Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RealSorceror 05-29-07, 01:45 PM	As the title suggests, I'd like to create some solid house-rules for the mysterious and vague Over-Deities. I'd like the shift in power to be the difference between non-epic and epic (or from epic to deity). So, I've created a few inherent abilities for ODs (although I might make them salient abilities): 1). The first is personal time travel. This would allow an OD to move forward or backward in time 100 years per divine rank (I might shorten future travel to 1 year per divine rank). The diety can appear anywhere it can percieve with its divine senses and remote sensing (although the location may now be drastically different from when the deity left). 2). Second is the ability to transport other creatures and objects through time 1 year per divine rank (a new OD would have the power to transport a creature or object 21 years into the past or future). Unwilling subjects would recieve a Will save to negate the effect (this would only affect non-deities since gods are outside of the time stream). Again, I may limit future travel to just 1 month or week per divine rank. The reason I would limit future travel is simply to avoid unessacery confusion. Time travel is already complicated, and there is little reason to further convolute the issue. However, I feel that time travel is just the thing to give that extra element of power that would set Over-deities apart from normal deities, while also adding a tangible reason for a PC deity to continue their divine progression past 20 ranks. 3). The OD can limit or halt the divine progression of non-Over-deities, meaning that it decides when mortal and normal dieties gain divine rank. The OD always knows when a being would gain divine rank, and can choose to allow or stop this from happening. Alternately, an OD would only have control over the creation of dieties and over-deities and cannot otherwise affect their divine rank. This is actually suggested in the Deities and Demigod handbook. Any suggestions on additional powers or salient abilities (or alterations to the above abilities) would be greatly appreciated. :)
Janusunaj 05-29-07, 09:58 PM	Alter Reality can be used at will with Meta Magic abilities that take up to as many spell slots as they have divine rank.
RealSorceror 05-30-07, 12:36 PM	I guess nobody here plays deities.....
Janusunaj 05-30-07, 01:31 PM	Hm. An SDA such as Monsterous Blood, from Deities and Demigod, which create loyal servants from your wounds, sounds fun.
RealSorceror 05-30-07, 04:15 PM	Hm. An SDA such as Monsterous Blood, from Deities and Demigod, which create loyal servants from your wounds, sounds fun. Now that would be fun, although I'd probably tailor it for normal deities. Over-deities don't bleed too often.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 05-30-07, 05:59 PM	Hello Mr. City-Sized god, this is the Dwarf who punted Dotrak.:D I think that there should be a progression for overdeities by now,maybe we can convince wizards to help us out. I'm sick of making overdeity baddies that are merely divine rank 21+, I want it to be like the difference between epic and a normal pc- just as you said. We could technically create one, but I want something with more restraint than we tend to use in our group. By the way, I cant wait to fight those half-tarrasque weretarrasques you were working on- the Dwarven god of strength has been bench-pressing your steam engines to get ready for them.:P
Zalakhiel 06-03-07, 04:50 PM	To give some info about Overgods: They have always existed, and always will. They are not merely "individuals" with 21+ DvR, they are the embodyment of reality`s aspects, such as Life, Death, Light, Darkness, Fate, Eternity... Unlike, let`s say, Nerull, who is the god of Death, he who delights in Death and spreading it for its own sake, an Overgod would be "Death" itself. Note that I said "itself", as Overgods are omnipotent and they are part of what has always been and always will. Thus, IMO they are genderless, faceless, ageless... Though they often choose a "physical form" in order to aid non-Overgods when speaking of them. Finally, oneself can NEVER achieve Overgod status; they simply... exist. That`s just it. Finally, here is a chart from Dicefreaks that might be helpful. Overgods and Divine Ranks: 21; Lesser-Pantheonic Overdeity (excercises control over around 15 deities or less) 22; World Overdeity (planet, other limited portion of a plane, or full responsibility for a demiplane) or Medium-Pantheonic Overdeity (around 40 deities or less) 23; Greater-Pantheonic Overdeity (around 100 deities or less) 24; Planar Overdeity (full