enemy of all who wish to enter the nirvana of supreme consciousness. The character of Mara developed from Kama, the Hindu god of love, who is addressed, amon otherthings, as Depaka (the inflamer), Mayi (the deluder, and Mara (the destroyer). Mara recognized that Buddha's goodness threatened his dominion over evil. While Buddha sat in contemplation beneath a tree, Mara tried everything possible in order to disturb Buddha's concentration. He first sent his 3 beautiful daughters so seduce and dance for Buddha, next he sent hiddious demons with all manner of wepons to harrass him, next he hurrled a fire ball at Buddhas head. Buddha remained unmoved. Mara tryes to deny man enlightenment, and to trap souls in reencarnation. Mara does his best to beguile the senses. He hopes that all people will forget the true path to enlightenment.
MrSpaceBear 05-03-07, 02:11 AM	Hers a cool artsy goddess Brigit: Irish mythology, Brigit (or Brigid) was the daughter of Dagda, the father of the gods. She was the goddess of healing, fires, smiths, poetry, wisdom, and fertility. In the sixth century, her generosity was inherited by the Catholic St. Brigit. Above all, Brigit is a goddess of creativity, the protectress of culture and the essentials of civilized life. Her festival, a pastoral celebration, was one of the greatest in the Celtic world. Connected with ewes coming into milk, it remained her devotees of the continuity and renewal that was necessary for the maintenace of dailly life. In many Irish legends, Brigit seems to be an alternative for her mother, Dana, and it has been suggested that they were different aspects of the same mother goddess. St. Brigit (450-523) one of the three patron saints of Ireland, was probably originaly a preistess of the goddess Brigit, and indeed St. Brigits Day is the old festival of spring. The girls father was a chieftan who sold her to a druid along with her mother. When the druid converted to Christianity Brigit was freed and returned to her father and to maid work. Brigit gave to the poor so enthusiasticly that she almost broke her father. She eventualy founded a nunery at Kildere. The goddess Brigit was associated with the fires of purification (forge fires and herth fires). Supposedly she created the Celtic weave.
MrSpaceBear 05-03-07, 02:27 AM	Hanuman: Dextrous monkey god of Hindu and Buddhist mythology. In the Ramayana< and Indian epic, he is the amry general and chief adviser to Sugriva, the monkey king, who saves Rama. A trickster, Hanuman's most notable characteristic is his ability to chage shape at will. At one point a huge fish rose up to eat him as he tried to cross an ocean, he became so huge that the fish had to open its mouth very wide. Then he shrank to the size of an arow and shot through its head. Inari: The Japanese god of rice, sometimes referred to as the food god. A bearded old man who sits on a sack of rice flanked by to foxes, who are his messangers. Because rice crops are the basis of all prosperity. Inari is regarded as a generous god of plenty and wealth.
MrSpaceBear 05-03-07, 02:33 AM	Ok last one for tonight. Really evil destruction deity. Yikes!!! :devil: Lha-Mo: A terrifying demon in Tibetan and Buddhim. Derived from the destructive aspect of Devi, the mother goddess of the Hindu faith. Lha-mo is envisaged as a horrible woman wearing the flayed skins of human victims. She is surrounded by flames and rides a wicked mule, the saddle of which is made from the skin of her own son. moreover, Lha-mo delights in the tasste of humman flesh and blood, which she drinks out of human skulls. She is the bringer of disease and is worshiped 7 days out of the year. She is given offerings of a black goat whos blood is mixed into a cake in the form of a human skull.