responsibility for entire plane/crystal sphere) or Ultimate-Pantheonic Overdeity (full responsibility for all non-overdeities) 25; Multi-Planar Overdeity (full responsibility for multiple entire plane/crystal spheres) or Lesser-Fundamental Overdeity (aspect of matter or energy such as fire, positive energy or gravity) 26; Cosmic overdeity (full responsibility for an entire cosmos) or Medium-Fundamental Overdeity (aspect of emotion such as love or fear) 27; Greater-Fundamental Overdeity (alignment) 28; Ultimate-Fundamental Overdeity (aspect of reality such as magic, time/space, life/death, thought, matter, soul) 29; Force-Balancing Overdeity (responsible for keeping several forces checked against each other, such as love and hate, matter and energy and void, good and evil, law and chaos, creation and destruction) or Probability Overdeity (responsible for all possibilities and alternate realities) 30; Literal God (unlimited power in all regards to the cosmos, but the overdeity is not actually a part of the cosmos) or a Cosmic Embodiment (the entire cosmos and all contents are a portion of the overdeity itself, allowing unlimited control over the cosmos) My :twocents: plz.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-03-07, 05:13 PM	Finally, oneself can NEVER achieve Overgod status; they simply... exist. That`s just it. I loved your post, its refreshing to find someone who really seems to know what they are talking about. I'm slowly but surely starting to work my way through some of the Dicefreaks material. The only real problem is our campaign setting-people can achieve whatever they want. When it comes right down to it, I made the world we use. This was the world I grew up creating, its where I learned how to be a PC and a DM. I had one of the first characters to ascend to godhood. I knew what it meant to have DMs really try to limit my progress. When I started DMing, I wasn't going to be that way with my players. Even as badly as I freaked out when RealSorceror asked me if he could make a walking city god, I didn't want to hold back my PCs. If Overdeity rules are somewhere, anywhere, then someone in my game will probably achieve that level of power.
RealSorceror 06-04-07, 10:38 AM	Even as badly as I freaked out when RealSorceror asked me if he could make a walking city god, I didn't want to hold back my PCs. :P Awww, Dotrak isn't that scary. But anyways, I also like Zalakhiel's post, but I agree that in our setting people shouldn't have unreasonable limitations (just think of all the sweet characters we have running around as a result). Also, given some tailoring, what do you think of those time travel abilities as possible salient abilities? Time travel would be fricken' sweet, both for a diety and for the campaign ideas, but I wouldn't want just any deity having access to them (because we all know what Zith would do with time travel). I could see our Truenamer deity using those powers, especially with his interest in history and knowledge.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-04-07, 10:51 AM	QUOTE=RealSorceror; But anyways, I also like Zalakhiel's post, but I agree that in our setting people shouldn't have unreasonable limitations (just think of all the sweet characters we have running around as a result). Time travel would be fricken' sweet, both for a diety and for the campaign ideas, but I wouldn't want just any deity having access to them (because we all know what Zith would do with time travel). Yeah, characters like Lady Mitsuko, Dotrak, Bo, and Junior would have never seen the light of day if we agreed with such limitations. Don't get me wrong, they are still legal within the rules, but they are extremely well made. Zith never needs to mess with time travel, thankfully a deity's mortal existence is all but erased when they ascend to godhood. The last thing we need is Zith going back in time, and starting his evil empire 3000 years earlier.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-04-07, 10:54 AM	:P Awww, Dotrak isn't that scary. But anyways, I also like Zalakhiel's post, but I agree that in our setting people shouldn't have unreasonable limitations (just think of all the sweet characters we have running around as a result). Also, given some tailoring, what do you think of those time travel abilities as possible salient abilities? Time travel would be fricken' sweet, both for a diety and for the campaign ideas, but I wouldn't want just any deity having access to them (because we all know what Zith would do with time travel). I could see our Truenamer deity using those powers, especially with his interest in history and knowledge. Can't sleep, mechs will eat me.
Deamon 06-04-07, 04:12 PM	Immortals Handbook ascension will soon be coming out and that has (balanced with LA) rules for godhood up to Divine Rank 5,400 ( well actually that's just a limit from the default cosmology technically there is no limit, thought any higher and you would have to make some more divine abilities). The overgods in it are roughly equvilent to planes with the higest end ones being manifestations of phsical laws such as time, space and matter. Along with the Epic Bestiary I higly recommend it. Link. (http://www.immortalshandbook.com/)
RealSorceror 06-04-07, 04:15 PM	Immortals Handbook ascension will soon be coming out and that has (balanced with LA) rules for godhood up to Divine Rank 5,400. The overgods in it are roughly equvilent to planes with the higest end ones being manifestations of phsical laws such as time, space and matter. Along with the Epic Bestiary I higly recommend it. Link. (http://www.immortalshandbook.com/) I'm all for compatible and well-made d20 system rules. I'll definitely look into that. :)
Deamon 06-04-07, 05:05 PM	His bestiary has expanded size up to things that are the size of the universe (or bigger).
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-04-07, 07:32 PM	i think dotrak might be big enough as he is, he already crumples entire eco systems beneath his too slow feet. but yeah, the true namer that isent quite made but is all but set in stone would be a sweet diety of time travel. >.> you know, just so he can catch up on all the things angus keeps doing, thats a lot of writing you know. and its all in wierd hard to pronounce words and suff.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-04-07, 07:37 PM	Yeah, characters like Lady Mitsuko, Dotrak, Bo (1) , and Junior would have never seen the light of day if we agreed with such limitations. Don't get me wrong, they are still legal within the rules, but they are extremely well made. Zith never needs to mess with time travel, thankfully a deity's mortal existence is all but erased when they ascend to godhood. The last thing we need is Zith going back in time, and starting his evil empire 3000 years earlier (2) .[/QUOTE] 1st off, i think bo would still exist, he would just be old, and you know, onl half as cool...seeing as how he woulden be able to run a mile in one round any more. >.> 2nd off, no, no no no no no no noooooooooo, zith should never ever ever have time powers, that would just be nuts, cause one minute we are all happy people, and the next moment it would be like waking up in some communest country, with huge animated posters of zith and his new world order.
Janusunaj 06-05-07, 12:08 AM	SDA: Transfiguration(does that word make sense?):Mystical form, allows the deity to literally be any other deity (at lesser DvR) and accumulate the powers thereof.
RealSorceror 06-05-07, 09:01 AM	2nd off, no, no no no no no no noooooooooo, zith should never ever ever have time powers, that would just be nuts, cause one minute we are all happy people, and the next moment it would be like waking up in some communest country, with huge animated posters of zith and his new world order. Zith would be fascist, not communist. Silly. :rolleyes:
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-05-07, 10:59 AM	Immortals Handbook ascension will soon be coming out and that has (balanced with LA) rules for godhood up to Divine Rank 5,400 ( well actually that's just a limit from the default cosmology technically there is no limit, thought any higher and you would have to make some more divine abilities). The overgods in it are roughly equvilent to planes with the higest end ones being manifestations of phsical laws such as time, space and matter. Along with the Epic Bestiary I higly recommend it. Link. (http://www.immortalshandbook.com/) That sounds like what we are looking for. It might be a little rough for me to switch Angus over to a d20 character instead of a cannon D&D character, but wizards isn't exactly giving me much choice. Now I guess I'll just fit in with all the other d20 splat book characters in our group.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 11:26 AM	hey angus...angus, one of us, one of us! lol, join us angus, you know you want to. dont underestimate the power of the D20 side, it is more powerfull than you can imagine. stupid quotes.
Kain Darkwind 06-05-07, 11:36 AM	Hmm. Overgods First, double all divine bonuses from divine rank. If a DvR 10 god gains a +10 divine bonus, a DvR 21 god gains a +42 bonus. This includes rank checks, if you use those rules. Now, assume the following for mental ability scores. 26 - Pit fiend, low demigod 50 - high end of greater gods. Therefore, we should begin low overgods around mental scores of 50 and possibly go as high as 100. Strength and Dex scores should vary, but on a high end, scores over 60 can be expected for Medium sized overgods. I think a Con score of 50 or higher should be typical. HD....greater gods don't have over 70HD in DDg. Start your lower overgods at 75HD. Hit points. Add DvR to Con modifier to determine hit points. Damage reduction. I'd say begin with 50/high epic (high epic is my term for '+10 or greater weapon') and move up from there. Overgods should frequently have other qualifiers, like an alignment, damage type or material. Also, damage reduction x/-, where x is DvR. Fast healing. I'd say 5 x DvR, which means a minimum of 105. Regeneration. Tarrasque-like, only requiring epic spells and possibly divine intervention to keep dead. I'd say around half to 3/4 the amount of fast healing. Minimum of 50. Possibly allow a single major epic artifact to deal them normal damage. Immunities. I'd say off hand they should be immune to 4 any energy types and have resistance 100 to the other. (Others if you use alternate damage types like plasma, positive energy, disintegration, etc) Bonus SDAs. Well, demigods have 1, lesser gods have 2 (demigod + demigod), intermediate gods have 3 {demigod + lesser} and greater gods have 5 {lesser god + intermediate}. I'd say continuing the pattern gives us 8, so let's double that. 16 bonus SDAs, plus DvR. After this, all you need to do is make up some truly kick ass SDAs. Things like Pimp Smack Reality, which allows the non-magical duplication of magical effects up to say....an epic spell of Spellcraft DvR x 10. Or 20. Whatever. Supreme Alter Size, which allows a near infinite increase in size (Use Upper Krust's expanded size categories...you can become as big as a planet, or even the universe) Mega Divine Blast, deals 2x (DvR + Cha modifier) in d20 damage. Create Planet. Create Solar System. Set Rules of Magic and Reality. Strip Divinity. A basic overgod should really be Outsider HD only, no class levels. Instead of class levels, an SDA such as 'Fighter' or 'Scout' would give him all of the class features of that class, as if he had gestalted it with his HD. So a 75HD DvR 21 overgod with the 'Fighter' SDA would have d10 hit points and 38 bonus feats. If he had the 'Rogue' SDA, he's have a sneak attack of +38d6, trap sense +25, 13 bonus rogue epic feats and anything else a rogue gets, like uncanny dodge and evasion. 'Wizard' SDA gains 75th level wizard spellcasting and all the bonus feats. So on so forth. Same with PrCs. Now, that doesn't prevent a character who had HD from becoming an overgod...if you want, you can just change the character over to HD and apply the appropriate SDAs to give them the class features. Or don't, it doesn't really matter. That's just a few ideas. Really, with overdeities, like with major artifacts, the limit is only that imposed by the DM.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 11:42 AM	some of those things in that post should have never been said, aka the divine blast anything, as angus is a frequent user of said ability....x.x
RealSorceror 06-05-07, 11:58 AM	Thank you very much Mr. Darkwind. :plotting: :evillaugh
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-05-07, 12:09 PM	Hehehe...Muwahahahhaha. Mega Divine Blast, I like the sound of that:D
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 12:13 PM	Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooo.........oooo... ..ooOOOooo... the death of all things evil and non chaotic just happened, it was if a million voices rang out in terror and then where suddenly silenced.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-05-07, 12:23 PM	Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooo.........oooo... ..ooOOOooo... the death of all things evil and non chaotic just happened, it was if a million voices rang out in terror and then where suddenly silenced. Hey, Mitsuko and Junior aren't chaotic- but its safe to say if you aren't my family, by marriage or descent, then yeah, feel free to scream.:D
Sim_antix 06-05-07, 12:23 PM	:P Awww, Dotrak isn't that scary. But anyways, I also like Zalakhiel's post, but I agree that in our setting people shouldn't have unreasonable limitations (just think of all the sweet characters we have running around as a result). Also, given some tailoring, what do you think of those time travel abilities as possible salient abilities? Time travel would be fricken' sweet, both for a diety and for the campaign ideas, but I wouldn't want just any deity having access to them (because we all know what Zith would do with time travel). I could see our Truenamer deity using those powers, especially with his interest in history and knowledge. Not being able to play a God or an Over God is hardly an "unreasonable limitation" :rolleyes:
Kain Darkwind 06-05-07, 12:42 PM	Hehehe...Muwahahahhaha. Mega Divine Blast, I like the sound of that:D Well, it's really not that big of deal. Just a ray, requires a ranged touch attack and any epic monk with exceptional deflection+reflect arrows can bounce it back at you. Of course, Modify Divine Blast would allow you to have a deflected/reflected Divine Blast immediately explode in a 1000 foot per DvR radius, dealing all that damage to everyone who failed to make their Reflex saves (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha mod + DvR + DvR. {Minimum 109 for a 75HD, 50 Cha, DvR 21}) Then Mass Mega Divine Blast would just allow you to project this destructive force in a 10 mile per DvR cone. Or 100 mile per DvR Line. But that's sort of moot when Mass Life and Death as currently written allows you to snuff out a 16 mile radius of mortal life. An overgod version Supreme Life and Death would be measured in planets per DvR. Wipe out or restore life on 21 planets. Minor Omnipresence would allow you to exist in DvR number of places simultaneously. Before counting your avatars and aspects. Supreme Divine Shield might allow you to ignore 100 hp of damage per DvR. It also might cause those who strike it to take damage as if they'd suffered your Divine Blast. Or at a minimum, equal to the damage they caused your shield. See, Ao, who is in my mind, a low level representative of what overgods can be, wiped the entire Faerun pantheon's divine power away in a blink. It was pretty apparant that he could just kick greater gods around like little toy dolls. That level of power pretty much takes even the farthest advanced creatures in the Epic Level Handbook and makes them irrelevant. You'll need to take your game to a whole new level if you hand out overpower to PCs. I'd suggest you start with some of the CR 1000+ creatures in the Epic Beastiary by Upper Krust. Like the neutronium golem. I think it had a CR of 9000ish.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 06-05-07, 12:52 PM	I think it had a CR of 9000ish. It's oooooooover nine thousand!
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-05-07, 12:55 PM	Well, it's really not that big of deal. Just a ray, requires a ranged touch attack and any epic monk with exceptional deflection+reflect arrows can bounce it back at you. My Deity uses Mass Divine Blast like it's going out of style. He uses the cone ability- it really is the biggest loop-hole in the game. If he was using a ray, people could deflect it-but its a 2000 ft cone of divine energy. It also has an attack bonus, so it doesn't allow a reflex save- if your within the area, and it hits your touch ac, you take the damage. Besides, they say that Salient Divine Abilities always overide epic feats- the monk would try to deflect a Divine Blast ray and have his hand shot off. They have a Salient ability (Divine Monk)that allows you to deflect, which would work against Divine Blast provided they had deflect arrows.
RealSorceror 06-05-07, 12:55 PM	Not being able to play a God or an Over God is hardly an "unreasonable limitation" :rolleyes: I know, I was refering to specific characters in our campagns (Myself, Dwarven Fighter DR20, and TurnCloak Kobold are all from the same playgroup). We have several characters that would never, ever be allowed with many DMs (and half of those characters are mine...)
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 12:59 PM	this is true, my deity is a monk with the saline deital monk ability. i find the best tactic Vs. mass divine blast is never getting on the deities bad side. x.x
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 01:02 PM	I know, I was refering to specific characters in our campagns (Myself, Dwarven Fighter DR20, and TurnCloak Kobold are all from the same playgroup). We have several characters that would never, ever be allowed with many DMs (and half of those characters are mine...) lol, like we would ever play with other DMs, no offense to everyone, but its just not the same anymore, i have tried once to go back to an alternate DM, and i was so disapointed that i sped over to the Dwarfs house and had a quick game there. but he makes a fine point, our charectors would be considered too powerfull in one way or another, for we are the coalation of one trick ponies, and together we are a super power defined in its own right. :D
RealSorceror 06-05-07, 01:06 PM	lol, like we would ever play with other DMs, no offense to everyone, but its just not the same anymore, i have tried once to go back to an alternate DM, and i was so disapointed that i sped over to the Dwarfs house and had a quick game there. The only other DM I like besides Angus is The Law. And you (after-thought). But thats it. but he makes a fine point, our charectors would be considered too powerfull in one way or another, for we are the coalation of one trick ponies, and together we are a super power defined in its own right. :D Heck ya, its like playing the Super Freinds without gay costumes and with no moral obligation to use our powers for anything remotely constructive.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-05-07, 01:13 PM	Not being able to play a God or an Over God is hardly an "unreasonable limitation" :rolleyes: It is if you've rightfully earned it- through good tactics,wit, iron clad willpower, and old-fashioned roleplay. Not even a DM should be able to overide that.
Kain Darkwind 06-05-07, 01:15 PM	My Deity uses Mass Divine Blast like it's going out of style. He uses the cone ability- it really is the biggest loop-hole in the game. If he was using a ray, people could deflect it-but its a 2000 ft cone of divine energy. It also has an attack bonus, so it doesn't allow a reflex save- if your within the area, and it hits your touch ac, you take the damage. Besides, they say that Salient Divine Abilities always overide epic feats- the monk would try to deflect a Divine Blast ray and have his hand shot off. They have a Salient ability (Divine Monk)that allows you to deflect, which would work against Divine Blast provided they had deflect arrows. Well...the mass divine blast is supposed to have a Reflex save for half when it affects an area, or use an attack roll when it hits targets. They aren't going to bother to errata it though...I'm pretty sure 99% of games don't need clarification on Mass Divine Blast. As for 'they say' SDAs always override epic feats, I'm going to have to contest that I do not know who 'they are', nor where 'they' said that. However, there is nothing in the wording of either ability that suggests a divine blast won't be deflected by exceptional deflection. The SDA Divine Monk is really just a package of most of the Epic monk feats if you look at it closely. Most of the 'Divine [Class]' SDAs are.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-05-07, 01:19 PM	Heck ya, its like playing the Super Freinds without gay costumes and with no moral obligation to use our powers for anything remotely constructive. Hey, I was thinking of making "The Skin of my Enemies" a dress code, but then every one would look like me.:P Now, I have choices, will I wear Mammon or Ilsensine today.:D
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 01:39 PM	Hey, I was thinking of making "The Skin of my Enemies" a dress code, but then every one would look like me.:P Now, I have choices, will I wear Mammon or Ilsensine today.:D that reminds me angus, when can i get the tarasque martial artist uniform for bo? hmmmmmm?
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-05-07, 01:43 PM	Well...the mass divine blast is supposed to have a Reflex save for half when it affects an area, or use an attack roll when it hits targets. They aren't going to bother to errata it though...I'm pretty sure 99% of games don't need clarification on Mass Divine Blast. As for 'they say' SDAs always override epic feats, I'm going to have to contest that I do not know who 'they are', nor where 'they' said that. However, there is nothing in the wording of either ability that suggests a divine blast won't be deflected by exceptional deflection. Mass Divine Blast works just like a normal Divine Blast, it says so in Deities and Demigods- I checked the errata too. I tried to find where they SDAs always overide epic feats rule was, but I just lost interest. It might have been a house rule that they (the group of DMs I game with) decided to use. No creature in the game is immune to divine blast, even with that Defiant prestige class- so it makes sense that a mortal monk, outsider or not, would have his hand blown off. So when this situation came up for my character, the Dms ruled and we all ate monk kabobs. Just the fact that a room full of Dms agreed on anything is rule enough for me, we should've thrown a party just for that.:D
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 01:52 PM	Mass Divine Blast works just like a normal Divine Blast, it says so in Deities and Demigods- I checked the errata too. I tried to find where they SDAs always overide epic feats rule was, but I just lost interest. It might have been a house rule that they (the group of DMs I game with) decided to use. No creature in the game is immune to divine blast, even with that Defiant prestige class- so it makes sense that a mortal monk, outsider or not, would have his hand blown off. So when this situation came up for my character, the Dms ruled and we all ate monk kabobs. Just the fact that a room full of Dms agreed on anything is rule enough for me, we should've thrown a party just for that.:D no monks of the kobold or bo kind where harmed in the making of this house rule. divine blast should not be used without parental consent, overuse may cause cronic nastalgia, back pain, blindness, and a distict hate of all things mind flayer.
Kain Darkwind 06-05-07, 02:02 PM	Mass Divine Blast works just like a normal Divine Blast, it says so in Deities and Demigods- I checked the errata too. I'm aware of that, I mentioned that there would be NO eratta for it ever, yes? :) WotC doesn't care about god rules. However, common rules knowledge says that area attacks need no attack roll but typically allow a save. If you disagree with that, find me a spell (or anything else in a 3.5 source) that affects an area and uses an attack roll. I'm open to being wrong. I use 10 + DvR + Cha + 1/2 total HD for a typical god SDA save, including mass divine blast (area). With a 40HD DvR 6 deity and 30 Cha, that's DC 46, still higher than any save in the MM. Get a more serious deity, DvR 11 with 40 Cha, 50 HD and you've got yourself a DC 61. A greater god is going to have most creatures in the ELH fail its save. To me, it is better game mechanics than using WotC's obvious oversight to one's advantage. I tried to find where they SDAs always overide epic feats rule was, but I just lost interest. It might have been a house rule that they (the group of DMs I game with) decided to use. Yeah, I thought it might be that. Nothing wrong with the way it ruled out, I was just very surprised to see that there might be an 'official' ruling on the matter. Since, as mentioned above, WotC doesn't care enough to issue clarifications on these things.
Sim_antix 06-05-07, 02:21 PM	It is if you've rightfully earned it- through good tactics,wit, iron clad willpower, and old-fashioned roleplay. Not even a DM should be able to overide that. There is no amount of tatics, wit or anything else that earns you the "right" to play a God. Being a God is completely subject to the DMs discretion as to how Gods even work in his campaign. Maybe you have to have always been a God or maybe Gods don't even exist but there are literally hundreds of reasons that you shouldn't be allowed to play a God and almost none for why you should.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 02:35 PM	i can really only think of one or two reasons why you shouldnt play a god, and it lies along the path of you eventally run out of things to fight except other player deities. even low level deities are more than a match for the terasque and some of its not so famouse terasque off shoots. AKA terasque-were-terrasques excetra excetra. the other is that it takes me all day to make a single deity of any rank, even when they are utterly simplified, AKA Bo my deity of travel. but in a campaign setting like ours, where deities are more often than not just there for role play, and occaisionally a fight with the supper bad guy that our DM cooks up in that little corner of evil brain that he has, they are perfectly acceptable, and there is little reason to limit the players and there progression into deity hood. they just have to earn it.
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 02:41 PM	The only other DM I like besides Angus is The Law. And you (after-thought). But thats it. Heck ya, its like playing the Super Freinds without gay costumes and with no moral obligation to use our powers for anything remotely constructive. gee i apreciate being an after thought. :monk:
Zalakhiel 06-05-07, 04:00 PM	Hmmmm.... I see that it really is funny to play an Overgod, but... It is just too boring. You can simply crush all who stand against you BEFORE they stand against you, by doing whatever crosses your whimes; eradicating them with but a glance, throw them one of the planets with which your are juggling, creating a Black Hole to suck them in and then close it, e.t.c. ... Deities of up to 20 DvR is a perfect choice of near infinite possibilities, but I do believe that when someone asks to be an Overgod, he asks to be the DM - "technically". But that is just MHO. :/
RealSorceror 06-05-07, 04:18 PM	Hmmmm.... I see that it really is funny to play an Overgod, but... It is just too boring. You can simply crush all who stand against you BEFORE they stand against you, by doing whatever crosses your whimes; eradicating them with but a glance, throw them one of the planets with which your are juggling, creating a Black Hole to suck them in and then close it, e.t.c. ... Deities of up to 20 DvR is a perfect choice of near infinite possibilities, but I do believe that when someone asks to be an Overgod, he asks to be the DM - "technically". But that is just MHO. :/ In our games the top deity usually is the DM. And stop giving him ideas...
Zalakhiel 06-05-07, 04:28 PM	Oops, sorry. My bad. :P I hope I am not the reason your cosmos falls into dust... :hides:
TurnCloak_Kobold 06-05-07, 07:58 PM	we will all know who to blame if it does. XD i prefere Bo to remain ignorant of some of the "greater" abilities of deities, such as that seeing things before they happen whatnot. i just want to remain fastest deity and eventually get to the point of altimate greatness via the angus super build.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-06-07, 01:28 AM	There is no amount of tatics, wit or anything else that earns you the "right" to play a God. Being a God is completely subject to the DMs discretion as to how Gods even work in his campaign. Now, on some level I understand what you are trying to say, on another I think of DMs who have used "DM discresion" to hold characters back. Do you think its fair for 12th level characters to challenge the gods, win, and not be rewarded for it- I've seen it happen before.I've experienced it before. When wit is all you have, you should use it. I understand that this would not happen in most D&D games, most DMs wouldn't even think of putting their characters in that situation. My character is the unfortunate compilation of at least ten different campaigns, most of which I hope to forget. In the end, I couldn't put down this character openly abused by the gods- he was my first, favorite, and only character. The group we now play in was started specifically to get this poor character what he deserved, a chance to achieve all that he could. He won it in a battle with a monk demigod. Now when our other characters reach the appropriate level, around 60, we have a deital challenge in place for them. If they make it, great. If not, oh well. I think this is quite fair. After all, its an option that "DM discretion" never gave me.
Sim_antix 06-06-07, 01:36 AM	I am not saying that nobody should ever get to play a God, simply that its not an inherent right of the players to be allowed to be Gods.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-06-07, 01:45 AM	Yeah, I thought it might be that. Nothing wrong with the way it ruled out, I was just very surprised to see that there might be an 'official' ruling on the matter. Since, as mentioned above, WotC doesn't care enough to issue clarifications on these things. Like I said, I could be wrong. I went and asked my friend, the one who happened to be DMing the encounter with the epic monk, and he stills swears that its a cannon rule. I asked him to show me where he found it, but he couldn't tell me. He said he'll find it, but I wouldn't hold your breath:) Anyhoosen, I didn't want you to think I was getting snippy- it seems like this board has been getting arguementative as of late. We are just trying to get other people's opinions, not pick fights. We understand that our campaign setting is crazy and weird- thats part of its charm. I like to think of our world as the setting that every player character wishes he was born in. Thank all of you for helping us improve upon it.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-06-07, 02:23 AM	I am not saying that nobody should ever get to play a God, simply that its not an inherent right of the players to be allowed to be Gods. Its fine that you think that way, but I disagree. I know my players, and I know what they are capable of. They haven't destroyed my world, or any NPCs that I didn't want them to. I let them do, within the limits of my insignificant DM powers, what they want. This gives me the freedom to, likewise, do what I want. We all seem to have a pretty good time, which is really what its all about. When I have a player who seems unhappy, I really try to fix the problem. I can also safely say that since I started DMing in the way I do now, such occurances happen less and less. I've also noticed that my players don't have the overbearingly destructive urges that most player characters seem to have- whether this is because of their temperment or my DMing remains to be seen. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I respect my players in a way my past DMs didn't respect me. I refuse to say, "You can't do that because most DMs wouldn't let you." The things that they ask me to do help me to learn about the game and myself. Hopefully, we'll all come out as better gamers for it.:)
Sim_antix 06-06-07, 09:23 AM	Its not a case of "because most DMs wont let you" rather its because thats what game balance and continuity require.
RealSorceror 06-06-07, 10:40 AM	Its not a case of "because most DMs wont let you" rather its because thats what game balance and continuity require. Yes, we understand that players don't have a "right" to do certian things. However, those players are in other, normal games, with other, normal DMs. Our playgroup is (reasonably) responsible, intelligent, and creative. Our campaign world is a community effort, and we allow things that otherwise have no "right" to exist simply because its fun and it enriches the world. We don't do things all willy nilly. Everything has an explaination and history, from the DR 20 greator god to the lvl 1 commoner. This playstyle may not be "cannon", but that is quite irrelevant. D&D is more about having fun and less about rules-lawyering.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-06-07, 11:07 AM	Its not a case of "because most DMs wont let you" rather its because thats what game balance and continuity require. Well, its not like I'm letting everyone run around in the world at level ten as Greater Deities. Every character has to be at least level forty before the gods even consider letting them make the attempt to pass our deital challenge- most characters can try at level 60 if they want to. All of our "God Characters" range from level 60-70, and have divine rank from 1-20. Most of our adventures involve planehopping to other equally strange worlds, where our characters seem to fit in well. As far as game balance, I think that's determined by the DM-and I don't have many complaints so far. The only thing that stinks is that I have to hand craft things for everyone to fight, and it sounds like the Immortals Handbook may have just solved that problem for me as well. We aren't concerned with continuity, as far as greyhawk,eberron, and faerun; we have our own world, and our own continuity. Its not like I'm forcing my characters to play god characters either- we have some people in our group who think like you do. If they don't want to be a god, that's fine too.
Dwarven_Fighter_DR20 06-06-07, 12:13 PM	that reminds me angus, when can i get the tarasque martial artist uniform for bo? hmmmmmm? When I get a drawing of it, then we'll talk. I love it when my players give me backstories and art.:)